Good News: The Raft Man and I . . .

[Sand&Water]

Part 1: Metaphorical Raft: The Dangers of Losing Interest in Males.

Part 2: Metaphorical Raft Man: He Wants My Companionship.

 

Words can't explain the way Raft Man [male friend of mine] and I communicate. It is complex, yet unique and exilarating from thought to thought -the start of something new, perhaps.

 

I talked to the Raft Man yesterday and I noticed he couldn't make his words/thoughts clear to me.

 

He said: "Your homework is to analyze and interpret my insightful writings"

 

Even with those words, he has made his desires clear. I don't deny the idea, rather I completely understand his standpoint. He said it himself: "my mission is yours"

 

The chemistry is intense and great. He said to me he wants to explore this opportunity, to meet and make it just the two of us, take one step at a time and learn to discover things/traits about each other.

 

In the end, though, I said to him: "I need some time to think about a few things."

 

His response: "Hmmm okay...well the raft hasnt arrived yet" . . . which means he isn't in a hurry and I can take time to think about it.

 

I don't know IF I want to get involved. I am, subconsciously, playing it safe. I am scared -to open up to him!

 

I don't know what I want!

 

Did I do the right thing? and Do I tell the Raft Man there is someone else in the picture?

 

Sand&Water

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

What are the chances it will work out with someone who you know little about?

Do I take a risk? Or

Move on to better opportunities?

 

Some input would be much appreciated.

 

Thank you.

 

Sand&Water

[Adunaphel]

I talked to the Raft Man yesterday and I noticed he couldn't make his words/thoughts clear to me.

 

Hmmm

 

he couldn't or he wouldn't?

This is the interesting question.

 

He said: "Your homework is to analyze and interpret my insightful writings"

 

I have to ask you, are you quoting sentences from your conversations literally, word for word?

Did he phrase it this way exactly?

Is he a native speaker of english?

 

He sounds a tad full of himself...

I dare say more than a tad inflated.

 

Unless he is one of those guys who can blend a lot of humour and pleasant cheeckiness in their words.

 

Even with those words, he has made his desires clear. I don't deny the idea, rather I completely understand his standpoint. He said it himself: "my mission is yours"

 

The chemistry is intense and great. He said to me he wants to explore this opportunity, to meet and make it just the two of us, take one step at a time and learn to discover things/traits about each other.

 

Has anything physical already happened?

 

I hate to say this, but this guys sounds like a player from what you said in this post. Only, I could not exactly explain why. I will tell you as soon as I realize what it is.

 

I don't know IF I want to get involved. I am, subconsciously, playing it safe. I am scared -to open up to him!

 

I don't know what I want!

 

I would rather play it on the safe side, too.

 

Take your time. Try to understand better what kind of guy he really is.

Perhaps there is a treasure hidden in the raft - or perhaps it is just a place where you might get attacked by the sharks. Why take risks until you get to take a metaphorical peek at the raft you are supposed to be sailing on with this guy?

 

Did I do the right thing?

 

I'd say, yes.

 

Do I tell the Raft Man there is someone else in the picture?

 

No. Why should you?

 

Mr. Ambiguity deserves no unsolicited honesty.

If he asks you directly whether there is someone else in the picture, then the right thing would be to tell him.

But he has to at least make such a little step as asking you.

 

Why make things so easier for him?

He is not really opening up a lot - playing mystery guy.

Why be an open book for him?

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

Thank you so much for your reply, Adunaphel. Your post has presented me with considerable amount of clarification. It means a lot to me.

he couldn't or he wouldn't?

He wouldn't -at least that is the vibe I received. He said it was "too complicated" and "i'm [he] getting tangled in these metaphors". Weird!

 

He expects me to completely -or half heartedly attempt to decipher his words and the metaphors associated with his intent.

I have to ask you, are you quoting sentences from your conversations literally, word for word? Yes

Did he phrase it this way exactly? Yes

Is he a native speaker of english? Yes [i think so]

That's how the conversation panned out. It seems to me, like, he is enjoying the play on words, mystery, illusion, and vaste imagination of this raft metaphor. I admit, it is fun -but I want understand him with certainty. I want something concrete. Not mushy-mushy.

Unless he is one of those guys who can blend a lot of humour and pleasant cheeckiness in their words.

He is very sarcastic, and injects humour into the conversation to lighten up the mood. I would say, there is pleasant cheeckiness -but to an extent.

 

I don't think he is a player, in true nature. However he displays significant characteristics, that would suggest he is one.

Has anything physical already happened?

No. Nothing, yet. Perhaps he is just looking to score. It is hard to say this early -but I doubt it.

Take your time. Try to understand better what kind of guy he really is.

Perhaps there is a treasure hidden in the raft - or perhaps it is just a place where you might get attacked by the sharks. Why take risks until you get to take a metaphorical peek at the raft you are supposed to be sailing on with this guy?

Precisely. I am taking my time. I don't want to rush into anything, hence the "I need time to think" sentence I fed him last time.

 

He is okay with me taking as much time to think about what I want, because I then said "Unless there is schedule". He responded with "Schedule . . .Not that I know of ". So that, right there, supports my point.

He is not really opening up a lot - playing mystery guy.

I believe the fact that I am not opening up to him, has caused some frusturation on his side. Thus, I suppose, by imitating me and being mysterious himself -he can win in his own way.

 

I don't know why he is acting in this manner. IF I ask him to be straightforward he will definitely give me the line "It is your homework to analyze and decipher my words . . .blah blah blah."

 

Last but not least, the other day I wasn't having a good day/week and I told him but didn't go into detail. I felt like he wasn't compassionate or anything like that, all he said was "Cheer up though! . . . or at least attempt to."

 

On the other hand, it seems he cares because he asks about details of my stories and about my ex -whether or not he gave me a hard time and hence feeling hurt.

 

Should I just have coffee with him to get it over with and to hell with everything?

 

Sand&Water

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

I, just, realized I am putting so much energy into this Baloney situation. Not me at all. Why? Strange.

 

The man, doesn't message me -at or even past the one week mark.

 

Bump.

 

Wouldn't it better to have him as a friend.

 

Sand&Water

[alphamale]

Raft man sounds like an enigma wrapped in idiocy

[Adunaphel]

 

He wouldn't -at least that is the vibe I received. He said it was "too complicated" and "i'm [he] getting tangled in these metaphors". Weird!

 

He expects me to completely -or half heartedly attempt to decipher his words and the metaphors associated with his intent.

 

Sand & Water, no offence meant, but this guy is reminding me more and more of a quote from one of my favourite authors.

 

"But sometimes Belbo, when he became really angry, lost his composure. Since loss of composure was the one thing he could not tolerate in others, his own was wholly internal - and regional. He would purse his lips, raise his eyes, then look down, tilt his head to the left, and say in a soft voice: "Ma gavte la nata." For anyone who didn't know that Piedmontese expression, he would occasionally explain: "Ma gavte la nata. Take out the cork." You say it to one who is full of himself, the idea being that what causes him to swell and strut is the pressure of a cork stuck in his behind. Remove it, and phsssssh, he returns to the human condition. "

 

The metaphorical raft man sounds like someone who had better remove a metaphorical cork.

The "you have to figure me out" game can be nice if it does not last for long, but it becomes annoying after a while.

 

So he thinks you are too complicated???

What a nerve. :laugh:

 

Again.... unless he *really* has a sense of humour, he can laugh at himself and yopu can perceive it when you are talking with him.

 

You know him better than anyone on here.... and there are actually guys who are really pleasant, witty and funny but would sound like certified asses if you reported conversations with them, because it's their expressions/attitude that make the difference and give a different meaning to their words.

 

That's how the conversation panned out. It seems to me, like, he is enjoying the play on words, mystery, illusion, and vaste imagination of this raft metaphor. I admit, it is fun -but I want understand him with certainty. I want something concrete. Not mushy-mushy.

 

By all means let him know.

 

I hope it won't be a too difficult task to get some concrete talk out of him.

 

Guys like this make me feel the need to get a reaction out of them - make them lose their aplomb, just for the sake of it.

I'd feel tempted to tell him something like "enough is enough, cut the crap and show me your dick!" just to see his reaction.

 

He is very sarcastic, and injects humour into the conversation to lighten up the mood. I would say, there is pleasant cheeckiness -but to an extent.

 

I have to agree. sarcasm, humour and cheeckiness are nice, but they do not compensate the incapability of being clear!!!!

 

I don't think he is a player, in true nature. However he displays significant characteristics, that would suggest he is one.

 

I just hope he is not like the guy I recently cut no contact with...

 

No. Nothing, yet. Perhaps he is just looking to score. It is hard to say this early -but I doubt it.

 

Do you happen to have a reputation for being a hard-to-get girl?

if so, he might be trying to score - not necessarily to have sex with you, just to seduce you/catch your attention/get you interested in him.

 

I guess the possibilities are:

 

- he is shy, insecure, and he wants to be sure you like him before he opens up. (btw what kind of guys is he usually??? I mean, with other people)

 

- he is a "nothin'but a lot of talk and a badge" committment-phobe who is testing his flirting skills but has not enough spine to actually purse you let alone enter in a relationship with you or with anyone else.

 

- he is a player.

 

Precisely. I am taking my time. I don't want to rush into anything, hence the "I need time to think" sentence I fed him last time.

 

again, well done!

 

He is okay with me taking as much time to think about what I want, because I then said "Unless there is schedule". He responded with "Schedule . . .Not that I know of ". So that, right there, supports my point.

 

Hmmm....

it might be just me, but he does not sound like he is *so*interested.

 

But then, again, he might be - what else can you reply when someone you like tells you that she needs time???

Have you been talking ever since?

 

I believe the fact that I am not opening up to him, has caused some frusturation on his side. Thus, I suppose, by imitating me and being mysterious himself -he can win in his own way.

 

Was he less mysyterious in the beginning?

 

I don't know why he is acting in this manner. IF I ask him to be straightforward he will definitely give me the line "It is your homework to analyze and decipher my words . . .blah blah blah."

 

Huge red flag.

Guys who refuse to be clear are no relationship material.

can you imagine being in a relationship with someone who acts like this all the time?

He *could* be shy. But trust me, if he was just very interested, very shy BUT a grownup he would be not straightforward, but it would be in a *very* different way.

 

Last but not least, the other day I wasn't having a good day/week and I told him but didn't go into detail. I felt like he wasn't compassionate or anything like that, all he said was "Cheer up though! . . . or at least attempt to."

 

hmmm

some guys have difficulties givin verbal support. no big secret.

 

On the other hand, it seems he cares because he asks about details of my stories and about my ex -whether or not he gave me a hard time and hence feeling hurt.

 

I hate to say this, but I get a weird feeling.

Like he is just playing with your head, or analyzing your mind -trying to find out what kind of woman you are.

Like he is toying with your emotions.

 

Hey, I hope I am wrong.

 

Is he the one asking about your ex?

Does he tell you about his past stories too?

 

Should I just have coffee with him to get it over with and to hell with everything?

 

Yes, absolutely!!!!

It sounds like a very good idea to me.

[HeadlessZebra]

Raft man sounds like an enigma wrapped in idiocy

 

Agreed. In my humble expert opinion, he couldn't make himself clear to you because he feels the need to match your somewhat... bombastic, abstract to the point of nonsensicality... style of speech in order to impress you, but it might not come naturally to him so he might be stumped digging around for things to say that would sound deep and flowery enough. He makes himself sound like a fool trying.

 

He's just following your lead in everything he does, it's pretty obvious to me. He doesn't seem full of himself to me; rather, more like he's trying to imitate what he sees in you, trying to impress you.

 

He sets off my poser alarm pretty strongly. I hope you don't discover he's an expert scam-artist playboy or something.

 

If anything I said offended you, please don't be mad. I'm not known for my tact. Anything that comes out of this foolish mouth is to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

He said it was "too complicated" and "i'm [he] getting tangled in these metaphors". Weird!

 

He expects me to completely -or half heartedly attempt to decipher his words and the metaphors associated with his intent.

 

That's how the conversation panned out. It seems to me, like, he is enjoying the play on words, mystery, illusion, and vaste imagination of this raft metaphor. I admit, it is fun -but I want understand him with certainty. I want something concrete. Not mushy-mushy.

 

See? It's not that the metaphors were too complicated, it's that they really didn't mean anything when he said them! He was just trying vainly to sound poetic and mysterious, when in reality he had no idea what he was talking about.

 

He doesn't expect you to decipher his words - he expects you to eat them up and believe that there's some deep significance behind them. Maybe even to inject your own meaning into them, kind of like how we can make out shapes in clouds that are just... clouds.

[Sand&Water]

Thank you everyone for your feedback, I greatly appreciate it: Adunaphel, Alphamale, and Headless Zebra!

 

I will have to make a final decision in the coming days:

 

(A) Give him a chance to get to know me and explore each other, with complete honesty, respect and straightforwardness based on my interest level.

OR

(B) Place him in the friends' zone -with mutual acceptance.

 

It has been 4 days of No Contact -i.e. just me thinking. When [next week?] should I tell him my final decision?

 

Since he is ~not~ in a hurry to proceed and dive into a relationship then it is safe to wait it out.Of course, I'm ~not~ going to wait for too long. I want to know ~now~ his intentions.

 

In order for me to do that, I will have to take this situation into my own hands -and express that he and I should become familiar with each other -emphasis on trust -since it is dearly lacking.

 

From the very start, I had a feeling/hint, as to why he was acting in this manner. Here is my explanation:

Adunaphel, your words sustain and support his external persona.

"Ma gavte la nata. Take out the cork." You say it to one who is full of himself, the idea being that what causes him to swell and strut is the pressure of a cork stuck in his behind. Remove it, and phsssssh, he returns to the human condition."

Partly true [i can't guarantee complete agreeness]. He said it himself in a past conversation: "I don't like women who walk all over me" [paraphrased].

. . . just to seduce you/catch your attention/get you interested in him.

Yes. I agree.

 

He wants to satisfy my imagination. In a past conversation, I told him to come with me and imagine -dream and use internal visions to construct happy/interesting/wonderful thoughts- with me.

 

He knows I have an imagination unlike his. He said his imagination is not as vibrant as mine, and that his usually work in night dreams . . . other than that, he just uses his sarcastic nature and charm to get his points across.

Like he is just playing with your head, or analyzing your mind -trying to find out what kind of woman you are. Like he is toying with your emotions.

He is using the Metaphorical Raft to fulfill my expectations, and desires. He knows he can't do so in any other way. The Raft idea is something he and I can visualize together -a dream to connect something deep within us.

 

I remember at the beginning I asked why he wasn't being nice to me and he said: "Nice is boring. my very sarcastic tone keeps things interesting" [paraphrased].

 

Strong point from him. He knows women are disinterested in ~Nice~ men. So his trying is better than nothing. Impressing me in this form, is a different way to explore someone else given the circumstances.

 

Plus, he had asked me out to get together at the start of all this, but I turned him down. So this is attempt number 2. He is being very patient with me -because IF it were someone else they would've left long ago.

He's just following your lead in everything he does, it's pretty obvious to me. Rather, more like he's trying to imitate what he sees in you, trying to impress you.

Point on -more or less. He knows I am interesting, he said it to my face. As a result, impressing me in his own creative way is kind of like showing me his artistic side.

 

Now that you mention this, I was discussing with him the traits I look for in a man and I said: "Something different than normal". Then he said: "No wonder you're single".

 

Absolutely raises my eyebrows. I see the connection. He wants to be that "Something Different" but has a hard time putting it in motion.

 

Wow, what a journey!

 

I have put so much energy into this situation that I am jinxing it. I just don't want a doormat.

 

Sand&Water

[Gala]

Sand&Water -

 

I see quite a few big red flags here. At the very least, this guy uses his intellect to protect himself - and routes his emotions through it in a way that could make dealing with him very difficult. I say this as a trained academic who has spent a lot of time with people who live in their heads and have a hard coming out of them even when they have to.

 

Sarcasm-as-crutch is another behavior to be aware of.

 

Also - any man who assigns you his writings as "homework" very likely has a bit of a Svengali thing going on. If that's what you're into that's fine, but it could end up getting tiresome...and need I start about the power dynamic it sets up?

 

Aduphenal - I love your quote about taking out the cork! Priceless!

[HeadlessZebra]

Also - any man who assigns you his writings as "homework" very likely has a bit of a Svengali thing going on.

 

Narcissist whose truly poor self-esteem and unstable self-image are way too close to the surface?

 

Thank you, that was my sweeping amateur diagnosis of the day.

[Adunaphel]

 

(A) Give him a chance to get to know me and explore each other, with complete honesty, respect and straightforwardness based on my interest level.

OR

(B) Place him in the friends' zone -with mutual acceptance.

 

I suggest (A).

 

If he does not seize that chance, I'd kick him out of the friends zone, too.

Who wants a friend who can't be straightforward even when the situation does require it?

 

It has been 4 days of No Contact -i.e. just me thinking. When [next week?] should I tell him my final decision?

 

Either next time you hear from each other, or just do not tell him anything and see whether he realizes himself that it's time to start playing adult and opening up.

 

Since he is ~not~ in a hurry to proceed and dive into a relationship then it is safe to wait it out.Of course, I'm ~not~ going to wait for too long. I want to know ~now~ his intentions.

 

Call him. Is either of you doing all the contact, by chance?

 

In order for me to do that, I will have to take this situation into my own hands -and express that he and I should become familiar with each other -emphasis on trust -since it is dearly lacking.

 

Just do not get out of your way to explain him. If he wants to get it, he'll get it. If he plays dumb, consider it a rejection of your offer.

 

He knows I have an imagination unlike his. He said his imagination is not as vibrant as mine, and that his usually work in night dreams . . . other than that, he just uses his sarcastic nature and charm to get his points across.

 

Oh, yeah. Sure. They work very effectively in getting his points across.

 

He is using the Metaphorical Raft to fulfill my expectations, and desires. He knows he can't do so in any other way. The Raft idea is something he and I can visualize together -a dream to connect something deep within us.

 

It is a lovely metaphor, but it is getting stale. If he kept coming up with new ones, and getting across a "I am interested in you" message, it would be very swett. But he isn't.

 

I remember at the beginning I asked why he wasn't being nice to me and he said: "Nice is boring. my very sarcastic tone keeps things interesting" [paraphrased].

 

Please tell me he was being self ironical. Please.

 

Strong point from him. He knows women are disinterested in ~Nice~ men. So his trying is better than nothing. Impressing me in this form, is a different way to explore someone else given the circumstances.

 

Careful here. he didn't *say* this, did he?

He let you figure it out/guess from his words. But he hasn't really said *anything* of that sort, right? Just *suggested* it.

 

I call this "vaseline talk". Smooth, slippery, and aimed at screwing you up.

Pardon my french.

 

Plus, he had asked me out to get together at the start of all this, but I turned him down. So this is attempt number 2. He is being very patient with me -because IF it were someone else they would've left long ago.

 

Wait. This changes the whole perspective.

If he opened up the first time, forget whatever else I have written in my post.

 

By all means be straightforward, see him in person and have a honest talk. :)

 

I would find HeadlessZebra's and Gala's diagnosis right on spot if he hadn't been rejected already. Given the circumstances, he could be just defensive.

 

I just don't want a doormat.

 

You expecially don't want a doormat that will slip out from under your feet and make you fall hard and get hurt.

 

Keep us updated!

 

Sand&Water -

Aduphenal - I love your quote about taking out the cork! Priceless!

 

Thanks.

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

Alright. Gala, Headless Zebra and Adunaphel.

Also - any man who assigns you his writings as "homework" very likely has a bit of a Svengali thing going on. If that's what you're into that's fine, but it could end up getting tiresome...and need I start about the power dynamic it sets up?

I know all too well. I know.

 

At the very start, I noticed he had a bit of Svengali thing going on. But, I took cover and overlooked the trait/vibe.

 

As for the power dynamic: It is very evident. I can feel the friction.

During conversations, he uses phrases as: "you won't win this time", and "I'll let you win, though". Several "wining" tensions, and things to get his way. But, he can compromise -so that's a relief.

 

I am not doing so well. The situation with him isn't going to get better before it gets worse.

 

Refer to my next post, for the latest news!

 

Sand&Water

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

I have finally made up my mind. I know what I need to tell him, straight up ~No~ merry-go-round.

 

I have thought about everything you said, Adunaphel as well as Gala and Headless Zebra.

 

However, keeping in mind that I am still iffy about him, I am scared of the outcome. I don't want him to misunderstand my intentions because lately he and I ~haven't~ been on the same wavelength.

 

Here is what I have received thus far:

Call him. Is either of you doing all the contact, by chance?

It is 50/50 communication. Sometimes I initiate, and other times he initiates.

 

He contacted me, this time. It has been 1 week since I talked to him. Anyways, he and I talked . . . and well I didn't say anything about the whole "starting something together" idea.

 

He didn't bring it up in the discussion -and I didn't either, since I felt it wasn't the 'right' time to do so.

 

I am convincingly going to tell him tomorrow -or the next, we'll see.

 

To my surprise, though, when I was talking to him ~ I saw something I have never seen before in him . . . and I. I felt he was slipping in my hands. The urge of chemistry, and compatibility was all washed away in the river.

 

He and I weren't on the same plate - no clicking sensation.

 

So, I said: "It seems you're really serious, tired, and confused".

 

Then he said: "All of the above".

 

It sucks. Really sucks. I know he's probably stressed out and tired -I am too. But, at this rate . . . there will be no fire to keep the passion going.

Given the circumstances, he could be just defensive.

I'm leaning towards this side. Who knows what happened to him. It seems to me, he's still not quite over his ex.

 

But who am I to judge. I, certainly, am not judging.

 

Writing my thoughts here is just general talk to me. I'm writing descriptions of his personality so that I can determine where ~ I stand ~ in this situation. Figuring things out, so that it won't cost me heartache.

 

I hope it won't end, before it starts.

 

Regards,

Sand&Water