Trialbyfire Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 Ha... so that's what happened. I rarely use fabric softener. Perhaps that's why I was too rough on him. Puddle, in my situation, it wasn't about fear. It was rage in it's purest form. I felt degraded especially when I found out the differences between the OW and myself. In a nutshell, she was morally trailer trash, not very attractive, not very intelligent and not his normal type...period. I'm not saying that I'm this amazing woman in all aspects but on a comparative basis, there was no comparison. As I've stated before, after he dumped her hard and fast, she still continued to pursue with absolutely no remorse. I guess she deserves some credit for being a persistent predator which is why she even got to him in the first place. She portrayed herself as a good friend, stroking his ego constantly, he let her get closer, she took advantage. It doesn't mean that he has no responsibility in this situation, far from it, as he found out very quickly and harshly...
pureinheart Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 Ha... so that's what happened. I rarely use fabric softener. Perhaps that's why I was too rough on him. Puddle, in my situation, it wasn't about fear. It was rage in it's purest form. I felt degraded especially when I found out the differences between the OW and myself. In a nutshell, she was morally trailer trash, not very attractive, not very intelligent and not his normal type...period. I'm not saying that I'm this amazing woman in all aspects but on a comparative basis, there was no comparison. As I've stated before, after he dumped her hard and fast, she still continued to pursue with absolutely no remorse. I guess she deserves some credit for being a persistent predator which is why she even got to him in the first place. She portrayed herself as a good friend, stroking his ego constantly, he let her get closer, she took advantage. It doesn't mean that he has no responsibility in this situation, far from it, as he found out very quickly and harshly... Well put Puddle and Trialbyfire! I simply bleached all of them..... In one marriage I was dumped so to speak for the OW (this was a shock because I always did the "leaving", how dare he!) Feeling rejected, I drew this picture in my mind of their situation. I imagined this senerio of their perfect situation, and her being this perfect women in all ways. I had to go to their house for some reason a couple months later, having never seen her before, and was shocked....she had little class, did not take care of herself and basically looked like a guy with long hair. Two years later I testified for him to the fact that he was not physically abusive with me....she had beat him up and called the cops and said he beat her up.... When he left I was financially in ruin, had been laid off from my normal job for quite some time, and was working as a cashier for minimum wage....he wiped out the little money that was in the joint account.... Totally at my end, I called a good friend who on many occasions counceled me....she freaked out saying, "your old job has been looking for you" (I had changed my phone # when he left). So....got my normal job back....my inheritance came through, and many other wonderful things....his loss
GirlFromOz Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 Being fairly new here, I was shocked & disgusted at the level to which some people (& one person in particular) stooped in the early parts of this thread, and I wasn't going to take part in it, however, I felt fairly strongly about many of the posts, so I changed my mind. Here goes... Quote: Originally Posted by peacelove You've got it wrong. We've been living together for 6 years now. His stbxw has a boyfriend now. MY MAN doesn't go to her for anything. Originlly Posted by noforgiveness then why do you consider yourself an OW? Why is she not an EX after SIX years? Quote: Originally Posted by peacelove Water It Or It Will Die!! Water It Before Hubby Goes Elsewhere. Peacelove, a lot has already been said about this post & I won't repeat it, but I did think it was telling that instead of answering nf's very reasonable question (& one that I'm sure many of us wanted to ask), you chose to post this instead. Could it be that you don't want to face the answer? Quote: Originally Posted by lasan If one doesn't take care of their marriage, it is going to crumble. People forget about it, put it on the backburner for kids, and career. They just shouldn't be surprised when they look up one day, and there is nothing left. I think that I have been living in a bit of a dreamworld regarding marriage up until recently, and despite having read quite a few threads in the OW/OM forum, I am still shocked that people view marriage this way!!! Call me naive, but what do people expect of marriage these days??? Why get married at all if you are just going to bail out (or look elsewhere) when the going gets tough? Surely, people don't expect to sail through their entire lives together without hitting rough spots, without their feelings for each other ebbing & flowing, without their relationship changing completely when children come along, without seeing some other eye candy that they'd love to f**k. In my opinion, a part of being married (as opposed to just being being in a relationship) is that you have made a decision to work through everything that comes along, to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to work out your differences (as long as there is no abuse involved, of course). It builds character & makes you wiser and makes you a more rounded person. If one person in a marriage is feeling like they have been "put on the backburner" for whatever reason, then whatever happened to using their mouth & communicating? All it takes is a simple, "Sweetheart, I love you, but I am not feeling happy in our marriage." I read a quote somewhere a while back & I think it sums up what I am trying to say. It went someting like this : "No one ever said in their marriage vows that they'll only stay in the marriage until they are no longer happy". Ask anyone who has been married a long time & they'll tell you that marriage is NOT about euphoric feelings of being in love/lust. It is about the day-to-day but I think so many people are searching for something that doesn't exist. Quote from YOUYSAVEME: But the battle between BS and OW will never stop even after the OW becomes the one and only because there will still be closed minded people that only judge a book by its cover and dont take the time to read the story before making a complete judgement call. Personally, I think that there will always be people who judge actions rather than words - and the action of being a party to an affair affair speaks volumes. Quote: Originally Posted by NoIDidn't The person that started this thread first said s/he wanted peace between the opposite sides and then started to be anything but a peacemaker. While I agree that tending to a M is needed, to come off like you are blaming the W (the person here chatting with you) is beyond misguided. If the guy is cheating, can you honestly say that HE is tending to his M. I really wish people would stop saying that, because it goes both ways. He is not justified in cheating and the "clean up woman" that attempts to remove him from his M is really no better than he is if she knew he was M and continued anyways. The state of the M is a joint effort and I don't for the life of me understand a person that thinks unhappiness justifies coming in like a thief in the night. I understand a little of the whys and hows a person finds themself the OW, but there is no justifiable why or how of becoming betrayed. The two sides just don't have the TRUTH between them to come to any understanding or "peace" (speaking of the two actually around a specific man, not the folks on this board). To the OP, if you are going to say you want peace, but then set out to attack the BW that show up with your own frustrations is juvenile, at best. Shows a complete lack of maturity or humility. And shows that you really aren't nearly as happy as you would have anyone here to believe. Thank you, NoIDidn't, for bringing some common sense & reality back into this thread! Quote: Originally Posted by peacelove I will bow out for Peace sake. Let's see who else will back off. Initially, I saw the funny side of this post, but that soon turned to seeing the selfish side of this post. Still thinking only of numero uno. Originally Posted by adunaphel As long as it will be OW vs BW's, life will be much easier for wandering husbands. I agree, however, I think that it is also true that as long as there are women who are willing to sleep with other women's husbands, life will be much easier for wandering husbands. If they can't find it elsewhere, then maybe they will be forced to show some real character & fix it at home. Quote: Originally Posted by peacelove Take care of your husbands so ow won't have to!!!!!! I was astounded when I first read this post, but then I realised that she meant to say that if OW only took care of themselves, then they wouldn't have to take care of someone else's man! Quote from QueenBee930: I'm the wife OW dread. I've told my husband unless he is willing to either enter into witness protection program or suffer horrible emotional and physical pain and do the same for his OW. But only if she knows about me, otherwise I have no bones w/ her. My H, on the other hand, well, he would suffer unimaginably. Steven Kings Misery gave me great ideas. I mean if you don't want to be with me tell me. I can take it. But I will not put up with that type of disrespect. Queenbee - what can I say? I love you & look forward to reading many more of your posts! Quote: Originally Posted by elmejor You need to accept the reality that being married and having children with someone guarantees you nothing. If I love a man and he loves me, I WILL be with him, and no one will stop me. Elmejor, I am not a religious person, however, before I go to sleep tonight I am going to pray for you & thank God that I am not like you. When I read/hear these kind of comments, I remind myself that what goes around comes around. I am trying really hard not to attack anyone personally, even if I don't agree with their views, however the selfishness of this comment blows me away. I do not know your story or your situation, but I find it hard to believe that someone who has ever been married for any length of time, and has children, could possibly share your views. Part of moving from childhood to adulthood & parenthood is about learning that life does not always have to be about focusing only on your own needs - in fact, it can be even more fulfilling when you focus on, & have empathy for, others, even if you do not know them. Quote from NoForgiveness: So did you steal your prince charming yet? Are you in a state with alianation of affection laws? I hope so. NF, not being from the US, I have no idea what this means? What on earth are "alianation of affection laws?" It sounds very intriguing! Quote from puddleofmud: Reciprocation? Yes, I have the same question: why is it that "men" are the do all and be all? If I don't use a fabric softener he likes then am I responsible for him having sex w/ another? If he strays should I desperately seek better detergent? Get a make-over, a thong, a tummy tuck? I know that is quite sarcastic; but jeez, why is anyone responsible for another's poor behavior? Why are women responsible? The "blame game" is exactly that--a GAME. No one wins. :lmao: Thanks for the laugh puddleofmud. It was about time something funny was said in this thread. I disagree with you on your last point though - someone definately wins the game & the prize, it's just that it's the BOOBY PRIZE!!! Originally posted by PureInHeart: When he left I was financially in ruin, had been laid off from my normal job for quite some time, and was working as a cashier for minimum wage....he wiped out the little money that was in the joint account.... Totally at my end, I called a good friend who on many occasions counceled me....she freaked out saying, "your old job has been looking for you" (I had changed my phone # when he left). So....got my normal job back....my inheritance came through, and many other wonderful things....his loss Three cheers for you PureInHeart, I am so glad to hear that you are doing well - it certainly sounds like you deserve it. all the best.
frannie Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 I think that I have been living in a bit of a dreamworld regarding marriage up until recently, and despite having read quite a few threads in the OW/OM forum, I am still shocked that people view marriage this way!!! Call me naive, but what do people expect of marriage these days??? Why get married at all if you are just going to bail out (or look elsewhere) when the going gets tough? Surely, people don't expect to sail through their entire lives together without hitting rough spots, without their feelings for each other ebbing & flowing, without their relationship changing completely when children come along, without seeing some other eye candy that they'd love to f**k. In my opinion, a part of being married (as opposed to just being being in a relationship) is that you have made a decision to work through everything that comes along, to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to work out your differences (as long as there is no abuse involved, of course). It builds character & makes you wiser and makes you a more rounded person. If one person in a marriage is feeling like they have been "put on the backburner" for whatever reason, then whatever happened to using their mouth & communicating? All it takes is a simple, "Sweetheart, I love you, but I am not feeling happy in our marriage." I read a quote somewhere a while back & I think it sums up what I am trying to say. It went someting like this : "No one ever said in their marriage vows that they'll only stay in the marriage until they are no longer happy". With regard to "eye candy that you'd like to f**k"... just a few posts before you someone was talking about an OW (actually, might have been two posts saying the same thing)... an OW that looked like a man. Well, there you go... OW aren't necessarily just eye candy, are they? Anyway, ignoring all other derogatory remarks about other women and back to the point you made about staying married. In my view, and legally speaking, NO ONE has to stay and make a marriage work when it's not working for them. No one. It's not always as simple as saying 'I'm not happy, let's work on it'. Sometimes, the other person just does not want to put in the same kind of effort. So tell me, why should anyone stick around when that is the case? Infidelity isn't the only way to break one's marriage vows. When you get married you generally promise to love and honour, or cherish, or whatever. Neglecting the cherishing is just as destructive, just as much going against the spirit of the union as anything else. OK, not everyone says the same words. I'm not even sure 'til death us do part' is said by everyone. But the point is, that marriage is an agreement between two people, and both of them need to keep focused on that agreement, in all its aspects. Otherwise one partner IS justified in walking away, separating, and divorcing. Anyone who thinks that they get a ring on their finger and can then basically consider themselves in it for life, while not upholding their half of the deal is missing the point, to my mind. And that's not aimed at women only, but both partners in a marriage.
Ladyjane14 Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 Otherwise one partner IS justified in walking away, separating, and divorcing. Sure they are. But what they aren't "justified" in is choosing deceit over honesty. Justifying an action and rationalizing one are two different things. When we "rationalize" we're only fooling ourselves. We're twisting the data in order to suit our own purposes. When a person cheats on their own belief system... who are they really cheating the most? Sure the betrayed partner gets their feelings hurt, but they don't have to look in the mirror everyday and KNOW they sold out on their own values. For folks who lack any personal belief or sense of morality... no problem. But I suspect those folks are few and far between. The rest will live with guilt and disappointment in their failure to adhere to their own beliefs. OR... they'll continue to rationalize their choices in perpetuity. p.s. I've noticed as I get older that regrets don't just go away. Instead, I find that I've got plenty of time to revisit points in my life in which I've let myself down. There are some choices I wish I had back. And ALL of them have a basic common theme... in each instance, I didn't adhere to my principles.
whichwayisup Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 I agree, however, I think that it is also true that as long as there are women who are willing to sleep with other women's husbands, life will be much easier for wandering husbands. If they can't find it elsewhere, then maybe they will be forced to show some real character & fix it at home. I agree, and (hahahaha) it's not like a MM is gonna go be-friend another man (unless he really wants to) and take him to bed, have an affair because ALL women decide universally that they're gonna stay away from MM! I know this wouldn't ever happen, but it would be abit humourous... Infidelity isn't the only way to break one's marriage vows. When you get married you generally promise to love and honour, or cherish, or whatever. Neglecting the cherishing is just as destructive, just as much going against the spirit of the union as anything else. But it's not as painful as it is when you find out your spouse is cheating on you. Apples and oranges...
Adunaphel Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 I agree, however, I think that it is also true that as long as there are women who are willing to sleep with other women's husbands, life will be much easier for wandering husbands. If they can't find it elsewhere, then maybe they will be forced to show some real character & fix it at home. You are right. But (just pretend for a moment that I were not an OW) would you be happy to be with a person who does not cheat on you only because he cannot find someone to cheat on you with? I think that a guy who had an affair and showed some real character telling his wife about it and accepting the responsability would be better than a guy who ended up working on his marriage (after he was rejected by a hundred OW) because it was his only option.
lasan Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 Girl from Oz- Yes that is exactly how I view a marriage. Marriages take work. Just like a garden. It's a cheesy analogy but it is a very true one. You have to water it, and the weeds. It's not fun work. It's hard work. You're going to get dirty, and tired. To me it reallly is that simple. There are so many things to distract us from our marriages. Work, family, even friends sometimes. I used to participate on a forum that had a section specifically for sexless marriages. The amount of people who were there staggered me. It was mostly men (although there were some women too) who were jut fed up and wanted out because they were sick and tired of not having their needs met. This was a pretty neat forum because even the wives would come on and post about their situations. The wives couldn't believe that their husbands would want to cheat, or just get out because they hadn't got sex in a couple months-years. The husbands couldn't believe that the wives couldn't see how important it was. The reasons for both men and women were pretty much the same (why they weren't having sex). Too tired, because they worked. Just didn't feel like it because they had work or kid related things on their mind. Lost interest over the years, and had no interest in getting it back. Some of them were medical reason (almost all those people got their sex lives back on track). All of this left the other spouse feeling rejected, and very lonely. Some of them ended up having affairs. Some of them just divorced. All of the ones who divorced noted one thing though, when their spouses remarried, their sex drive appeared to be just fine again (lol). Point of my typing about that is, that is one seemingly small issue that drives couples apart. (It's not a small issue to me, but to alot of my girlfriends it appears to be. I feel sorry for their hubbies lol) With a marriage you have to grow together....We grow everyday. Well most of us anyway. Back to the plant analogy. My Gran works with plants. When they are young, she molds some of them to grow a certain way. She has to check on it every day, make adjustments. She works to keep it pliable. She does it because one day the plant is going to be so pliable anymore, and it will be too late to change the way it grows. It takes her alot of work, and time, and effort. She could be out with friends, she could be watching tv on the couch, she could be out shopping somewhere. But she chooses to work in her garden, and make it beautiful. That is how I view a marriage. It does't always work like that. Because sadly you can't change another persons heart. That is what I had to realize about my own marriage in the end. What he was doing had little to do with me, and alot more to do with him. Someone said to me in another thread the difference between my experience and most of the women here is that I was in an unhappy marriage, and they are in happy ones. I contend that some of your marriages aren't as happy as you think. It might be happy for the You, but have you checked with your spouse lately? My ex was a flat out dog. I don't think most of your husbands are that way. I suspect you all don't either. If they aren't like my ex (Thank God, I wouldn't wish him on my worst enemy) then that leaves me to believe that they have grown unhappy with something. Does it make it ok to cheat? Heck no. I will never say it is ok to cheat. I will say, I see how it happens sometimes.
Trialbyfire Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 There are two sides to men not getting sex when they want it. Are these men helping out on the domestic side? In these marriages, are the two sufficient friends that they can discuss issues with each other so that it helps to alleviate stress for both partners? Not all, but there are plenty out there that feel if they work, what does the wife do when she's at home, not taking into consideration of the children's needs, his domestic needs and whatever other stresses she has in her life. Some of these women are also working to help supplement the family income. Superwoman is hard to do with little to no help from their spouses. Btw, this was not my situation. I'm a career person and always have been.
lasan Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 There are two sides to men not getting sex when they want it. Are these men helping out on the domestic side? In these marriages, are the two sufficient friends that they can discuss issues with each other so that it helps to alleviate stress for both partners? Not all, but there are plenty out there that feel if they work, what does the wife do when she's at home, not taking into consideration of the children's needs, his domestic needs and whatever other stresses she has in her life. Some of these women are also working to help supplement the family income. Superwoman is hard to do with little to no help from their spouses. Btw, this was not my situation. I'm a career person and always have been. When I was participating on this forum, alot of their wives/husbands would post too. Some of them had the issues you described above, some of them didn't. It was a very interesting read. (It also made me worry that when I hit 30 I will turn into a sexless woman that doesn't want a man touching me LOL.) Before I read there, I held the opinion that if wife wasn't having sex with her spouse, it was because she was overworked and had little help in the home. After reading there, I realized it's alot more common than I thought, and it isn't always because the wife is overworked, and her hubby a couch potato. (also vice versa for the women who had hubbies who stopped having sex. I mention men first because there were alot more men who were there as opposed to women.) Some people found out they had thyroid problems, or were depressed. Some poeple were depressed. Some people continued to blow off their spouses needs. Of those people, some stayed together, some got divorced. I wasn't really trying to apply what I have read to anyone here specifically, I was just using it as an example,
Trialbyfire Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 When I was participating on this forum, alot of their wives/husbands would post too. Some of them had the issues you described above, some of them didn't. It was a very interesting read. (It also made me worry that when I hit 30 I will turn into a sexless woman that doesn't want a man touching me LOL.) Before I read there, I held the opinion that if wife wasn't having sex with her spouse, it was because she was overworked and had little help in the home. After reading there, I realized it's alot more common than I thought, and it isn't always because the wife is overworked, and her hubby a couch potato. (also vice versa for the women who had hubbies who stopped having sex. I mention men first because there were alot more men who were there as opposed to women.) Some people found out they had thyroid problems, or were depressed. Some poeple were depressed. Some people continued to blow off their spouses needs. Of those people, some stayed together, some got divorced. I wasn't really trying to apply what I have read to anyone here specifically, I was just using it as an example, I agree that not every situation is like this. It's usually the small issues that tear apart marriages and relationships because people ignore them and they are allowed to fester. In most marriages, not one spouse is usually to blame although many men can't understand this because they are unable/unwilling to internalize. If you look at it solely from the perspective of a man that can't see the other side, it does look like the woman is always the one not holding up her part of the marriage. Having said this, there are subtle levels and nuances of every relationship and every person, especially when both parties know the other party's buttons and can/do push them when fighting. Regardless of understanding that it can easily be the woman's fault, I still stand against cheating. It's morally unacceptable.
lasan Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 Regardless of understanding that it can easily be the woman's fault, I still stand against cheating. It's morally unacceptable. I agree. I don't think it is ok. I just understand how it happens sometimes.
Trialbyfire Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 I agree. I don't think it is ok. I just understand how it happens sometimes. When it does, nut up and tell your spouse. If you must have domestic tranquility, go find a housekeeper to take care of things for you at home, not an unpaid, betrayed spouse. There's a reason why polygamy is not legal.
GirlFromOz Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 With regard to "eye candy that you'd like to f**k"... just a few posts before you someone was talking about an OW (actually, might have been two posts saying the same thing)... an OW that looked like a man. Well, there you go... OW aren't necessarily just eye candy, are they? Actually, this comment was a general one as I was trying to make the point that at some time (and probably many times) throughout a marriage BOTH partners are going to come accross someone that they would love to have sex with, whether they have an emotional attachment to them or not. I guess my comment was directed more at the MM and his inability to control himself in that kind of situation & distinguish right from wrong. In my view, and legally speaking, NO ONE has to stay and make a marriage work when it's not working for them. No one. It's not always as simple as saying 'I'm not happy, let's work on it'. Sometimes, the other person just does not want to put in the same kind of effort. So tell me, why should anyone stick around when that is the case? This is the whole point!!! Obviously, legally speaking no-one has to stay. But also, legally speaking, no-one has to get married in the first place. And if someone is just in a relationship and has never married, then I agree with you 100%. The whole point of getting married, rather than just being a couple, is that you get up and say vows in front of people you love & respect, and promise to be there through everything and go through the good & bad times & the happy & not-so-happy times in life together. Therefore, morally speaking, you should stick around. Not just stick around & be miserable but stick around & do what it takes to fix what isn't working. Neglecting the cherishing is just as destructive, just as much going against the spirit of the union as anything else. Generally, I think this point is a good one and neglecting to cherish certainly is destructive to any marriage. It's nothing, however, to being betrayed. Not even close. I am not saying that I think it is ok to neglect your spouse because you could do worse things, just that the reason it doesn't hurt the marriage as much is that there is no betrayal involved & it is easier to fix & move on from. Anyway, the point I was trying to make about marriage initially included all this stuff. Whatever is not working in a marriage, whether it be the cherishing, the sex, the housework etc & regardless of which person thinks it, because they are married & made public vows, they owe it to themselves, their spouse & their families to work through rather than baling. In the end they will be better people.
GirlFromOz Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 You are right. But (just pretend for a moment that I were not an OW) would you be happy to be with a person who does not cheat on you only because he cannot find someone to cheat on you with? I think that a guy who had an affair and showed some real character telling his wife about it and accepting the responsability would be better than a guy who ended up working on his marriage (after he was rejected by a hundred OW) because it was his only option. This is a good point & one that I had to think quite hard about, but it still doesn't sit with me. No partner in a marriage should go looking elsewhere. there are other options. 1.Fix the marriage or 2. If you truly, truly believe that it is beyong fixing, then leave, before you hook up with someone else. The third option of having an affair just wouldn't exist if both the MM & the potential OW didn't allow it to. So, the MM should not go looking for an OW in the first place, hence there wouldn't be rejections. He should show some character instead. BUT there also shouldn't be women who are willing to be other women. That way, it wouldn't even be an option - he wouldn't even think about the possibility of it. Please note that I am not trying to piss OW off by this comment. It is simply how I feel & I know that many of you won't agree with me, but I do want to emphasize that even though I do not & will not ever agree with the actions of any OW, I do acknowledge that the OW (uinless married herself) has never made any vows to anyone & therefore, if you look at the basics (ie without looking at morals etc) than the OW does not owe the BS & her children anything - it is the MM who has made the promises etc & therefore, he is the main person to blame for this situation. I feel I'm not explaining myself as well as I would like to on this point but hopefully it makes sense!
norajane Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 I do acknowledge that the OW (uinless married herself) has never made any vows to anyone & therefore, if you look at the basics (ie without looking at morals etc) than the OW does not owe the BS & her children anything - it is the MM who has made the promises etc & therefore, he is the main person to blame for this situation. I feel I'm not explaining myself as well as I would like to on this point but hopefully it makes sense! Speaking as a former OW, I'll say that I've read this argument before on LS...that because the OW didn't make the vows, she doesn't owe the W anything. I violently disagree with that! Marriage is a social contract, as well as a legal contract and a deep personal commitment (and a spiritual one, for some, as well). OW and OM have made no such commitment or contract with anyone; however, that does not absolve them of the duty to respect the social contract of marriage even if the WS does not. I know others disagree, but that's what I believe. We are all members of society and therefore must respect one of its primary social institutions if it is to have meaning. How can we want marriage for ourselves if we do not respect the institution?
GirlFromOz Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 Someone said to me in another thread the difference between my experience and most of the women here is that I was in an unhappy marriage, and they are in happy ones. I contend that some of your marriages aren't as happy as you think. It might be happy for the You, but have you checked with your spouse lately? My ex was a flat out dog. I don't think most of your husbands are that way. I suspect you all don't either. If they aren't like my ex (Thank God, I wouldn't wish him on my worst enemy) then that leaves me to believe that they have grown unhappy with something. Does it make it ok to cheat? Heck no. I will never say it is ok to cheat. I will say, I see how it happens sometimes. Lasan, I do like your whole post & I agree. It's a lovely analogy. I too, can see how it happens sometimes, but still feel very strongly that it NEVER should. Regarding the point about how BS often think they are in happy marriages, you are right. But if one spouse is not happy, the other spouse is not going to know unless they are told.
GirlFromOz Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 In my view, and legally speaking, NO ONE has to stay and make a marriage work when it's not working for them. No one. It's not always as simple as saying 'I'm not happy, let's work on it'. Sometimes, the other person just does not want to put in the same kind of effort. So tell me, why should anyone stick around when that is the case? Frannie, I also meant to say in the other post that yes, "NO ONE has to stay" (even though I personally believe they should). But the whole point of an affair, and why it is an affair as opposed to a standard relationship, is that they DO stay! They are still with their spouse, and, in most cases, continue to stay with their spouse. So they don't have to stay, but they do.
elmejor Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 :laugh: I find this post very humorous and very telling of you and your me me me attitude. It's all about me and what i want. Didn't your mommy ever tell you NO. I do not blame the other woman. I do not attack the other woman I ask questions of them and where they think they are getting with their go no where situation. The MM is very at fault but they aren't posting here are they? So did you steal your prince charming yet? Are you in a state with alianation of affection laws? I hope so. I know my questions about the reality of living a lie are probably difficult for you to read because they force you to examine your situation. I assume it's not too good and you're not too happy. It would not be a secret if their was nothing wrong with what you are doing. It wouldn't be a secret if it was as simple as he doesn't love his wife anymore. The secret is the big lie. If it has to be a secret you are living a lie. You assume an awful lot, noforgiveness, but not surprisingly, you are incorrect on all counts. I realize that I'm probably wasting my time responding to you, but let me assure you, you know NOTHING about my situation, and if I choose to tell you, I will. In the meantime, don't just assume that you know everything about me. You ask if I have "stolen" a "prince charming." Please! That would not be necessary, they come TO ME, always have. I can tell you haven't been in this forum long! Silly! What I was doing with my message was attempting to respond to your senseless rantings. You mention "Alienation of Affection" laws. You must be kidding! Why don't you talk about things that you actually know something about? For the record, the laws you refer to have been struck down in almost every state in the U.S. These were OLD laws, enforced back in a time when women were considered "property" of their spouses. In other words, in this country, it is recognized that spouses DO NOT OWN each other. I've argued that point in this forum in the past, and I've already won that argument here. ---yawn---You know, I've noticed that the hysterical wives who post here often want to tell the OW that they are in a "no-win" situation, as you referred to it. Let me tell you, Sugar, that when a H is with the OW, the wife has already lost. But, you can't see that, you're too busy attacking posters in this forum who are OW, telling them how "wrong" they are. Do you actually think for one minute that the OW care what YOU think? That they will stop being OW because of your attacks?
lasan Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 Lasan, I do like your whole post & I agree. It's a lovely analogy. I too, can see how it happens sometimes, but still feel very strongly that it NEVER should. Regarding the point about how BS often think they are in happy marriages, you are right. But if one spouse is not happy, the other spouse is not going to know unless they are told. Exactly, and that is mistake number one. I tell everyone I date to please please please tell me if something is up. Don't cheat on me, don't expose me to diseases. I can only hope that whoever I am with is honest with me as I am with them.
Trialbyfire Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 Two years later I testified for him to the fact that he was not physically abusive with me....she had beat him up and called the cops and said he beat her up.... When he left I was financially in ruin, had been laid off from my normal job for quite some time, and was working as a cashier for minimum wage....he wiped out the little money that was in the joint account.... Totally at my end, I called a good friend who on many occasions counceled me....she freaked out saying, "your old job has been looking for you" (I had changed my phone # when he left). So....got my normal job back....my inheritance came through, and many other wonderful things....his loss Somehow I missed this post. I know I wouldn't have the grace or forgiveness in me to have helped him. You're something else and I mean that sincerely. You assume an awful lot, noforgiveness, but not surprisingly, you are incorrect on all counts. I realize that I'm probably wasting my time responding to you, but let me assure you, you know NOTHING about my situation, and if I choose to tell you, I will. In the meantime, don't just assume that you know everything about me. You ask if I have "stolen" a "prince charming." Please! That would not be necessary, they come TO ME, always have. I can tell you haven't been in this forum long! Silly! What I was doing with my message was attempting to respond to your senseless rantings. You mention "Alienation of Affection" laws. You must be kidding! Why don't you talk about things that you actually know something about? For the record, the laws you refer to have been struck down in almost every state in the U.S. These were OLD laws, enforced back in a time when women were considered "property" of their spouses. In other words, in this country, it is recognized that spouses DO NOT OWN each other. I've argued that point in this forum in the past, and I've already won that argument here. ---yawn---You know, I've noticed that the hysterical wives who post here often want to tell the OW that they are in a "no-win" situation, as you referred to it. Let me tell you, Sugar, that when a H is with the OW, the wife has already lost. But, you can't see that, you're too busy attacking posters in this forum who are OW, telling them how "wrong" they are. Do you actually think for one minute that the OW care what YOU think? That they will stop being OW because of your attacks? Wow, speaking of predatory OW, so this is about winning or losing? Point blank honey, you're the loser because you're morally bankrupt and really, you should be honest with yourself. You have the table scraps, while the wife has the banquet. Fool yourself all you want that sex with a MM is the top of the line Filet Mignon. In reality, a can of dog food is dog food but maybe you like dog food. I know I don't. Each to their own I guess.
elmejor Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 Well now, someone has an abnormal food fixation. LOL! How strange--and sad for you--that you have no way of expressing yourself intelligently. What are you doing on the OW forum anyway? Do you consider yourself to be contributing anything helpful at all? And when did I call myself an OW, by the way? Trialbyfire, you've wandered into the wrong forum and trust me, you do not want to argue with me! Go to bed now. EM
Trialbyfire Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 Well now, someone has an abnormal food fixation. LOL! How strange--and sad for you--that you have no way of expressing yourself intelligently. What are you doing on the OW forum anyway? Do you consider yourself to be contributing anything helpful at all? And when did I call myself an OW, by the way? Trialbyfire, you've wandered into the wrong forum and trust me, you do not want to argue with me! Go to bed now. EM lol, the sheer arrogance of someone who has no integrity. Do you like to bottom feed?
elmejor Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 Oh, Gawd--another food reference. Now, you're boring me! Ok, you can have a snack, but then you really should go to bed... EM
Trialbyfire Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 Oh, Gawd--another food reference. Now, you're boring me! Ok, you can have a snack, but then you really should go to bed... EM I have a man in my bed, where's yours?
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