IfWishesWereHorses Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 You are absolutely correct Elmejor! NF, there will always be people who cannot or choose not to distinguish right from wrong and only act on their own desires. Too bad that we can't just divide the world in half and keep them on their own side so that they can only take advantage of each other. Elmejor, surely there is a bank down the road with money in it that you want...go take it. Oh, right you are able to distinguish from consequences which might affect you OWN life.
norajane Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 Elmejor, surely there is a bank down the road with money in it that you want...go take it. Oh, right you are able to distinguish from consequences which might affect you OWN life. I disagree with that last statement - the consequences of an affair and falling in love with someone else's spouse are generally pretty clear from the start. It's not a situation filled with promise for long term happiness and contentment. It's more likely a recipe for hungry longing and unfulfilled wishes.
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 I think this whole thing is enough. You know we are never going to see eye to eye about the situtation of the OW with a MM. I will say this every situtation is different. The only thing that remains the same is the pain that everyone goes through. Its an unreal pain that I dont want anyone else to experience. So my advice to anyone becoming involved with a MM is not too. I never wanted to come here and be called names , or have my character attacked. It happened. So why cant people be adults and just stop it already. If you want to get nasty with someone go get nasty to the OW that you are upset with.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 You are completely right, BUT it is not enforced by a manditory sentence, say five years in prison or being hung in the village square. THAT would make people think twice! Not suggesting it just commenting that people choose to do what they want but also are intelligent enough to way manditory consequences. "The if I want it I'll take it" attitude doesn't apply to all aspects of life, just those that I believe won't have an negative outcome on my life - whether they affect others or not. I completely understand that OW get sucked in and misled and hurt - that doesn't seem to be enough though to deter them.
Author peacelove Posted December 1, 2006 Author Posted December 1, 2006 Then how can we deter the mm from straying from his wife?
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 You are completely right, BUT it is not enforced by a manditory sentence, say five years in prison or being hung in the village square. THAT would make people think twice! Not suggesting it just commenting that people choose to do what they want but also are intelligent enough to way manditory consequences. "The if I want it I'll take it" attitude doesn't apply to all aspects of life, just those that I believe won't have an negative outcome on my life - whether they affect others or not. I completely understand that OW get sucked in and misled and hurt - that doesn't seem to be enough though to deter them. For me i never thought i would be in this situtation. Not in a million years. Was my dream to fall in love with a MM. Yes, I was wrong i was looking to cheat on my bf (now my ex). He was wrong by looking to cheat on his wife. The aftermath was somethine neither one of us thought could have ever been possibly. But it did happen. We got caught and got back together. We bear our crosses for the time being for two innocent kids.
norajane Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 Then how can we deter the mm from straying from his wife? We can teach our children about integrity. We can teach them that if a marriage isn't going well, either work on it to make it better, or get a divorce. We can teach them that cheating isn't an option.
NoIDidn't Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 I think this whole thing is enough. You know we are never going to see eye to eye about the situtation of the OW with a MM. No, we are not. We are on completely different sides of the fence so there are things that are obscured from view for both of us. I never wanted to come here and be called names , or have my character attacked. It happened. It has happened to the BWs here too. Not just to you. But you stood in support of those attacking the BW. You might not have posted it, but you did indeed post "I agree" in many cases. So why cant people be adults and just stop it already. This goes both ways. There are a couple of OW here that are downright nasty and juvenile in their postings. Ranting about how happy you are with someone else's H, like you won some sort of contest, is just evil and mean-spirited. I haven't seen you do it, but there are those that have. Being an adult about the posts, goes both ways. You might not post some of the more vitriolic postings, but I have seen you agree with them. But when someone posts something not in support of your stance, you start on the "let's be adults" thing. An adult accepts that not everyone agrees with them or their choices. Even when we make good choices, not everyone is going to agree with us. So can we all be adults, and stop with the trying to put an end to posts that don't agree with our stance dance?
noforgiveness Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 noforgiveness: Your constant blaming of the OW here is tiresome. What you are failing to understand is that PLENTY of married people, both men and women, DO fall in love with people other than their spouses, and divorce may or may not be the result. You are spinning your wheels here. You need to accept the reality that being married and having children with someone guarantees you nothing. If I love a man and he loves me, I WILL be with him, and no one will stop me. You keep demanding that ALL women in the world AVOID married men because they are "off limits." Look around you. It ain't gonna happen. :laugh: I find this post very humorous and very telling of you and your me me me attitude. It's all about me and what i want. Didn't your mommy ever tell you NO. I do not blame the other woman. I do not attack the other woman I ask questions of them and where they think they are getting with their go no where situation. The MM is very at fault but they aren't posting here are they? So did you steal your prince charming yet? Are you in a state with alianation of affection laws? I hope so. I know my questions about the reality of living a lie are probably difficult for you to read because they force you to examine your situation. I assume it's not too good and you're not too happy. It would not be a secret if their was nothing wrong with what you are doing. It wouldn't be a secret if it was as simple as he doesn't love his wife anymore. The secret is the big lie. If it has to be a secret you are living a lie.
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 No, we are not. We are on completely different sides of the fence so there are things that are obscured from view for both of us. It has happened to the BWs here too. Not just to you. But you stood in support of those attacking the BW. You might not have posted it, but you did indeed post "I agree" in many cases. This goes both ways. There are a couple of OW here that are downright nasty and juvenile in their postings. Ranting about how happy you are with someone else's H, like you won some sort of contest, is just evil and mean-spirited. I haven't seen you do it, but there are those that have. Being an adult about the posts, goes both ways. You might not post some of the more vitriolic postings, but I have seen you agree with them. But when someone posts something not in support of your stance, you start on the "let's be adults" thing. An adult accepts that not everyone agrees with them or their choices. Even when we make good choices, not everyone is going to agree with us. So can we all be adults, and stop with the trying to put an end to posts that don't agree with our stance dance? I have posted many things some directed at certain comments made. I have tried many times to put an end to the nasties between everyone. We all have bad days... You know what they only I have to agree with is this..Im not completely happy with the situtation. It is my choice that i have continued to ride this roller coaster. But it will end soon. Im just tired of arguing. Im sorry if i have offended you before. But i dont believe i have. But sorry.... As for winning a prize. At this point in my life NO MAN is a prize...They are what they are. We love them and we hate them. I guess they can say the same thing for us... How does that saying go..." You cant live with them and you cant live without them"
NoIDidn't Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 OW vs. BW? Who made that happen? The BW didn't. So who did? Hmmmmm..... Can't put all of the blame on the married guy if you got into knowing he was married. No matter if you said vows to the betrayed or not, you wouldn't want someone doing to your marriage what you are doing to theirs. And as true as it is that not one A is the same, they all share this one thing: someone is being betrayed. Someone is this triangle is innocent, and its not the OW or the MM. No matter how fast you try to spin it. I understand both sides of it, but I could not be the OW - at least not for long. Not because of all of the morality surrounding the issue at all. But because I am by nature a very impatient person. I could not wait for some guy to decide what he wanted to do about his M or his engagement or his GF or whatever. If he wants to be with me, in my mind, I don't have to wait, and I won't. In another thread with Bonehead, I spoke about my dealings with an ex that had a GF. I knew this guy had no intention of leaving his GF, in fact I felt that he would M her and she would probably D him. Both happened and a lot faster than I thought. I didn't have the patience to wait for him when I had a life of my own to be out living.
Ladyjane14 Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 How does that saying go..." You cant live with them and you cant live without them" I think it's... "You can't live with 'em, and you just can't shoot 'em." -The Forrester Sisters :laugh:
noforgiveness Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 Well said funny how you and peacelove should agree with those words that if we want him we will have him but then you turn around and act like you know what you are doing is wrong. so peacelove and yousaveme how's it working for you. Is he all yours yet?
climbergirl Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 noforgiveness: Your constant blaming of the OW here is tiresome. What you are failing to understand is that PLENTY of married people, both men and women, DO fall in love with people other than their spouses, and divorce may or may not be the result. You are spinning your wheels here. You need to accept the reality that being married and having children with someone guarantees you nothing. If I love a man and he loves me, I WILL be with him, and no one will stop me. You keep demanding that ALL women in the world AVOID married men because they are "off limits." Look around you. It ain't gonna happen. Interesting. By that logic I guess you should ask yourself what is stopping him. Who is he with??
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 I think it's... "You can't live with 'em, and you just can't shoot 'em." -The Forrester Sisters :laugh: Sometimes, or somedays boy do i wish i could.....
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 funny how you and peacelove should agree with those words that if we want him we will have him but then you turn around and act like you know what you are doing is wrong. so peacelove and yousaveme how's it working for you. Is he all yours yet? I know what i did was wrong ....I know what i did was wrong in my relationship also. I should have really clarified what i meant.
puddleofmud Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 I have read this thread w/ great interest and what I would hope will come from it is to understand that often one must learn from the "process" of a relationship and by simple human nature will most likely not choose an abrupt ending. The OW, knowing what she knows won't leave abruptly. The BS knowing what she knows won't end things abruptly. That should not be an expectation of either! Women are quite different from men in their emotional responses: we may need to talk to it out and ponder each and every detail. We may want to know if SHE (either woman) is prettier, is she more exciting in bed, why did he want her? This may stem from a lack of self-esteem, from an emotional means of arming one's self to either stay or go, to be used as a means of fighting for what wishes to keep. No matter the reason I feel it is a natural reponse we should be more kind about indulging, both OW and BS. Everyone seeks a REASON for their pain; if one can find something to hold on to (even if it is not particularly rational) then one has something to operate upon; one has a means of dealing. This is a great deal like a death: any form of dealing with deep pain, whether self-inflicted, done by another or just LIFE is going to be a process; there are no concrete equasions. There are stages and one can see how many here are suffering through some stage or another. This about LOSS, which a most fearful place! We are forced to be in a situation where we must face loosing someone, loosing our lives as we knew it, loosing ourselves--our dignity, our self respect, our future, our ability to connect with others, our places in our families and community. Every one here is fearing loss and has a right to do so! Every one here is in a place of dealing with fear. Fear brings frustration, anger, guilt, blaming and countless other emotions. That is just the way it is. Even the most angry and mean posts are usually about fear about what may be happening to them. In any initiation of crisis one is rarely rational! Pain is a spring board in to hell... It takes a loooong time to negotiate one's way back from hell. So I would like to be patient with others, even when I am not so patient with myself. I don't know what the answers are...but I do know that by becoming a participant in my own healing will bring me some answers, though they may not be the ones I want.
NoIDidn't Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 The betrayed has much anger and I don't suspect that the never married or otherwise single OW understands that. To find out that your H has cheated on you evokes the most vivid flashing of your life before your own eyes. No one deserves the jarring experience of d-day. I understand the anger of the BW, but not the nonchalance of some of the OW here. I have known women that have given up much to support their Hs in their careers and other aspirations only to be cheated on. Don't tell those women that they didn't cherish him or support him enough. Don't insult her more by claiming she wasn't woman enough to keep him satisfied. Don't attempt to blame her solely for the state of her M, whatever state it is in is no one's business but the people in it. You don't want to release the anger of the BW, then don't blame her for his cheating. Its not her fault. Its not even your fault.
NoIDidn't Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 YSM You didn't offend me in the least. I was just pointing out what I felt to be a bit of one-sidedness in your request. You don't have to justify your situation to me or anyone else. I really do accept that you are going what you want to do for you, and what you feel is best for you. I may not agree, but I am not interested in getting you to change your mind by a long shot. I really don't see any arguing. I see some posters agreeing and disagreeing. But no arguing. At least not yet anyways.
Author peacelove Posted December 1, 2006 Author Posted December 1, 2006 Yes, He Is Mine. 100%. Any More Questions?
noforgiveness Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 Yes, He Is Mine. 100%. Any More Questions? then why do you consider yourself an OW?
herenow Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 Hey NF, Did you figure out PM yet. I have it, but I don't know how to use it.
outofdarkness Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 Take care of your husbands so ow won't have to!!!!!! why do men need to be "taken care of"?
puddleofmud Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 Yes, I have the same question: why is it that "men" are the do all and be all? If I don't use a fabric softener he likes then am I responsible for him having sex w/ another? If he strays should I desperately seek better detergent? Get a make-over, a thong, a tummy tuck? I know that is quite sarcastic; but jeez, why is anyone responsible for another's poor behavior? Why are women responsible? The "blame game" is exactly that--a GAME. No one wins.
Romeo Must Die Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 Dang! I knew I shouldn't have used that bargain fabric softener!!! (lol, thanks puddle)
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