The Next Step after Infidelity (sorry this is long)

[syz]

I'm 37 and my ex is 47 and we are both women. We began dating two and a half years ago after being friends on and off (due to my moving out of state) for five years. From the very beginning she was more enthusiastic about the relationship than I was. I had been very hurt in the past and wanted to be very careful before I got involved with her because I knew she was a relationship person and I wanted to make sure I could give her what she wanted. Our courtship really began when we reconnected and it lasted about 3 months before we began seeing each other or slept together. I really cherish those three months because I now feel that it is all I have left of our R.

 

The main issues in our R were that she was very much a pursuer and very afraid that I would go out on her or cheat on her. I am younger and by most standards typically better looking. This absolutely never bothered me or was an issue for me but it was for her. I think she is lovely and has a beautiful body (but I do know that I get more attention and this feeds her insecurity). ON my end I had been making very good money when we started going out but due to law changes I lost all four of my clinics, stopped making very good money and I sunk into a depression. I should have caught it being that I am a health care professional but once you are there it is very hard to get yourself out. This manifested in the usual ways, I was irritable, exhausted and withdrawn for about 7 months until the depression started to clear on its own. During this time my partner felt very unloved even though I tried very hard to tell her what I was going through had nothing to do with her.

 

Around march/april when the depression began to finally lift and I saw the mess of my life and my relationship I started to try very hard to work on myself, fix my life and be there for her. She seemed very disinterested and this caused some fights which we were never prone to having. In fact I used to think we communicated well... boy was I wrong. I had encouraged her to get some friends that fit her because she was only hanging out with me and my friends and I thought it would healthy for her to hang with people who enjoyed doing what she did namely running and long distance biking. So she had made friends with a very wealthy couple about her age and began going on long distance bike rides with one of the women.

 

This turned into an emotional affair. I was not aware of what was going on but I knew she wasn't happy and was asking for space. I tried so very hard to reach her and talk with her but she wouldn't budge. I finally told her if she was really that unhappy with me she should leave me but she didn't seem to want to do that. This went on all through may and june. In july she went on a 3 week bike trip with this woman who paid the thousands of dollars for her to go. It made me uncomfortable but I knew it was a wonderful opportunity to see part of the US by bike and I knew she wouldn't probably get the opportunity again. I felt bad letting my crap get in the way. I asked her shortly before her trip if she was attracted to this woman. She looked me straight in the face and said she had thought about it but no she wasn't. I believed her as I really did trust her due too from what I knew about her from our friendship. While she was gone on that ride I was in agony. I was having anxiety attacks and had a mess in my life that still needed cleaning up. I finally went on medication.

 

She hardly called me when she was on the ride. She said she wanted to just enjoy the experience and wanted to figure things out while she was there. (fairly hard to do when your face is buried between someone else's legs) The affair went on during the whole ride and the OW told her partner (of 22 years) straight up what was going on. Several people on the ride also figured it out. I felt like such a f**king idiot when I finally discovered what had happened over a month later and no one had told me.

 

It took me as long to figure it out as it did because I very much trusted her and I also did not think she was the kind of person who would screw over someone else, namely this woman's partner, who had my ex in her home, made dinners for after long rides and gave her money when she needed it.

 

When she got home from the ride she broke it off with me saying she needed to be alone and couldn't deal with how I had been. We talked about my depression and her attitude was "well I didn't know that was what it was but I don't want you to use it as an excuse for your behaviour". I had very little support from her during this time (she had been very supportive and wonderful in the past) Dealing with the depression felt like a huge admission of defeat for me as if I wasn't strong enough to deal with it on my own. Stupid I know and then she basically dismissed it as being an excuse. (she knows better now) During this time I still supported her friendship with this woman and also was trying very hard to understand her huge change in behaviour towards me. She had gone from being my friend to hardly looking me in the eye or talking with me or touching me or anything. I was angry and hurt and would say as much but she would dismiss it.

 

Finally five weeks after her return in I discovered the text messages on her phone. It was like she died right in front of me. The person I knew her to be was gone. It was awful reading those messages. She said she was really sorry but also told me she didn't tell me because she knew I would think that was why she left me and really this woman and me had nothing to do with each other. She still wasn't sure I deserved the truth. I asked the usual questions when, why what now. I wanted to throw her out the door and never look back but I didn't. I let her stay with me for several more months until Nov 1.

 

I had terrible guilt and remorse after I came out of the depression. I showed this to her during may and june. I wanted her to know she was loved and that I knew she hadn't felt that she had been. That I was so sorry. I swear I felt her lonliness and her pain in my very soul and a lot of the anxiety I experienced during july was due to this not just my own situation. I really suffered due to the back logged emotions I could not feel during my depression. I remember being on my knees, praying at two in the morning to be able to make it up to her somehow. To this day I have shown her more remorse than she has shown me. Her attitude for a long time seemed to be that I should experience that remorse and pain but when it came to how I felt about her treatment of me, well she had already been there and knew how it felt so oh well. Basically the usual things you see in someone who has an affair, she rewrote history, justified the behaviour in ways (yes, she conceeded, she should have told me when I asked and just left me before the affair)

 

I also wanted to give her a chance to change her mind. I gave her a second chance which is more than I feel that I got. It mattered to me that she not see me as the depressed person she had been with, that she know she was deeply cared for, and I felt as if I owed this to her because in the past she had truly been there for me. Even if she didn't not come back I felt she deserved something from me and I wanted her to know what it was like to be fought for. No one had ever fought for her or tried to keep her from leaving especially not someone she said she loved as much as me. She did say she fought for me but I really do not see it. I figure some of that is my fault and some of it is hers. She is afraid to say what she really wants and feels.

 

Anyway while she continued to stay with me she still received texts from the other woman although they couldn't really see each other because she was supposedly trying to put things back together with her partner. The texts were now not sexual in nature but emotional "I love you so xoxox" type of stuff. And they talked almost daily. One time she even left me sitting in a restaraunt so she could go outside and talk with her. (she can never call when she wants to because of the OW's partner who now understandably hates my ex) During this time we also slept together 4 times. It was wonderful (we always had a great sexual connection), painful and just plain sad. But the emotional affair continues and occasionally the OW was able to sneak out to see my ex for an hour here or a couple of hours there. I finally told her to move out and to go live near them which she did. Since she has moved out we have seen each other once. It was very hard and yet as always we get along great (we always really did like each other and had an easy connection). Of course the same stuff is going on and she is hoping the OW will leave her partner for her.

 

Here is my problem and this leads me to my question (I would especially appreciate feed back from people who have cheated.) I am angry as f*ck at the whole situation. I delayed my healing by my own choice so that I could do what I needed to do during the summer and part of this fall in regards to her. I needed to be square with myself and with her. I had failed her and needed to make it up to her & I feel that I have. I feel like she knew me well enough to know how bad this would be for me and a friendship would be most likely impossible after that kind of deceit. (She cheated once before on her ex husband when she was figuring out she was a lesbian and she knows the long term damage it can do.) She claims now that she really understands this and will never cheat on anyone else again. I think well lucky them and sell that sh*t to someone who needs to believe it.

 

She says she truly wants me in her life and one of the things she valued so much about me is how I maintain friendships with people I've been with before. I just do not know if I can forgive her. I am angry and bitter at the moment and have no idea what on earth she really has to offer me as a friend except more pain and something I really do not want from her which are occasional phone calls with the typical hey how are you crap. I really cannot participate in her life while the OW is still in the picture and she continues to help screw over someone else. I have truly lost my respect for her. The saddest part is she was one of my favorite people in the whole world, I was proud to be with her and now I am just ashamed. She says she cannot tell me all the reasons she did this because some have to do with stuff between the OW and her partner which she feels is not her place to tell me (I highly doubt she should know about it either) but it makes for more walls between us where before there had been none. I feel like a convienence. I do not want to be there when I will wonder if she would rather be with the OW. She reaches out to me with a phone call every 4 days or so. I usually do not answer. I've called her twice since she moved out. Part of me just feels done. My life is sad at the moment, I have to build it back up and fix all that fell apart. I feel truly abandoned. There is nothing of our R that I find that I value anymore it all feels like a huge lie to me except the part before she promised me anything. I've already said everything to her that I need to say. She did a good job of listening. I wasn't awful but I didn't hold back either. I have very conflicted feelings and right now they are mostly angry. I feel she does not deserve me in her life. I have no idea if it will matter or not but I'm thinking of asking her to just not contact me anymore and that I wish her luck with her life.

 

Anyone have any thoughts... thank you for listening... (also I gave so much history because I really don't want to make her out to be the bad guy, she put up with a lot from me although she is now beginning to think maybe, just maybe she put me through more...jeez)

[whichwayisup]

If she gets the OW out of her life, would you be willing to take her back? With the help of couples counselling ofcourse...

 

It seems her own insecurities, (fear of someone cheating on her all along) were actually a reflection of her own actions...Past and ever so recent present. Are you absolutely sure you want someone like this in your life as your partner? Not only that, but she wasn't there for you during your depression, she wasn't supportive at all.

 

People make mistakes, and most deserve a second chance...The thing is, if she isn't willing to end the friendship forever with the OW and go into no contact mode, then there is no point of even trying to work it out. That's not fair to you at all, and it does nothing to gain your trust and faith in her again.

 

Watch for her actions, not words. This will tell you alot.

 

I'm sorry for your pain, but I can see from reading your post that you are a very strong woman! I suffer from an anxiety disorder and I know how hard life can be with that, but reading what you've been through and throw in the depression - I have to commend you!

 

Stay strong and keep posting.

[syz]

No I'm not sure I want this person as a partner at this point I'm merely thinking about whether I want to keep her in my life at all or not. She isn't willing to give up the OW. Her head is so far up this woman's butt that she can't see reality. I know it and it has to go to hell for all of them first. I suspect that while the OW keeps my ex around and keeps her hanging on with the text messages and phone calls and occasional meetups that ultimately she isn't going to leave a 22 year partnership that for the most part seems good. Not only that but they have just finished remodeling their 2 million dollar home (they also have a very expensive apt up in oakland and a home they share on the east coast with friends) for the OW to leave her partner would be so expensive I'm not sure she would do it. (but hell I've been wrong about so much so far I could be again) The OW originally told my ex that she had no intention of leaving her partner and wanted to work it out with her but still cannot seem to leave my ex alone and refuses the no contact her partner has requested.

 

I could blow this whole thing wide open by contacting the OW's partner and telling her they have met up but I have decided for now to do nothing and stoop to no one else's level. Besides then my ex would forever blame me for the loss of contact which I believe should come from the OW finally figuring out what she wants.

 

I think my ex, K., tried to be there for me when I was depressed but had no idea what to do except to leave me alone. Probably I needed someone to manhandle me and drag me to a doctor. But we had little money and no insurance at the time (which is the reason I did not ask her to marry me because I could not afford to have the ring made and felt bad asking when my financial life was in such disrepair). However she did not speak up and say should would leave unless things changed. When I was trying to reach her I was trying everything I could think of. She just kept doing more of the same which obviously wasn't working and she was afraid to be straight with me because she was thinking she would drive me further away. So her answer was to leave and not tell me. It seems to me she is 47 and ought to know better about a lot of these things. So I'm thinking I should just cut her out of my life. Why does she even deserve to have me around and I do not, repeat DO NOT want to be who she turns to when it goes to crap with the OW. I don't want to know about the OW anymore. I'm at the point where I don't care if karma runs her over anymore. The love I have is so mangled it is hardly recognizable anymore and I doubt I would ever trust her ever again.

 

I was kinda wondering if anyone here who has cheated on their partner actually wanted to keep some form of relationship/friendship with their ex but the ex shut them down after trying as hard as I did. And what if anything they felt about it.

[silktricks]

I can't answer your question, because my circumstances have never exactly matched yours. When I cheated and was terribly contrite and made amends I was also forgiven (eventually).

 

I can, however, tell you that I hope you take care of yourself. It sounds like you are hurting badly. I hope that you move on with your life and completely remove your ex from your thoughts. It sounds to me like she is far too caught up in her own self to be worth the energy it would take to keep up any kind of friendship/relationship.

 

Depression is bad enough to deal with without compounding it.

[syz]

thanks you guys. Actually the pain is somewhat less now than it was this summer. This summer I was just in agony now I'm mainly angry. I've started going back to the gym and running. (I had some weight to lose that I gained during the depression but am back close to my normal weight again) and I am weening myself off the antidepressants. It is my financial situation that is still a disaster for the moment. I would feel a lot better about myself if that were straightened out.

 

I have felt pretty worthless and like a loser. It feels pretty lousy to get left for crumbs from a rich person when you are giving your whole heart but are broke. She says the money has nothing to do with it but lets face it the OW is fun fun fun to be around because she can pay for any bit of fun they want and she has NO financial stress. I believe that 3 weeks across country was as close to fantasy as anyone could get in a non reality based affair. It was like being on vacation the whole time meeting people staying in hotels, banging their brains out. I still have a lot of triggers. I cannot watch people having sex in movies it brings crap up. I stayed in a hotel last weekend with a friend and it up again how they slept together everday. I cannot stand the triggers and the distrust I will probably carry with me into my next R. I resent that the most. I never trusted anyone like I trusted her and part of that was based on the fact that when I met her 7 years ago she was just ending a R and then when we reconnected she was getting out of something in both situations she ended things very responsibly and kindly and with compassion. She never screwed anyone over for money or material things at all. She was always just one of the nicest people I knew. With the exception of her ex husband she had never cheated either and that to me seemed based more on her sexual preference being at issue than the relationship itself. Still it is no excuse how she handled it (she should have told him she was attracted to someone and that the person was a woman not had an affair and let him discover it) and he still holds it over her head with their daughter. So she knows how sh*tty these things are.

 

I cannot understand why I'm the lucky jerk that gets the crap end of her treatment. I think this is why I no longer want her in my life even if she is trying on some level and reaching out for me. She has said she is sorry but I still remember after I found out she was still saying she didn't think I deserved the truth because I would twist it all around into being the reason she left me. So I do not think I want what she is offering. It feels fallow. I think everything feels dead to me and I do not know how to build on this. It is also too soon. She gets exactly what she wants... me when she feels like it, every so often while she still gets her fix from the OW. I'm thinking of this more for myself but I also feel as if I'm the last person she deserves to have in her life for any reason regardless of whether it matters to her or not.

[silktricks]

Yeah, you probably are the last person she deserves in her life. You need to take care of yourself and go out and get yourself some individual counselling.

 

I very hesitantly want to add something, though. I say hesitantly, as I don't want you to get all confused and forgiving, when what I honestly think you most need is to stay angry so that you'll protect yourself.

 

When two people are in a loving and committed relationship and one falls into an extremely bad depression, the other quite often falls into one as well. Is it possible that depression led her into actions that were quite unlike herself?

 

Now, I gotta run. Take care, though!!

[syz]

I do think that is possible and it has crossed my mind. She definitely was acting like she was having a mid life crisis and still is. I was willing to work on all of this with her and showed her many of the changes I made. Of course some of them made her mad as in "why couldn't you do this before I got to this point."

 

She also said she realized she really doesn't want to see me with someone else giving to her what she wanted from me. I said I understood that would feel bad especially if she had wanted these things from me and I had refused or was unable to give them to her but that I had offered it to her and she no longer wanted it. Much of what she wanted from me required I not be depressed anymore. And now that my activity level is back to normal (I'm not tired all the time and lazy) I actually sleep at night now, my irritability is hardly there, I do not freak out about the stupid stuff I was freaking about any longer and my patience is back she resents it to a degree. I do understand that. She also hasn't had to watch me having conversations in her home with the person I f*cked around on her with. She hasn't had to hear me get excited when the OW calls or the tone of my voice change when I answer (the way she used to sound when I called her) so touche.

[syz]

well I finally came to a decision about what to do next and here is the final email by the way I borrowed a bit from one of the posters here.. james I believe on committment because he said what I believe exactly...

 

 

K, I've really tried my hardest to deal with our situation but I still feel like you have left me to clean up an emotional mess that you created. I just can't do it. And the truth is I just can't get over all the lying you've done. You knew how I felt about betrayal and how much it cost me in the past. I have no idea how I can ever trust you or forgive you even though I may want to. You let me think one thing while another was true. You manipulated me and my sense of reality while you gave Leslie the truth. So you say the right things now but you said the right things before when we were together and it amounted to very little. How can I believe you? How can I trust in you? I feel truly abandoned to deal with all of this on my own.

 

I pray for indifference because I think that is the best I will be able to achieve in this situation. The saddest thing is that this was completely avoidable but these were your choices. Somewhere you knew this would be the outcome, you knew the damage, but did it anyway. I feel I am left with nothing of us. I do not really know who you are as hard as I try. On August 18th what I knew to be true about you died right in front of me. The only memories I have now that remain unmolested are the first few months in April and May and the very first weekend we had together in June everything else feels stolen from me by one huge lie. You say you'd take a bullet for me but I do not believe it. You could have protected me from this and didn't and it was easier than laying down your life. I've given this a lot of thought but for now I have to ask that you do not contact me unless it is really important. I will contact you when or if I ever feel ready but for now I do not want this in my life.

 

Below is what I feel about love and marriage I'm sorry it couldn't be you. Maybe one day I will thank you in my heart for letting me go to find it I will just never ever appreciate how you did it and I will never forget it.

 

Love is more than a feeling...it is a choice, decision, and commitment that is based on the initial attraction and feelings of love, respect, and physical attraction I have for a person. If I base marriage just on the feelings of love and the physical desires of sex, I will fail. I must go deeper and build the marriage on the kind of love that says, I made a decision to commit myself to you because as I have gotten to know you, I see so many things that I admire, love and respect. I also know that as I get to know you, there will be things that I do not like. But we both have committed our love and fidelity to one another. This decision does not fluctuate with feelings. No, it will stay steady. When the feelings of love grow dim due to anger or frustration, then my commitment to you is the same. And when the mask of anger disappears, those feelings will again appear.

 

I believe that without commitment as the basis for marriage, it will fail when the feelings of love grow weak. The assumption will be that since there are no feelings, then there is no love. And since love has left, it can never return. And if it cannot return, then our marriage has failed.

 

However, if commitment is the basis, then when those feelings grow weak, both partners will know that although we don't feel love today, we can bring it back with actions of love.

 

Please do not respond to this it requires only that you read it and respect my wishes for once. I really did consider you one of my best friends and I loved you but the truth is you walked out of my life a long time ago. I wish you the best. -C

 

I wonder has anyone here ever dealt with someone going totally dark on them and refusing to talk with them? Believe me I wake up daily with choice words.. I'm still processing a ton of anger but know I will work througth it eventually. I just figure silence is deadly... I will not talk with her.

 

On the plus side I got a great job to suppliment my income as an acupuncturist (which has had me against a wall financially and why I got depressed and hurt my R to begin with) so hopefully this will give me a cushion while I figure out my life.