Do threats really work?

[How I ended up Here]

I am so glad I stumbled upon this site because I am really perplexed...

 

I have been seeing a seperated man for 3 months now, met 8 months ago but the relationship has actually been consumated in the past three months and though he had not moved out of home he was in the process of seperation. We fell head over heels in love and realised this and shared the knowledge months before we got physical. the relationship has been tumultuous because we have been living a love that cannot be due to his never ending process of moving out. Call me stupid but I believe him when tells me he has wanted out for a long time but just does not know how to make the move without hurting his wife. His wife is away on work a LOT (months at a time) and he has tried to move out several times and cannot do it...and here is why. She guilt trips him into staying. she begs him and cries and has even threatened to end her life if he leaves her. She has told him that she is afraid of ending up alone (she is still young early thirties) and just constantly guilt trips him.

 

I feel terrible about this but the only reason I let the rel get physical is because he moved out, but when she got back the last time she flipped out and threatened to do something crazy. I recently found out about this because we had a big run in due to the fact that I get frustrated because I keep trusting his actions but then I doubt him. NOw I know that men in these positions say whatever they can to have their cake etc. but I feel deep down in my core that this is not his case. He is a man who has a good heart stuck in a relationship that was dead for years now, he has even gone as far to say that the marriage was probably a mistake (lack of communication, compatibility, and common interests are the missing elements and he was contemplating out for a long time before we even met, as he describes it he was dead long before the seperation started.

 

But here we are him out at a fully furnished apartment which he has moved into but back home consoling her and contemplating staying with her just a little longer to "help her understand" that the rel. is over. He tells me he does not know how to break free because it breaks his heart to move on knowing that she is so delicate and knowing that he will have me to move on with (which he cannot wait to start our life together) and she will be left alone. The guilt kills him, of having happiness while seeing here suffer. They did not have bad problems it was just a matter of the rel. being wrongly matched from the getgo.

 

My question is, what can be done in this case when a spouse guilt trips a person to stay with them and threatens to do crazy things to themselves and he is just not love her anymore but does not want to hurt her.

Now I know people will say that it's pretty black and white and that he is full of it...(and beleive it does seem this way) but let's just suppose for a split second that what he is telling is the truth, how can he handle this. And by the way they are going to couples councelling and the councellor suggested he try to give her a second chance but he does not tell her that he is in love with someone else.

 

WOW what a mess. I have tried infinite times to break off with him knowing this but I love this man and I want to be with him but not at this expense. I never wanted to hurt anyone and if I knew it would be this hard I would not have let it get this far. I feel guilt everyday for being in this situation but moreso now that I know this woman is so messed up over him leaving. Any words of advice would be greatly appreciated.

He asks me what to do and I cannot answer without sounding selfish so I am a wrong person to ask.

[pureinheart]

Oh man...my heart goes out to YOU...I have seen this type of situation a lot...in fact the guys that hit on me at work start talking about the ex and right there I know NO WAY....one was really bad, his ex is always sick and has him run all of her errands....these situations are pathetic.

 

He sounds like he might be a co-dependant....wow these two people have had you caught up in their roller coaster....

 

You know, he may never be free of her and if this is the case you will always have her shadow ....wait till she finds out about you....if you think the games are bad now you haven't seen anything yet....

 

Please keep in mind the extent of her "sickness"....he has been living with this and chose it...people in their right minds don't choose this type of thing.....I think you got caught in their sick relationship....it happened to me and I was sick right along with them.

 

Is it a possibility to cut this off until he is free and clear....let him clean up his own mess....and if he REALLY loves YOU, he will do it fast and not procrastinate like he has been doing.....

[frannie]

Well just on reading what you've put here. If he's going to couples counselling with her, and hasn't told her he is in love with someone else, and hasn't really moved out properly, I can't really see how this is all her fault, or any sign of 'sickness' in her. She's just trying to work through what's happening.

 

Not only is he not being honest with her, he's giving her mixed messages and adding to the confusion.

 

There's nothing particularly kind in his actions (although he may not want to hurt anyone, but that's not the same thing). He's just making a fuzzy mess of everything. Is he sure of what he wants to do? Then the kindest thing is to tell her it's over and let her start rebuilding her life without offering her this false hope.

 

(just my opinion, based on what I've read here).

[bonehead]

As a man who has been in his position I can tell you YES THEY DO WORK.

 

Please keep in mind the extent of her "sickness"....he has been living with this and chose it...people in their right minds don't choose this type of thing.....I think you got caught in their sick relationship....it happened to me and I was sick right along with them.

 

People in there right mind also wouldnt chose a physicaly abusive realtionship but they do have a hard time leaving them.

 

The type of abuse I went through is even harder to leave because there are no outward signs that I could say " SEE WHAT SHE DOES!!! " It also gets into your mind even more then being hit. H**l if she had hit me i could have defended myself.

 

How, I have a question for you. I know you more then likely dont know but what was HER childhood like?

[Romeo Must Die]

Seperation is not a divorce. It puts us through all the motions of a divorce (legally seperating our residence and finances) when the marriage is in jeopardy, prior to divorce. It's just a legal formality and with it, your MM is just entertaining the idea of divorce. He hasnt even really moved out yet even though he is supposed to, but MM always ends up back with her. This pain is a warning sign, pay attention to your gut feelings.

 

I would caution you that a lot will happen in the next six months. I know you arent happy about it, but you are sharing him with another woman (his wife) and wether or not he is happy with her is also irrelevant to you. Stay out of it because its not your divorce. It's between two people. Not everybody. The trouble is, most times its the MM who isnt satisfied with himself. He's messed-up big time and sometimes they feel so guilty that they feel like they dont even want to be married.

 

AS a BW, I would feel (and have felt) like dying when my husband had an affair & I thought it was over. I filed for seperation and I moved out of the marital home, but he was with me everyday. We sat at my kitchen table of my little cottage and talked about breaking up and I helped him fill out the forms for the lawyer and his job applications for him and he would give me a check for the week, but we ended up on the couch. If he was around me all the time, I couldnt get used to my freedom I was still married in my mind the whole time. He gave me his truck, but it had a string attached so I bought a car and he still acted like he was still my old man, "Honey why didnt you ask me about this?" Woah, Honey? I thought I wasnt your honey anymore? and he would say something like he always loved me. I planted a garden and he would come over and always tell me what to do and what not to do and bitching me out for renting a tiller. One time I was laying out in a bikini and he would not leave, making comments about my rear end. He bought bikes with the OW but he would be over at my house everyday taking his kids for rides.

 

I dont think it's the BW that is making him feel guilty, obviously, he does that all to himself. And you know what, howiendeduphere, maybe he should feel guilty. He does owe her something. When you are married, you cant just quit your family whenever you want to. It is much more complicated than finances and kids. This is his partner and the woman he goes to bed with everynight and there will always be something between them that you will never understand.

 

The BW isnt bringing this into your life, the MM is. She isnt guilt tripping him or trapping him. He is there because he chooses to be, and on this subject I am in your defence because he is weak minded and can not and will not defend you. However, MM is with his wife and naturally, they belong together (they made a commitment to each other) and his marriage covenant comes first and you know that. What you dont know is that many marriages do reconcille through hardship. Its worth it for them to save what is most precious to them, through counselling, and you arent even a part of that world.

 

Enevitably, one of you is going to get thrown under the bus and I think it will be you. I dont mean to hurt you, and if what I say upsets you or anybody here I will back off the subject, but I feel as long as the both of you are fighting to keep him around and you keep believing what you want to believe, then I guess the MM never has to make that fateful decision. You have him for now, but it wont last. Protect your heart. Everybody deserves to have somebody to love who loves them back the same, but he is not the guy. I dont doubt your affections for him, it's his true feelings that are in question.

 

[Romeo Must Die]

PS bonehead struck a nerve with me because that is something my husband used to say when he was cheating. MM can diagnose you without any proper credentials. Like, Aww, See what she does? She is the devil! and Poor little old me! Well, perhaps it's even true but I wasnt out sleeping around behind his back either. I wasnt that crazy, feel me.

 

In my opinion, The MM always call their STBX wives a psycho, crazy, insane, they're out of their minds. I've heard alot of MM say that about the OW too, omg she will kill herself if I leave. It's just a line of shyt. It just makes everything seem so neat and clean for MM when they have something to BLAME for their bad behavior. It covers up all the lies. It's almost belivable because you would want to think it was true, otherwise that would make MM a monster.

 

[FlyingHigh]

In my opinion, The MM always call their STBX wives a psycho, crazy, insane, they're out of their minds. I've heard alot of MM say that about the OW too, omg she will kill herself if I leave. It's just a line of shyt. It just makes everything seem so neat and clean for MM when they have something to BLAME for their bad behavior. It covers up all the lies. It's almost belivable because you would want to think it was true, otherwise that would make MM a monster.

Yep! I completely agree with you on this one!

 

My stbx is passive but he was extroverted when it came to describing how it was my fault that he was "unhappy".

 

The excuses your MM gave you, like any cheating spouse always starts with these classic intros:

 

1. I'm married BUT I've been very unhappy.

2. I'm married BUT my wife and I are seperating (even if still living at home with wife)

3. I'm married BUT my wife and I have been living seperate lives...

blah-blah-blah.

 

What all this excuses really mean is that "I'm very married, but I want to cheat on my wife with you. So how about it? Just don't expect much in return because after all...I'm very married".

 

Then they meet you, the OW who is equally "unhappy" living a single life or married, but you want a selfish quick fix and before you know it WHAM!!! you two are having sex like bunnies and call it puppy love.

 

Then 1-2 years later, your MM is still married and never fulfilled his promise of leaving his for you. So you hang on, hopelessly waiting for your MM prince charming to waltz into your life and carry you off into the sunset. And now you're here, perplexed as to why he hasn't left his supposedly "UNHAPPY" marriage albeit he moved in a furnished castle at a different address.

 

You seem like an intelligent woman, why would you want a man, MM of all people, who doesn't have the balls to make up his mind? He's been stringing you along and his wife. Hell, he already did you all this time, why didn't he just moved in with you? Why bother with the "formality" of waiting to divorce his wife to move in with you? Is it because it will make him less "guilty" and feel like he'd be doing the "right" thing? What's right about cheating?

 

My stbx told his OW the same. Kicked H out, and to this day, he's yet to fulfill his promise to the OW. Whatever he (my stbx) and your MM, promised the OW....they do what they have to do to "pacify" you just to let you hang on. And it's working, isn't?

 

Here's another "smoke screen" your MM is not telling you. If his wife travels, a woman with this type of career is more than unlikely to be "suicidal". It's an excuse. If anything else, these type of women are usually the opposite---independent and ambitious.

 

Do threats really work? NEVER!! If anything else, the backfire against those making threats!

 

My stbx OW threatened that if he didn't divorce or leave me for her, she threatened would come over to our house and hurt me. That's the only reason why I found out because he was forced to.

 

And cheating ALWAYS backfire on those who cheated.

 

Life is a boomerang. Whatever you do that you know in your heart is wrong, it will come back to you. Whatever you do that is right, it will come back to you tenfold.

[bonehead]

PS bonehead struck a nerve with me because that is something my husband used to say when he was cheating. MM can diagnose you without any proper credentials. Like, Aww, See what she does? She is the devil! and Poor little old me! Well, perhaps it's even true but I wasnt out sleeping around behind his back either. I wasnt that crazy, feel me.

 

In my opinion, The MM always call their STBX wives a psycho, crazy, insane, they're out of their minds. I've heard alot of MM say that about the OW too, omg she will kill herself if I leave. It's just a line of shyt. It just makes everything seem so neat and clean for MM when they have something to BLAME for their bad behavior. It covers up all the lies. It's almost belivable because you would want to think it was true, otherwise that would make MM a monster.

 

Im not saying it justifies an affair, she asked if threats work.

 

As far as you saying its a line that can be ignored, then I guess the total line on the bill from the hospital after her overdose was can be ignored also?

[Romeo Must Die]

and If I had a quarter for every angry divorced guy with hospital bills. I'd be all set.

 

[bonehead]

if I had one for every spouse ( husband or wife ) who has used some form of emotional manipulation to FORCE a spouse to stay.

 

Why do you find it so hard to believe that a woman can actually be abusive?

[whichwayisup]

You're in a real messy situation, no doubt about it. If you don't protect your heart, you're going to get hurt! I say this because he's not really separated, and it may take a long time for him to leave and even if he does, he needs time to be on his own. Expecting any stable and safe relationship from him would be a mistake because most can't jump out of a marriage and right into another relationship, start a new life so quickly.

 

If you can, end it and tell him to call you when he's out for good, then possibly consider dating him casually until he's ready to make things more serious. Until that happens, things will be as they are now. And please, don't put all your trust and faith in him..He's been lying to his wife, so don't think he won't lie to you. Try not to let your emotions get in the way.

[FlyingHigh]

and If I had a quarter for every angry divorced guy with hospital bills. I'd be all set.

 

Bwaaaahaaaa-haaaaa:laugh: :laugh:

 

My stbx and I had our on 9/11 this year. That was the last time he'd ever lie in front of my face. Threw a glass of water in his face, then my favorite flower vase on the floor (never done that before! Damn I missed that vase!) and the ba$tard called 911 accusing me of "domestic violence". But it backfired! :laugh: He's 6'4 230, I'm 5'3 105. Good riddens! And while he packed, the cop who was talking to me was telling me a joke and we were laughing as hubby carried his clothes in a laundry basket. It feels great to be free of a lying ba$tard!! Can't wait to get rid of his las tname from mine!

 

He was escorted by cops as he packed his crap in full view of my neighbors who all know he cheated. The neighborhood kids asked if he went to jail. :laugh: I've got great neighbors! Love em! They look out after the house when I travel for work and couple of neighbors watch the dog I rescued last year which my ********* of husband used to walk for a long time as an excuse to call his mistress. Hell, even his mistress knew all about the dog!!!

[Romeo Must Die]

then you could afford to pay for the hospital bills BH. So lets call a truce then, before you lose your shirt. lol.

 

[frannie]

if I had one for every spouse ( husband or wife ) who has used some form of emotional manipulation to FORCE a spouse to stay.

 

Why do you find it so hard to believe that a woman can actually be abusive?

 

If your facts don't fit the prevailing theory... they will be ignored.

[bonehead]

But I will agree that it does make for a " good sounding? " line. Its easy to use and as an OW?OM it would be hard to disprove since you dont interact with the BS.

 

But threats do work at times. Though if a BS is making threats like that I for one would be worried about his/her mental health and wouldnt want to stay in a relationship with the MP.

 

But please dont just " Blow off " the prospect of an abusive woman. You have NO IDEA the fights I have had to go through to secure my childrens emotional wellbeing do to their mothers issues.

 

All I was asking for was her to get into therepy before we had shared custody, but her colors came through well enough that I have full custody and her visitation is supervised because of how emotionaly abusive she can be.

[bonehead]

this attitude that makes it hard for men to get out of abusive realtionships. No one will believe it.

[frannie]

But I will agree that it does make for a " good sounding? " line. Its easy to use and as an OW?OM it would be hard to disprove since you dont interact with the BS.

 

But threats do work at times. Though if a BS is making threats like that I for one would be worried about his/her mental health and wouldnt want to stay in a relationship with the MP.

 

But please dont just " Blow off " the prospect of an abusive woman. You have NO IDEA the fights I have had to go through to secure my childrens emotional wellbeing do to their mothers issues.

 

All I was asking for was her to get into therepy before we had shared custody, but her colors came through well enough that I have full custody and her visitation is supervised because of how emotionaly abusive she can be.

 

Women can be absolutely as abusive as any man, perhaps not AS physically (but yes, even that), certainly emotionally and verbally abusive.

 

"If a BS is making threats like that I for one would be worried about his/her mental health and wouldn't want to stay in a relationship with the MP"

 

I think that's a fair enough statement. Sick people generally have relationships with sick people. If there is so much drama, then people really need to get into therapy and deal with the causes...

 

I can't believe the amount of drama, death-threats, suicide attempts, trashing of property, stalking, and other behaviour that gets talked about on here at times.

[frannie]

this attitude that makes it hard for men to get out of abusive realtionships. No one will believe it.

 

It's not all that easy for women, either. But what you say is so true.

[noforgiveness]

Women can be absolutely as abusive as any man, perhaps not AS physically (but yes, even that), certainly emotionally and verbally abusive.

 

"If a BS is making threats like that I for one would be worried about his/her mental health and wouldn't want to stay in a relationship with the MP"

 

I think that's a fair enough statement. Sick people generally have relationships with sick people. If there is so much drama, then people really need to get into therapy and deal with the causes...

 

I can't believe the amount of drama, death-threats, suicide attempts, trashing of property, stalking, and other behaviour that gets talked about on here at times.

 

and what do you think will happen when your Married mans WIFE finds out about you?

[frannie]

and what do you think will happen when your Married mans WIFE finds out about you?

 

Are you saying that such behaviour is normal and to be expected? Because I don't believe that's the case.

 

By coincidence, two friends of mine have just had similar events in their lives. One friend's brother has just left his wife to go and move right in with another woman. Shocked everyone. No physical drama so far. My next door neighbour's brother in law has also recently left my neighbour's sister to go and move straight in with his OW. Again, as far as I know, no suicides, death threats or anything similar.

 

What are you suggesting would happen to me if my MM's wife discovered HE was having an affair?

[noforgiveness]

 

What are you suggesting would happen to me if my MM's wife discovered HE was having an affair?

 

I don't know why don't you tell her and find out.

[frannie]

I don't know why don't you tell her and find out.

 

?

 

I'm not sure where you're going with this, to be honest.

[noforgiveness]

?

 

I'm not sure where you're going with this, to be honest.

 

there you go. You got it. TO BE HONEST...

goahead be honest. Tell her or better yet tell him your telling her...

[How I ended up Here]

Thank so much everyone for your well thought out answers and for sharing a little bit of your own stories! I can apprecite both sides of the coin given all the views brought forth here.

 

What really stuck out was the comment made by someone that said people who have affairs really are not about their spouses but more about themselves. While I did suspect this already it really hit home to see it spelled out. He has been going to therapy on his own since about 5 months into our acquaintance and he has recently told me that this whole ordeal was a lot deeper than what he was going through on the surface. That it was very much so about him and his place in life. When I first met him I had asked why if had been with someone for almost ten years (married 3) did he not have a child with his wife? He was always very evasive about this question as he was about a lot of things in his life with her eh never really spoke of her at all except to say realtively good things (that also I thought was strange that he had nothing bad to say about her). I recently found out it was because he had been questioning their union for a long time and he held off for fear of being 50 and feeling like his life passed him by with someone that was not meant to be for him. Once children are brought then there was no way he would have a choice.

 

Anyway I beleive him that what happened to him with me had never happend to him before he has never EVER cheated before nor fallen dated more than one woman. But his current situation is that his wife is away a lot, as I said months at a time for work so I wondered if it was not just a case of him wanting for fill a void. But the thing is that when I met him she was not travelling at all but he was always alone. The guy goes out to places alone and was ALWAYS available. ALWAYS. It was bizzare to see a married man be so avaialble all the time. What wife is so absent from a man's life? I don't comprehend that?

 

The other thing that struck a cord form your answers was the idea that women are abusive too. He has never said much about her but the little he has told me it's been to describe her as a strong serious very professional type "whatever THAT means!?!?" Well this was always used to describe how different they were and how wrongly matched they were. Even the way they met he described as just "drifted into marriage, met as roomates neevr went throught that WOW in love/infatuation stage and drifted into dating then into marriage." I don't have any idea what type of rel. they have, really as one person said, as he lies to her I am POSITIVE he also lies to me. I have said this to him a million times. But if I were to believe it, it does sound like he is the type of guy that would be easily lead by others. I can see this of him professionally as well. I work on a side project together and this is how we met, and I see the way he is with people he is just somewhat of a push over. I make him sound like not much of a catch but he is a man I feel deepy for because we have SO much in common and we are so alike, execpt the pushover part I am so far gone the opposite I can come across a bit heartless at times in that respect, but I am not. Otherwise we are two in the same. WE share the exact same interests, come from totally similar ubringings (something he does not share with her at all) and have the same child hood experiences (we come from the same country, towns apart, though living in NA now)

So culturally we share a lot. I dunnow sometimes I feel like I make excuses for him because I want to beleive what we have.

 

I just don't know why a person would move out and make the move to do what he needs to to start a new life if his intentions were to have his cake and eat it too. It amazes me how this woman is acting like this since he had always described he as very together, and someone who "gets it" and is level headed. Last week he told me he was begging him crying not to leave him because she was terrified of bieng alone. I cannot imagine saying that to a man wanting to leave me even if I felt that I cannot fathom the idea of those words coming out of my mouth but I guess it works. NOt sure for what but it works.

 

I would like to explain that the couples therapy started a few weeks ago to deal with her state of begging and crying and general depression. As he describes it they are going "so that he can let her down gently, to let the therapist help him convince her it through" but it does not work at all and now the last session it appears the therapist told him to at least work on the marriage one las time to see if it can be revived, and I don;t understand WHY on earth a thearpist would say that unless he is sitting there agreeing that there is still something there worth fighting for. Last week he looked me in the eyes and told me there is nothing ther other than the care you would feel for a friend. He has not been into her for a very long time, they have drifted to seperate lives for a very long time and he is just not into her as a spouse any longer he does not even feel like they have anything in common and he is just bored with always has been always will be. He cares about her as a human being but does not want to share a life with her which is why he moved out. I just don't get then why she has so much hold on him and why he won't put his foot down?

 

PS what is a BS and WS?

[LucreziaBorgia]

PS what is a BS and WS?

 

BS = betrayed spouse

WS = wayward spouse