I met my MM last night!! A question for all of you too.

[jerseyblue29eyes]

I went back home yesterday for Thanksgiving and got to meet my MM! We met at a Borders bookstore and just had to say the sparks were flying but he was so sweet. I realized then how much I was into him and he brought me some flowers--my favorites--and he remembered what they were from 2 years ago when we first talked online.

 

We had a wonderful time, having tea, looking at books and talking for 5 hours!

 

We talked about him and his W, me and him, where he wants to take our "relationship" and what I want out of life. He explained to me that he stills loves him W, but is no longer in love with her. He told me they tried marriage counseling, but realized it is slowly dying. He told me the only reason he is staying in the marriage for right now is that he wants his children, in their teens, to have both a Mom and Dad for a year or 2. I respect his decision, he knows it. He told me to have patience with him if I feel the same way.

 

My quesions are the following: Obviously, my MM and I are emotionally involved, yesterday I know he wants more. He was rubbing my shoulders and kissed my cheek but he seems to be totally comfortable in that situation, and I felt all these emotions running through me. He told me he loves my heart and that I have his heart.

 

My question is, when he walked me to my car and gave me a kiss on the forehead goodnight, he told me to promise him something. He told me I should let love come to me. What does that mean to any of you??

 

Thank you for your input! Off for Thanksgiving at Grandma's soon. Happy Thanksgiving to all of you also and keep listening to your hearts.

[LucreziaBorgia]

He told me I should let love come to me. What does that mean to any of you??

 

I'm sure he cares for you, maybe even loves you but don't confuse that with a willingness to leave his life for you. He is basically telling you that, but making it sound like its some sort of advantage for you, when really it is set up so that this works out entirely in his favor.

 

It means he wants to be the one to set the pace of your relationship. It will have to be entirely on his terms, or not at all.

 

He explained to me that he stills loves him W, but is no longer in love with her. He told me they tried marriage counseling, but realized it is slowly dying. He told me the only reason he is staying in the marriage for right now is that he wants his children, in their teens, to have both a Mom and Dad for a year or 2.

 

I'm not surprised he told you this. Lots of MM's tell their OW this. It makes him look more sympathetic and in need of your love and attention. If he makes himself out to the be the victim of a loveless marriage, he can be more sure that you will stay with him and meet the needs he is telling you he doesn't get at home.

 

He told me to have patience with him if I feel the same way.

 

Translation: I intend to stay married and want you to have you on the side, on my own terms and conditions. As long as you stay entirely available to me, and do not push your own needs and wants on to me, I'll stay with you. I may or may not decide to leave in the future, and I just bought myself a couple of years to have my fun without having to worry about breaking up my family.

 

As long as you are willing to keep your needs and wants to yourself, be discreet, let him set the emotional pace, and enable him to stay married you should have no problems with your relationship with this man.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

My question is, when he walked me to my car and gave me a kiss on the forehead goodnight, he told me to promise him something. He told me I should let love come to me. What does that mean to any of you??

 

He sounds like a creep to me.

[whichwayisup]

Question for you - DO you want to be "just" the OW? Will it be enough for you?

 

No holidays together, rarely will he spend time with you on your terms (maybe in the beginning he might), you'll be excluded from his family, friends, neighbours, co-workers - You'll be his secret romance on the side...Yet, he claims to be inlove, soulmates, whatever. But, he has no intention of leaving his wife.

 

Knowhowlovefeels is right, he's a creep!!! And I'll add this - He's selfish and not thinking at all, about you, his wife or children. If he was, he wouldn't be screwing around on his family, he'd be going to marriage counselling to fix his marriage.

 

Don't believe all that he is telling you, THINK with your head, not your heart. Emotions you're feeling are real, but they can cloud your judgement (or judgment asAmericans say) and not let you see the full picture here.

 

Obviously it's up to you, but think outside the box too. Be prepared for if and when the time comes his wife finds out, and it will only be a matter of time seeing as you two are out in public being affectionate. It's a small world.

[sarme]

It means to basically to let yourself fall in love again, to open yourself to another opportunity because he ain't going nowhere. As they all do, because of their own selfishness. When it's not the kids, it's the history they have together, or financial or WHATEVER they will choose to make an excuse NOT to make the move. They are selfish pricks that want it all and as long as you allow yourself to be the escape he will keep taking advantange, his way of making it seem like he is less of a creep is to tell you "to open your heart" in otherwords, don't refuse love if it seeks you out...to go out and date. What a loser!

[noforgiveness]

are you insane or just extremely selfish? He is married with kids. Why would you even consider it. Tell him to be a man and either work on his marriage or get out of it and then and only then can he speak with you again.

 

Do you really want to be partly responsible for tearing those kids lives apart when the wife finds out about you???????

[jerseyblue29eyes]

How am I being selfish? I met him at Borders to have tea and talk. I did NOT make love to him.

 

If you read my original post on this board, I am always on him to either walk or work on his marriage. I don't like him to be sad. He took my suggestion and was going to marriage counseling. I have never said one negative remark about his wife.

 

I would never come between his children and their relationship. I have been "involved" emotionally with him for 2 years.

 

I think by him telling me to let love look for me, he was putting my feelings and what I want out of life first.

 

We have nothing to be ashamed of. He has not broken his wedding vows, since when can't a MM not have female friends?

 

Was the kiss of the cheek or the forehead over the line? I do not think so.

 

Maybe, we are meant to be good friends only. I know not to cross a certain line with him.

 

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

We have nothing to be ashamed of. He has not broken his wedding vows, since when can't a MM not have female friends?

 

Was the kiss of the cheek or the forehead over the line? I do not think so.

 

Maybe, we are meant to be good friends only. I know not to cross a certain line with him.

 

 

My god. You are delusional. Feel the high now... the crash will come sooner than you think.

[whichwayisup]

How am I being selfish? I met him at Borders to have tea and talk. I did NOT make love to him.

 

Your words...

 

. I realized then how much I was into him

 

my MM and I are emotionally involved,

 

You cannot be "good friends" with him, because of how you feel.

 

You've already crossed the lines with him, by having inappropriate conversations, letting him talk about your relationship, where it is heading.

 

A married person CAN have friends of the opposite sex when there are NO romantic feelings. You both have crossed that line and talked about it. You know this, so please don't justify it.

 

The more you allow him into your life, you're also pushing other (single) men away - Meaning, you're gonna miss the boat with someone else because you're into the MM. Your heart won't allow you to fall for someone else as long as you're still with the MM...Even as a good friend.

 

Hmm, would his wife approve of the friendship? Most married people who have opposite sex friends, include their spouses in the friendship too. They don't hide it and pour out feelings and get romantic.

[LucreziaBorgia]

since when can't a MM not have female friends?

 

I know not to cross a certain line with him.

 

You aren't simply 'friends' (you are partners in an emotional affair) and you already did cross the line. Sex is just a technicality at this point.

 

Here is something I posted earlier about emotional infidelity and why it is worse than just sex:

 

Personally, I would think that the emotional cheating was worse. With a ONS - its just sex. No time for fantasy building, no time for 'falling in love', no time for a building of an actual relationship. While it is hurtful to find out your partner has shared the sex act/their bodies with someone else, it can be far more hurtful to find out that they shared their heart with someone else.

 

An emotional affair can be far worse, because it does allow time for the building of a fantasy relationship. It does allow time for 'falling in love'. It does allow time for the building of an actual relationship. Trust builds between the OP and the MM/MW as they share confidences, bitch about each other's SO, and fall for each other as they compare notes about the "misery" they feel in thier primary relationships. As the emotional affair builds, so does sexual tension and the OP and MM/MW begin to desire each other on a level far more intangible than the blind desire of a ONS. They steal from their primary relationships and give that love/trust/desire to someone else.

 

ONS is mechanical swapping of bodily fluids. New p*ssy meeting new d*ck. No more, no less. EA is a swapping of emotions - something that leads to an actual relationship, which is devastating to the primary relationships.

 

What you have is an actual relationship. No use in trying to dress it up as "just friends" simply because you haven't had sex yet.

[jerseyblue29eyes]

I am searching my heart and do understand what you all are saying.

 

I have pushed other guys aside for him but my last boyfriend has been asking me to start fresh with him and yes, he knows about the MM.

 

Maybe I am a bit naive, but yesterday I think I showed what I am all about.

 

No SEX with a married man and my MM knows it.

 

So, the choice is his.

 

I think I know my choice now.

 

Thank you all for sharing your wisdom.

[whichwayisup]

I would never come between his children and their relationship. I have been "involved" emotionally with him for 2 years.

 

You ARE though. You just can't see this. How the heck is he supposed to focus on his marriage and his wife with you still in the picture? You both have some feelings for eachother, so how is that helping his marriage? I'm sure his wife would think that you're not helping him! If you really want him happy and his marriage to work, you'd say goodbye and let him go. You wouldn't allow yourself, or let him talk to you in such a personal and intimate way.

 

He has not broken his wedding vows

 

Yes, he has. You just don't see it that way because you don't want to. Just because you two haven't had 'sex' yet, he has broken his vows emotionally.

 

where he wants to take our "relationship"

 

Is that how you perceive it, or did he say that? See, friendship is completley different than relationship.

 

I think by him telling me to let love look for me, he was putting my feelings and what I want out of life first.

 

Aww, how sweet of him, to be considerate!

 

He told me to have patience with him if I feel the same way.

See, he is baiting you, hoping you'll 'wait' for him. Imagine if you were married and your husband said that to another woman? I'm sure if you put yourself in his wife's shoes, and your husband was doing what he was doing, you WOULD feel that he was doing something wrong, going against his marriage vows. And, I'm sure you would also wonder WHY on earth the OW would be trying to befriend your husband!! If you can honestly say and believe that you would have NO problem (if you were married) with your husband (if you were married) to have a female friend who had feelings for your husband and your husband having feelings for her, with them being friends, I won't say another word.

[jerseyblue29eyes]

I do know the difference between a friendship and a relationship.

 

Maybe this meeting was a blessing in disguise.

 

By the way, he used the word relationship, not me. I consider him a friend, nothing more.

 

Thanks again for opening my eyes to your experiences on this subject of emotional affairs, etc...Maybe another reason the divorce rate is so high.

 

I think I will take accept my last boyfriend's invitation to visit him and the city while in town!

 

Wish me luck!

[Bobby Brady]

What's MM?

 

Oh wait, Married Man?

[Bobby Brady]

He explained to me that he stills loves him W, but is no longer in love with her.

 

 

My question is, when he walked me to my car and gave me a kiss on the forehead goodnight, he told me to promise him something. He told me I should let love come to me. What does that mean to any of you??

 

I hate that line, "I love but not in love..." blah blah. Life is not all about feelings. Have some integrity (This is directed to cheating scum guy).

 

As for your question, I think he was telling you to back off OR find someone else. Are you pursuing him a little aggressively? Maybe he doesn't want to be cruel but at the same time, does not want to see you.

[Bobby Brady]

You ARE though. You just can't see this. How the heck is he supposed to focus on his marriage and his wife with you still in the picture? You both have some feelings for eachother, so how is that helping his marriage? I'm sure his wife would think that you're not helping him! If you really want him happy and his marriage to work, you'd say goodbye and let him go. You wouldn't allow yourself, or let him talk to you in such a personal and intimate way.

 

 

 

Yes, he has. You just don't see it that way because you don't want to. Just because you two haven't had 'sex' yet, he has broken his vows emotionally.

 

 

 

Is that how you perceive it, or did he say that? See, friendship is completley different than relationship.

 

 

 

Aww, how sweet of him, to be considerate!

 

 

See, he is baiting you, hoping you'll 'wait' for him. Imagine if you were married and your husband said that to another woman? I'm sure if you put yourself in his wife's shoes, and your husband was doing what he was doing, you WOULD feel that he was doing something wrong, going against his marriage vows. And, I'm sure you would also wonder WHY on earth the OW would be trying to befriend your husband!! If you can honestly say and believe that you would have NO problem (if you were married) with your husband (if you were married) to have a female friend who had feelings for your husband and your husband having feelings for her, with them being friends, I won't say another word.

Yes yes yes. Totally baiting and manipulating her. Great points!

[puddleofmud]

This man is most likely experienced at having affairs. He knows just what to say, does he not? It is the common rhetoric/manipulation of persons seeking cake with lots of frosting and ice cream on the side.

I perceive another twist on his statement regarding your letting love "find you"--he may have been seeking for you to say, "no, you are the one I want" thus sealing his thoughts that you will be available to him and only him. Or, that you would say that the BF is not that important to you or that you are not dating anyone, thus available to prey upon--which is what he is doing. Clever of him and he could most likely be even more clever about "playing with your head" when needed should a physical affair ensue. Ewwwww! Can you imagine that w/ someone like him?

I am so glad to know that you are having more constructive thoughts about this!

Hang in there and stay strong!

[pureinheart]

We talked about him and his W, me and him, where he wants to take our "relationship" and what I want out of life.

 

Hey Jersey....

 

There it is right there....

 

Cakemen are famous for creating delusions and manipulating all facets of the relationship....the delusion I was in was unreal.

 

The OW/Cakeman senerio can take all kinds of twists and turns, of which none will be in your favor......sometimes the OW turns into the perverbial doormat, when this happens her life begins a pattern of behavior that is discerned by the people around her even if they know about the affair or not....they in turn treat her poorly.

 

The Cakeman is seen as alpha male and envied by his peers....

 

More often then not the OW is targeted by all parties involved as "the problem" and gets the s***end of this deal.

 

Cakeman are masters at manipulation and do get caught by their wives more than once, they know how to manipulate all involved to continue the madness. They are able to size their perspectives up quickly in order to devise a delusion that fits them.

 

Cakemen will not leave their wives for the simple fact that no one else will put up with the deception.

 

The Cake situation I just got out of, this man has been caught cheeting on his wife time and time again and instead of leaving him she has him followed, screens all bills, phone records and monitors every move he makes. Her life revolves (and the kids too, they are all grown) around monitoring, and investigating him.

 

They both get off on the chaos and the chase...

 

Please be careful....cakemen are capable of creating a delusion that could really hurt you in the end....if someone would have told me that I would be in a situation such as this I would have told them they were crazy....

 

Take Care and happy Thanksgiving....for me, I have multitudes to be thankful for.....

[pureinheart]

Puddle....I just read your post and I used alot of terms that you did...didn't copy....but did copy one term...Cakeman....

 

In searching the internet for answers came across an article on cakeman...it's really good....can't remember how I got there but think if the word cakeman is used it can be found.....

[puddleofmud]

Please let me know where this could be found!

FYI: I had never knew of the term "cake-man" until I found this site but I am very interested in all facets of such.

Considering I "had" one, supposedly! More eeeeeew! and the more I learn the more I am repulsed, sister!

And being replused means being better able to to be objective!

Hugs to you.

[pureinheart]

[FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#800000]Here it is Puddle.....and much ((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))) to you too....we are free!!!!!!!![/COLOR][/FONT]

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[FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#800000]http://www.gloryb.com/articles/cakeman.html[/COLOR][/FONT]

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[FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#800000]Cakeman

[/COLOR][/FONT]Dr. Roger A. Rhoades

 

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There is no telling how many men at any given time are cheating on their wives. To get an accurate reading would be almost impossible. You would have to ask men about something that they normally lie about and then expect them to tell the truth.

 

Probably the best way to get an accurate reading is to ask men how many of them feel they have been driven to an affair by their wives. I am sure men would be more than glad to own up to being a victim of circumstance and not having been the bad guy in the situation.

As long as men keep looking to blame someone or something for their infidelity, women will be lost on how to change their cheating ways.

 

It is hard to say how many men get into a marriage for all the wrong reasons.

• They want to have someone to have their babies.
  
• They want to fit in with other people in their social circle.
  
• They want to have someone to be at home with them, now that they no longer live with their parents.
  
• They want someone to take the place of their mothers and baby them.

No matter what the reason, some men do not get in a marriage to be faithful. These men see their wives as the next step on the ladder of adulthood. They have become unable or unwilling to keep up the pace of single life, but do not want to give up the thrill of the chase.

These men are what I call Cakemen.

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Cakemen are men who want to have their cake and eat it too. These men do not leave their wives.

[/COLOR] These men stay with their wives and date someone else at the same time.

They like the fact that they can have someone stable at home, taking care of business, while they continue to play single guy with other women.

They have no real desire to leave their wives and move on to someone else, unless their activities are discovered. If they are discovered, many of these Cakemen dump the girlfriend and stay with the wife, only to go back to cheating once the dust has settled.

In a man's way of thinking, staying with his wife makes all the sense in the world.

If he leaves his wife, then they will have to split up their possessions as well as their bills. In many times it takes a man several years to recover from this.

On the other hand, if he keeps the wife, he gets to keep his lifestyle going with only a minor glitch. The minor glitch is that he will have to act like he is real sorry, dump the old girlfriend, wait awhile, and then go back out and find a new girlfriend.

 

One of the major reasons men become Cakemen is because they do not want to grow up. It takes a mature adult to handle the day to day responsibilities of a monogamous relationship.

 

When a man has to see a women everyday and negotiate bills, affection, cooking, cleaning, shopping, and personal undesirable behavior, he longs for a simpler way of living. He wants to be a grown up, but somewhere in his soul he wants all the benefits and none of the responsibility.

Having a woman on the side allows him to play two different roles at the same time. In his mind the pressures of married life can be released by having a sexual relationship with someone else.

 

In his marriage he can play responsible man and co-decision maker, while in his affair, he can call all the shots and be the lord of the relationship.

The second major reason a man becomes a Cakeman is to keep the feeling of being a player.

 

When a man gets married, many times he sees himself as being caught or conquered. It is now time for him to go out to pasture and be used as a stud service.

 

In his eyes, he is slowly, but surely becoming his dad. His days of being a major competitor are over. It is easy to see how this type of thinking would make a man feel old before his time.

 

One of the easiest and most available ways to feel young and in the game is to get into an affair. Now he is desirable. Now he is a man's man.

He is now feeling young and, even though his conscience might be bothering him, the thrill of being a player certainly outweighs those negative thoughts.

 

The final reason that men cheat on their wives, but don't leave them, is that it is a safety net.

 

Very few men get excited about a full blown gamble. They want to believe that they at least have a 50/50 chance of winning. If there is any way to stack the cards in their favor, they are going to do it.

This is the thinking behind having a wife and a girlfriend. If for some reason a man's wife is unwilling to be affectionate when and how he wants, then he has his girlfriend to take up the slack.

 

If a man wants to be the center of attention and the mister know-it-all, but his wife deflates his ego, then he can go to his girlfriend for a good dose of hero worshipping.

 

It is not just the wife who gets the short end of the stick, the girlfriend also suffers. At some time, most girlfriends who have heard a man say he hates his wife will entertain the subject of divorce or even marriage.

 

When a Cakeman is confronted with this issue, he is able to make excuses and fall back into a dilemma of commitment or what is the "right" thing to do. This position successfully keeps the girlfriend at bay for fear that she might lose him.

 

The sad part of all this behavior is that seldom if ever does everyone come out on top. Usually one or more people suffer deep, long lasting wounds from this type of situation.

 

Some women are unable or unwilling to trust another man after being with a Cakeman.

 

These men also suffer from this type of behavior. They never really grow up and take their place in a responsible society. They fill their lives with lies and deceit, which in the long run affect their coping skills and their performance on a job.

 

Women are putting their lives on hold in hopes that their Cakeman will finally leave their wife and make them the center of their lives.

Finally, if children are involved, the destruction is unbelievable. Counseling offices are filled with children who either caught their father with another woman or had to live in a family where lying was the major form of communication.

 

The best advise is to play your life honestly. If a relationship is over, then bury it. If you are in a marriage and have met someone else, think before you act. The emotional stability you save might be your own! © Copyright 1999, Dr. Roger A. Rhoades

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[puddleofmud]

Counseling offices are filled with children who either caught their father with another woman or had to live in a family where lying was the major form of communication

 

Thank you for posting this and I hope all read it! Some of it actually made me laugh, and I haven't been doing that much lately!

 

As an aside when I found out that my 3 year LTR was married via his sudden absence and some snooping and got his actual home number as opposed to his cell and called there:

Not only did his wife answer I could hear in the background a young female child (he had told me all his daughters were grown) having some (normal, I could only guess teenaged) moronic fits with her mother. She was saying,

"moao'oom, whyyyy do I have to wear this, I donnnnt wannna weaar this".

All the while his wife was thinking I was calling about an expense report and being so kind to me, just trying to help me about what I was supposedly calling.

Right then I was thinking that he lies about not only being married but as well as having children at "home" with his supposed EX-W.

God, that didn't just hurt me. It hurt me for them.

How torrid of a father, having a daughters.

Sheesh. I still can't shake that one! Children are smart little puppies and they DO figure things out.

[whichwayisup]

I met my MM last night!!

 

The other thing, if he was "just" a friend, you wouldn't be posting "I met my MM lastnight!" You wouldn't be calling your "MM" either. I certainly don't call my friend's husband - who is also my friend - my MM.

[puddleofmud]

I am divorced and single and would never even think of a married man just being my friend, only.

He and HIS WIFE would both be my friends or there would be no friendship at all!

[jerseyblue29eyes]

Thanks for all the posts while I was out! Your insight and wisdom have opened my eyes and heart to what really matters.

 

Spent most of the day with my ex-boyfriend. He made me laugh and I am starting to feel I wasted 2 of my best years on the wrong guy. My MM called my cell twice today and I deleted his messages without listening!

 

It was so nice again to be able to walk down the streets and hold hands with someone who loves me and live in the present and not the future like my MM did.

 

One point I would like to make, my MM pursued me from day one, I did not chase him ever. I hope in a way I made him a better man and hope he realizes the timing was not right. Maybe if he was single and available, we might have had a good chance.

 

Taking a day at a time from here on--thanks again!