Second dates keep getting canceled

[Grrlish]

I was scheduled for a third date with a girl when she left a message on my answering machine that went something like this:

 

"Hey, I'm really really sorry to have to do this, but I can't make it tonight. I was out last night with one of my girlfriends and she got a flat tire. We had to wait for somebody to come help change the tire and I didn't get home until about 2:00 this morning, and I just don't think I'd be good company tonight."

 

Of course, this translates to: "I'm not interested in you. Please don't call to reschedule."

 

Hmmm, I'm not seeing where her message translates into your interpretation.

 

If you had something come up and you were unable to make a date, you would probably prefer to be taken at face value and not have your reason interpreted into something completely different...wouldn't you?

[Kamille]

wow. gfto. that's actually kind of pathetic on her part.

 

but ok - trying to put myself in the girl's shoes. trying to imagine the story is true: I feel too tired to go out on a date because my friend had a flat tire and we ended up staying late.

 

Nope, doesn't compute. I would make the date if I was into the guy. Even if I was tired. If I was super tired, as in before the flat tire we downed a bottle of tequila tired, and just felt like staying home with the plant, I would eventually call the guy back and reschedule myself.

 

So I'm sorry they are some jerkettes out there. But gfto is right, never take it personally.

 

After all, if we could fall with anyone that crossed our path, how much fun would love be? Not to mention we wouldn't have LS for the tortured souls!

[gfto]

Hmmm, I'm not seeing where her message translates into your interpretation.

Read Kamille's last post. It's right on target. If she's really interested in you, she shows up for the date, even if she's tired.

 

If you had something come up and you were unable to make a date, you would probably prefer to be taken at face value and not have your reason interpreted into something completely different...wouldn't you?

Grrlish, have you ever cancelled a date by telling the guy straight up, "I'm just not very interested in you, so I'm gonna have to back out tonight."?

[amerikajin]

Read Kamille's last post. It's right on target. If she's really interested in you, she shows up for the date, even if she's tired.

 

Grrlish, have you ever cancelled a date by telling the guy straight up, "I'm just not very interested in you, so I'm gonna have to back out tonight."?

 

No, you were right.

 

If she had said "Let's make it next week, call me back" that would have been different.

 

But she knew her excuse was lame-ass and she figured you might pick up on it so she just left it at that.

[daphne]

Something's causing the girls to have low interest levels. Probably the predictability thing. Whereas I prefer a guy to do what he says he's going to do and not play games, I am in the vast minority. My ex expressed interest without beating around the bush, called me the next day after he got my phone number (although I was supposed to call him and apparently never saved his phone # in my phone) and we went out. I was whack tired because I had just played a 3.5 hour tennis match and honestly would rather have just stayed at home and gone to bed. However, I liked the guy and wanted to see him so I went. Tired and looking it. We had a great time.

 

These girls are doing you a favor by canceling. You don't want someone who's not that into you. Unless you're just looking to hookup. But the way you're going about it, sounds like you're trying to get into a relationship. One thing I might add. You are going about this in a somewhat business like fashion. I know you're just running the numbers, but it's not terribly romantic. If you want to make a connection, you're going to have to stop being so formulaic and get to know the girl. Listening is great, but getting what she's saying and responding to it is even better. Chicks dig being gotten. And if she's not that interesting for you to really "get", don't be disappointed if she already calls it because she sees there's no spark. She may see what you don't realize.

[Grrlish]

Read Kamille's last post. It's right on target. If she's really interested in you, she shows up for the date, even if she's tired.

 

I agree for the most part but why isn't being exhausted a legitimate reason for cancelling? If I were in that woman's shoes...up until 2 a.m...I honestly would not be in any shape to go on a date the next night. I'm one of those people who really needs my sleep to feel human the next day. I've cancelled plans because of a lack of sleep before.

 

 

Grrlish, have you ever cancelled a date by telling the guy straight up, "I'm just not very interested in you, so I'm gonna have to back out tonight."?

 

Yes, I have...although the language has been more like "I don't think we're compatible", or "I don't think we have a lot in common", or something along those lines; something that is actually more descriptive of why I'm not interested.

 

But I'm not sure what that has to do my statement that perhaps we should try to take people at face value more often.

[Grrlish]

Whereas I prefer a guy to do what he says he's going to do and not play games, I am in the vast minority. My ex expressed interest without beating around the bush, called me the next day after he got my phone number (although I was supposed to call him and apparently never saved his phone # in my phone) and we went out.

 

I'm in that group with you, Daphne. My current boyfriend does not play games. He makes plans with me and calls and/or shows up when he says he will. We both have busy lives and careers, and no time or desire to play games.

 

I've never had the capacity to play games, and I used to stand back at watch with amused disgust as my peers used to mess with each other's heads and hearts when I was a teenager and in my twenties.

 

Listening is great, but getting what she's saying and responding to it is even better. Chicks dig being gotten.

 

Good advice, Daphne. And it's not just 'being gotten'...being understood. It's knowing that someone is listening and processing what is being said, and that they're making the effort to have an actual conversation about whatever it is that is being discussed at the moment. A conversation is a flowing experience.

 

I don't like it when a guy just asks me questions and wants me to do most of the talking. Socialight, it's a good thing to ask questions and show interest...don't get me wrong! But I want to learn something about a guy when we go out. I also want to know that he can talk...communicate. For me, the best type of early communication is when a guy takes turns with me in sharing about ourselves, and when he asks specific questions about what I'm saying...the kind that show me that he's been listening to the details.

 

If a girl doesn't want to listen to YOU, then that's a red flag for you, darlin'.

 

You sound like a good guy...keep on it. You'll find your next love when the timing is right.

[socialight]

>>For me, the best type of early communication is when a guy takes turns with me in sharing about ourselves, and when he asks specific questions about what I'm saying...the kind that show me that he's been listening to the details.

 

I would honestly say that is the best description of how it goes. I don't just sit there and rattle off a laundry list of questions without acknowledging the answer. It is about listening, understanding, and sharing experiences. I just prefer to share mine a little faster because most women do prefer to talk.

 

I appreciate all the responses. I honestly think its a combination of doing a good job of getting somes dates I probably shouldn't, and again, being too predictable with the scheduling and what not. Like someone just told, if it's obvious you are trying to land a relationship, you never will,and if you act like you really don't care, you will probably land one.

[Grrlish]

Like someone just told, if it's obvious you are trying to land a relationship, you never will,and if you act like you really don't care, you will probably land one.

 

I don't know...my boyfriend pursued me shamelessly starting the day after our first date.

 

If I wasn't interested, I would have avoided him. However, I was interested, so his openness about his intentions...his consistently direct verbalization about his desire to pursue a relationship with me...was desirable on my part.

 

I'm not the slightest bit interested in men who play 'hard to get'.

 

Socialight, just be yourself, darlin'.

 

(I know...I'm probably repeating myself over and over.)

 

We all have our 'ways'.

 

My definition of love is when two people's neuroses match up, or when two people are a good neurotic fit. "Your quirks fit my quirks", so to speak.

[amerikajin]

For me, the best type of early communication is when a guy takes turns with me in sharing about ourselves, and when he asks specific questions about what I'm saying...the kind that show me that he's been listening to the details.

 

Yeah, if you really want to piss a woman off fast, just prove to her you haven't been listening to a word she's saying. Find a way to keep asking her questions so you can keep her talking about herself, which is something a lot of women do quite naturally.

 

Dating is complicated, no doubt. But I think that over time I realize what really makes dating complicated for a lot of us men is that we make it even more complicated than it needs to be. A lot of guys think too much - myself included. There are naturals at the game of dating, and there are others, like me, who have to work at it. Maybe it's kind of like playing a sport - I can coach the game better than I can play it for some reason.

 

There are two ways you can approach the opposite sex. You can either approach them with the goal of putting notches on your bed-post, or you can approach them as a gentleman who's looking for something a bit more substantive.

 

If you take the first road then your goal is to be a pick-up artist. Some people are pick-up artists but a lot of times it involves things I don't like doing. A lot of pick-up artists end up misleading women to get what they want. I'm not saying I've never done it myself, but I try to avoid doing that these days. I think pick-up artists are basically people who are extremely comfortable with themselves and confident about their sexuality, and it shows when they walk into a bar. If you're in a bar, you're guaranteed to be swimming in a sea of pick-up artists, which is fine if you're into the game; but if you're not, you're going to encounter women who are either into some instant karma or women who just came to have a good time but have been hit on by 5 sleazes by the time you get around to them and are really no longer interested in talking to anyone but their girl friends.

 

That's why I suggest a different battleground. Select an environment over which you have a lot more control and can make more of an impact on a woman. Meeting through friends, by the way, is also a good way to pick up good, quality women. Picking up strangers via potluck just turns me off anymore. I have to at least know something about them or spend enough time with them to get a good read before I consider them serious dating material.

 

Which brings me to the next point: have standards and stick to them. Not only does it make finding women easier for you, I think it's impressive to the women that you meet if it's clear that you're a person of principle.

 

In the early going, just go out and casually date women. Don't be afraid to even casually date two or three women at the same time if you have to. Mind you, this is in the casual stage - when you've made it clear to one of them that your feelings are deeper and those feelings are mutual, then you have to get rid of the excess so to speak. This is a controversial approach, and a lot of women will say that don't like it - and I'm sure that's true that they don't - but from a guy's perspective, he has to do it this way. Women flake out on a whim much more than men do.

 

Just relax and be casual at first.

[Grrlish]

Yeah, if you really want to piss a woman off fast, just prove to her you haven't been listening to a word she's saying. Find a way to keep asking her questions so you can keep her talking about herself, which is something a lot of women do quite naturally.

 

 

*laugh* Well, I COMPLETELY agree with the first sentence! I cannnot STAND it when a man proves that he wasn't listening to me.

 

I have a really demanding job. It really ticks me off when I tell a guy that I'm going out of town on business, and when I'll be back, and he calls the next day to see if I'm available to do something that evening. For God's sake, he doesn't have to remember the exact day of my return but if he can't remember from one day to the next that I just left town... My favorite was meeting a guy in the store one day. I was super busy and told him that I would love to go have a drink or dinner but that due to travel and deadlines, I wouldn't be able to go until after the weekend (it was the middle of the week). He called me a few of hours later to see if I could go out dancing and drinking late into the night!

 

But, sorry, Amerikajin, a lot of guys I've gone out with can't seem to STOP talking about themselves! I don't find it offensive. I think it's natural...part of the 'sell job' (and I say that with affection) that a guy does if he actually likes a gal. On the other hand, I tend to give 'lite' answers and info, early-on. Heck, I was so used to hardly talking about myself on dates that on my first date with my current boyfriend, when I realized that there was a definite spark there AND that he was giving me some deep and sincere responses, I had to dig down and get up some nerve to share a little more about myself.

 

Still, I wonder: Do most women actually go on and on about themselves on early dates? Honestly, I don't know...

 

In the early going, just go out and casually date women. Don't be afraid to even casually date two or three women at the same time if you have to. Mind you, this is in the casual stage - when you've made it clear to one of them that your feelings are deeper and those feelings are mutual, then you have to get rid of the excess so to speak. This is a controversial approach, and a lot of women will say that don't like it - and I'm sure that's true that they don't - but from a guy's perspective, he has to do it this way.

 

Heh...actually, this works from the woman's perspective, too. I don't think that it's controversial at all. I think it's the way that many adults date. Of course, one should never mislead anyone about being exclusive if they're not. The flip-side of that being that one should never assume exclusivity without some sort of direct indication of it, as in, an actual conversation of some sort...even if it's only a sentence or two. And one should 'cut the fat' if there is one prospect in particular that they would like to get to know.

 

Women flake out on a whim much more than men do.

Well, that certainly all depends on whose shoes you're in! But I think this is one of those topics that will never be 'resolved'.

[socialight]

i think women definately flake out more than men, as they are less comfortable being direct about their feelings, or as it appears in my case, lack thereof.

 

My whole grip is that if these girls are not interested, they should just say no thanks. But I guess in hindsight that may be tought or ackward, especially when the guy (ie, me) is a real gentleman.

 

best piece of advice I got from this thread is to not imply or discuss the second date at the first. Better to just say "I will call". That will give the person time to think about how it went, add a little mystery, and also give them a polite way to duck me if the decide after the fact that don't want to pursue it.

 

BTW I only have met one girl out of about 12 dates that would not endlessly yammer as I kept hit them with well thought out questions. It's really, really not that hard at all if you actively listen.

 

Thanks for your help everyone!