What does "support" mean to you?

[BenThereDunThat]

My anger concerning the MM is the "cakeman".....the man who wants to maintain his home, but wants someone on the side also. And the "someone on the side" has expectations of a real life with this man whether it is communicated or not and the cakeman knows it.

 

The anger with the OW could be fear of discovery....the fact that the W holds the "ace" and does have control over her situation. The fact that the OW misses out on family get togethers, vacations, ect....The fact that their relationship is secretive.

 

You have put into words the exact anger I've been dealing with for weeks now. I have taken my control back and he is none the wiser as to this still having any affect on me. But the ANGER is still there. It subsides some each day so I know I'm in the home stretch at least.

 

I'm left to sit here to try and mend my head and heart, while his life goes on as before, only now he can pat himself on the back for having gotten away with a little "fun" on the side. Who cares about whose expense it was at - the M first of all, and the OW also.

 

Bastard.

[Freedom Now]

I, too, have dealt with much anger in regards to my xMM. It is slowly going away, but the rage was intense. Fortunately, I was given the opportunity to tell him EXACTLY how I felt due to his inability to stay out of my life. And because I was able to confront him and STOP him from entering my life over and over again, the anger has subsided.

 

I wish that the BS and the OW could join together and empower each other but perhaps there is just too much pain on both sides.

 

Even I, an xOW who is free of the MM (finally), get hurt by some of the posts on this forum. Perhaps the damage is just too great to bridge the gap.

 

But it sure would be nice to try.

[bonehead]

[

 

I know I've come down hard on MM, there is still anger there, but it is going away fast.

 

My anger concerning the MM is the "cakeman".....the man who wants to maintain his home, but wants someone on the side also. And the "someone on the side" has expectations of a real life with this man whether it is communicated or not and the cakeman knows it.

 

I guess I fall into the MM set since we hadnt seperated when my affair started even though we knew WHEN it was going to be.

 

But I dont think I fall into the " cakeman " catagory since I knew when I was leaving and had no intentions at all of chaning it with or without OW. But as a man I would like to add something here.

 

Yes some men will try and keep both women happy and content to the best of their ability. They dont want to give up eaither one. I dont know if I would call them cakemen, but more like EGO hounds. What man WOULDNT be happy to have TWO women at his beck and call?? I mean come on here people WE'RE MEN!!! Men have the softest egos.

 

Ok, everyone stop laughing.

 

Society makes it hard for a man to leave his marriage under ANY circumstances. I know what I went through. I had people asking me how I could leave my wife and kids. Hello, I HAD MY KIDS!!

 

But a woman can get a divorce and its assumed she had a valid reason.

 

So it is hard for a man to leave a marriage even without an affair, and an affair just makes people look at the divorce as even more wrong.

 

 

The anger with the OW could be fear of discovery....the fact that the W holds the "ace" and does have control over her situation. The fact that the OW misses out on family get togethers, vacations, ect....The fact that their relationship is secretive.

 

I think alot of the anger of the OW comes from ( in a large part ) hearing how bad the MM has it in his marriage but lack of action to correct it.

 

I know thats what mine was even though I fully understood why she couldnt/ wouldnt leave. Made me even more mad when I offered help and she turned it down. ( Which I also understand ) We had even set a time line that let her know that if things didnt change I would move on.

 

Then theres the mixed signals that the OW gets from MM. " I love you SO much, but time for me to go home. " " Your the best thing that ever happened to me, but dont tell anyone "

 

This is an emotion I felt as well, even though most people knew we had a relationship. They didnt know exactly how much, but most who know us knew that we would end up togeather.

 

I'd be mad too.

[NoIDidn't]

I think alot of the anger of the OW comes from ( in a large part ) hearing how bad the MM has it in his marriage but lack of action to correct it.

 

You know, bonehead, I never really thought of it that way. It explains a lot of the anger of the OW and the fact that you hear so much "well if you (BW) kept him happy, blah, blah, blah" that makes the BW angry. Problem is, with most MM, it just isn't true. He is treating BW as badly as he claims to be being treated. Classic: Hi kettle, this is pot...

 

Most MM exaggerate how bad the M is to get more from the OW. So I can definitely see being angry that he still hasn't done anything about it. But to be angry with the BW for it. That doesn't make any sense, IMHO.

[GreenEyedLady]

You know I think alot of the turmoil comes from the fact that we are just women and sometimes we have bad days...and we come here to talk to people who kind of understand how we feel or understand the situation...and then we are met (sometimes) with people who call us whores and tell us we are such bad people and how expendable and dumb we are...and these are strangers no less, people who don't know us or our individual situations...

 

So a place that we came to for understanding (I don't know if that is the right word) is not that...it is more of the kick them while they are down...

 

So that is why the OW ask where the support is...we don't expect people to agree or condone our R...just give us a place where we can discuss our concerns and issues without having to defend ourselves constantly...

 

Just my thoughts...

[bonehead]

Most MM exaggerate how bad the M is to get more from the OW. So I can definitely see being angry that he still hasn't done anything about it. But to be angry with the BW for it. That doesn't make any sense, IMHO.

 

For starters, the OW doesnt KNOW he is exaggerating.

 

But lets change the relationship a little bit.

 

Imagine if you can..... MM describing his marriage to his SISTER in the same way he does to OW. Odds are that if he explained his marriage to her the exact same way he does to OW even his sister would be POed at the W.

[NoIDidn't]

Imagine if you can..... MM describing his marriage to his SISTER in the same way he does to OW. Odds are that if he explained his marriage to her the exact same way he does to OW even his sister would be POed at the W.

 

 

But what does the MM have to gain from his sister? other than an alli (I hope I spelled that right) and a stronger family bond. Not someone else to sleep with. A sister actually has a right to be angry if her brother is in fact being mistreated by his W. But it really is none of the OWs concern. Which is why that anger does make sense to me. I understand what you are saying, but it simply doesn't make sense to me.

[bonehead]

A sister actually has a right to be angry if her brother is in fact being mistreated by his W. But it really is none of the OWs concern.

 

But the MM has MADE it her concern. He has gotten her to care about him and how he feels

 

Besides that, its human nature to feel for someone who is being treated badly.

 

As a BS dont your friends who know feel anger towards WH? If a friend of your had a WH wouldnt you hold anger towards him??

[NoIDidn't]

But the MM has MADE it her concern. He has gotten her to care about him and how he feels

 

Besides that, its human nature to feel for someone who is being treated badly.

 

As a BS dont your friends who know feel anger towards WH? If a friend of your had a WH wouldnt you hold anger towards him??

 

I honestly don't know what you are talking about here, not being snarky. Weren't we talking about how the OW got mad at the BW? Not about how I got mad at my friend's WH?

 

As far as I am concerned, me being mad at a person who is a proven cheater and liar, and hurt my friend based on first hand knowledge, is completely different than being mad at the conjerrings of someone's imagination. I am basing my emotions on the facts, not the distortions. These two are not equal situations - which is what I was trying to point out earlier. Sister =/ OW. Sister, family. OW, outsider (even if a family friend, still outside the family).

 

What I am saying is that I get what you are saying, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Let me further explain. When I was in a R with a guy who had a GF, and I knew about her (many, many years ago mind you), he told me horrible things about his GF. I didn't care. I wasn't angry with her or him for staying in that situation. I was angry with the horsepuke he was attempting to spoon feed me.

 

It doesn't make any sense to me at all that the OW would waste her time and emotions on being angry with the W for how she, supposedly, treats her H. It definitely adds a dimension I had not thought of, but I cannot comprehend why that anger would be justified.

[bonehead]

I honestly don't know what you are talking about here, not being snarky. Weren't we talking about how the OW got mad at the BW? Not about how I got mad at my friend's WH?

 

But its the same thing. She sees him as HER friend. Yes she may be the OW in everyone elses eyes, but in her eyes she is his friend.

 

As far as I am concerned, me being mad at a person who is a proven cheater and liar, and hurt my friend based on first hand knowledge, is completely different than being mad at the conjerrings of someone's imagination.

 

No its not. You have first hand knowledge mostly from what your friend tells you. How you see her hurting.

 

The OW isnt mad at the MMs imagination, she is mad at the the pain he appears to be in due to the BS. She doesnt KNOW its his imagination.

 

When I was in a R with a guy who had a GF, and I knew about her (many, many years ago mind you), he told me horrible things about his GF. I didn't care

 

How much did you care for the guy? This bothers me a little because its natural for us as human beings to have some amount of compassion for our fellow man.

 

It doesn't make any sense to me at all that the OW would waste her time and emotions on being angry with the W for how she, supposedly, treats her H.

 

Because she sees a friend " hurting "

 

It definitely adds a dimension I had not thought of, but I cannot comprehend why that anger would be justified.

 

To the BS it never will be. Even if 95% of what MM tells OW were true the anger felt by the OW would never be justified in the eyes of the BS.

 

But to the OW it is because she sees a friend in pain that is caused by the actions or words of the BS. Be it real or not, the OW has no way of knowing and can only assume that the MM is telling her the truth.

 

Some OW I am sure have a hard time understanding why the BS is angry. Think about the things the MM tells the OW. Well if the BS really treats MM that way she should be more then happy to be rid of him right?

[Trialbyfire]

So...to add fuel to the fire, here's my attitude and not as an OW, fo' sho, lol.

 

To be dragged unwillingly and unknowingly into a triangle is unfair. My personal opinion is that the MM needs to be honest. When he puts forth his feelings of dissatisfaction and there's no cure for them, then he's free to go. I personally won't hold someone who doesn't want to be in a committed relationship with me. Just don't put me in a triangle I didn't ask for.

[Freedom Now]

"To be dragged unwillingly and unknowingly into a triangle is unfair."

 

And as the OW who didn't even know it, Trialbyfire, I agree with you.

 

Don't put me in a triangle I didn't ask for.

 

My sentiments exactly.

[NoIDidn't]

Bonehead,

 

You have first hand knowledge mostly from what your friend tells you. How you see her hurting.

 

We are coming at this from different angles. I do understand what you are saying, but my angle is different. I am saying that my feelings are not based on hearsay, but on factual events. Not as told to me, but as witnessed by me. That's why I see the situations as apples to oranges.

 

Plus, my friend is not acting hurt, she IS hurt. MM do a great deal of acting in most As. The vast majority of MM only fabricate the whole separation scenario to draw the OW in.

 

How much did you care for the guy? This bothers me a little because its natural for us as human beings to have some amount of compassion for our fellow man.

 

I cared for him quite a bit, thank you. But he lied so much, and I had enough sense to know he was lying and call him on it. I didn't see a man that was hurting. I saw a man that was lying. Compassion is wasted narcissists. Pity is more suited.

 

To the BS it never will be. Even if 95% of what MM tells OW were true the anger felt by the OW would never be justified in the eyes of the BS.

 

I don't think it is just BS that feels this way. How many posters come here that are neither and still don't justify the actions of the OW or the MM? So its not just BS. Heck, some OW don't even attempt to justify that anger. Most people don't understand how the person that is helping a cheater cheat would have the nerve to be mad at the person cheated. It really boggles the mind.

 

But to the OW it is because she sees a friend in pain that is caused by the actions or words of the BS. Be it real or not, the OW has no way of knowing and can only assume that the MM is telling her the truth.

 

But OW does have a way to gauge whether or not she is getting the truth, MM's actions. The AR is so painful to many OW because she is hearing one thing and seeing another.

 

 

Some OW I am sure have a hard time understanding why the BS is angry.

 

I don't think so. I think as a woman, the OW knows that BW will be angry, if for no other reason than territorialism. (I think I made up a word )

 

Think about the things the MM tells the OW. Well if the BS really treats MM that way she should be more then happy to be rid of him right?

 

Not like that. Not after being so horribly disrespected by the act of her H having an A. Even if a W despised her H, she wants to be told upfront that she is a lousy W. Not through the indignity and humiliation of an A. She may well be happy to get rid of him, but not by having her own self-respect destroyed by a person she trusted.

 

 

I do understand your explanation of how the OW got their anger. And I had never considered that a possibility. It gives me a little more compassion for the headjob that the MM did to the OW. But understanding does not mean it is justifiable. I really do understand what you are saying. I get that maybe OW doesn't know he's lying. I am looking at your words from MY point of view, and how I do things. Not a general humanized approach, and definitely not as someone who has been betrayed (which is the mistake the many people make, assuming that the betrayed don't have other life experience and can only see as far as the betrayal.). I am not a person to take one person's word for a sitch that involves more than one. At least, not IRL anyway.

 

BTW, this is fun. I really do appreciate your points, it makes me think.

[GreenEyedLady]

I don't think that all OW or even a majority of them have anger towards the BS (unless alot of s*** has gone down between the two of them in the real world)...I don't...I didn't even know she existed until a couple months ago...

 

Posts turn ugly when someone perceives a post as disrespectful or a personal attack against them...

[LucreziaBorgia]

I don't think that all OW or even a majority of them have anger towards the BS

 

I would say a good deal of them are simply indifferent toward the BS.

[bonehead]

I don't think that all OW or even a majority of them have anger towards the BS

 

I dont think its a majority. But was trying to explain why an OW might be.

 

 

I would say a good deal of them are simply indifferent toward the BS.

 

I dont think I would say indifferent.

 

Yes most OW who hold any negitive feelings during an affair hold them towards the MP and or themselves. But I do think that if they were honest with themselves they also do hold some resentement towards the BS for standing in the way of what the OP and MP happy.

[frannie]

Yes most OW who hold any negitive feelings during an affair hold them towards the MP and or themselves. But I do think that if they were honest with themselves they also do hold some resentement towards the BS for standing in the way of what the OP and MP happy.

 

I don't have any negative feelings towards the W. She is hardly to blame for anything between MM and I. It's down to MM what he does about his marriage, how he feels about his W, and where his future lies. He's old enough to make those decisions for himself without blaming his W for anything.