silktricks Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 For me, it means: 1. Allowing me to rant when I need to. 2. Letting me know that I'm not completely crazy even when I feel like the little white men are waiting in the wings. 3. Calling me on it when what I'm thinking/saying is not good/not right/invalid/downright mean. 4. Helping me to see that my ideas/opinions are not the only valid ideas/opinions. 5. Picking me up when I get too far down. What does support mean to you? I've posted this on the OW forum, because it seems that there are often comments that OW don't get support here. In my opinion it's been an area that was very supportive of OW, so to me the question turns into, what exactly is it that OW are looking for when you say you are looking for support? If support means total agreement, then I guess that none of us ever get support anywhere. . .
herenow Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 For me, it means: 1. Allowing me to rant when I need to. 2. Letting me know that I'm not completely crazy even when I feel like the little white men are waiting in the wings. 3. Calling me on it when what I'm thinking/saying is not good/not right/invalid/downright mean. 4. Helping me to see that my ideas/opinions are not the only valid ideas/opinions. 5. Picking me up when I get too far down. What does support mean to you? I've posted this on the OW forum, because it seems that there are often comments that OW don't get support here. In my opinion it's been an area that was very supportive of OW, so to me the question turns into, what exactly is it that OW are looking for when you say you are looking for support? If support means total agreement, then I guess that none of us ever get support anywhere. . . Agree, agree, agree! Having said that if any OW wants to tell me that I don't belong here, please do, because I don't want to be anywhere that I don't belong.
BenThereDunThat Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 For me, it means: 1. Allowing me to rant when I need to. 2. Letting me know that I'm not completely crazy even when I feel like the little white men are waiting in the wings. 3. Calling me on it when what I'm thinking/saying is not good/not right/invalid/downright mean. 4. Helping me to see that my ideas/opinions are not the only valid ideas/opinions. 5. Picking me up when I get too far down. What does support mean to you? I've posted this on the OW forum, because it seems that there are often comments that OW don't get support here. In my opinion it's been an area that was very supportive of OW, so to me the question turns into, what exactly is it that OW are looking for when you say you are looking for support? If support means total agreement, then I guess that none of us ever get support anywhere. . . I'd have to agree with all of the above. Also, I want to add that I don't mind opposing view points. I had two friends I confided my situation to. Neither are the type to go, ok, look, this guy is a complete a**hole, RUN! lol That's really what I was looking for. I would forward his emails and be like, what do you think? Because I was in way over my head. Out of fear of hurting me, they kind of pussyfooted around. They'd be like, wow, sounds like he really likes you. I really needed them to tell me to get my head out of my a** and knock it off. It was only when the emotional toll it was taking became more evident that they said anything negative, but even then they were still very careful. Not that I'm blaming them, I'm just saying I would not have been offended if they had told me that. So, by support, I just want the truth. Not bashing. There's a way to say all of the above without being degrading.
Joelle Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 What does support mean to you? Constructive input & advice. Not making one feel less & shameful.
pureinheart Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 Agreeing to disagree is very diffcult for controlling people, having control issues myself, I understand this area. Controlling people like to control everything around them through intimidation and bullying. It's interesting because when my control issues were at the peak, my own life was so out of control it wasn't funny. Support to me is one telling me the truth and not people pleasing....then it is up to me to either take that truth and apply it or to disregard it completely....it is NOT up to me to tear the adice they gave, in sincerity, down. It's all about respect
NoIDidn't Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 This is what I was asking, only better. Thanks. I think that support is mostly what goes on here, but with the emotionally charged subject, some only want to hear what continues the deception, the dream. It is not at all helpful to give advice on how to continue deceiving the W, or how to manipulate MM into investing more into a R that really shouldn't exist in a perfect world, or how to tell kids they should be happy for dad and his mistress for finding true love (while deceiving mom). Not that anyone here has ever asked those questions. But if they did, they should expect the 2 X 4's that some are very good at wielding in post form. One thing I forgot to add to my own thread was this: I have an aunt that is very american southern, and has a country wit about her. She always tells me to "Eat the meat, and spit out the bones." Meaning, take what you need, and leave the rest.
Author silktricks Posted November 20, 2006 Author Posted November 20, 2006 Constructive input & advice. Not making one feel less & shameful. ABSOLUTELY. The problem, as I see it arises (on this forum) not only with the giving of advice, but also with the taking of it. Some people react very badly to words that are not only NOT intended to be cutting, but actually intended to be helpful/supportive. Support to me is one telling me the truth and not people pleasing....then it is up to me to either take that truth and apply it or to disregard it completely....it is NOT up to me to tear the adice they gave, in sincerity, down. It's all about respect Respect, yes. Respect of others, and also of ourselves. (I also feel that the truth is most important. I don't have to agree with your truth, but I do want it.)
GreenEyedLady Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 How about what is not support? Calling someone a hooker, making rude sexual comments, all things that have happened in this forum in one week's time...While there are lots of respectful BS's, there are others who are not...everything you have listed above is right on, but there's a way of doing it without demeaning someone...IMO
Trialbyfire Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Rubbing someone's nose into the fact that only the OW and the MM have any say, knowledge or control in a triangular situation is not the way to illicit "support".
Ripples Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Well, controversially, I think that sometimes OWs need to be told they are behaving in an irresponsible, selfish, egotistical way. Maybe the worst person this kind of thing could come from is a BS, but I do feel that sometimes it needs to be said.
lindya Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 I think support means trying to help someone to stay upright and grounded. Holding them up if they're in danger of falling. Pulling them down if they're floating off on a destructive flight of fantasy. It doesn't necessarily feel pleasant.
Adunaphel Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 My idea of a supportive post is a post which shows some kind of *genuine* (not fake!) sympathy for the OP. It does not have to be helpful. Support does not have anything to do with the quality of advice, either. "I feel for you" is supportive. "You had it cominh, karma is a bitch" is not. Well, controversially, I think that sometimes OWs need to be told they are behaving in an irresponsible, selfish, egotistical way. I agree. It's something you can say either in a supportive way or in a offensive one, though.
Spinderella Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 I think the best support for anybody in any situation, is to give them the strength to find their own answers. Putting blame or judgement on a person can make them feel weaker, and sometimes too weak to find their own answers. It is bound to happen here because there are BWs and OW in the same place, and the BWs are bound to bring the anger this way in their own attempt to heal. For that reason the OW here probably defend each other more in an attempt to create the support they need. If people feel loved and accepted, they usually make wise choices. Usually there comes a point in life when you realise that the love and acceptance has to come from within, but most people get angry for awhile that it isnt coming from an external source.
bonehead Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 of this triangle I really think ( except for wording ) that this is a fairly supportive place. When the " hooker " comment was made, ( while I wasnt " involved " in the thread ) I myself didnt take it as being directed towards any one person. Could something else have been used to get the point across? Maybe, but Im not so sure. I had thought maybe a drug dealer and a junkie, but no that wouldnt have worked.
Author silktricks Posted November 21, 2006 Author Posted November 21, 2006 I think LS evolves, just like anything else. When I first joined the OW's were very strong and outspoken. They were extremely critical of BS's and the BS's really had no support and nowhere to go. It seems that at the moment at least (maybe partly because most of the OW's went elsewhere?) the BS's are being more strong and critical of OW's. Really neither is an ideal situation, as both groups need to be able to freely voice their their feelings - which may include anger towards the other group. That release of anger seems to be a necessary part of healing. This particular forum (the OW/OM forum) always has seemed to be the most popular, the most posted and best read of all the forums. So. . . whether a BS or an OW, it seems that we all need to post here, and read the "other side of the coin". The anger and frustration, though at times painful has, I believe, also been a catharsis of sorts for both OW and BS (and even a few MM). Anyway, that's my opinion, feel free to contradict me ;o)
NoIDidn't Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Really neither is an ideal situation, as both groups need to be able to freely voice their their feelings - which may include anger towards the other group. That release of anger seems to be a necessary part of healing. Honestly, I don't see why any OW would have anger towards the BW. I just think that many OW resent the betrayed in a sort of weird projection. Like the claim that they represent the OW in our H's A, maybe we represent the BW in theirs. And neither projection is healthy or accurate.
herenow Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Honestly, I don't see why any OW would have anger towards the BW. I just think that many OW resent the betrayed in a sort of weird projection. Like the claim that they represent the OW in our H's A, maybe we represent the BW in theirs. And neither projection is healthy or accurate. Yes, you are right, most of the time there is no reason for an OW to have anger towards a BW. Most of the time we don't even know who you are and what you are doing with our husbands. I say most of the time, because we are strangers and I have no idea what is going on in other people's lives. But, yes for the most part I don't understand the angry towards the BW either. I really believed that a forum like this could be used as a way for OW and BW to communicate. Many of us are unable to actually speak to the OW or BW in our situation (mostly because we don't want to) and LS has become a way for us to do that. We are all looking for answers to help us move on. Yes, it does get heated at times, but look at the subject matter.
Author silktricks Posted November 21, 2006 Author Posted November 21, 2006 The trouble with trying to attach reason to anger is that the two are like oil and water - they are not naturally able to combine. There is no real reason for the OW on this or any other forum to be angry with BS on this or any other forum - and vice versa. The odds of the women on these forums being the women in our lives is slim to none. Most BS are also of the opinion that the OW (not OW in general, but OW in specific) has no right to be angry with them. The BS see the OW as the interloper in their marriage. In their opinion(s) the OW has no rights at all. What seems to be the case, though, is that the OW often are angry, and not only with the MM. They see the BS as standing in the way of their relationship with him (again, not BS in general, but the specific BS in their triangle). And sometimes they see the BS as mistreating the man they love (remember this is based on the information they have received from the MM.) So. . . both women are often angry at the other women in their triangle. This anger has no real outlet. The won't (or can't) approach one another and work it out, so they come to a place like LS. Both are looking for support, and (I think) for both what support means is agreement. Agreement with their point of view, certainly, but agreement with their unspoken (and sometimes spoken) anger at the other. Everyone is looking for answers, looking for a release, looking for support, looking for agreement. Probably no one gets everything they either want or need, but hopefully we all get enough of it that we can carry on with our lives, heal from the pain, and get past the anger. Again, just my opinion.
frannie Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Support for me is certainly open minded, not condemning, not moralising (we may not share the same moral outlook... let's save moral debates for another, more appropriate time), looking out for someone, not bringing one's OWN baggage to the debate, seeing all sides of a picture, bringing a balanced view when things have become narrow, offering information, empathising, willingness to put aside one's first impressions and assumptions, treating people as individuals, realising that we all make mistakes, realising that people may not want to listen but just to vent, not taking offense if people don't want to listen, realising that 'the hard questions' are sometimes not appropriate, focusing on the person in strife and their needs rather than one's own... especially as this is a forum for and about the OW/OM... they and their situation really should be the priority.
THX2000 Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 "The Other Man / Woman The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner." Focus on the support AND discussion. Just because you don't like someone's opinion doesn't mean they can't have one.
pureinheart Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 First, all of you have no idea on the ways that you all have helped me. You ladies (and man....Bonehead...lol) operate in a realm of intelligence that blows my mind. I read the posts and replies and am in awe concerning the ability to communicate on such high levels. I know I've come down hard on MM, there is still anger there, but it is going away fast. My anger concerning the MM is the "cakeman".....the man who wants to maintain his home, but wants someone on the side also. And the "someone on the side" has expectations of a real life with this man whether it is communicated or not and the cakeman knows it. The anger with the OW could be fear of discovery....the fact that the W holds the "ace" and does have control over her situation. The fact that the OW misses out on family get togethers, vacations, ect....The fact that their relationship is secretive. The anger with the BW is obvious. These are just possibilities.....think about it though....who is the common denominator here? THE MM So why are the W and OW at odds with each other? Why not join forces and work together through the pain. Before I said that my heart goes out to the OW.....now my heart goes out to all parties involved....this is what this forum has done for me...opened my eyes. Support....this is what it is right here and now....
pureinheart Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Just wanted to state for the record....it could sound like I am a man hater.....nope....don't hate anyone....just am not happy with some actions....and that's including my own;)
pureinheart Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Sorry...my post sound similar to others a lot....I read the first part of the thread and respond to something and post it....and then will read further down and see that another posted before me with almost the same idea...not a copy cat....just a 60's child lol......
NoIDidn't Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Support for me is certainly open minded, not condemning, not moralising (we may not share the same moral outlook... let's save moral debates for another, more appropriate time), looking out for someone, not bringing one's OWN baggage to the debate, seeing all sides of a picture, bringing a balanced view when things have become narrow, offering information, empathising, willingness to put aside one's first impressions and assumptions, treating people as individuals, realising that we all make mistakes, realising that people may not want to listen but just to vent, not taking offense if people don't want to listen, realising that 'the hard questions' are sometimes not appropriate, focusing on the person in strife and their needs rather than one's own... especially as this is a forum for and about the OW/OM... they and their situation really should be the priority. Frannie, I don't know that I agree with everything you have said here. But I will take a stab at why. It sounds like you don't accept any idea that doesn't coincide with your own. You seem to be happy with your A, but not every OW is. Some want more and they want it now. Some are being hurt by very manipulative men, and need to be shown a way of dealing with it or possibly getting out. But it just seems that anything that doesn't support your view of your circumstances is considered condemnation to you. Because the above post is using circular logic: different words to say the same thing over and over again. Maybe its just me. ----------------------- You are happy in your sitch, so I accept that you just want to talk and not be advised. That's cool too.
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