dsrtridr Posted November 19, 2006 Posted November 19, 2006 Hello all, I have been with my wife for ten years, married for the last four. I am 33 years old and she is 28. The first five years of the relationship were sometimes rocky as we were both young and inexperienced in serious relationships. She was often jealous, insecure, and clingy which caused me to sometimes push her away. Throughout everything we stayed together and and I was completely faithful to her. She ended up cheating on me with another man. I though it was over but she moved out and we slowly worked things out until we got engaged. Early in the relationship our sex life was good. After she cheated it went to almost nonexistent. While married we have only had sex 3-4 times per year. That has bothered me a lot and I brought it up several times but she always said it was just her and I learned to live with it. I brought it up again a few months ago and she responded with a letter stating she could hardly stand laying in bed next to me and felt as though she was being crushed by our relationship, her job, our son, and life in general. I changed a lot of things to help her more. I take care of our son every time I can, take care of dinner, all house cleaning etc so she would feel less stressed. This last year has been been tough as our home burned down and we just started a new business. About a month ago she wrote me another letter stating she was not in love with me and she is not sure if she ever was. She had already spoken with a divorce attorney and assumed that is what I would want. We talked, cried, and agreed to try counseling. We have went four times now but I am just as confused as before. My wife does not have any answers for why she feels the way she does and everything I ask her she responds with "I don't know". She tells me that she loves me as a friend and a father but she has no attraction or passion for me. We get along great and do not fight and other than this issue communicate very well. All other areas of our relationship are great. I love her and my son more than anything and would do anything to save my marriage and family. I just don't know how much longer I can go without answers. I am hanging around waiting for her to decide if she wants to stay with me or not. The pain inside me is consuming me and is starting to affect my health and job performance. How can she say she loves me, marry me, start a family with me, and then claim it was not real and possibly throw it all away? I do not understand. I don't know what to do and was hoping someone might have had similar experiences or advice. Thanks.
Trialbyfire Posted November 19, 2006 Posted November 19, 2006 People change and nothing changes marriages more than having children. Don't forget that she was only 18 when you two started together and from 18 - 25, people change the most until they finally settle at around age 25. I feel for you and also wish you much luck in resolving the sitation. Don't forget that you also have power in this relationship so don't let her drive everything.
FlyingHigh Posted November 19, 2006 Posted November 19, 2006 Age is irrevelant when it comes to maturity. There are people who got married at 18 and managed to celebrate their 50 wedding anniversary. There are those who married at 40 years of age and never even got to their 5th year anniversary. Your wife's behavior is the mirror image of my stbx. Your wife is still deep into her affair. Your wife's insecurity and immaturity as it was with my hubby along with his inabilitiy or lack of skills (due to his upbringing and family dynamics) are two of the many factors that contributed to her infidelity. Have you exposed her affair to her family, yours and the OM(s)? If not, do it!!! Is the OM married? If so, contact him and his family. There are ways of doing this. If you haven't discovered this site, www.marriagebuilders.com do so. It's primary focus is rebuilding a marriage that has been tainted/destroyed by infidelity. Read, "Surviving an Affair", "His Needs, Her Needs", and the processes of Plan A&B and start putting those plans to use. There are success stories even after infidelity. BUT, your wife has to be willing to own up to her responsibilities for the choices she made. Looks like, she has yet to do that. This site will also give you a myriad of hints on how to find out if your wife is still cheating. Affairs thrive in secrecy. That's the high these cheaters get from affairs much in the same way that drug addicts are when they get their fix. Your wife, like my stbx will lie and even sell their soul the devil just to get away with lying. They'sre also very good in shifting the blame on you to make feel guilty. And it worked because you are having to do what it takes to please her. Be careful with this otherwise you're nothing more than a doormat to her which will cause her to disrespect you and the marriage. My hubby swore on his dying mother's life that he wasn't in contact with his mistress. But the cheating ba$tard did what cheaters do best---lie. He manioulatedly convinced our counselor and his in order to get the response he wanted to validate his position and make him appear as a "changed" man. He didn't count on me being smarter than him when it comes to being a detective. 9/11 was the last lie he ever made in front me. Divorce is in progress. The pain inside me is consuming me and is starting to affect my health and job performance. Yep! Went through that too! Lost 13 pounds in a month. I call it the all natural BS (betrayed spouse) diet! You may need to seek counseling for yourself. Most insurance will cover the first 5 sessions with a small co-pay and if your C thinks you'll need more, a request will be filed, up to 15. The following weeks will be the toughest part. This is the painful "roller coaster". How can she say she loves me, marry me, start a family with me, and then claim it was not real and possibly throw it all away? She can because that's how cheaters operate. It's all about them, no one else. She is deeply drugged in her own fantasy provided by the affair. My stbxh and I even bought a house last year in the midst of his affair. Why would anyone with a "sound" mind do that? Why would he risk by swearing on his mother's life whom he profess to love just to cover his lie? That's just it! Even the supposedly smart and intelligent people do really stupid things. Former congressman Foley is just an example. Thank our lucky stars that you and I are not in the public eye. I do not understand. I don't know what to do and was hoping someone might have had similar experiences or advice. EXPOSE the affair! That's your number one step. You'll have a better chance of killing the affair than "helping" it thrive in secrecy. The sooner you do, the sooner "REALITY" will hit her and come face to face with her fantasy. Your wife will be pissed and blame you for shattering her "perfect" world. It's part of the process. You can't make your wife understand why she cheated. She has to figure that out herself and it will take time. For some, depending on their maturity level (lack of) they never get to that point of understanding and learning. Most importantly, DO NOT try to undestand it or rationalize the decision she consciously made to cheat otherwise you'll only beat yourself up for it. THERE ARE NONE!! There is no rational or logical explanation. Her decision to have an affair was purely selfish. That's what affair is! It's a selfish act. Affairs will either destroy a marriage OR make it stronger. Look into this affair as part of your life lesson no matter how your marriage will end even if you are the faithful one. Either way, you'll become a better person and father because of it. Many of us have been where you are at. It DOES get better....good luck.
Searching Posted November 19, 2006 Posted November 19, 2006 Hey buddy. I feel your pain. Do as I say- and not neceesarily as I do- move on!! Save whatever dignity you still have left and build on it. You'll be fine. There's a few million women out there waiting to meet you. She's NOT the only one!!!
Ladyjane14 Posted November 19, 2006 Posted November 19, 2006 FlyingHigh has posted you good advice in terms of attempting to save the marriage. But based on what you've posted.... I can't imagine why you'd want to. From what you've said, your wife has NEVER treated you right. Your entire relationship with her seems to be one-sided, with you giving love and support and her just doing the bare minimum. That's not love, dude. I can't tell you what to do based on one little post, but if you suspect that your self-esteem is so crushed you can't imagine better treatment for yourself... why not get into some IC (individual counseling) and work that out? In the interim, if your wife has already lawyered-up, I would strongly suggest that you do the same, lest you end up as an 'every-other-weekend-and-one-Thursday-a-week' type daddy. Don't trust a spouse who's bent on divorce to look out for YOUR best interests.
FlyingHigh Posted November 19, 2006 Posted November 19, 2006 Hey buddy. I feel your pain. Do as I say- and not neceesarily as I do- move on!! Save whatever dignity you still have left and build on it. You'll be fine. There's a few million women out there waiting to meet you. She's NOT the only one!!! Is that why your ID name is still "Searching?" A few million women out there huh? That really says a lot about how you see women and relationships? Temporary! Okay, this woman's too insecure---next?! This one's have two dysfunctional kids---next! This one isn't here enough for me---next! This one doesn't do what I want her to do---next! So searching, keep "searching". You might actually hit a jackpot one day with the "few miliion" women you have waiting in line outside your door! Sure, moving on is always an option. He's not "ready" to move on or give up on his marriage. Moving on is a "quick fix" and doesn't solve the real issues in his marriage.
Author dsrtridr Posted November 19, 2006 Author Posted November 19, 2006 Thanks for the responses, I am starting to think this has a lot to do with the guy she cheated with. He was a friend of hers she grew up with. What bothers me even more is that he was married at the time and they cheated in his home. I tried to rationalize the cheating by saying our relationship was not that good at the time (which it wasn't) and she wasn't getting what she needed. I know that even after five years she is still very attracted to him and carries a picture of him in her wallet. His wife (now ex I believe) knows about what happened, as does most of her family and mine. I don't want to make her out to be evil because she is not at all. She is a very caring person and this is really hurting her too. Her childhood was very unstable with her father being killed when she was twelve most likely over drugs. Her mother was involved in drugs also and gave her up to other family. Luckily for her they are good people who are hard working and decent. The counselor seems to think my wife may have been attracted to me for the stability and comfort I brought into her life. My wife treats me well but has never connected to me intimately especially after she cheated. I had to beg to have sex on my wedding night. We had talked about it several times and discussed her seeing a doctor because she always said she just couldn't get in the mood or she just wasn't a sexual person. I tried everything I could think of but she was against porn, sex toys, foreplay, oral sex, just about everything. This changed about a year ago when shockingly she bought a vibrator at one of those in home sex parties. I was thrilled thinking she was finaly opening up. Now she uses it frequently so I know she has the desire but she wants nothing to do with me in regards to anything sexual. My wife says she has not been honest with herself from the time she cheated but is not sure if it still involves the other guy. Again, she claims to not be in contact with him and I do believe her. Right now she is being brutally honest and she still denies talking with him. I feel like she lusts or lusted after him but being with me gave her the opportunity for a stable future and she thought that was her best option. He was the bad boy, rock band type and was everything I am not. My wife is a good person with a huge huge heart and she is a great mother. I guess I'm starting to realize that deep down she lied to herself about her feelings for me and now is having trouble dealing with it. She did tell me that she thought after we were married her feelings would grow stronger which also the reason she wanted to start a family. Now we have an amazing two year old who I would die if I couldn't see every day. If there was even a sliver of hope that we could work this out I would be willing take any amount of time or do anything. I just think now she realizes she made a mistake and listened to her head instead of her heart. Other than our intimate life we are great together. Sometimes I think I could go without that part to save the family and be there for my son. Other times I think I deserve more than that. Thanks again.
Trialbyfire Posted November 19, 2006 Posted November 19, 2006 You do deserve better. I can't believe you're putting up with this. Whether you believe it or not, it isn't good for the kids. For you own sanity and the future for your kid(s), let it go.
Ladyjane14 Posted November 19, 2006 Posted November 19, 2006 I don't want to make her out to be evil because she is not at all. She is a very caring person and this is really hurting her too. Her childhood was very unstable with her father being killed when she was twelve most likely over drugs. Her mother was involved in drugs also and gave her up to other family. Luckily for her they are good people who are hard working and decent. The counselor seems to think my wife may have been attracted to me for the stability and comfort I brought into her life. None of that was your fault, kiddo. It's unfortunate, but EVERYBODY has to take responsibility of their own dysfunction. You can't save a person from themself. It's not a matter of "evil" or of being a "caring person". The bottom line is that if... for whatever reason... this girl can't give you what you need, then you're NEVER going to get what you need from her. ....she wants nothing to do with me in regards to anything sexual. Are you REALLY prepared to live the rest of your hopefully long life... without a sexually compatible mate? She's given you no indication that this aspect of your relationship will ever change. By her track record, it's not likely to. This problem gets worse... not better, unless an entirely new and different mindset is adopted. It takes a HUGE committment from both parties in order to achieve permanent and lasting change on this issue. Believe me... I know. My wife says she has not been honest with herself from the time she cheated but is not sure if it still involves the other guy. Again, she claims to not be in contact with him and I do believe her. Right now she is being brutally honest and she still denies talking with him. I feel like she lusts or lusted after him but being with me gave her the opportunity for a stable future and she thought that was her best option. He was the bad boy, rock band type and was everything I am not. Your wife kept you in a sexually starved relationship for FOUR years, and then had sex with another man in the betrayed wife's home. For what?... security? Sounds ugly when you say it like that, doesn't it? I'm not trying to get you mad at her... but really, you need to think about the meaning of that. Cheaters cry and carry on like their hearts are fit to break after they're caught out. It's normal, and in alot of ways it's even sincere. But you aren't really in a position to singularly prioritize your wife's feelings right now. Unless she EARNS her way back into your marriage, you are facing a LIFETIME of what you've experienced with her so far. She has to grow up and get control of herself, otherwise she's worse than useless to you as a wife and partner. As I said before, FlyingHigh has posted you some good resources. So you would do well to look into those. Try also, DivorceBusting by Michelle Weiner Davis. Here's a list of her 180's: 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! 2. No frequent phone calls 3. Do not point out good points in marriage 4. Do not follow him around the house 5. Do not encourage talk about the future 6. Do not ask for help from family members 7. Do not ask for reassurances 8. Do not buy gifts 9. Do not schedule dates together 10. Do not spy on spouse 11. Do not say "I Love You" 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc. 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he will be missing 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him someone he would want to be around. 20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) 21. Never lose your cool 22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic 23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes their feelings stronger) 24. Be patient 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil) 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel 34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes Try incorporating some of these 180's into your approach. Sometimes it's important for a WS (wayward spouse) to understand that the window of opportunity is closing. Hell, she might lose YOU while she's trying to make up her mind. Adopting 180's can sometimes light a fire under a WS, giving them incentive to EARN their way back. Meantime, give some thought as to what you really NEED from a life-partner. Make sure this girl has the assets to fill the bill before you proceed. And... see that attorney. Don't get caught flat-footed. Despite the whining and crying, she might have ZERO intention whatsoever of working things out with you. You'd be surprised at how sincerely uncertain a woman can sound... all the while she's bent on divorce.
Author dsrtridr Posted November 21, 2006 Author Posted November 21, 2006 Well, I finally got a lot of the answers I was looking for. Last night we had a long talk and my wife admitted she was not over the guy she cheated with. She told me she was in love with him at the time and she thinks she is still in love with him. Even after five years the passion and attraction she does not feel for me she feels for him. She also told me she found out he was playing in a band in her home town this last weekend and she went and saw him. Her attraction to this guy is very intense and nothing like she has ever shown towards me. My worst fears were true, she made the decision to marry me with her head and not her heart. I know this can't be resolved at least with us staying together. I don't think I could ever trust her again and would always feel I was the second choice. It still hurts so bad though. I can't imagine her being with anyone else or not being with my son every day. For now I am moving into the spare bedroom probably until we can sell the house. Thanks again for the advice.
Searching Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Is that why your ID name is still "Searching?" A few million women out there huh? That really says a lot about how you see women and relationships? Temporary! Okay, this woman's too insecure---next?! This one's have two dysfunctional kids---next! This one isn't here enough for me---next! This one doesn't do what I want her to do---next! So searching, keep "searching". You might actually hit a jackpot one day with the "few miliion" women you have waiting in line outside your door! Sure, moving on is always an option. He's not "ready" to move on or give up on his marriage. Moving on is a "quick fix" and doesn't solve the real issues in his marriage. FlyingHigh- did you even read this guys first message? Are you delusional? I suppose his most recent post supports that my first response was on the money and that you, my dear, are out to lunch. Why don't you read people's messages before you respond to them? And to answer your question- yes I am still searching- and I don't necessarily know the answers for myself. However, I at least have the common sense to look at all the objective data and "consider" what my options are before I blindly go on. For Chrissake- you're going through a divorce yourself. You of all people should know better!
FlyingHigh Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 quote=Searching;988369] FlyingHigh- did you even read this guys first message? Are you delusional? I suppose his most recent post supports that my first response was on the money and that you, my dear, are out to lunch. Why don't you read people's messages before you respond to them? Let's see Searching...maybe you missed this part of his first post... I love her and my son more than anything and would do anything to save my marriage and family. However, I at least have the common sense to look at all the objective data and "consider" what my options are before I blindly go on. For Chrissake- you're going through a divorce yourself. You of all people should know better! See, unlike you Searching and others who are just itching to pound on their keyboards, I'm not quick to jump on the bandwagon to tell posters seeking for advice to kick their cheating spouse to the curb. If anything, I should be the FIRST to jump on your bandwagon because I've been the one cheated on. But I don't! And if it were that easy, posters such as he, dsrtridr, would've gone ahead and kicked his wife to curb and be done with her!!! And he wouldn't have posted in the beginning. If that's all that anyone of us can offer to posters who have been cheated which is to kick a cheating spouse to the curb, then what value does this advice have? Much less to anyone who are in the same predicament? None! Don't you think he hasn't heard the same advice from his close and personal friends/family? And unlike you, I don't harbor the same level of bitterness. I'm beyond that. I've moved on. And because of it, I am really flyinghigh.... Granted, what his cheating, selfish and immature wife did is beyond comprehensible, delusionally insane and immoral not to mention disgraceful and humiliating. But the fact of the matter is that dsrtrdr wasn't ready to "give up" on his marriage despite his description of her and their marriage from his first post which I replied to. As long as he or any posters who come on LS "seeking" advice or "opinion" I look beyond the obvious of what is written or read and see what most people would not see. And based on that, like you, I post my reply. But "3 million women a sound advice? Let me see...more "delusional" wouldn't you say? Or maybe you forgot to have lunch? Hmmm.... The brain functions better when you eat... :D I wonder if there's really anyone out there, man or woman who would be able to go through 3 million women or men in their life time..... LOL! I'm thinking STDs!!!
FlyingHigh Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 And to answer your question- yes I am still searching- and I don't necessarily know the answers for myself. Searching, I sincerely wish you well in your search. The only advice I have to offer is try not to search too hard. If you are content and at peace where you are in your life, this is what people will see and what they think is what you have to offer. If you are not content and at peace, figure it out and maybe there is something in it that's preventing from finding that person. How we project ourselves is a reflection of what we have to offer. Yesterday, a stranger came up to me and said, "I just wanted to say how beautiful you are and how peaceful you seem." Shocked, I stuttered and smiled, "Uh...thank you! I am very peacful. I'm just surprised you noticed." People do....notice.... Have a safe and a wonderful Thanksgiving Holiday with your family.
Searching Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 I appreciate you taking my comments in stride and not having an overly emotional reaction like I did. It's true- I AM a little delusional! My comment about the few million was to try and encourage dsrtridr (really myself) that regardless of what happens- he will be O.K. and find someone to be in love with. Anyhow, you seem like a really nice person and I appreciate the contibutions you make to this forum. I hope you have a great Thanksgiving too!
FlyingHigh Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 I appreciate you taking my comments in stride and not having an overly emotional reaction like I did. It's true- I AM a little delusional! My comment about the few million was to try and encourage dsrtridr (really myself) that regardless of what happens- he will be O.K. and find someone to be in love with. Anyhow, you seem like a really nice person and I appreciate the contibutions you make to this forum. I hope you have a great Thanksgiving too! No prob, Searching....I appreciate your reply. I know your comment about the few million is the same as "there are other fishes in the sea.":) I also think that how we advice and what we write touches a little on who we are and where we are mentally and emotionally which is understandable. There's a little bit of us in what and how we write. How they are interpreted by readers...well....it can be chop suey---a mixture of everything!
FlyingHigh Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 She told me she was in love with him at the time and she thinks she is still in love with him. She either is or she isn't. Which is it? Her childhood was very unstable with her father being killed when she was twelve most likely over drugs. Her mother was involved in drugs also and gave her up to other family. Luckily for her they are good people who are hard working and decent. The counselor seems to think my wife may have been attracted to me for the stability and comfort I brought into her life. There is not one person in this world who doesn't come from a family with some form of dysfunctional even if some are more extreme than others. My father was also killed when I was young. But I don't roam the Earth using it as excuse for the choices I make in my life. Why should you for her? Your counselor's opinion of your wife marrying you for stability is valid especially for people who are insecure. You were the rock she couldn't be to herself. Unfortunately, she took advantage of that. She will the OM the same way. The rock and roll OM represents "fame" to her. By her association it will give a false sense of "celebrity status" which usually goes along with someone who is insecure because it will give her the attention she needs. It feeds into her insecurity. My stbxh likes attention. Me? I'd rather be rich by my own doing and anonymous! Heee-heee... Her attraction to this guy is very intense and nothing like she has ever shown towards me. My worst fears were true, she made the decision to marry me with her head and not her heart. That's what affairs create---intensity. Everything about affair is intense because it leaves out the realities in life. All she experiences are the parties, fun, sex, etc....everything but the real stuff...bills to pay, house to clean and manage, etc. I know this can't be resolved at least with us staying together. You are dead on with this one! You can't and you won't! As long as she "thinks" she is in love with this guy, maintain contact she has paved your marriage to ONE direction---divorce. Question is, do you want it and are you ready? Unless I missed it, you have yet to mention that word...
Recommended Posts