Is It Really Love?

[puddleofmud]

My MM and I share real love and that is what is keeping us as friends. We have never even kissed and would do anything for each other. We both respect what a marriage is and have only said if we had met while we were single, we would be together. With that said, I realize that how we are controlling our actions is rare (and hard on some days). But we are doing this because it is the real, unselfish, support the other person, unconditional, acceptance of reality love and we want to be in each others lives forever. I would move mountains for him but would never break the bond of his marriage and the same holds true for him.

 

I commend you for not having a sexual relationship with him and I am sure this is very hard for you.

However, an emotional affair is possibly damaging to the marriage. I have been in this situation hundreds of times where a man just wants to "talk" and this seems to always lead to him talking about his wife.

I cut it off immediately because I know exactly where it leads. He gets sympathy or empathy which leads to the man avoiding what is necessary which is working on his own problems.

Often men do such with women they have found to be sensitive and very kind. This is how affairs begin...with a lovely "captured audience".

I am not being judgemental but it have a pat response to these men:

"Sorry about your problems but I don't wish to discuss them with you".

Then I say something like "yesterday, I met the most GORGEOUS man and I gave him my number, he called me last night and I can't wait for our date!"

Or "you remind me so much of my brother" and if they are older "you remind me so much of my FATHER!

Their responses are pretty "telling" when you say things like that. And I simply avoid them thereafter.

Men sometimes "test" women to see where it will lead.

The fact that you may would "move mountains" for him may be a sign that he is incapable, too immature or unwilling to move his own "mountains".

Of so, then you are burdened with the weight he should be shouldering.

Best wishes to you and thank you for sharing this.

[kellyp1]

We have been there for each other and he has never said a bad word about his wife nor have I. The only comment he ever made once was that they had grown apart due to conflicting work and school schedules. We have worked hard to maintain a true friend relationship. Somedays it hurts like nothing I have ever felt before but I am keeping the end goal in mind, staying in each others lives forever. That to me is true love and I know others that have done the same thing with the same strength needed and same end goal in mind.

 

He would never ask or let me "move mountains" for him, it is just an expression of my feelings. We are both in our 30's and just being real about everything. We have been there for each other for work issues and just cheering each other up and have admitted that we have strong feelings for each other that just chemistry could not define. In the same conversation, we both 100% agreed we could not and would not never act on it. We are stronger than we give ourselves credit for and really, everyone should define what the ultimate goal is. For us, it was not losing each other or hurting people. Marriage is a forever bond and at the end of the day, breaking that was too much for either one of us to even consider.

 

I will love this man for the rest of my life but I hope when the right man comes around (and I am open to dating just really haven't been asked in awhile) the romantic love will diminish and be replaced by the love of lifelong friends. He is too amazing for me to imagine a life without him.

[pureinheart]

In my opinion, what makes a 'shade of grey' is when something is not categorically and objectively, for all concerned, either 'right' or 'wrong'. Unless one concerns oneself solely with the position of an individual ('my way or the highway'?) there are always going to be conflicts of interest ('shades of grey') in any situation. It's a philosophical and moral question that has been around for two and a half thousand years, and rightly so.

 

I can give thousands of examples of grey. I wonder if anyone can give (m)any examples of black or white, except where extremes of behaviour such as murder or child abuse are concerned (and even 'murder' is debatable and a matter of definition).

 

Sorry, I seem to be unable to just quote a sentance...lol.....

 

This is very simple....truth

[whichwayisup]

With all my friends that are or were OW each of the "circumstances" were different, but all are the same in the fact that the MM used them...and to keep them on the hook the MM would keep them wondering in one form or another....keeping them "thinking" that they would leave their W eventually.

But they must take part of the responsibility by allowing themselves to get involved with a MM. As much as he may have lied, done all to woo the OW, she still could have said no...

 

From what I have seen, the OW and kids get the brunt of these sick marriges....

 

And the wife?

 

The kids. Number one, they're the ones who get the worst of it and may become damaged with insecurities, doubts and fears. They didn't ask for it, they don't deserve it.

[pureinheart]

But they must take part of the responsibility by allowing themselves to get involved with a MM. As much as he may have lied, done all to woo the OW, she still could have said no...

 

Yes, and I wish they would have said no....possibly if they would have and any others that these MM would approach the MM would have to deal with their own mess instead of the escape w/OW

 

 

And the wife?

 

The kids. Number one, they're the ones who get the worst of it and may become damaged with insecurities, doubts and fears. They didn't ask for it, they don't deserve it.

 

The wives were as sick as the MM....

 

It is for the very reason that you stated in the above quote that I titled this post "is it really love"

[whichwayisup]

My MM and I share real love and that is what is keeping us as friends. We have never even kissed and would do anything for each other. We both respect what a marriage is and have only said if we had met while we were single, we would be together. With that said, I realize that how we are controlling our actions is rare (and hard on some days). But we are doing this because it is the real, unselfish, support the other person, unconditional, acceptance of reality love and we want to be in each others lives forever. I would move mountains for him but would never break the bond of his marriage and the same holds true for him.

 

But, the 'friendship' you have with him is inappropriate. He's being disrespectful towards his wife. She probably trusts him 100%, that he isn't emotionally cheating on her - Yet he is, with you. Has he told his wife about the friendship? Does he tell his wife "If I was single, I would be with Kellyp1." My guess is no. He is breaking a vow, a promise to his wife by befriending you. And in a way you are disrespecting their marriage by allowing the close emotional feelings you both have to grow. Married people aren't supposed to have 'growing emotional feelings' for someone else. One is supposed to give that up when one gets married.

[Trialbyfire]

The distortion of reality is caused by adding more and more shades of gray. What exactly is it that makes a "shade of gray" for you?

For me, it's going outside the dictates of right and wrong.

 

Unless it's a matter of law... then right and wrong would be defined by each person's conscience in accordance with their own value system. Those of us who are 'in touch' with our own value system aren't experiencing as much "gray" in our lives. Can't help that. It's a byproduct of being well-adjusted.

 

For those folks who want something soooo much that they're willing to tinker with their own belief system... confusion is bound to result. And for those who don't have a sense of right and wrong... well, they aren't generally wringing their hands here at LS. This isn't something they're losing much sleep over.

 

But if you want to talk about REALITY... check out BTDT's last post. THAT's the reality of the situation. All these other arguments about love and feelings fade to 'smoke and mirrors' if you can't count on someone to be with you when you really NEED them, if you're walking through this world ALONE.

 

No man (or woman) is an island. And if you invest in someone who can't really be there for you... you obstruct the road for someone else who would.

Very, very nicely said, both LadyJane and BTDT.

[frannie]

Sorry, I seem to be unable to just quote a sentance...lol.....

 

This is very simple....truth

 

That's somewhat abstract.

 

Truth in what situation? About what? And what kind of truth? Between who?

 

I'll give an example in which 'truth' isn't necessarily the right thing by everyone's reckoning: a married person telling someone outside the marriage that they have feelings for them. That's a truth that, in many cases, would perhaps be best left unsaid.

[NoIDidn't]

Feelings aren't truth. They are feelings. Emotions. Which can be easily misinterpreted.

 

How many people have thought they were in love with someone one day realize that it isn't or wasn't love? Many. Including many in As. On both sides. And I am well aware that this holds true for some Ms as well. (Thought I would save you the trouble of that argument.)

 

Feelings aren't truth, and half the time they aren't even accurate.

 

For example, you are had a bad day at work and snap at your kids. But you aren't mad at them. They feel hurt and that you are mad at them. But you are just aggitated. Their feelings are real, but not accurate. And chances are you will apologize and tell the kids that you aren't mad at them, but having a bad day.

[kellyp1]

His wife does know we are friends and we are not allowing feelings to grow. We are working to adjust them into a lifelong friendship. The crime here is that we told each other what our hearts felt which has created the torture. Would the wife care that we support each other through a bad day? No, she would not. There is no secret that a friendship exists as I have also hung out with them as a couple. It is acting on the feelings that are in your heart that is bad.

 

There are a lot of friendships out there I am sure where people have feelings for each other and never acted on them. Would a spouse be upset about what is in their husbands/wives hearts sometimes? Sure, but the reality is, you accept the fact that your significant other will develop feelings or desires for other people over the course of your life (especially if they got married young) and trust that they will not act on them. If they do, leave them. But mind you, I say this as a single woman whose closest experience to marriage is a failed engagement 11 years ago. Good luck to everyone, only you can know what your heart is saying.

[frannie]

Feelings aren't truth. They are feelings. Emotions. Which can be easily misinterpreted.

 

How many people have thought they were in love with someone one day realize that it isn't or wasn't love? Many. Including many in As. On both sides. And I am well aware that this holds true for some Ms as well. (Thought I would save you the trouble of that argument.)

 

Feelings aren't truth, and half the time they aren't even accurate.

 

Fair enough, and I won't get into a debate about your point of view.

 

I suppose I'm still waiting for an example of a black and white situation.

[frannie]

His wife does know we are friends and we are not allowing feelings to grow. We are working to adjust them into a lifelong friendship. The crime here is that we told each other what our hearts felt which has created the torture. Would the wife care that we support each other through a bad day? No, she would not. There is no secret that a friendship exists as I have also hung out with them as a couple. It is acting on the feelings that are in your heart that is bad.

 

There are a lot of friendships out there I am sure where people have feelings for each other and never acted on them. Would a spouse be upset about what is in their husbands/wives hearts sometimes? Sure, but the reality is, you accept the fact that your significant other will develop feelings or desires for other people over the course of your life (especially if they got married young) and trust that they will not act on them. If they do, leave them. But mind you, I say this as a single woman whose closest experience to marriage is a failed engagement 11 years ago. Good luck to everyone, only you can know what your heart is saying.

 

Personally yes I would be upset about a partner of mine having feelings for someone else if he chose not to share that fact with me.

[herenow]

Feelings aren't truth. They are feelings. Emotions. Which can be easily misinterpreted.

 

Many times people lie about their feelings to get what they want. People do it everyday in business. You never really tell your boss how you feel if you think it will jeopardized your job. Same with people in affairs, they won't be truthful if it means they will jeopardize getting what they want.

[whichwayisup]

His wife does know we are friends and we are not allowing feelings to grow.

 

You both are lying to yourselves. I can tell by how you post about this man, and the fact is, you'd be completely devastated if he told you the friendship had to end and for you never to see/talk to him ever again. I could be wrong, completely wrong, but I think you'd fall apart...

 

We are working to adjust them into a lifelong friendship. The crime here is that we told each other what our hearts felt which has created the torture.

 

Neither of you can control feelings, that line has been crossed, you both feel it and now knowing this, any sort of close contact WILL feed the feelings. You may not want to see or believe this, but it's true. You're going to care about him more, want to have him more in your daily life. Sorry, but this is the truth.

 

Would the wife care that we support each other through a bad day? No, she would not. There is no secret that a friendship exists as I have also hung out with them as a couple. It is acting on the feelings that are in your heart that is bad.

 

She WOULD care alot seeing as you two have intimate feelings for eachother. She WILL care alot, enough that SHE could tell him to end the friendship with you over it. This isn't a plantonic innocent friendship, if it was, then his wife would be included IN the friendship, yet she isn't. You two are playing with fire...............

 

If she knew how you two felt about eachother she will be upset, rightfully so.

 

There are a lot of friendships out there I am sure where people have feelings for each other and never acted on them. Would a spouse be upset about what is in their husbands/wives hearts sometimes? Sure, but the reality is, you accept the fact that your significant other will develop feelings or desires for other people over the course of your life (especially if they got married young) and trust that they will not act on them. If they do, leave them. But mind you, I say this as a single woman whose closest experience to marriage is a failed engagement 11 years ago. Good luck to everyone, only you can know what your heart is saying.

 

Yes, but most learn to keep their mouths shut about it and not put themselves in a situation where something more could happen. For a guy who is married and "just a close friend" you are putting ALOT of thought into him. More than it is appropriate for their marriage.

 

You can't see or you don't want to see the truth of your situation.

[whichwayisup]

Personally yes I would be upset about a partner of mine having feelings for someone else if he chose not to share that fact with me.

 

And his wife would have EVERY RIGHT to tell her husband to end that friendship. It would be the same if she had a close male friend, in the same situation. He wouldn't like his wife spending time with another man, sharing and being close, sharing feelings and wishing ...Fantasizing, or saying that "if I weren't married ,you and I would be together..."

[HarleysAngel]

I will love this man for the rest of my life but I hope when the right man comes around (and I am open to dating just really haven't been asked in awhile) the romantic love will diminish and be replaced by the love of lifelong friends. He is too amazing for me to imagine a life without him.

 

Being in the same situation, I would want to love this MM for the rest of my life as he is equally amazing; perfect in my eyes even if he isn't really good-looking. I am 27, he is 34 and still think and act my age. Perhaps that hooked me partially besides sharing the same interests with him -- music, automotive, general infos and stuff. We used to be officemates, became really good friends; i stood sometimes by his side as his advisor when he whined about his wife's jealousy over other girls, guitar and friends; he was such a caring man without the intention of flirting or something. He just is a good man and I should know. We would often talk about his family -- wife and son -- and I knew he loved her so much. They are married for five years now.

 

I wasn't expecting he would 'fall' for me, like he said (now am I in doubt?), because i honestly don't look desirable, often acting like a cowboy, wearing eyeglasses, and I have behaved in front of him always in an unlady-like way. We were just too candid when were together at work. He was not even my type. I just loved the way he tells stories while I listen honestly because I loved to. We had really good, honest friendship until the day, when I just realized I wanted to be always be with him. I knew I was falling despite knowing he is married. I felt unenergetic when he's absent from work, I was making a way to be with him. It's all I ever wanted everyday. Having him for a lover was far from my mind. I thought he wouldn't allow it either so I was contented myself having him around sharing his moments and journeys in life and day-to-day routines.

 

One day, to my surprise, he cuddled me to go anywhere and I went along. We ended up in a romantic place drinking beer and sharing more stories. When we have decided to go home coz 'his wife's waiting', we stuck around for a while outisde the resto and that's when he revealed his feelings. I returned it. He said "anyone who really knows you wouldn't help but fall because you are such a true person."

 

We've been going steady for barely two months or so and already I feel that he's not the same. He was the one always texting me and saying sweet thoughts in the first few weeks of this so-called relationship while I was repellent. I was, during those days, just testing the waters, hesitating if he was telling the truth until he finally made me believe. It was my cue to do my part.

 

We're no longer officemates but we still contact each other through text but I was the most active texter now. If I don't text him, he wouldn't. It's making me miserable even if I don't want to. During those two months, I already surrendered to him my virginity.

 

I see no problem in his marriage and I am afraid to ask him what led him to cheat on his wife. I knew right from the very start that I would never be a choice out of marriage. He seems to be living a normal life while I am left here always wondering if it's worth loving him after all. When we see each other I try to look for traces of disattachment in his reactions, but I could not see a single.

 

Also, he is only my second boyfriend (?).

 

I am so confused. I am not the bitchy kind of girl. I used to be conservative but I gave up all my values for him. I am not demanding for more; I don't even intend to be a homewrecker. I told him I won't let him choose, that's because I am so scared to hear what he would say. I fear the thought that his wife would die if she knows about this; and my family would definitely dismiss me if they knew about this too.

 

I'm sharing my story hoping to see light. They say everything happens for a reason. I want to give up on him now but everytime I try to, I end up just making sure he is fine. I feel like being killed. It was okay then to hear about his wife and him going home with her was just normal to me. Now, the thought of them together pains me. It drives me toward self-pity. I begin asking if I deserve this kind of treatment. I can be fine with the set-up, which is temporary. To let me know that the reason why we ended up in this situation is love would give me an amount of peace of mind. I can go on finding my own man later. I'm just trying to live in the now.

 

Thanks for taking time to read.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I begin asking if I deserve this kind of treatment.

 

The treatment only lasts as long as you perpetuate it. If you are unhappy and wanting to find a full partner in life free of secrecy and shame instead of a fraction of someone else's permanent partner, then walk away from this.

 

I used to be conservative but I gave up all my values for him.

 

You can still reclaim your values, if you can find the strength to turn and walk away. Imagine how nice it will feel to be with someone who strengthens and shares your values, who makes your relationship a matter of public knowledge, someone who is proud to be with you and doesn't hide you like a shameful secret.

 

I want to give up on him now but everytime I try to, I end up just making sure he is fine.

 

What about you? Who makes sure you are fine? YOU, that's who. He doesn't need to be checked on. Remember, he has a a full life of his own. You only have a half of one with him. You are the one who should be checked on, and taken care of. Only you can do that though.

 

If I don't text him, he wouldn't. It's making me miserable even if I don't want to. During those two months, I already surrendered to him my virginity.

 

If he won't contact you, then it should be a bit easier on you to go to 'no contact'. Tell him that you care for him, but cannot continue living such a lie of a half life. You want and deserve more out of life than this, and that means turning your back. Ask him to never contact you again - tell him you will tell his W everything if he contacts you, and you don't contact him. Ever.

 

This is walking away time. Time to get your head and heart back together. It won't be easy, and you will literally have to sit on your hands to keep from calling/texting him. You gave him the gift of your virginity. He took it and can't be bothered to so much as text you. You are wasting your time, your youth, your values, and your life on this guy.

 

Every day you waste on someone else's husband is another day you steal from the man who will truly make you happy and treat you with the respect and love you deserve.

[HarleysAngel]

Thanks very much to you Lucrezia. I appreciate your advise so much I bursted into tears while reading it. Honestly, my head is aching so much thinking about him. We were okay the last time we met and I thought, it was just my paranoia that's making me miserable. I always assume, when doesn't contact me, that he is slowly pushing me away because he couldn't tell me straight that he wants me out of his life already. But when I see him, he acts just the same. Only when we don't communicate that I feel this heartache. But I thought, he should at least make an effort to contact me or be with me to know if I am okay.

 

But I am making my decisions now. Thanks to you. I've been planning to end this while he's unaware, but for him to realize the importance of my presence like before, not for me to peace out. Pathetic huh? I don't know why I am so in love with him.

 

Your advice really helped me a lot. Thanks so much and hope to hear more from you. till next. perhaps, I can bring a good/bad news the next time.