It's Over, So Why Isn't It Over?

[Antha]

Well, this is going to be long. I am warning you now. You kind of need the history to get the full impact.

 

Backstory:

 

My husband and I met when we were 14 years old. My sister brought him home from school one day; he came home with her on the bus. We started dating soon after. I'd never had a boyfriend and I was a VERY shy person. J was capable of opening my up and being myself. We had a great relationship back then. Eventually though, I ended it when we were 15 because I felt he was going too fast with me sexually and people made fun of me for dating me. People were actually harassing me. Yes, I know. Weak. But I'd been teased all my life and didn't want people to turn what I had with J into something to be ashamed of...but they did. He wasn't the best looking guy by a long short, but he was funny and intelligent and sweet. And although we didn't have sex (we did try, though) I felt he was pushing me too far too fast. I wasn't comfortable with how much stuff I had done with him. Remember, I was 14 and 15 when we dated and had never dated anyone before.

 

Anyway, I broke his heart; I never gave him a reason why I dumped him. We stayed friends...and somehow there were also some benefits because I was too nice to tell him 'no'. I knew I had hurt him. Not only that, but for some odd reason, I didn't see anything wrong with it.

 

He dated other girls after me, and we stayed friends. I didn't notice it at the time, but all the girls that came after me were pale imitations of me. He admitted this to me years later, that yes, they all either looked like a watered down version of me or had some quality I had possessed. Through it all, we were friends with benefits (but no sex).

 

When we were 17, J was too busy for me. He was working 60+ hours a week, going to school in the mornings, and had a very demanding girlfriend at the time. I hadn't talked to him in MONTHS, and not for a lack of trying. I would call him up and 2 minutes into the conversation, he would have to hang up with me because his girlfriend was on the other line.

 

I ended my friendship with J because on my end, he was just too busy for his best friend. I felt it wasn't a real friendship anymore because I hadn't actually seen or spoken to him in months and months and I didn't think it would ever let up. Now, you should understand that although we sometimes touched or did some sexual things occasionally, I truly did think of him as a platonic friend. I wasn't in love with him and I wasn't jealous of his girlfriend. I was just tired of being backburned and not spoken to because his girlfriend and his job were so demanding. I felt it best to cut him out of my life to avoid any more feelings of hurt or rejection.

Well, as you can imagine, J was very upset by this. For the longest time, he tried to talk to me and I wouldn't. I wouldn't let him in my house. He came over many times and I thought (hey, suddenly you have time to drop by my house and beg me to talk to you?). I was cold. I was too afraid of being rejected over and over again by my best friend in favor of his girlfriend. J never did give up, but the calls became less frequent. About once a month or so, he would call for me sister (he was friends with her as well) in a hopeful attempt to speak with me. I just answer the phone and retrieve my sister.

 

When we were 20, he called for my sister...and this time, I had gotten completely over the hurt and had said: "Hey, J. How are you?" and from there, we became best friends again. He came over that night and it was truly as if no time had passed between us, as if there hadn't been a big falling out. We talked for hours and hours. For about a month, we were close. At 20, I was a virgin still and no longer wished to be. J was over at my house almost every day despite the fact that he was still dating that demanding girlfriend I mentioned earlier.

 

One day, I put on cherry flavored lip gloss in front of him, asked him if he'd like some and he stretched his hand out for the gloss. I shook my head at him and pointed at my lips and said: "Taste here?" You can imagine how shocked he was. We kissed, and I laid my proposal on the table: I was a virgin at 20 and I didn't want to be; I didn't want a boyfriend; I wanted a teacher or mentor, if you will. I told him he was the only person I had ever felt comfortable enough with, the only one who I really trusted.

 

From there, he was 'teaching' me every time he came over. For some reason, it never entered my mind that he had a girlfriend and he was cheating on her with me. I thought too, that because I was his first love and he was mine and because I was 'the girl who got away' for him, that it wasn't wrong. He also helped this idea by saying that his girlfriend was always cheating on him, that he didn't have sex with her anymore and was waiting for the right time to break up with her.

 

Eventually, I found myself falling back in love with J. It wasn't just the sex, either. We would go out to eat together and have great conversations and watch tv together and we did everything together. I told him that I was falling for him and that we have to back away from each other quickly, that I didn't want to have romantic feelings for him. He told me we would 'wean' each other off each other.

 

Well, of course that didn't work. He was having feelings for me too and didn't want to fight them. I mean, he had been pining for me since we were 15. He broke it off with his girlfriend and we started dating, but we didn't tell anyone we were dating, just like we didn't tell anyone we had been having sex.

 

Well, from there, our relationship got VERY serious. We got engaged 6 months after talking to each other again, and about 6 months after that we were married.

 

We had A LOT of struggles that would just take TOO LONG to tell (and this is already pretty long). However, we had a great relationship, a great marriage. When he was weak, I was strong and vice versa. We shared and experienced so many good and bad things together. To this day, I do not regret it. From ages 20 to 24, it was wonderful and the years flew by because I was truly happy.

 

When we were 23, despite living at his parents house, J persuaded me to have a baby because he wanted his mother to be able to see his child before she died. I'd been wanting a baby, but we couldn't afford one. However, it didn't take much to convince me that "If you wait until you're completely ready, we'll never have a baby".

 

The pregnancy was pretty good. He came with me to every pre-natal visit. My stretch marks were VERY bad and J didn't understand that I needed reassurance that I still looked beautiful to him. When I asked him: "Honestly, does my stomach freak you out?", he answered yes. Little lies are okay, especially around a hormonal pregnant woman feeling insecure about her looks.

 

J got a great paying job right after our daughter was born. Four months after our daughter was born, his parents moved out of the house and we took it over.

 

My mother and one sister had been wanting me to divorce him for awhile. J had been a different person after our daughter was born. He was very zombie-like after work and then he would to bed at 6 or 7 PM (our daughter goes to bed at 7PM). He'd become very selfish; he would go out all night on Friday nights and refused to let me come; and then refused to stop going out on Friday night to the bar or wherever because he "needed that to blow off the steam from the work week".

 

We'd had a lot of big life changes all at the same time: owning our own place for the first time, having a baby, living with the in-law's, new job, new roles, etc. Things had been bad for awhile from my perspective. My heart found ways to excuse his behavior, even though I'm wasn't happy, was feeling neglected and he was not the same man I fell in love with.

J's selfish behavior after the baby was born kept becoming more and more. He pushed me away more with every day; he didn't say much at all if he was home and acted like a zombie. He would always go over to his cousin's house and spend the night because "R needs a ride to work in the morning, so I might as well just sleep over there".

 

We separated once, even though I didn't want to. He says it was only a week now (he backtracks and changes history a LOT), when in actually, he left me and my daughter in our house without a car for an entire month. We didn't have a car, I had to beg people to bring me food. He says I exaggerate -- I don't. His mother was horrified to hear that he had left us for a month, that he was going out to the bar every Friday and leaving me and my daughter behind at home (I told her this while I was still with J).

I tried to get him to go to marriage counseling, I practically chased him around the house when he was home, but he claimed he had lost his sex drive (at 25 years old--BS!) It got to the point where the car was always broken, so I could not leave the house, and J would always be gone at his cousin's house, and gone almost 5-6 days a WEEK, always with some stupid excuse or reason. There was even an "all day wedding" that he attended -- and he wouldn't let me go. He was gone all that Friday, Saturday, and then came home on Sunday afternoon. He claimed that since we were having marital problems, he didn't want to bring me because he didn't want to worry about whether he was paying enough attention to me, if he was including me enough. He also took a weekend vacation with "his cousin" (his cousin is male and definitely his cousin, for the record, I use quotes because I don't think that's really where he was). He took the vacation without me and leave me and our daughter at home without a vehicle.

 

Eventually, I stopped convincing myself to stay in the relationship. I cried most days and suffered a lot. He wouldn't change back to who he was -- see, I didn't want him to change, just go back to being the wonderful man I married.

 

I sat him down one day and we discussed the situation. He agreed that things were not getting better, but worse and that he didn't think that the marriage was going to work out.

 

Skipping far ahead, two days after I told him I filed for divorce, he moves in with this girl "B". He'd mentioned her name very rarely, but she was one of the girls who was going to the bar with him and his cousin and he even admitted to dancing with her. I'd seen her in person, too, because J had had a root canal and had had her drive him and she just showed up on my doorstep.

 

Anyway, I had suspected for awhile that it was this girl that my husband was having an affair with. So, now he moves in with his "just a friend" girlfriend. About a month later, when I confront him on her, he claims they are "friends with benefits". A week after that, they are dating. It tore me up so much. This woman acts so high and mighty because she was able to steal a husband away from his wife and child -- not that hard to do when a marriage is having trouble.

 

Anyway, here is the real reason I'm writing: he wants me back. I know I haven't been able to convey the complex turmoil of emotions and situations that went on, but the gist of it is that he treated me like a slave in my own house and left me there like a prisoner. He claims that I neglected him emotionally after our daughter was born and that is why he left all the time. I still think it's bull. He's selfish, a liar, a manipulator...

 

All of our history is what is keeping my emotionally attached to him. I know it wouldn't work out. He won't even admit that his relationship with this girl he still lives with started PRIOR to me filing the divorce papers. He lays a lot of the blame for him abandoning our family on me. He is so persuasive and I'm so lonely and yes, horny. I've had a few cases of "accidental intimacy" with him.

 

I told him that if he truly wanted me back, he would be ready to go to counseling, to move out of her trailer and never ever see her again, and that he'd have to be willing to commit years of effort into trying to get back to how we were. I told him that I didn't think either of us was up to the long task of trying to get our marriage back.

 

My problem with him is that one day he is cold and business-like, the next he acts like a friend, and the next he says that he's not dating her anymore (though still is living with her) and that he wants me back.

he's nothing like the man I loved most of the time. The fact that he screwed her and threw it in my face to hurt me should be enough to make me hate him -- but I don't. I don't know if I love him or not, I probably still do.

 

I need a drill sergeant to stop me from calling him. Anyway, thanks for listening.

 

Jaclyn

[Touche]

You need Gunny!

 

Anyway, what a story. It's sad though. Do you want him back, really? Ask yourself that. Or is it just an ego thing since he's with someone else now?

 

As I see it, you should NEVER be calling him. If you want to repair things with him, it's going to have to be mostly up to him since he's the one who left and is now cheating on you. Why should you EVER pick up the phone and call HIM?

 

Honestly though, even though you have such a long history together, I don't know why you want him back. He's never going to be the guy he once was to you. He's controlling and manipulative. That's bull that he left you with no car and didn't take you to the wedding. He's not a husband at all.

 

DON'T call him. Make him think he's lost you forever...and he deserves to have lost you.

 

So do you really want him back? No matter what the answer is, the WORST thing you can do is call him.

 

Don't do it.

[Antha]

I know you are right. No, I don't want him back. I think I want the IDEA of who he was back.

 

I have no idea why I can't be mean, or just have apathy towards him. I'm too nice, too giving, too generous, too forgiving. I'm way too passive and permissable. I wish I could be the kind of person who stands up for themselves. Filing for divorce was the first time I've ever stood up for myself, really.

 

It's funny. Your post came right after I weakly gave in and called him. I made him promise never to try and kiss me again, to never propose getting back together. He said he claims my whole reaction to getting back together is why he is abandoning the idea now (and making ME feel rejected).

 

I had my sister take away my cell phone so I wouldn't call him...but I cheated and called him on the home phone and I feel ashamed. I don't know why I keep doing this to myself. I know it's not a good idea. It feels like I'm addicted to the sound of his voice, no matter what he's saying at the time -- good or bad.

 

I've thought of having a rebound relationship. The reason I keep being available to J is because I really need to feel wanted and appreciated. However, I would never use another person like that. I know I have to raise my own self esteem instead of relying on another person to do that, but at the same time, because I am not distracted by someone else and feeling special, any kind words he might say are like giving a starving woman a feast. That is my weakness with him: I'm lonely and desperately want to feel desirable. Pathetic, but true. Him? He's got someone to boost his ego and make him feel special and tell him how great he is.

[Touche]

I don't see how he could ever make you feel wanted or appreciated...especially since he's living with another woman.

 

Appreciate YOURSELF now and your child. You need to detach from him and focus on yourself and your child. You will feel badly every time you contact him. It won't help your self-esteem at all. I wish you hadn't called him. I'm proud of you for being the one to file for divorce but don't wimp out now.

 

Hang in there.

[Antha]

This is a little dirty, so for the easily offended, please don't read it.

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So, Tuesday J had our daughter. When he brought her back, he asked me to send her inside to my Mom and I did. After she was inside, he started to hug me. I was too stunned to do anything but said: "What are you doing?" He said: "I'm hugging you". When he pulled away (it was a LONG hug), he said that he didn't want us to fight, that he never wanted that and that he wants to get along and that he cared about me. I said tearfully: "You hate me" and he told me that wasn't true.

 

Our conversation went from there. I ended up asking for a cigarette and he said they were in his car. So, we stood outside his car and smoked and talked casually about stuff, such as my job shadowing and just general matters. I asked him how he would feel if I "not dated, but were to become involved" with people. He asked why and I said 'For fun. Horniness.', to which he replied: "Why don't you get involved with me?" I asked him to repeat himself and he backed down, as if he hadn't said it.

 

Somehow he started to mention his girlfriend, "B". Then he said: "I don't want you to know too much about her. Forget about it". I replied: "Okay, I see that's dangerous territory, I'll drop it". See, he was trying to get ME to ask HIM about this B thing. So, after I said that, he automatically volunteered that he wasn't dating B anymore because he felt that he wasn't doing her justice because his head is so messed up right now and that it wasn't fair to her.

 

More talking and then he stuns me by kissing me. I kiss back a bit, because it's so easy to fall into what I knew as my life. I kept pushing him away, but he'd come back for more. Eventually, one of his hands was down my pants and the other was up my shirt--right in front of the neighbor's house, though it was discreet.

 

Somehow he got me in between the cars in Mom's driveway (there are four parked in the driveway). He continued making me feel good and I was protesting, but not much because I've been lonely and horny. He told me that he wanted to be with me, that he can't believe that we aren't together and can't believe that we can't figure out how to make it work between us. He was begging me to have sex with him, right up against the car. If it was anyone else, I would have gladly done it because it very much excited me. I told him I wasn't on my [birth control] shot anymore and the last thing we needed was for me to accidentally get pregnant and he suggested that I go back on my shot. I also said that if he really wanted me, he wouldn't be with B. He claims they haven't had sex in weeks, that they are broken up, and that he can't help where he lives at the moment.

 

Eventually, I was able to put our daughter in the forefront of my mind (it was past bedtime) and told him I had to go (I told him this many times, but he kept saying "Five more minutes").

 

The next day, he was a bit aloof. In fact, he was kind of aloof until Friday night. At 11:30pm, he called me and asked if he could come over. I wanted to say no, I knew I should say no...but I said 'sure'. I figured we'd talk more about 'us'. Well, when he got there, I got into his van. We talked a little. He brought me a Diet Coke (it's the only pop I will drink). Pretty soon, he put the moves on me again and I ended up having him finger me. It was good and more exciting and passionate than sexual things had been in our relationship before. Just kissing him or touching him truly sent electrical shivers up and down me.

 

We went to the 24-hour grocery store to go to the bathroom and then we parked back in front of the next door neighbor's house. We talked and I told him that there were too many obstacles in front of us: my family hates him, his family hates me, his cousin would NEVER be allowed NEAR me, he would have to NEVER EVER see or talk to B ever again, and we'd have a lifetime committment of just trying to get back some semblence of what we had. I told him I didn't think he'd be up for what I'd need to try and reconcile. He didn't say anything to this.

 

This time seemed more like an obvious "I'm horny" booty call. We were touching and stroking and then we got in the backseat. We had sex, but he pulled out. God, I didn't want it to end. It's been MONTHS for me, and only weeks for him. He came pretty quickly on both occasions, so it makes me wonder if he's telling me the truth about not having sex in weeks. Anyway, B called and he told me to be quiet for a minute. He said: "Yeah, I'm just driving around. Uh-huh. Yeah, I'll be home soon". I asked him why he didn't just tell her where he was and he claimed that "he didn't want to hear anyone's opinion about it". It didn't seem that convincing to me. It was 1:45am. Why the heck did SHE care where he was if they are broken up? Why the need to lie at ALL? Also, I felt immediately transported back to those phone calls where it was ME he was lying to about where he was and almost felt sorry for that homewrecking little piece of trailer trash. Almost.

 

We had a cigarette and while doing that, the Benadryl he had taken earlier was kicking in. He started to fall asleep mid-sentence, after promising that we would have a long talk. This is ALSO what happened in our marriage. We would be having a conversation (about anything, not necessarily a 'relationship' conversation) and his eyes would be glazed and he'd be falling asleep and it felt like talking to a corpse).

 

I went to have one more cigarette and he said, "No, hon. I've really got to go". I said: "Just one more" and he said "No, seriously, I can barely keep my eyes open. I need to go to bed". So, sobbing, I left the car feeling seriously used (because I WAS). I called his cell when I got in the house, still crying a little and telling him that this could never happen again because I felt cheap, ashamed, and used as a booty call and felt like he had practically kicked me out of his car. He said that wasn't his intention, that he didn't just come over for sex -- that he had wanted to see me, but that he agreed that it shouldn't happen again and that we should go back to being business-like.

 

Well, sure, but now I feel so rejected because he so easily transitions back into not wanting me, not wanting to fight for me, not caring that we aren't together. I had made some real emotional progress before he pulled this "I want you back" crap and now I feel hurt and used all over again. It's my fault (and his), but mostly my own damn fault for giving into my weaknesses. He doesn't want to fight for me, he doesn't even know me. He wants the IDEA of who I was back, but he doesn't see that he has changed me into this person. Now that he got what he wants, he's back to being The Ex.

 

He's been better though. He seems more willing to be mature and amicable. For example, he's getting Christmas pictures for our daughter taken and he wanted me to pick out the outfit. I asked if he was sure, or did he want me to send her to him with various dresses so that he could pick. He said no, that he wanted to include me in this. I asked if he wanted me to pay half for the pics (he's giving me some) and he said not to worry about it, that he would pay for them. This happened at Halloween too. I picked the costume and he took her out (it's his year).

 

He keeps confusing the hell out of me. If he wanted to stop paying child support, then why would he abandon his idea of getting me back so quickly? I made him promise not to kiss me anymore, and promise not to say that he loves me or that he wants me back. I just can't handle it anymore. Why is he so intent on f***ing with my head?

 

Anyway, hopefully he will stick to just business-like. My willpower seems so weak when I actually see him face to face. Even now, I want to hear his voice. I'll never be able to trust him again, especially since this is the SECOND time that he has asked for me back, then quickly rescinded it. He was still screwing and dating Bridget the first time and I said: "If you really meant that, you would have gotten rid of her FIRST and THEN asked for me back." I told him that time that it was selfish of him to have B still there in case I said no. It shows me that he isn't that serious about reconciling and REALLY working on our marriage.

 

Now, I feel like an "on-call prostitute" and I hate it. I tell myself it's not going to happen again -- but that's what I told myself all the other times. There have been 7 instances of "accidental intimacy", though most of those I didn't get anything sexual out of it myself.

 

If he were to show me that he had truly change -- not in words, but in ACTIONS -- I would reconsider revisiting our relationship and trying to work on it. The fact remains is that nothing he has done shows me that he feels truly remorseful or that he has changed. He is still selfish and its still all about HIS needs and blame-shifting his affair (if it wasn't physical, it was at least an emotional affair) onto me. I've told him over and over again that actions speak louder than words...I wonder what MY actions have HIM thinking?

 

I don't love him as much as I did...but I think he knows he still has some of my heart and he can still play with it. I should never forgive him for ANY of the horrible things he has said and done; sometimes he has been downright malicious and cruel...but the love I have for him, the one I used to know before our daughter was born, is still within me.

 

I am getting better. I am WAY stronger than I was -- and I was VERY weak and sad and depressed and felt frustrated with no options. It broke my heart to divorce him. But I've been grieving for what was, what might have been, what should have been. I'm healing, albeit slowly. I don't think he's healing. He's throwing himself into a frivalous fling with HER and distracting himself from the pain with sex and her ego-stroking of him...but as he said on Saturday night: "I'm the girl he can't get out of his head; never could and maybe never will". I am the one he wants -- he just doesn't want to work for it.

 

I told him and he agrees (for the moment): "If we are meant to be together, we'll find our way back to each other some day. If not, then we aren't."

 

Man, I seriously want a little male attention, something to keep me from being weak when it comes to J. I'm so tempted...but I know it'll just make me feel cheap and used as well, as well as using someone else.

 

How the heck does ANYONE get through this crap? My divorce isn't NEARLY as bad as my sister's (she's going through one right now) or any of the others I've heard of...but DAMN. It ****ing HURTS sometimes!

 

Antha

[PWSX3]

Man, I seriously want a little male attention, something to keep me from being weak when it comes to J. I'm so tempted...but I know it'll just make me feel cheap and used as well, as well as using someone else.

 

Antha

Sounds like a visit to your local adult toy store would be an option, I really don't think you want another man in your life at this time specially if you really want to get back together.

 

Just sounds like you both could use some time apart to do some soul searching, sure being separated hurts but the more you look at yourself and see what you need to be a "BETTER" person the easier it gets.

 

Pick up a book and start reading, ones I liked are His Needs, Her Needs, and The Five love langueges, I got a lot of help reading them and trust me I'm a person that hasn't read more then 5 books since the 80's so anyone can do it.

[Antha]

Unfortunately, I live in my mom's house right now. I actually do have a wonderful little gadget...but my mom, my sister, and my brother all live here too. I share my sister's bedroom right now, so I don't have privacy or anything.

 

I'm not stupid enough to have casual sex or a rebound relationship, but it is what makes me vulnerable to "attack".

 

The books you recommended...are they about getting back together with your ex, or about learning to cope and move on? I need the latter. I do NOT want to get back with my ex, per se. The reality is that he is not going to change. He still won't even admit what he did wrong. I take some blame, but him cheating on me and neglecting me and abandoning...he won't even own up to it. He needs to grow up and take some responsibility for his childish, selfish actions. He needs to stop justifying what he did because I don't buy the excuse of "I wasn't getting what I needed at home". Too bad. You should have opened up and TOLD ME what was wrong instead of deciding for himself that having an affair was the way we were going to "heal our marriage". If you are a mature adult, and you don't feel you are capable of being faithful to your marriage--you end it. And you also don't turn around and blame YOUR ACTIONS on the faithful spouse. There is no excuse for it. Everybody is responsible for their own actions and reactions.

 

Sorry if that came out hostile towards you. I am still a bit resentful at being so fully betrayed and then told that whatever he might have did was justified and that he didn't do anything wrong. Whatever.

 

My big problem with him is that he won't keep his behavior consistent: if you are going to be a d!ck, then just be one. If you are going to be business-like, do it that way. I'm tired of him Yo-Yoing on me.

 

I wish I knew what was going on in his head. I feel like I'm being manipulated (as I was in the marriage) and that he is deliberately mind f**king me.

 

So, to make a long story short, I don't want to be with him...he just confuses me when he makes these proclaimations of love and of wanting to fix us.

 

I'm really busy right now. I'm going to school, taking care of my daughter (I have custody), getting my life going the way I want it to go. I even made a friend at school (a female friend) and I don't cry very often. I enjoy time with my sister and with my daughter...I think about him a few times a day but I'm not going, "Why, oh why?"

 

I need to learn to accept that he will never be the man I married because he doesn't see how he has changed at all. He doesn't acknowledge it and he doesn't feel he needs to change. I have changed and I'll admit that. Having a baby changes the roles, changes your life. I'd be a liar if I said that I was exactly who I was when I married him. Life changes you every day. In this case, he turned into someone I didn't like very much. He started taking me for granted, then stopped respecting me, and then started to make me feel worthless and drove me to the darkest chasms of the human mind. And yet, I am capable of forgiving him. I probably won't be taking him back, but if he could own up to his actions and shown me that he is truly remorseful for hurting me and our family and NOT excuse his behavior...I would forgive him, person to person, if he asked for forgiveness. He has not.

 

Antha

[dgiirl]

I'm not stupid enough to have casual sex or a rebound relationship, but it is what makes me vulnerable to "attack".

 

Sounds like you ARE having casual sex... casual sex with your exh. He comes in your life when he wants sex and leaves when he doesnt want you anymore. If this was some guy you just met, and he treated you this way, would you be sleeping with him? Why are you allowing this to happen?

[unbreakable]

Antha,

 

Ok, I'm going to let you know right now that my post is going to be long. It's not even funny how many similarites exist in your histery and in mine. But lets just say I've been down the road that your headed on, and maybe I can help shine some light on a few things your dealing with right now...

 

First of, quick history... My stbxh and I started dateing when I was 13 and he was 14.. We did however become sexualy active and by 14 I was expecting our first child.. We got married at 15 when we were expecting our second... Over the years we had many moments of good times and bad, I helped him, he helped me etc etc.. Ying and yang, kind of thing which was nice. When the times were good they were really really good, but when they were bad they were really bad. He had a pattern which started when we were very young of escape... Escapeing with friends, etc, or escaping from home to dive into work. Anything and everyhting was an escape. Then he would stop escapeing and everything was great, and on and on it went... With me hopeing someday, he would grow up, and would really want what we had...

 

Well , hmmm about 5 years ago now.. We were on the verge of loosing our home and our busness.. We had 5 kids at that time. My husband worked all the time, we had tones of stress on us.. It was very hard.. And we had to move... He didn't help me pack at all, said he had to work, so I delt with the movers etc, and unpacked everything too, with kids in tow... One week after we settled in, he tells me he wants a seperation.. Out of the blue... Totaly freeked out, never even crossed my mind that this would happen. And he was gone. Moved in with this "friend" of his that was an employee... Which was female. I was about 23 at the time, and was well neive, I guess because I belived that bull for awhile...

 

During the first year, me and the kids had to keep on downgrading with the houseing, and I think we moved a total of 4 times.. He was in and out of the home every few months, he would come back said he made a horable mistake, and then leave again with the other woman... She too as you discribed, was arogant, and thought I was everything bad, and she must be everything good, and it hurt me to no end... The kids thought for the first year anyway that dad was just working alot, because he did come to see them, and they were still young enough...

 

The second year, was much of the same crazyness... It's easy to let time just pass or drift on when you are taking care of young children and have a screwed up person who you love and WISHED they felt the absolut same about you, in and out of your life... The whole 2 years, of this, ok, there was not a week that went by that we were not sexualy active. It was very intence emotionaly, the seperation of eachother, the confushion, the whole thing was such a mess I didn't know up from down, and my insides were being riped out on a daily basis... The questions cirlced in my mind. Why am 'I' not good enough.. Why am I just good enough for some conversations, and some causual sex...

 

Well he had moved back in, I had ejucated myself at this point about affairs big time, and what they do to wayward spouses, and everyone. I was helping my husband see through the "fog" and it seemed like this time it was for real... Well the other woman became pregnant.... He moved out... I filed for divorice....This was 3 years ago.... It was world war 3 for awhile there. Him basicaly feeling regected by me, finaly, turned him into the antichrist.. It was horable... I started moveing on emotionaly... Then we started talking more, and it seemed like we were makeing head way with our old long lost friendship that was buried under life's crap... And that felt so good... We started talking all the time again, and that felt great... I was happy...

 

We were doing visitation with the children at this point, which was hard on me, more so then the kids... I was going out with friends for the first time in my adult life, which was good for me, in one way... I ended up getting kissed by this guy. I told my h, and it was like a veil was lifted from his eyes... He wanted our old life back but better, etc, etc... And within a week we were moved and were together...

 

 

I relized it was going to be a long road, so I was PATIENT, OH SO PATIENT... He had a daughter with the other women at this point, so I knew that he obviously needed to see her and our kids did to, and she was to young for visitation in a real way with us at our home... So well long story short. Things progresd and pogresed with us, life felt very good in everyway again, like things made sence... I was still over looking a lot of negatives, because the positives felt so good, they sustained me, and gave me hope... There were things that I was being disrespected about, but I over looked them as part of the proses...

 

Well, low and behold, the whole time, these past 2 1/2 years included, the affair continued.. And my husband is living with the other woman at the moment...

 

We are now getting a divorice......

 

 

Be careful... You are confused becasue you care for him, you love the feeling that you have with him when things are good. But he is not a grown man, and neither is my husband. They have issues that are their own and they will not be able to have a real relationship with anyone untill those issues are adressed, which they may never really be.... If they have a pattern of behavoir, which is disrespectful, and are capible of escapisum and dealing with there issues in an unhealthy way, like affairs etc.. Then that WILL CONTINUE, untill they get help, and realize what causes them to seek escape. Why they can not be content in a comitet relationship with ordinary life rutiens, etc... What they want out of life, and if there expectations of life are just to high... (like happienss every day in a relationship, not posible) They need to deal with themselves... They come to us because we are COMFORTABLE, they want us to LOVE them and NEED them, it makes THEM feel good.... It's inabiling the TAKER in them, because they take and then they leave, and take and then they leave untill there is no more to take...

 

Now they may love us.. I know my stbxh loves me.. But he is so used to not "SEEING" me as a person that he is not going to SEE what I actually mean to him untill he no longer has me. And still I feel that it will take him years after that, after he is done supresing all of his feelings and runing away from his actions, and just life... And stopes haveing a pitty party for one, and starts dealing with reality, instead of fantacy, and escapisum.....

 

So yes they love us, and because we want that sooo bad, we want them to want us, to need us to love us.. That we give still, to the taker, we give and give and give..... There is a point though, where you have to say enough.. Put up boundries, for yourself.. Tell yourself, NO this is not going to get any better... WHY , because they can not have a healthy relationship... Not now, and maybe never... It's very sad and very hard. But this pattern that you are getting your self into to, has no good outcome...

 

Be there for eachother as friends if you can.. And take a wait and see aproch with him.. You dont' have to have the door closed all the way, but consider it closed untill he shows change in his life in a real lasting way that you can see with your own eyes for real. That may mean that you will move on from him and that is ok, and he may move on from you. But that is ok, because the reality is, you can not have a relationship that is worth a hill of beans if the other partner is not a WHOLE person on there own, and can respect you in a way that you crave to be respected... You are going to have to learn like I did, that you can't have HIM make you feel VALIDATED, as a person.. Yes you wish he did xyz, or felt xyz, and when you see a glimpse of it, you grab at it, because thats what you want.. But it's not really... Because it's only partly real....

 

Be strong.. Regardless of what happens with your ex, you will benifit from your strengh.. Either he will respect it, and be like, dam, I never "SAW" her like this before, and WANT to make real changes in his life, and want to really make things right for you... Or you will benifit, by knowing that you did what you could, and respected yourself enough, to say that's enough... Either way you win, even if you are not getting everything that you think, or thought you wanted....

 

I'm haveing a hard time right now, with that reality.. Wow after 15 years, and me still wishing we could work on our marriage and have what I thought we both wanted, well it's just not going to happen... I have to swallow it, and just deal...

 

I'm at a point though, probably because I already went through what you are , well where, I just don't want drama.. I don't want him to come over and try something with me, or any of that. I don't need it, and don't want it. That doesn't mean I don't love him the same, or I wouldn't like that closness, etc.. Because I do and I would... But I just can't go down that road again. And I can't feel crazy like that again. And I know to much now, to ever put myself in that position again...

 

Hugs, and I hope this post helped a little...

 

Oh and the yo yo behavior, will continue, because he doesn't know his own head.. Just act like nothing effects you, even though it hurts, there is nothing you can do about HIS behavoir, you are only in control of your own behaovior, and your own reactions...

 

UB

[Antha]

grrl -- you are right; if this were any other person, I wouldn't have acted so foolishly. I don't think if this were some random guy that I'd put up with it. The first 6 times (yes, HIGHLY ashamed to say "the first SIX") times were oral for him. Yeah, selfish. But, stupid of me to fall for it. The first 5 occasions happened right after I filed. I still don't know why I did that.

 

ub -- you're right. Your story sounds a lot like mine, minus the 4 kids. I feel like if I do this right and heed sound advice, I could avoid all the pain and grief that you experienced. I am surprised at how good I am doing...and then I feel so ashamed of my weak moments and all the emotional progress I've made feels like I'm doing the "one step forward, two steps back" shuffle.

 

I think that I will come out of this just fine if I can be more self-disciplined. I know that talking to him on the phone as a friend is not healthy. Not right now, anyway. It's too fresh and it satisfies his need for the friendship. The sex and the sexual stuff -- it HAS to stop. I don't need to catch something from his live-in girlfriend (actually, he moved into her trailer, or as he calls it "manufactured home". She lives in a park -- they may call it a manufactured home, but the fact of the matter is that this girl thinks so is so great because she owns her own "home" and bought her little trailer all by herself. I REALLY hate this girl. Not JUST because she is a homewrecking slut, but because of her over-inflated ego and acting high and mighty and superior to me. Although it sounds egotistical, she is not half the woman I am and she never will be. She is trying to BE me--and she can't. I'm a nice, generous person because that's the way I am, not to get what I want).

 

Sorry about that, I really, really don't like her and the way she's trying to make a mealticket out of my estranged husband and try to secure Daddy #2 for her own daughter. HE HAS A DAUGHTER ALREADY! Just the other day, J told me that B's daughter told him that she wanted J to be her stepdaddy. I was thoroughly sickened.

 

Anyway, that's all from me tonight.

 

Antha

[Gunny376]

Your problem is that you're being "weak-minded" and "weak-willed. Both of you have let these so-called "men" walk all over YOU, and use and abuse you! What in the Hell is your problem? What's your major malfunction? These so called "men" don't care about YOU and what is more is they don't care about their children ~ their famlies! All they care about is running around letting the wrong "head" do their thinking for them.

 

They have no honor, no integrity ~ no code! Things got hard ~ things got tough ~ and they ran off and got with and started scroggin the first thing that they could scare up. Just freaking walked the f**k out, forget it, let the wife deal with all the BS, the kids, the bills, the house! Daddy's going to play ~ and let Mama pay ~ through the freaking nose!

 

I'm just curious, if either of you were your daughter ~ and they were with some freaking azzhat like your husbands would you stand there and let it happen! I think not! If my SIL tried pulling this stunt oin my DD, I'd be on his azz like a pack of dogs on a three legged cat!

 

You had best get your head and azz wired together ~ quick, fast and in a hurry like. This old boy is using and abusing you ~ and is in effect treating you like you're nothing more than his own personal VLSS ~ Vaginal Life Support System. Real men don't view, nor treat women like that!

 

You need to dump this clown like he was a freaking bad habit. If you by some odd chance and reason want to reconcile with him ~ then tell him fine azzhat. Here's the deal. And, then give him a laundry list of things that's got to happen and that's got to go down, and if not then there's no deal.

 

As far as having sex with him ~ well, its just like your Dear Mom told you when you were a little girl! "Don't put that in your mouth ~ you don't know where its been!"

 

If he comes back around wanting sex, tell him to go climb up a chicken's azz and wait!

 

And, I've got to ask you ~ what's so freaking great about this clown that you can't go and find you just as good as if not better, just as much of if not more? What's this idiot got that the other 150 million other men in the United States hasn't got? And,if that's a a good enough or big enough selection ~ what's he got that the other 3 billion other men on the planet don't have? There's no shortage of men! The freaking place is freaking covered up with them. And, why is it that you think you don't deseve better ~ and even if you can't or won't go and find yourself someone who's going to appreciate what you've got to offer and bring to the table ~ so freaking what? That's the end of the world? That's the end of civilzation as we know it? Sex? News Flash for you! There's going to come a time like most women when you won't care about it, and men can't. Besides if your just in it for the sex ~ you're in it for all the wrong reasons.

[Ladyjane14]

I need a drill sergeant to stop me from calling him.

 

Well honey... you got one. Now all you have to do is LISTEN to him.

 

People will treat you like you let them, right? If you're letting this guy treat you bad, ultimately... you ALLOW the behavior.

 

What you've got to decide now is.... do you have a man or a mouse? And if he's a mouse... best to put him out and let the cat have him. Simple.

 

 

 

(Standing ovation, Gunny. I don't know HOW some Alabama gal hasn't snapped you up yet. )

[unbreakable]

Gunny,

 

I really like your straight forward kick ass aprouch, it's great, but I want to clearify that there is nothing wrong with me, and I'm sure nothing wrong with her either..

 

People do weird things when they are confused about why the hell everything changed. And I think those that got together real young, well have an atachment regardless of healthy or not, that is maybe harder to just let go... I don't know it's a whole lot of physcological crap.... But it is crap. You are seeing the black and whight of it, but there is a whole lot of grey. And well it's hard to see through the grey and except it for what it is. These guys need counsiling that's for sure.. That doesn't mean that there bad people. But it does mean that they are not equipt to have a healthy relationship untill they deal with there issues...

 

There are a lot of other guys, that's for sure. But It takes time when your so sure that their the one, well to let go of that, I don't know how else to explain it. I don't want just any other guy. And for me, well I'm going to have a relationship with myself for a long time before I even consider another go around...

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with us. Theres a process that you go through when your dealing with someone you love, that well clearly has issues, and it makes you hang on, because you want the relationship that you have sometimes, to be the relationship you have all the time. So hope I guess blinds you from reality, that the relationship is what it is, and it will not be any better, because they just aren't fully the person that you think they are... That's it...

 

After all of this, I'm still going through a hard time emotionaly.. I'm acsepting of it all, but it's hard admiting, dam it just couldn't work, it wasn't what I thought. It's a hard thing to except, but it is what it is.

 

And both of us deserve to be treated better, and like a valued partner.... Haveing hope, or being understanding, doesn't mean there is something wrong with us. But it did inable there behavior didn't it....

 

I agree, no one should be putting up with this, especialy with an ex partner... It's to crazy, and it's just going to hurt you more. And everyone diserves more then that crap...

 

Antha,

 

Good luck.... If you guys can be friends then that's great, but don't focus on that right now. Just live your life.

 

The other woman is always like that, it's just the way it is. I'm the same way I don't dislike her for the reasons most would think. I dislike her for the reasons you mentioned and more. It's just the mintality of them for some reason. I think they have very low self esteam, and need to feel good by someone elses pain, or at someone elses expence. Don't worry about her, or why your ex is with her... And don't let all this bum you out. It is what it is, and it has nothing to do with you, it's all about him, that's why it's selfish, and why all of this is and has happend. It has nothing to do with her being better, or you being lacking in anything....

 

Be strong and you will be happy...

 

hugs,

UB

[Antha]

It is what it is, and it has nothing to do with you, it's all about him, that's why it's selfish, and why all of this is and has happend. It has nothing to do with her being better, or you being lacking in anything....

 

Your right. His actions haven't been about me in a LONG time. He tells people that HE pulled away because I was "emotionally neglecting him". No. I started reacting and being sad because HE was acting selfish and pulling away and shutting me out. He never mentioned not being happy in the marriage. In fact, he PROMISED repeatedly that he was just stressed out and that his behavior had NOTHING to do with me whatsoever. I think that's true, in a way: his actions had everything to do with the fact that HE wanted to be selfish.

 

Only after I finally filed divorce papers did he suddenly fabricate this "reason" for treating me how he did, locking me and the baby in the house, and suddenly having to drink all our money away at the bars and spend the night at the cousin's house all the time.

 

J insisted that B (the girl he's living with and he doesn't pay rent) was just a friend, but he hid her existence because he "knew" that I would get upset. No. I can be totally honest with myself and still say that I'm not a typically jealous person. Him having a female friend wouldn't have bothered me. The fact is, she was always out at the bar with him, dancing with him, hanging out with him, and talked to him in secret on his cell phone more than I ever got to talk to him. He was talking to her almost every day for months...don't tell me that that's "just a friend".

 

I was not allowed to join his good time at the bar with him, but B was allowed to. He wouldn't dance with me in the privacy of our own home, but he could be out there dancing with B? And I know how he is when he is drunk--he's VERY affectionate and touchy-feely.

 

I told him: "If B was 'just a friend', then as a friend, why didn't she tell you that she didn't want to be a hidden secret, a LIE, between us? Why would she agree to hide her existence as your friend if there was nothing going on between you two? If she was a true, real friend (and not some trailer trash whore), she would have told you she respected you and your marriage and would not cause problems in the marriage. She would have said that instead of hanging out with her and talking to her all the time, you should be with your wife and child. She would have said, "As your friend, I'm not willing to jeopardize your marriage" "

 

No matter how much he continues to deny that he was having some type of affair with her, I'M NOT AN IDIOT. He seems to think that I am. Who does he move in with 2 days after I file? Who does he end up having him suck him and **** him shortly after that? Who is he STILL living with?

 

Then, she's knocking me and saying I'm divorcing him because I want MONEY --- NOOOOOO. I want my husband, the guy he was before you set out the p*$$y bait. I want my family together. I don't WANT to have to get help from the FIA. I don't want to have a crap, unreliable vehicle and live in a crowded house and have to do everything by myself and for myself. It beats being in tears every night, but yeah, I wish I could have the man who wasn't selfish, who thought of me first, who understood and appreciated everything about me--including my flaws, who loved me for me...

 

I REALLY hate that he has his whole family onboard thinking I divorced him "on a whim" or for money. WHAT MONEY? Me and my daughter are surviving on the kindness of my mom and my sister and assistance from the state. We're barely scraping by (although we have more money than when I was living with him -- he was spending it all on his fun times). Why would I deliberately put myself in a difficult situation and leave the comfort of my home and leave my marriage on a ****ing whim?! Seriously.

 

I am divorcing him because he wasn't happy and neither was I. I am divorcing him because I don't believe in "staying together for the children". I am divorcing him because despite the fact that I love him, the pain of his rejection and resentment and ill treatment of me and our family is too much for any person to take. I am divorcing him because he has not been faithful, he has not been kind, and he has forsaken many of his marriage vows in the short time since our daughter has been born. I'm divorcing him because it is the right thing to do. I am 100%, okay, maybe 95% sure, that I made the RIGHT decision and that if I had stayed, I would still be miserable and weeping in despair every night.

 

Why do they always delight in conveying themselves as "being everything he needs" and as an "innocent, bystanding victim" in this when they know damn well they are a skanky little piece of crap? Why try to villianize the wife, who has been nothing but devoted, loving and faithful to her husband? So, leaving an unhappy marriage is me being selfish? Whatever, so be it.

 

I hate that pseudo-ME girl and all of her kind. Can't build a life of her own. No, she has to appropriate MY life--my husband and is now even trying to pretend that when my daughter is with J that my daughter is HER daughter and that THEY are a happy little family...visiting cider mills and trick-or-treating together and going out to eat together like a family. My husband's mistress, no anyone is, will EVER REPLACE ME AS 'Mommy'. I wish this girl would just **** off. Mother is God in the eyes of children, and my daughter is a mommy's girl. It REALLY irks me that this woman seeks to replace me in every way. It's not enough that she has replaced me as wife, lover, roommate. No, she has to try and play like THEY are a family and SHE is my daughter's mother. It is ****ing SICK.

 

I'm sorry, just had to rant a little. I think I hate her more than anyone I have ever met. I'm not NEARLY as pissed at J as I am at this fat, usurping redheaded piece of low-class loser. Oh, I still hate what he did. I hate his ACTIONS. But her? I hate everything about her? She is a fake person and she DESERVES everything she's got coming to her...and that's just karma, not a threat.

 

Antha