Continued Quest

[peacelove]

How does a betrayed spouse stay with a man (her husband) that has cheated on her? I am trying to understand that. My ex husband cheated on me with 3 other women. I packed myself & my son & daughter up & moved out. I would not have it.

[herenow]

How does a betrayed spouse stay with a man (her husband) that has cheated on her? I am trying to understand that. My ex husband cheated on me with 3 other women. I packed myself & my son & daughter up & moved out. I would not have it.

 

Great question. I never thought I would stay with my H after I found out about his affair. The best thing that happened is that our MC asked me to wait two months before filing for divorce.

 

In those two months, I started to see what was wrong in our marriage. I began to understand why the affire happened. I saw things in myself and my H that needed to be discussed. Yes, he should have come to me, but he made the wrong choice to find his needs elsewhere. I don't know if I can ever forgive him for that. Time will tell as it has been less than a year.

 

In my case, my marriage was neglected. We had kids, both of us have our own business, we had increased financial responsibilities. Life got in the way of our marriage. The biggest problem is my independence. My H didn't feel that I needed him, so he found a very needy OW to fill that need. Now that we know that, we have found ways to deal with it.

 

Will our marriage work? I don't know yet, but I'm willing to try. So, how can I stay? I can stay because I have accepted responsibility for my own actions. I know that if I stay and he cheats again, it was my choice and I only have myself to blame. We got married because we fell in love. If there is a possibility of making that love work again, it's worth the effort. I will guarantee you one thing, if he ever cheats again, it's over, no questions asked. And I am fully prepared for anything to happen.

[herenow]

How does a betrayed spouse stay with a man (her husband) that has cheated on her? I am trying to understand that. My ex husband cheated on me with 3 other women. I packed myself & my son & daughter up & moved out. I would not have it.

 

Another answer to this question is for the kids. When I first went to MC with my H, the therapist asked me to wait to file for divorce because we had young kids. She said that we owed it to our family to try and make it work. I still had every intent to get divorced after the 2 months, but I thought: what do I have to lose by waiting two months? I did owe it to my kids.

 

The therapist agreed that if we could not make it work, it would be better for everyone if we got divorced and we could then change the focus of our sessions to helping the kids adjust. So, I have to say that in the beginning, I stayed for the kids, but after a short while I realized that I only wanted to be with him if he truly loves me and I love him. This is where we are now, trying to make it work for us. We have been in MC for almost 8 months and there is a lot of work to do.

 

However, some people do stay or the kids. Look at yousaveme for example.

[Tomtabear]

In my situation there are no kids involved. And as far as trust I have known my MM over ten years. It did start out as just a sexual affair between already friends but has grown because we can talk to each other more than to our spouses. There is always some guilt involved. We are human. I don't feel guilty for loving him but for not being in love with my husband. As far as the W goes I would probably feel some guilt about being with her MM if she treated him the way he should be treated. And would quit doing drugs. I think until you've been in the situation yourself you will never truely understand.

[Guest]

You don't have a problem being the OW because you really don't feel that you are doing anything wrong. You think that the problem is in the marriage and you are an innocent bystander. The MM is lying, you're not. You don't feel that your actions have hurt the W or the marriage, that's the MM responsibility and you have no reason to be concerned with his responsibilities.

 

herenow

 

that's the thing. there is no deception with the h and w either. but ow have taken on the mm projection to make it so. the deception is from the h TO the w, not both doing it to each other (at least not most of the time).

 

what most ow don't know is that while the mm is in the A and it starts to get longer or more intense, the mm is at home emotionally neglecting his family and other duties. some mm make up arguments just so they can have an excuse to leave or run off and talk to ow. ow doesn't think much of it as long as she gets to spend time with mm. but when the w finally starts putting one and one together and getting two - all hell breaks loose.

 

the w is upset with the ow because the ow knew what he was doing to be with her and did it anyway.

 

and for yousaveme, as long as he spends each night at home with his w, you are still on the side. his m still exists as his primary relationship. i personally wouldn't want to be involved with a man that has a fallback relationship he can return to - even if he claims not to want it. he is still there.

[erika2610]

Every situation is different. I was in such a weird place that I conveniently didn't look at him as the cheater he is. Of course, I never fully trusted him because of it though. Therefore, I was not really in love with him.

 

At the time though I sure thought I was. If you can get satisfactory explanations on how I could actually feel THAT, you'd probably be rich!

 

Now I think I'm the one who needs therapy because I have so much hatred in me that it is just unhealthy. I hate that he got off scot-free, his life is completely unaffected. I find myself fantasizing about ways to ruin his life and career.

 

Every time I have to listen to him being chummy, joking with co-workers, I just seethe inside. If they only knew!

 

But I can't do anything about it. Just have to sit, be a grown-up, take my lumps and pray like hell for karma to step in and do her thing.

 

My gawd woman. Are you my long lost twin, and we were both dating the same MM? 99% of the time when I read your posts in this forum, I wonder that. Your MM sounds just like mine, and you sound just like I did. Kinda freaky.

[Chapter2]

HN, can you change your account so that you can accept private messages? I would like to honestly answer your question but I would like to PM you with it.

 

In my continued quest for understanding the OW, I have this question. How do you deal with the fact that your relationship is deceitful?

 

Some of you say you know the W, some of you say that the wife already knows you, and some say that they have no idea who the wife is and your affair is a secret. In any case, there is a wife and she is being cheated on by her H with you. If there are kids, your affair could have a serious impact on their lives.

 

Why is it so hard to tell a MM to deal with his current marriage before being with you? I would think that the guilt (talking for myself here) would make the whole affair unenjoyable. I would always be thinking about the W and kids.

 

Also, how is it that you can have so much love and trust for a man that is a proven liar? Unless you are in it for sex only, how are you are able to have true feelings for someone that is lying in order to be with you? Why do you wait for the MM to keep promises when he has already broken the biggest relationship promise one can make? How can you respect a man that cheats on his wife?

 

Please, please help me understand.

[erika2610]

HN, can you change your account so that you can accept private messages? I would like to honestly answer your question but I would like to PM you with it.

 

I think you both need a certain number of posts to get PM priviliges..

[Chapter2]

I have PM priviliges...you have to enable them or pay a $2.50 a month fee for a membership.

 

I think you both need a certain number of posts to get PM priviliges..

[erika2610]

I have PM priviliges...you have to enable them or pay a $2.50 a month fee for a membership.

 

If you're not a paying member, you either need to have a certain number of posts, or be here a certain amount of time.

[Spinderella]

As a BW, I believed that my H was completely committed to me at the same time as he was having an affair. He is able to compartmentalize. He said in MC that he was able to put his family aside mentally while he was with the OW. He said that if he was thinking about us, he would not have been able to be with her. On the other side, he said that once he left her, that door was closed and he was able to come home and be with us.

 

I think that everybody involved in an affair and the aftermath is participating in deception, and mostly self deception, as I think the above paragraph may illustrate. Not to say that the above is not the truth, but it may not be the whole truth. There have been better examples from other BW, and herenow sounds pretty together, so it may not be a good example.

The OW is also self deceptive, she usually knows the truth, somewhere inside, that the MM does not love her enough, and he still loves his wife. Whatever the OW says, she is usually suffering from either commitment issues, or temporary self hatred, lack of self esteem. She might deny this as a further act of self deception.

The MM, well I suppose he is in the addiction, and decieves himself out of the guilt for both women. The addiction may cause him to go out of his way to keep the OW around by professing more feelings and promises than he means because he knows he has to work harder to keep her around, after all, he has so little to really offer her...

So that is my take on things, nobody really evil, just a few people messed up. I believe that the majority of OW are trying to face up to the truth, and may take more backwards than forward steps at times. Also the majority of MM are trying to overcome the addiction. The relationship will usually last until either OW or MM have worked through whatever is keeping them in self deception/addiction, or until the BW discovers the truth, and the reality of the situation hits MM or OW.

[frannie]

In my continued quest for understanding the OW, I have this question. How do you deal with the fact that your relationship is deceitful?

 

Some of you say you know the W, some of you say that the wife already knows you, and some say that they have no idea who the wife is and your affair is a secret. In any case, there is a wife and she is being cheated on by her H with you. If there are kids, your affair could have a serious impact on their lives.

 

Why is it so hard to tell a MM to deal with his current marriage before being with you? I would think that the guilt (talking for myself here) would make the whole affair unenjoyable. I would always be thinking about the W and kids.

 

Also, how is it that you can have so much love and trust for a man that is a proven liar? Unless you are in it for sex only, how are you are able to have true feelings for someone that is lying in order to be with you? Why do you wait for the MM to keep promises when he has already broken the biggest relationship promise one can make? How can you respect a man that cheats on his wife?

 

 

How do you deal with the fact that your relationship is deceitful?

 

My relationship with him isn't deceitful, as far as I'm aware. He has no real reason to lie to me about anything, as far as I can see. I think trust is an interesting subject. We can put our trust in someone knowing that, people being people, they can let us down. I think it's sensible to understand that, and still trust someone. Because what else is there? There are no guarantees. And "A promise is a comfort to a fool!, as the saying goes.

 

There is a wife... if there are children etc.

 

I don't know the wife, and there are children involved. I have gone through periods of worrying that somehow she'll find out and that people will be hurt. I've told him how I feel about that. When it comes down to it, that is his responsibility. He is the one taking the risk with people he is supposed to be caring for. Though I'm not uninvolved in that... I don't consider that it's my responsibility, and I don't feel any guilt in this respect. Of course, IF the affair was discovered, I'd probably feel a lot differently.

 

Why is it so hard to tell a MM to deal with his M before being with you?

 

It's not hard to ask someone to deal with their marriage first. What is hard is getting the timing right, making the right decisions. I don't know a MM who would just walk out on his family because he 'wasn't getting his needs met'. All this we hear about 'ending the marriage first before getting involved with someone else' really is pie in the sky in my opinion. It takes a whole lot of something for a man to walk away from a marriage. That might be 'wrong' or inconvenient or messy or immoral (looked at from one perspective), but that's how it is.

 

How can you have so much love and trust for a man who is a proven liar?

 

I think people lie for different reasons in different situations. Lying to someone you're in a committed relationship with is ridiculous and devisive. You can't have a decent relationship based on lies. My MM considers his relationship with his wife is beyond repair, and he has no desire or will to mend it. Lying in that situation isn't pleasant, it's not something to be proud of, but (to my mind) it's perfectly understandable. If he still loved her, still cared for her, still wanted to remain with her and yet lied to her I'd have a very different opinion of him and his views on making successful relationships.

 

Why do you wait for MM to keep promises to you when he has already broken the biggest relationship promise..?

 

My MM hasn't made me any promises, so I'm not fearful that he'll break any. Yes, he did promise to love and honour and all that, but so did she. It takes two to mess up a relationship and I think they've done a stunning job of that between them. Not only with infidelity, but with lack of communication, respect, tenderness and in a dozen other areas. People seem always to concentrate on infidelity, when withdrawing of emotional support can be just as harmful to a relationship as anything. So, I don't think he can be held solely to blame for the demise of their marriage.

 

How can you respect a man who cheats on his wife?

 

Neither he nor I agree that cheating is a good thing. It's not an act which commands respect at all. However, as with most things, I can take an aspect of behaviour in isolation and not apply it to the whole person. He may have cheated on his wife, but he's also stuck around for his children and puts them first in everything to the best of his beliefs. Other people may view the situation differently but... that's entirely up to them.

[frannie]

I disagree with you that the deception does not included the OW.

 

No matter what, the MM is a liar and the OW knows this to be true. The only way that an OW is not deceiving the W is if the MM is lying to the OW about being married. What makes a OW believe that a MM is being truthful in words and actions to her, when he is still married and living with his W?

 

As a BW, I believed that my H was completely committed to me at the same time as he was having an affair. He is able to compartmentalize. He said in MC that he was able to put his family aside mentally while he was with the OW. He said that if he was thinking about us, he would not have been able to be with her. On the other side, he said that once he left her, that door was closed and he was able to come home and be with us.

 

The fact is that the OW is part of the deception in all ways. She know that he H is lying to his W and that the affair is based on that lie. She has made a choice to be part of the MM deception.

 

How is it that the W contributes to the deception if she isn't even aware of what is going on?

 

I don't think anyone would mean that the W was contributing to the deception. I think people mean that the relationship in which the deception is taking place is between the BS and the MM. The MM is decieving his W. Of course you're right in saying that the MM could also be deceiving the OW, if he promises to leave, and so on. Or even about being married at all.

 

The OW is 'part of the deception' in some ways, yes. But morally, it's debatable what part the OW should/n't have in the truth-telling or deception. Bottom line is the one that says the OW shouldn't be involved at all with the MM (and therefore she's not part of a deception), but there's another argument which is often trotted out about the OW having a moral obligation to tell (or not tell) the W what has been going on.

[frannie]

Through many conversations with my H in and out of MC, I have begun to understand why his affair happened. That is something that I thought I would never understand. Because of that, I'm willing to open my mind to understand the OW which is another thing I thought I would never be able to do.

 

If anyone cares, I would be willing to help an OW understand what goes on in the minds of a MM and a BW. I think I owe it to myself to do my best to understand all aspects of this situation. If I don't then I will carry this hatred with me and that is not a good feeling.

 

The thing is, that in affairs (perhaps with the exception of the MM or MW, though that is debatable), we all only see part of the picture. You have been to MC with your H now, and he's telling you how he sees what happened now in retrospect... but is this 'the objective truth' of the matter.. (if indeed there is such a thing)?

 

There are many similarities in all affairs, but there are also many differences. Your H says that he was committed to both women at the time of the affair. That isn't always the case.

 

At the very most, you can relate what your H said in your presence after the affair was over and he'd chosen to be with you.

[frannie]

Do you ever think about how hurt his wife is or would be if she doesn't already know?

 

Personally, yes I do. I don't think MM has any notion of how (I feel) her world would be rocked by finding out what he's doing. I don't know why that is... he's not an unkind, unfeeling person. My guess is that he is so unhappy with what's become of their relationship, and her part in its demise, that he no longer really cares that she may get hurt, and he's willing to take that chance... because he feels he deserves some happiness.

 

As I said in my earlier response: that is his call. It's his marriage, his relationship: he lives with her, he knows her, and I don't.

[frannie]

OMG, I get it! I just had an epiphany!

 

You don't have a problem being the OW because you really don't feel that you are doing anything wrong. You think that the problem is in the marriage and you are an innocent bystander. The MM is lying, you're not. You don't feel that your actions have hurt the W or the marriage, that's the MM responsibility and you have no reason to be concerned with his responsibilities.

 

I'm really not trying to be mean here, but it all makes so much sense. That is why some people here say that the deception and lying is happening in the marriage and they can remove themselves from any guilt and continue the affair.

 

Thank you so much for answering, I really do understand. I definitely don't agree, but I do understand.

 

Hmm... looks like I should have read the whole thread before replying.

 

I think there are two things here: believing you're doing wrong, and having responsibility in another person's marriage. And they are separable.

 

I am certainly having an affair with a MM, and I am certainly (something like) complicit in the cheating, and the deception of another woman. And that does make me feel bad. Because I think about how I'd feel if I were in her shoes.

 

However, I don't feel that it is my responsibility either to back out of that, or to tell her, or anything else for that matter. Their marriage is between them. I don't know her, or what she's like. I have no idea if she even loves him, respects him, or cares one iota for him. IF she had raised doubts about his whereabouts, become upset at seeing him less, or anything that said to me that she was distressed in any way by the way he was acting, then I'd feel differently... Of course I know very little of what goes on, but ... it's her marriage. She seems fine with something cold and distant... I can't understand that.

 

At the back of my mind always is: she doesn't seem to want this part of him... WHY?

[a4a]

Very interesting tidbit on the Today Show about the Married Man Syndrome just a moment ago......

 

Google the today show and read it.......

 

Sorry I am heading out the door and cannot take the time to provide further info.

[PoshPrincess]

I am certainly having an affair with a MM, and I am certainly (something like) complicit in the cheating, and the deception of another woman. And that does make me feel bad. Because I think about how I'd feel if I were in her shoes.

 

However, I don't feel that it is my responsibility either to back out of that, or to tell her, or anything else for that matter.

 

That's pretty much how I felt with my ex-MM. Of course, I could see that what WE were doing was morally wrong but, yes, I thought it was his responsibility not mine. She was HIS W, HE was the one who promised to 'love, honour and forsake all others'. I wasn't the one breaking the vows. I guess I convinced myself that we were so in love, it was meant to be, etc, etc.....

 

Their marriage is between them. I don't know her, or what she's like. I have no idea if she even loves him, respects him, or cares one iota for him.

 

I was told by my ex-MM that he had been unhappy for a long time but hadn't felt the inclination to do anything about it until I came along. I DO still believe that he loved me, possibly still does, but he DID feel guilty and knew he had a moral obligation to his kids (the reason he said he was staying).

 

IF she had raised doubts about his whereabouts, become upset at seeing him less, or anything that said to me that she was distressed in any way by the way he was acting, then I'd feel differently... Of course I know very little of what goes on, but ... it's her marriage. She seems fine with something cold and distant... I can't understand that.

 

My ex-MMs W found out about our A after about 4 months which was awful. It was only then that she became a 'real' person I suppose. Before that I had had nothing to do with her so could pretend she existed. It was only after speaking to her that it changed. However, I can't understand why she is still with him after what he's done. Saying that, he was never honest with her about our relationship. Ours was an EA rather than PA (because he felt so guilty - I suppose in not sleeping with me he could pretend to himself that he wasn;t technically cheating) so he wasn't lying about not sleeping with me; he just totally played down our A, which he says was mainly because he didn't want to hurt the kids (his W told them what had happened and even showed their teenage daughter explicit texts we had sent each other. I reallt CAN'T understand how anyone could do that to their own child - can someone please enlighten me?)

 

7 months after the end of our A and one month with full NC I still cannot understand why any of it happened, or why we continued to let it happen particularly after W found out, other than that we thought we loved each other. I know I should have ended it there and then but thought I could handle things and believed that he would be with me. I still believe I loved him. Of course, I will NEVER know whether he was truthful with me about his M, just as his W will never know the full truth about me I suppose.

[BenThereDunThat]

My gawd woman. Are you my long lost twin, and we were both dating the same MM? 99% of the time when I read your posts in this forum, I wonder that. Your MM sounds just like mine, and you sound just like I did. Kinda freaky.

 

Hi Erika! Know what's so funny? When I first started coming here, every story made me wonder if they weren't talking about my exMM.

 

That's when it dawned on me that the majority of these guys are all alike. They all have the same script. Mine tried to tell me that we were different, and I actually believed him for about 5 minutes.

 

Back when I was ending things and kept slamming him with emails, that's one of the things I told him. I didn't mention this site, but that I found a place and that just about EVERY story is the same. They all start the same and end the same. So don't try to tell me that you're DIFFERENT, because you're not. Either you really want to think you are or you want me to believe that you are. Either way, you're delusional.

 

All he could say to that was "I'm sorry."

 

Pretty pathetic.

[NearlyThere]

I googled this and found some pretty interesting things. However I came accross this and found it very interesting.

 

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Seduction-of-a-Married-Man&id=6846

 

(hope your allowed to post external links on here, sorry if not)

 

Dont be put off by the title its not how to seduce a married man, its more how alot of affairs begin.

 

Here are some snippits: All taken from the above site:

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Men are pretty unconscious about what makes them attractive.

According to most women it is not their looks that make them attractive, it is who they are and how they produce in the world. So this married man goes to work and comes home and goes back to work the next day. At work there is this woman. She is single, attractive, smart, capable, speaks his language andsomeone who has time to pay attention to him. It starts as an innocent flirtation. What goes through his mind is something like "Let's see if I still have it!" so he starts flirting just to see what happens. Not a surprise, she responds to the flirting by flirting back.

This is the beginning of the affair.

 

What is true about the woman who gets involved with a married man is that she is looking for attention and affection.

Most likely she is not looking for a married man with whom she is plotting to have an affair. There are a few predatory women out there who do just that but the majority of affairs start out naively. She is likely to have been previously hurt in a relationship. She may or may not know that the man is married. What occurs first is she recognizes that he is paying attention to her. He may just listen to her. It may just be a momentary encounter where their eyes meet and a connection is made. They may be working together on a project and either of them may distinguish themselves in some way. What initially happens is likely to be chemistry. What happens after that varies, however, it usually follows this pattern.

When the woman discovers that he is married, she will make it clear that she doesn't have relationships with married men.

 

That is the signal for the man to go into conquest mode.

 

She continues to say no and the more she says no, the more aggressive and charming and attentive he gets. This is the ultimate male challenge, to win over a woman who is saying no even though he knows she really is attracted to him.

A married man will work harder than any available man to make a woman fall in love with him.

 

He will be more charming, loving, attentive and wonderful than a woman can imagine that any man can be.

 

Either she will end it and go off to nurse her broken heart, wondering how he could have been so wonderful and such a heel atthe same time, or she will continue the affair and settle forbeing the other woman in his life. Either way the woman is damaged. The man will go back to his wife who was either completely unaware of the romantic drama or who also chooses to settle by living in denial of his infidelity. Then life goes on.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

There is obviously alot more than the bits I have put on and not all of it is particulary applicable to my situ, however there are some things I just had to smile at, not ha ha funny smile more wry.

 

Also goes along way to explain how some OW end up being an OW and also might help answer the posters orginal qustion. If not still makes an interesting read.

[BenThereDunThat]

Thank you for posting this. I feel like she was personally talking about me!

 

Yep, she nailed it.

 

This is definitely a keeper.

[noforgiveness]

I dont not remove myself from the guilt. Yes i have guilt but i chose to deal with it. I love him, he loves me. No its not a perfect picture. But we make it work.

 

He isnt into making the marriage work. He is into making me and him work and has made this clear on many of occasions in words and actions.

 

As for the marriage its dead and was dead long before me.

The only thing i have done is make him see a future, and the future includes me.

 

as for the lieing , yes he has lied and continues to lie to her. That lie is for the kids. Even if its wrong he does it for his kids happiness.

 

No he doesnt lie to me...And yes i know and see the proof.

 

Im sure i will now be consider and evil heartless person. But that is okay because those who know me otherwise would beg to differ.

 

 

this makes NO SENSE. You say his marriage is OVER. You say he is in it for the kids. You say the wife feels the same but then you say he lies and lies and lies to his wife. Why would he lie to his wife if they agreed the marriage is over? Your MM is telling you what you want to hear to keep you as his little secret on the side.

[yousaveme]

this makes NO SENSE. You say his marriage is OVER. You say he is in it for the kids. You say the wife feels the same but then you say he lies and lies and lies to his wife. Why would he lie to his wife if they agreed the marriage is over? Your MM is telling you what you want to hear to keep you as his little secret on the side.

 

 

You will never understand the situtation.

[noforgiveness]

You will never understand the situtation.

 

 

you are right I will never understand accepting half a man. Not even half. You are getting what is left after his wife and kids.

 

I'm afraid you will come to understand one day what you really mean to him when you are still waiting by the phone or wishing you could call him.

 

Have you read all these sad stories? The heartbreak of the men choosing their families? You are different though right?

 

He goes home to his family every night. How much physical time do you actually have with him?

[stillhere]

Every situation is different, and it is hard to explain.

 

In my case, sadly, i've become accustomed to not having him by my side all the time. I've learned to deal with it and accept it. I'm not saying that i'm happy with it, but for now, i can deal with it.

 

When we have that little bit of hope (false or not), we seem to be able to tolerate the situation until we no longer have the strength to continue with it. I have not hit my breaking point yet. Not sure when i will. Same goes for some of the other women still involved with their MM's. Someday, we will say enough is enough, but for right now, we aren't ready to give up.