Continued Quest

[herenow]

In my continued quest for understanding the OW, I have this question. How do you deal with the fact that your relationship is deceitful?

 

Some of you say you know the W, some of you say that the wife already knows you, and some say that they have no idea who the wife is and your affair is a secret. In any case, there is a wife and she is being cheated on by her H with you. If there are kids, your affair could have a serious impact on their lives.

 

Why is it so hard to tell a MM to deal with his current marriage before being with you? I would think that the guilt (talking for myself here) would make the whole affair unenjoyable. I would always be thinking about the W and kids.

 

Also, how is it that you can have so much love and trust for a man that is a proven liar? Unless you are in it for sex only, how are you are able to have true feelings for someone that is lying in order to be with you? Why do you wait for the MM to keep promises when he has already broken the biggest relationship promise one can make? How can you respect a man that cheats on his wife?

 

Please, please help me understand.

[peacelove]

In my opinion, I don't think you will ever get to the end of your quest, unless you were in a situation such as the ones on this forum. Only then would you get the answers you are looking for. OW do not feel there is deception in thier relationship with a mm. The deception takes place in the marriage between the h & w. As is the lying.

For lack of better words, I hope this helps.

[herenow]

In my opinion, I don't think you will ever get to the end of your quest, unless you were in a situation such as the ones on this forum. Only then would you get the answers you are looking for. OW do not feel there is deception in their relationship with a mm. The deception takes place in the marriage between the h & w. As is the lying.

For lack of better words, I hope this helps.

 

I disagree with you that the deception does not included the OW.

 

No matter what, the MM is a liar and the OW knows this to be true. The only way that an OW is not deceiving the W is if the MM is lying to the OW about being married. What makes a OW believe that a MM is being truthful in words and actions to her, when he is still married and living with his W?

 

As a BW, I believed that my H was completely committed to me at the same time as he was having an affair. He is able to compartmentalize. He said in MC that he was able to put his family aside mentally while he was with the OW. He said that if he was thinking about us, he would not have been able to be with her. On the other side, he said that once he left her, that door was closed and he was able to come home and be with us.

 

The fact is that the OW is part of the deception in all ways. She know that he H is lying to his W and that the affair is based on that lie. She has made a choice to be part of the MM deception.

 

How is it that the W contributes to the deception if she isn't even aware of what is going on?

[yousaveme]

Its a hard situtation and it is equally hard to explain...

 

The quest you are on is never ending and i dont think anyone can give you the answers you are searching for. I am sorry to say.

 

The OW have questions also that we cant get answers for so we might be in different ends , but we are all looking for answers.

[peacelove]

I disagree with you that the deception does not included the OW.

 

No matter what, the MM is a liar and the OW knows this to be true. The only way that an OW is not deceiving the W is if the MM is lying to the OW about being married. What makes a OW believe that a MM is being truthful in words and actions to her, when he is still married and living with his W?

 

As a BW, I believed that my H was completely committed to me at the same time as he was having an affair. He is able to compartmentalize. He said in MC that he was able to put his family aside mentally while he was with the OW. He said that if he was thinking about us, he would not have been able to be with her. On the other side, he said that once he left her, that door was closed and he was able to come home and be with us.

 

The fact is that the OW is part of the deception in all ways. She know that he H is lying to his W and that the affair is based on that lie. She has made a choice to be part of the MM deception.

 

How is it that the W contributes to the deception if she isn't even aware of what is going on?

 

In my situation, he is no longer with his wife. We've been living together for 5 years. His stbxw is also seeing someone. So I really can't give the answers you are looking for. All the affairs here are different.

I noticed that another poster here is really struggling w/her mm still living in the marital home w/the wife. Maybe, just maybe, she has some answers.

[herenow]

Its a hard situtation and it is equally hard to explain...

 

The quest you are on is never ending and i dont think anyone can give you the answers you are searching for. I am sorry to say.

 

The OW have questions also that we cant get answers for so we might be in different ends , but we are all looking for answers.

 

Through many conversations with my H in and out of MC, I have begun to understand why his affair happened. That is something that I thought I would never understand. Because of that, I'm willing to open my mind to understand the OW which is another thing I thought I would never be able to do.

 

If anyone cares, I would be willing to help an OW understand what goes on in the minds of a MM and a BW. I think I owe it to myself to do my best to understand all aspects of this situation. If I don't then I will carry this hatred with me and that is not a good feeling.

[peacelove]

Through many conversations with my H in and out of MC, I have begun to understand why his affair happened. That is something that I thought I would never understand. Because of that, I'm willing to open my mind to understand the OW which is another thing I thought I would never be able to do.

 

If anyone cares, I would be willing to help an OW understand what goes on in the minds of a MM and a BW. I think I owe it to myself to do my best to understand all aspects of this situation. If I don't then I will carry this hatred with me and that is not a good feeling.

 

I would be interested in understanding what goes on in the minds of MM & BW's. Please advise & thank you for your time.

[yousaveme]

Through many conversations with my H in and out of MC, I have begun to understand why his affair happened. That is something that I thought I would never understand. Because of that, I'm willing to open my mind to understand the OW which is another thing I thought I would never be able to do.

 

If anyone cares, I would be willing to help an OW understand what goes on in the minds of a MM and a BW. I think I owe it to myself to do my best to understand all aspects of this situation. If I don't then I will carry this hatred with me and that is not a good feeling.

 

 

I thank you for wanting to help...But the answers i need from the W can only come from her.

 

As for me i cant understand how someone can know that their husband has true feelings of love and caring for someone else continue and stay for the kids. Wouldnt she be more happy to find her happiness with someone else and have her kids see two happy parents verus finding out the what they thought was happy was a lie...

[BenThereDunThat]

In my continued quest for understanding the OW, I have this question. How do you deal with the fact that your relationship is deceitful?

 

Some of you say you know the W, some of you say that the wife already knows you, and some say that they have no idea who the wife is and your affair is a secret. In any case, there is a wife and she is being cheated on by her H with you. If there are kids, your affair could have a serious impact on their lives.

 

Why is it so hard to tell a MM to deal with his current marriage before being with you? I would think that the guilt (talking for myself here) would make the whole affair unenjoyable. I would always be thinking about the W and kids.

 

Also, how is it that you can have so much love and trust for a man that is a proven liar? Unless you are in it for sex only, how are you are able to have true feelings for someone that is lying in order to be with you? Why do you wait for the MM to keep promises when he has already broken the biggest relationship promise one can make? How can you respect a man that cheats on his wife?

 

Please, please help me understand.

 

Every situation is different. I was in such a weird place that I conveniently didn't look at him as the cheater he is. Of course, I never fully trusted him because of it though. Therefore, I was not really in love with him.

 

At the time though I sure thought I was. If you can get satisfactory explanations on how I could actually feel THAT, you'd probably be rich!

 

Now I think I'm the one who needs therapy because I have so much hatred in me that it is just unhealthy. I hate that he got off scot-free, his life is completely unaffected. I find myself fantasizing about ways to ruin his life and career.

 

Every time I have to listen to him being chummy, joking with co-workers, I just seethe inside. If they only knew!

 

But I can't do anything about it. Just have to sit, be a grown-up, take my lumps and pray like hell for karma to step in and do her thing.

[Joelle]

In my opinion, I don't think you will ever get to the end of your quest, unless you were in a situation such as the ones on this forum. Only then would you get the answers you are looking for. OW do not feel there is deception in thier relationship with a mm. The deception takes place in the marriage between the h & w. As is the lying.

For lack of better words, I hope this helps.

 

I agree with this.

[herenow]

OK, so here is what I can tell you about the MM and BW. Yes this is my situation and isn't true for all.

 

While my H was having his affair, I can't tell you honestly, I knew nothing about it. When I found out, I was stunned. I can't find any words to properly describe how I felt. I felt actual pain in my entire body.

As I found out more about the affair, it was like I was dying a slow painful death. Like my entire life had been destroyed. I felt that I could never trust him and our marriage had to end. My world had come crashing down and I didn't know why.

 

The first thing I did was tell him to go to her. That if he wanted to be with her, I didn't want him and he should go. I don't want him to stay for any other reason than he loves me and wants to be with me. I suggested that we go to counseling originally to find the best way to tell the kids that our marriage was over. I promised the therapist that I would wait 2 months before filing for divorce. In my mind, it was over, said and done over. Little did I know that in the two months of counseling, I would be willing to try and make our marriage work.

 

yousaveme, the first thing we did in MC was to make sure that we were there for each other and not for the kids. I agree that kids should have two happy parents and if that means ending the marriage, then that's what needs to happen. Our therapist's point of view is that a couple should try to save the marriage for the sake of the kids, but in the end if it isn't working, it's best to move on. No matter how old they are when they find out, they will resent both parents for lying to them. The biggest problem with staying for the kids is that they become confused about what a healthy relationship is.

 

We have since found what we need to work on in our marriage. Yes, I agree with everyone who says that men don't stray in a perfect marriage. The truth is, no marriage is perfect. If H's and W's don't communicate their needs, they find themselves filling them elsewhere. Sometimes they pour themselves into family or work and sometimes they find it in an affair. Most of the time, the affair has nothing to do with the OW or the OM, but more to do with the needs not met in the marriage. Also, most of the time, it's not about sex.

 

I feel for the OW that gets caught in an affair where the MM knows he will never leave his marriage, but tells the OW what she wants to hear in order to continue the affair. This happens in more cases than not. The MM keeps the OW thinking that there is a future and in reality, once they are caught, the MM will do anything to keep the marriage together. Both the MM and the OW may think that their feelings are real, but in fact they are not. It's like an addiction.

 

The scenario is so typical that it makes me wonder why a woman would get involved with a married man in the first place. Hence, my original post.

 

I know that there are exceptions. There are MM who have affairs and leave to be with the OW. These men get caught and use the affair as a way to exit the marriage. Those who get caught and don't leave will probably never leave.

[yousaveme]

In my situtation she doesnt and he doesnt want to go to marriage counseling. They both are just staying for the kids sake....

 

My question is then what is the point...

[peacelove]

OK, so here is what I can tell you about the MM and BW. Yes this is my situation and isn't true for all.

 

While my H was having his affair, I can't tell you honestly, I knew nothing about it. When I found out, I was stunned. I can't find any words to properly describe how I felt. I felt actual pain in my entire body.

As I found out more about the affair, it was like I was dying a slow painful death. Like my entire life had been destroyed. I felt that I could never trust him and our marriage had to end. My world had come crashing down and I didn't know why.

 

The first thing I did was tell him to go to her. That if he wanted to be with her, I didn't want him and he should go. I don't want him to stay for any other reason than he loves me and wants to be with me. I suggested that we go to counseling originally to find the best way to tell the kids that our marriage was over. I promised the therapist that I would wait 2 months before filing for divorce. In my mind, it was over, said and done over. Little did I know that in the two months of counseling, I would be willing to try and make our marriage work.

 

yousaveme, the first thing we did in MC was to make sure that we were there for each other and not for the kids. I agree that kids should have two happy parents and if that means ending the marriage, then that's what needs to happen. Our therapist's point of view is that a couple should try to save the marriage for the sake of the kids, but in the end if it isn't working, it's best to move on. No matter how old they are when they find out, they will resent both parents for lying to them. The biggest problem with staying for the kids is that they become confused about what a healthy relationship is.

 

We have since found what we need to work on in our marriage. Yes, I agree with everyone who says that men don't stray in a perfect marriage. The truth is, no marriage is perfect. If H's and W's don't communicate their needs, they find themselves filling them elsewhere. Sometimes they pour themselves into family or work and sometimes they find it in an affair. Most of the time, the affair has nothing to do with the OW or the OM, but more to do with the needs not met in the marriage. Also, most of the time, it's not about sex.

 

I feel for the OW that gets caught in an affair where the MM knows he will never leave his marriage, but tells the OW what she wants to hear in order to continue the affair. This happens in more cases than not. The MM keeps the OW thinking that there is a future and in reality, once they are caught, the MM will do anything to keep the marriage together. Both the MM and the OW may think that their feelings are real, but in fact they are not. It's like an addiction.

 

The scenario is so typical that it makes me wonder why a woman would get involved with a married man in the first place. Hence, my original post.

 

I know that there are exceptions. There are MM who have affairs and leave to be with the OW. These men get caught and use the affair as a way to exit the marriage. Those who get caught and don't leave will probably never leave.

 

Herenow, I am in a totally different situation. Yousaveme might have some sort of understanding now, but I wouldn't count on it. It's very hard to see what you are saying from her viewpoint.

But again, I thank you for explaining.

[herenow]

In my situation she doesnt and he doesnt want to go to marriage counseling. They both are just staying for the kids sake....

 

My question is then what is the point...

 

What is the point of what? What is the point of him staying with her, or her staying with him, or you waiting for him? I agree there is no point to any of it.

 

If you are asking, what is my point, my point is that the whole affair thing is messed up for everyone.

[herenow]

Every situation is different. I was in such a weird place that I conveniently didn't look at him as the cheater he is. Of course, I never fully trusted him because of it though. Therefore, I was not really in love with him.

 

At the time though I sure thought I was. If you can get satisfactory explanations on how I could actually feel THAT, you'd probably be rich!

 

Now I think I'm the one who needs therapy because I have so much hatred in me that it is just unhealthy. I hate that he got off scot-free, his life is completely unaffected. I find myself fantasizing about ways to ruin his life and career.

 

Every time I have to listen to him being chummy, joking with co-workers, I just seethe inside. If they only knew!

 

But I can't do anything about it. Just have to sit, be a grown-up, take my lumps and pray like hell for karma to step in and do her thing.

 

Do you ever think about how hurt his wife is or would be if she doesn't already know?

[herenow]

I agree with this.

 

Do you really believe that you have no part of the deception and the wife does?

 

Are you saying that you are in no way responsible for the affair?

[peacelove]

In my case, No I did not have anything to do with the wife's deception. She knew he was leaving before I came into the picture.

In yousaveme's case, the wife knows that the marriage is dead & that he will be with the "OW" when the kids are a little older & can better understand what is going on.

I do not agree with parents staying in a marriage for the kids sake. Just my opinion here.

[BenThereDunThat]

Do you ever think about how hurt his wife is or would be if she doesn't already know?

 

Yes and that's just one of the things that keeps me from doing it.

 

I think she should know, but it's not my place to tell her.

[herenow]

OMG, I get it! I just had an epiphany!

 

You don't have a problem being the OW because you really don't feel that you are doing anything wrong. You think that the problem is in the marriage and you are an innocent bystander. The MM is lying, you're not. You don't feel that your actions have hurt the W or the marriage, that's the MM responsibility and you have no reason to be concerned with his responsibilities.

 

I'm really not trying to be mean here, but it all makes so much sense. That is why some people here say that the deception and lying is happening in the marriage and they can remove themselves from any guilt and continue the affair.

 

Thank you so much for answering, I really do understand. I definitely don't agree, but I do understand.

[herenow]

In my case, No I did not have anything to do with the wife's deception. She knew he was leaving before I came into the picture.

In yousaveme's case, the wife knows that the marriage is dead & that he will be with the "OW" when the kids are a little older & can better understand what is going on.

I do not agree with parents staying in a marriage for the kids sake. Just my opinion here.

 

 

If she knew he was leaving before he met you, then you are not an OW. You are his next relationship after he decided to end his marriage. Very different indeed.

[herenow]

Yes and that's just one of the things that keeps me from doing it.

 

I think she should know, but it's not my place to tell her.

 

Thank you for making that clear.

[peacelove]

If she knew he was leaving before he met you, then you are not an OW. You are his next relationship after he decided to end his marriage. Very different indeed.

 

Most here on LS would say that I am an OW. His divorce has not been finalized as of yet. I don't consider myself his OW, cheatmate, or whatever else anyone chooses to call me.

Thanks for taking the time to try to understand the many types of situations here.

[yousaveme]

OMG, I get it! I just had an epiphany!

 

You don't have a problem being the OW because you really don't feel that you are doing anything wrong. You think that the problem is in the marriage and you are an innocent bystander. The MM is lying, you're not. You don't feel that your actions have hurt the W or the marriage, that's the MM responsibility and you have no reason to be concerned with his responsibilities.

 

I'm really not trying to be mean here, but it all makes so much sense. That is why some people here say that the deception and lying is happening in the marriage and they can remove themselves from any guilt and continue the affair.

 

Thank you so much for answering, I really do understand. I definitely don't agree, but I do understand.

 

 

 

I dont not remove myself from the guilt. Yes i have guilt but i chose to deal with it. I love him, he loves me. No its not a perfect picture. But we make it work.

 

He isnt into making the marriage work. He is into making me and him work and has made this clear on many of occasions in words and actions.

 

As for the marriage its dead and was dead long before me.

The only thing i have done is make him see a future, and the future includes me.

 

as for the lieing , yes he has lied and continues to lie to her. That lie is for the kids. Even if its wrong he does it for his kids happiness.

 

No he doesnt lie to me...And yes i know and see the proof.

 

Im sure i will now be consider and evil heartless person. But that is okay because those who know me otherwise would beg to differ.

[peacelove]

I dont not remove myself from the guilt. Yes i have guilt but i chose to deal with it. I love him, he loves me. No its not a perfect picture. But we make it work.

 

He isnt into making the marriage work. He is into making me and him work and has made this clear on many of occasions in words and actions.

 

As for the marriage its dead and was dead long before me.

The only thing i have done is make him see a future, and the future includes me.

 

as for the lieing , yes he has lied and continues to lie to her. That lie is for the kids. Even if its wrong he does it for his kids happiness.

 

No he doesnt lie to me...And yes i know and see the proof.

 

Im sure i will now be consider and evil heartless person. But that is okay because those who know me otherwise would beg to differ.

 

I will beg to differ about you being heartless & evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're an awesome person/friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[herenow]

I dont not remove myself from the guilt. Yes i have guilt but i chose to deal with it. I love him, he loves me. No its not a perfect picture. But we make it work.

 

He isnt into making the marriage work. He is into making me and him work and has made this clear on many of occasions in words and actions.

 

As for the marriage its dead and was dead long before me.

The only thing i have done is make him see a future, and the future includes me.

 

as for the lieing , yes he has lied and continues to lie to her. That lie is for the kids. Even if its wrong he does it for his kids happiness.

 

No he doesnt lie to me...And yes i know and see the proof.

 

Im sure i will now be consider and evil heartless person. But that is okay because those who know me otherwise would beg to differ.

 

I have no intention of calling you evil or heartless. I'm just beginning to have some understanding. And I do admit that each situation is different.

 

Just be careful in who you believe and who is giving you the proof to believe. Until he has left his marriage and you are living with him, you have no real proof of what happens in his home. Take if from a BW who was living with a cheating H, it's amazing how good someone can lie no matter how well you think you know them. That goes for lying to the W and to the OW. Your MM has a wife that stays for the kids (common story) and an OW who will wait for him to decide when it's right to leave. Sounds good for him, what about you? I'm don't believe so easily anymore.