Four Months without....not the unusual

[coloradodiscreet]

First, Don't let the screenname mislead you. I am only looking to describe the wish to remain private....not looking to cheat.

That said let me ramble a bit in an effort to solicit some advice. I am 35 my wife somewhat younger. Married 11+ years. Two kids, a decent life. Since the wedding our life together has been a series of deep lows and shallow highs. From the outset let me say that I truly do understand the value of communication. My wife on the other hand cames from a family that is very much inclined to simply "not discuss" issues that are painful. We are talking about the poster family for denial.

Now the problem (if more background is required feel free to ask) During our marriage, my wife has consistantly found it easy to use the threat of divorce as a way of controlling me. In the past, I have immediately fallen "in line" once the threat was issued. Her complaints always revolve around the same collection of issues that most husbands hear. My job(s) were not enough, once I got a decent job, it was that I did not do enough with the kids, around the house, etc. etc. Even after I address these issues, she still will find things to complain about. Anything to point out inadequcies. Once I got the career I am in now I have discovered again a more confident part of myself and have stopped allowing the threat of divorce from her to cause me to immediately do back flips to asuage her.

During all this the sex has been ... well lackluster. I am a very creative and adventureous guy in the bedroom. Always willing to try anything to insure thae orgasm of my partner in the past and wife for the last 11 years. Sex has gone to once a month at best and , for the second time now in the middle of the fourth month and counting without. In the past, I have always been "everready" and when she comes to me to initiate. By the way, After 2 or 3 years of marriage, I stopped asking for sex. I stopped because when I asked I would be turned down flat or met with ambivilance to the point of me just rolling over and not wanting to continue due to her disinterest. She is the one controlling the sex from that point forward. I am rambling I know...please forgive me. Now, in the last two years, I have been unable to achive or maintain a serviceable erection with out being chemicly enhanced. (thank God for Pfizer). We had a pretty good sized arguement four months ago and the threat of divorce came up again. During the last two years or so I have just told her that if that was what she wanted, then go right ahead. I wont fight her on that any more. Who would want to be with someone who does not want to be with them any way. I have also been getting the "I love you but I am not in love with you " routine as well as the "passion/desire is a cycle and goes up and down" routine. Not for me. My passion for her has remained constant. During our marriage, she has always gone from that extreme to the other as far as sex goes though. Not wanting it for months on end to wanting it semi regularly (once a month). It is a total mind f**k for me sometimes. I am now getting the idea she may be turning the corner again and I am afraid that I just might not be able to meet her there again. With or with out the little blue pill. I want to I really do, I just don't think I have it in me anymore. My confidence in this department is completely shot. My trust of her is completely shot. I know this is going on and on, but just at wits end. Before there is a slew of posts wanting to know what I have done to fix this, or done for her, or have I looked at myself first before complaining about her, trust me when I tell you that NO ONE is more critical of me thaen ME. She runns a very close second, but I am the hardest on me. I also constantly do introspective inventories to try to figure out how best to address her complaints. Assess their validity, implement change to better our marriage. I am just running out of things to do,say,think,feel, that will make things better. I just do not trust in my heart that she loves me for me. Not love me for who she thinks I should be. There is ZERO in the way of affection from her. I take that back, there is some flashes of affection, but I get the impression they are designed to get her physical needs met and not out of any real attraction or "Desire,passion" to be with me. I never get the impression that she finds me desireabel. I sound like a woman. That is not ment to sound disparageing, just an illustration of how this situation is kind of a role reversal. I

I am sorry to ramble. Just needed to get this all out as I have run out of friends to talk to about this. I no longer want to burdan them or family with this. Not really comfortable talking about this.

In answer to your question yes we have sought counciling early on, but that was a onesided disaster. I even went to a counciler myself, and that helped some, but she is steadfast against going. FYI. Any help, advice,insights,encouragement, LIGHT critque, (seriously let the critque fly I was only being half serious)

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Hi there!

 

To be honest with you, I am upset by the conditions you have to put up with. That sounds like me about 1 year ago. You see, I am a MW for 10 years and I have always been eager to please my H because I loved him. WEll, that changed about a year ago when someone told me, "you have to love yourself". I finally got it.

 

I don't think that once/month sex is "regular" sex at all!!

 

Your wife sounds hyper-critical and I honestly don't see why you would still want to put up with her.

 

You need to ask yourself what it is that YOU want -- and you need to work toward getting it.

 

You need to go to Marriage counseling with your W. If she refuses to go, go to individual counseling without her.

[lasan]

I agree. Seek some therapy. My ex rejected me so much by the end of our marriage that I too stopped asking for sex. Many years later I am still affected and inhibited when it comes to initiating sex. Perhaps if I had went to therapy I could have moved past that issue.

 

I hope that if you start going to IC, that eventually your wife might see it's benefit and go with you.

[Jane Doe]

I agree with the others -- continue counseling on your own. Being rejected like that can do a real number on someone. I can relate to what you're going through. My husband isn't critical of me but we have absolutely no sex life at all. It's been close to 3 years since we were intimate. We've gone for months and years without it for our whole marriage. I have zero confidence in the sex department now and would never ask for it due to the rejection.

 

I think you need to decide if this is truly the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with. It sounds like you're going to have a long road ahead of you with her.

[coloradodiscreet]

OK, Counseling is def in the mix. I have family members (not mom or dad,)and close friends of the family who are clinical pros, so that is a bonus as far as gaining tools to deal with this. Actually, they are remarkable in their ability to see her side and help me to address "blind spots" in my own makeup. Good thing.

I started, a couple of years ago to work on my body. Lifting weights and such. At first it was to desperately try to regain some confidence. Then it was to try to attract her and provide her with a reasoon to want to be with me. Now it is simply to work off sexual frustration. ( good thing to be ambidextrous too) I realize that I have plenty to answer for as far as this relationship goes, but I think the effort to address these issues is there on my end.

We are now, kind of, in the rebuilding, phase. I am hopeful that this is a sincere effort on her part. I am dubious though. The reason why is that it feel like a tactical move on her part to regain the control she lost once I was no longer willing to just "suck it up" and roll over. Again, I became willing to seperate/divorce and that let the wind out of her sails as far as using that ploy. It is during this "re-buildin" process that I put my hope. However, the "work " to be done is pretty much assigned to me. 70/30 split I would say. So you can see how it seems that this is the same ol song and dance just re-decorated and presented in a different way in an effort to regain control. I keep comming back to the control issue. I have no desire to be "IN CONTROL" I find the model of each partner working to the better of the other much more satisfying. This is not going on at all. I am the one with the "problem" in her eyes and she is the victim who I am lucky to have. She does all the work (nevermind my 12 hour a day, travel required,law enforcement, career as any kind of a contribution on top of help around the house, help with kids, and being available for her ) she is the one put upon, she is the one who is not getting her needs met.

THe whole I love you but I am not in love with you thing is REALLY pissing me off. WHY STAY???? Leave, and go find your bliss then. I wont fight you. I will do all that is required of me to be the good divorced, responsable ex. Where is the down side for her? It is what she wants. GOD...even if this is a whole hearted attempt to put it all back together, how an I to get over all HER resentment as well as all mine? How to I get my heart patched back up to where I trust she wont just become so deeply dissatified that she wants to leave again? How do I get my unit to function again with out pharmicological assistance. How do I get my masculinity back? I conceede that I am not blameless here. I know this...just a venting rant. I also know that demanding victimhood status on my part will not acomplish anything. Just bear with me as I wander through uncharted waters here. Thanks for the replys too. Much needed on this end I assure you.

[g-dubbs]

I posted a thread in seperation and divorce called should I stay or go. I have really similar feelings to what you speak of as far as trust. I do not feel I trust my wife. She had an affair and that is a big part of why I feel I cant trust her. I don't know if your wife has had an affair but you don't feel you trust her for reasons known to you. I guess what I am trying to say is if you can not trust her and she doesn't make you feel good she needs to know that and want to change for you. I told my wife I was leaving her last night and she was distraught and did not want me to go, but for me it is to little to late. I spent 10 years in the same pattern and a some point you have to put yourself first. I hope you don't have to take the extreme step I felt I had to but you sound like a good caring guy and should be with someone that is going to return those feelings. And no sex is a big issue. If you decide to stay with her that needs to be adressed ASAP and counseling may be your only chance at that. There are deep feelings that need to come out.

[LakeGirl]

I feel like you are talking about me and my hubby. yes I have repeatedly turned him down over the years, but we have never gone 4 mos. Why did I turn him down you ask? His technique was horrible. He thinks by asking "wanna mess around" that that is gonna get my engine started and I will be in the mood. Have told him time and time again, need a little passion, kissing, touching, whispering, any sort of pre-game actions NOT words. I was usually the initiator.

 

Recently my body has realized it wants sex way more and he is so accustomed to not that often, I'm even more unsatisfied than usual. I have always tried talking with him and discussing things, even rented better sex videos to help him see techniques and roll playing. He just doesn't get it. When the game is on - he knows what buttons to push and when, just wish we had a pre-game. And this is uslly why I was always so reluctant to give in to his suggestions.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

P.S. - might have to suggest the blue pill for my hubby

[coloradodiscreet]

I am pretty confident that I am Fine with regard to technique. I am , without blowing my own horn, a considerate lover. LOVE forplay. Touching, kissing, S-L-O-W build up. I know this because I am really interested in a POWERFUL orgasm from her. Not a power thing for me, just a huge turn on. LOVE to make that orgasm STRONG. Moving further on, I take plenty of time to try to intuit wheather or not she is looking for "LOVE MAKING", or "JUNGLE LOVE" Always willing to provide either. My own climax is almost an afterthought to me. Much prefer to instigate multiple climaxes from her. Anyway I guess that technique could be an issue, but I Would never know unless she told me. If I ask, I am accused of accusing her of "faking it" There is a whole other can of worms. No real way of generating a bi-lateral communication regarding this subject. If any discussion has occured on this subject it always degenerates into a blame fest, we are incapable of communication on this as well as a number of other issues other than the kids.

[AgentD]

coloradodiscreet,

 

Please seperate your posts into smaller paragraphs from now on. It'll make it a lot easier for our community to read.

 

Thanks!

[coloradodiscreet]

No prob...will do.

[Kinger25]

"Now, in the last two years, I have been unable to achive or maintain a serviceable erection with out being chemicly enhanced. (thank God for Pfizer)."

 

Ok - I am british and dont really know anything about the above mentioned chemical so please forgive me if I am being a little preconceived here but doesn't the above statement from you totally contrast with the one below?

 

"Not for me. My passion for her has remained constant. During our marriage,"

 

I maybe shooting myself in the foot here as like I said I know little about this "little blue pill" unless of course you are talking about viagra, but do you think that its possible that your wife somehow feels to blame for your inability to "achieve & maintain" ?? If this is a possibilty then you may be half way into working out why sex is such an issue between you two. I mean, if my Boyfriend couldn't "achieve & maintain" I would most definitely feel as though the problem were at least half my fault. You know, all those thoughts that go through your head when that particular situation arises (no pun intended) I would definitley be thinking "it's me, he doesn't fancy me" or "I cant turn him on anymore" and if in my mind I thought that I was the reason behind the problem it would most certainly embed a enourmous amount of self doubt in me and I know for a fact that I would be less inclined to initiate love making for fear of not being able to "turn him on". Like I said, I may be WAY WAY off the mark here, but is any of the above a possibility?

[coloradodiscreet]

Klinger, I see what you are trying to say. However, she does not know that I am on the "pill" so to speak. I did this independant of her knowledge. Were she to find out, I know that this would be a MAJOR fight. It would be at this point that your point would make more sense. Now I can see where she might develop feelings of inadaquacies. It was in an effort to avoid this that I got on the "pill" in the first place. Did not want my issues to impact her willingness to be intimate with me.

 

Further, prior to getting on the "little blue pill" (viagra) and in the throws of dysfunction, The finger was pointed at me and how the issue was "all in my head".

 

True though it may have been, it did not seem to me that she was , in any way, internalizing any of this or assuming any of the responsibility.

 

I suppose I am partly to blame due to my inability to communicate to her that there was a very real trust issue here, I tried, but it was just turned around on me and put back in my court, as it were.

 

I do appreciate your comment though, I am totaly willing to accept any viewpoints that might lead me to be able to return to a more stable place with respect to confidence. Thank you.

 

 

P.S. Is this writing format better for everyone? I.E. more paragraphs rather than one long rant?

[coloradodiscreet]

In addition to my previous post to Klingers response, allow me to say that I am fully aware that my dysfunction prob. DID produce some feelings of inadiquacies for her. These may have been the catylist for her lashing out at me initally. Her lashing out only occured once. o her credit, she did act much more understanding and compassionately later as the dysfunction continued.

 

I did not want to put this all on her. I want to be clear that she can be understanding.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm confused about 2 things:

 

1). Are there kids in the picture? I scanned your post but didn't see any mention of children.

 

2). How did you go from (1st post at 5:19 am) "I just don't think I have it in me anymore" and "There is ZERO in the way of affection from her" to (later post at 6:40 am) "We are now, kind of, in the rebuilding, phase. I am hopeful that this is a sincere effort on her part"???

 

Did I miss a step somewhere?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mz. Pixie]

I'm with you Mr. Lucky- I was wondering if I missed something!

 

She's holding on to major resentment. She doesn't GET how important sex is to you, she just doesn't. Sad, but true.

 

She's also in withdrawal from your marriage. Have you been to marriagebuilders?? Check it out. There is a great section there on the three stages of marriage. She is in the last one.

 

To get the marriage to be mended both of you are going to have to let go of your resentment. And say "You know what, I'm going to let that stuff go. I'm going to offer and accept forgiveness." See if she's willing to do so and move forward.

 

On marriage builders they offer phone counseling. Not sure how much it is but they are really good I've heard. That site has saved many many marriages, you may want to go that route.

[coloradodiscreet]

Mr. Lucky,

I guess I am the one who is confused now. I mentioned in the first post that there were indeed kids in the picture. Two. One teen and one not a teen.

I truly do not know if I have it in me to continue this. As I explained in the post I have pretty much been on a wild roller coaster ride. As far as rebuilding, if you re-read that post, I think you will see that I said that it was more of a way for her to put fresh spin on the old way of doing things in an effort to regain control.

It is because of this and the Up-and-down nature of this marriage that I question if I have it in me to continue. I do love my wife. Or atleast who I married. I want things to work, but the head games, wheather she knows she is playing them or not, are really breaking me down finally.

Thanks for your insights though. I hope this clears up any confusion.

[Mr. Lucky]

I see. Count me amongst the others who say that paragraphs make your post easier to read.

 

I faced a similar "jeckyl and hyde" lifestyle in my first marriage. I tried my ass off but ultimately failed simply because my wife wouldn't help or participate. I finally decided that a good divorce was better than an awful marriage. Good luck with your decision.

 

Mr. Lucky

[coloradodiscreet]

Agreed, THe whole paragraphs-make-the- post issue has made it less difficult to read and understand my "spewing" I find that it also forces me to be more clear in my thinking as I post. Sorry for the previous diatribes.

 

I am very reluctant, right now, to persue divorce. Not because of any fear, really, more because I just want to be sure that I am doing all I can to "right the ship" .

 

At present, she has been much more in the way of affection. Not affectionate, just much more ... I dont know how to describe it, softer?

 

This puts me in an interesting place. I return the "softness" but I am continueing to battle the distrust. I feel I can almost predict the eventual "other shoe" My guess is that in another week or two she will be very dissatisfied and anti-me again.

 

This prediction brings up an interesting point. I have always known that horemones have always played into this equation. The crux of the problem though, is that even with this revelation, we both seem to be able to retain the resentments that have plagued us throughout our marriage. Mine more recently then hers.

 

I have always been able to forgive and forget. She, not so much. Lately (within the last two years) I have just run out of the willingness to forget the wounds. Forgiveness is always hard to do but Ifeel Ihave been able to do this. However, the forgiveness without the forgetfulness seems to hamper me from moving on from the pain. Does this make sense?

 

I also want to say that I am posting here not so much to find answers, but more to disgorge and unload what is swimming around in my mind. I truly appreciate the insights and shared experiences that you all have been kind enough to share with me. This IS a very confusing and painful time.

 

As painful and confusing as this time is , though, I must say that it has forced me to work on reconnect with the strength and confidence that I once had. I guess that if there is a silver lining to all this mess, that is it.

 

Please feel free to keep posting, I know Iwill. I will also let you know if my prediction is accurate or not.

[Mr. Lucky]

This puts me in an interesting place. I return the "softness" but I am continueing to battle the distrust. I feel I can almost predict the eventual "other shoe" My guess is that in another week or two she will be very dissatisfied and anti-me again.

It's interesting that most dysfunctional marriages have a, well... disfunctional cycle. Mine was arguement, followed by the cold shoulder, followed by a resumption of semi-normal activity BUT a refusal to discuss any problems, followed by a feeling of hopelessness and anger on my part because I knew the same cycle would start again.

 

At the risk of being over simplistic, maybe the first step is as obvious as finding a way to break that cycle. However, like everything else, takes two to tango.

 

Mr. Lucky

[Sup]

Have you thought that she may be cheating on you? I'm not saying that she is, but, if she's not having sex with you, then she has to be getting it somewhere. I suggest you look into it CAREFULLY, don't arouse suspitions, and whatever you do DON'T accuse her unless you got concrete evidence.

[coloradodiscreet]

Mr. Lucky, I absolutely agree with your last post. It is the same thing over and over. Insert definition of insanity here. Breaking the cycle, for me, begins with not allowing her mood shifts to dictate my own self worth, or confidence. Unfortunately, the continuous cycle that has been going on for so long, has eroded both beyond "functioning" right now. I am personaly attempting to bring myself back online through therapy, working out, and continuous productive self evaluation. It is really all I can do . Fix me first then worry about everyone else. Total mind F**k.

 

SUP, If I had to guess I would say that , no she is not cheating. However, I will also say that it is not beyond the rhelm of possibility. My level of trust for her is pretty low so yes, I have thought about it. Prior to marriage she would cheat on boyfriends. So I am pretty sure that, were she to have an affair, I would never know about it. My guess is that she would be able to cover her tracks so well that I would never find out unless she wanted me to.

 

The topic of an affair is a tough one. On the one hand, I would not be suprised. The level of destruction that I have allowed in my own emotional equilibrium has , more or less, put me out of the game so to speak. We are talking about sex, at BEST, once a month. Right now, we are in the middle of the 4th month without. THis is a longer streach than usual, but not unheard of.

 

I also feel that, over time, I have become less and less attractive to her. This is very painful to me due, in part, to the level of effort that I have put forth to both make myself attractive to her as well as be satisfying sexually/emotionally to her. The net result has been continued "distancing" by her. The effort is that of,not being needy, more just available to listen and be helpful.This leads me to conclude that she really does not see the damage that this causes and does not care to try to understand.

 

Again, I have not initiated sex with her for the last 8 or 9 years. As stated in an earlyer post, she would summarily dismiss any attempt or simply lay there and "participate" as a consession to me. Made that very obvious. REAL sexy. Me and my frail male ego just could not/will not venture into that state of vulnerability any more.

 

Frankly, I am amazed that I was able to hold on to any sembleance of manhood for as long as I did, so throughly destructive is her ability to induce emotional trauma. (END: WIMPY COMPLAINING)

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Yeah, that's quite wimpy, man.

 

I did not read every post here, but did you attempt MC with your W? If she refuses to go, go without her. YOu do need a self-esteem boost.

[Ladyjane14]

.....I have not initiated sex with her for the last 8 or 9 years.

 

It would seem to me that 'not initiating sex' might be a fairly good explanation as to why you're not getting any.

 

You've said several times that Communications is a problem within the marriage. To my way of thinking, 'communicating' what you want from your partner goes part and parcel with holding up your end of the relationship. So, if you want sex... you need to let your partner know it.

 

While I agree that a 4-month drought is certainly something which needs to be addressed, particularly when we're talking about two healthy partners... I can't see how previous 'rejections' would absolve you from asking to have your needs met over a more than eight year period.

 

You've got basically three choices arrayed before you:

 

1. You can repair the relationship.

 

2. You can leave the relationship.

 

3. You can continue on with the status quo.

 

You've expressed a desire to repair the relationship, right? So... you toss the other two alternatives away and immerse yourself in the choice you've selected.

 

Bearing in mind that you cannot force change upon any other individual... you're left with just one option. That of course, is changing YOU.

 

Your method of 'doing business' hasn't worked out too well for you. So, if you continue on using the same old tired methods... you're bound to get the same old tired results, right? The only thing left to do is to change the way you 'do business'.

 

I've noticed in your posts a tendancy to make assumptions at your wife's motives... in essence, a tendancy to put words in her mouth. This is the FIRST thing which needs to be addressed. Communications is an imperfect science even in the best of circumstances. It is damn near impossible to accomplish clear understanding of one another when we 'assume' we understand the other person before they even speak.

 

The best tool is "Listen, Rephrase, Repeat". Because even if we do wait and hear what the other guy has to say, it's fairly easy to misinterpret meaning. We have to sometimes continue on translating the other person's thought until their exact message is conveyed.

 

Good communications requires teamwork. You can't communicate well when your relationship has become adversarial. When you're dealing with an 'adversary'... you're trying to beat an opponent. Your wife isn't your opponent. You aren't her opponent. You both want a happy marriage and a happy family, right? You have common goals when in terms of 'the big picture', but you can't achieve those goals in opposition to one another. Neither one of you can 'win' by defeating your partner.

 

So while it's true that you can't make your wife's choices for her.... you can damn sure make your own. And you can CHOOSE to be her partner, and her teammate. You can choose to look out for her best interests.

 

Once you've adopted that strategy, you'll see that what's in her best interest is a happy, loving, well-adjusted husband. And you'll see that it's not a selfish thing for you to advocate for yourself... because in the long run it serves the one you love.

 

Long and short of it... if you want to repair the relationship, the changes begin with you and in your approach to communications with your wife.

[coloradodiscreet]

LadyJane,

Spot on. I agree totaly. The problem is that, I have indeed tried to communicate my needs over the course of the last 8-9 years. Aside from rejection being a factor in my unwillingness to initiate, the lines of communication shut down on her end. It always, no matter how it is put to her, ALWAYS ends up being a matter of her accepting my attempts at communication as both a commentary on how needs are not being met and as an attack by me. I assure you that the communication methods you espouse have been tried. This is a method that she emplys to control. I cannot be right only she can be correct in any discussion of sex/relational issues. It is ALWAYS me who needs to make changes, never her.

 

The ONLY time that communication, as one sided as it is, is attempted is when she is not getting what she wants. I can understand how you can come away from my previous posts with the impression that I am makeing assumptions, and to some degree I am, but in most instances, there is AMPLE of evidence available to classify these as obsevations rather than assumptions.

 

I think that the main "assumption" that I have made over the years is that she too wants to be in this marriage and that she has an interest in making it work. Perhaps this is an instance where making an assumption makes an ass out of you and me.

 

I truly feel that her need to control is the real issue. It is the one constant that is ever present. I also do not think she realizes how destructive this is. When brought up in a civil discussion regarding "needs", it (the discussion) went from decent communication to divorce speak and shouting on her part in .02 sec.

 

Again, I assure you that through the course of my life I have developed good, solid tools to use in communicating with others. However, when one is attemptiong to communicate valid points to someone who DOES NOT WANT TO HEAR THEM, it quickly devolves and is a situation where she uses every single weakness, shortcomming, and anything else that she can think of with the single minded purpose to wound and cause distress to the point where the offending "valid points" are no longer being addressed.

 

If you view the situation through the prisim of her overt/latent need to maintain control, then you can see where these become obsevations rather than assumptions. For example, She has often times refered to the old standby "I love you but am not in love with you". This is the "on / off switch" that is used to keep me in check and at the ready for when her phsiological needs are requireing attention. Is this an assuption on my part? Perhaps, but in my view, if it looks like a rose and smells like a rose then...

 

I fully realize that there is way more to this than I can capture in an online post. I also want to emphisize that I appreciate all comments that are intended to be helpful. Thank you. I want to make this disclaimer because, as people post suggestions, observations, thoughts etc. I do not want to leave the impression that I am just shooting them down. Each response draws, from me , bits and pieces that help to clarify both for me and for the reader, what the situation really is. So please...keep posting.

 

I also want to make clear that I have tried EVERYTHING I can think of to open the lines of communication in the past. My unwillingness to open up anymore or provide a level of vulnerability to establish meaningful communication is as a direct result of having the door slammed in my face over and over

[Mr. Lucky]

Again, I have not initiated sex with her for the last 8 or 9 years.

As Ladyjane said, game, set, match. It's over, you lose...

 

How can you complain about her failure to participate when you've given up yourself? Doesn't make sense to me, either you're in the marriage and trying to work things out or your ass is out the door. Can't imagine anything more frustrating than living in limbo - seems like you just wasted the last decade or so

 

Mr. Lucky