Angel291 Posted November 8, 2006 Posted November 8, 2006 I do not think I know what a healthy friendship is and where the boundries of an unhealthy friendship are and I want to know how to define these two things, if that is possible. I just never know when people are being human and I am just being too touchy or when people are being lousy friends and I am letting them get away with it. I never know when to stand up for myself. For example, I recently had a problem with my best friends mother who is also my friend (see my other post, "Should my friend be mad at me"). The mother was calling my best friend for like 2 days bitching about it to her. So I let about 4 days go by because at first I did not want to bother my best friend with it but then I felt I should let her know the truth of it because I know she is hearing this highly edited version that is making me look bad in her eyes. My best friend said to me, "Look, I really do not want to hear it. I have been hearing it from my mom for 2 days now and I Just do not want to hear it anymore." I wanted to tell her my side and explain that I was not at fault like her mom was making me out to be, but she just refused to listen and seemed annoyed with me. She has done this before about things, where I will try to talk and she will say, "I dont want to hear it. I am tired/stressed/busy (or whatever the excuse is)." It seems to me healthy friendships should consist of friends being able to talk to each other and listen to one another and express their feelings, not being told "I dont want to hear it." So I do not know what is a healthy friendship and what is not. I know people say cliches like a friend will always be there for you or not hurt you or what not, but I want to know what a healthy friendship looks like and when to define one as negative and when their are problems, what are the right ways to work things out and the wrong ways to handle things. I am trying to eliminate abusive people from my life and want to know when to say "enough, this friendship is over" and when to say "this is worth working on" and if it is worth working on, what to do. Thanks!
Guest Posted November 9, 2006 Posted November 9, 2006 She knows her mother is a nutcase. She has to live with her. You're not being a very good friend to her because you want to rub it in her face that her mother's crazy.
Author Angel291 Posted November 9, 2006 Author Posted November 9, 2006 It is not my intention to rub it in her face but rather it was to let her know what really happened so that she would not hear these things and think I did so many terrible things that I did not do and then think I was this horrible person to her mother. If her mother is painting a picture of me as having done things I did not do, I want her to know that is not true at all. Otherwise she could hold a grudge against me for something I did not even do! I know if I thought someone did something mean to my mom I would be very angry but if they explained their side and it made sense then I would understand and not be angry. But the thing is, what she said would not have bothered me if it was not turning into an accumulation of her constantly treating me as though she does not care one bit about how I feel at all. She always says she loves me and would do anything for me and that the reason she loves me is because I am always there for her when she needs me. She knows if she needed me I would be there. But the thing is, when I need her, she is usually not there for me. So the message I am getting from her, very loud and clear, is that she loves me as a fair weather friend and when things get tough or she is just not in the "mood" to be a friend, she just does not care. She hangs out when SHE feels like it and everyone has to hang out when SHE wants to and she is a friend when SHE feels like it and if she does not feel like it, too bad. Case in point: her former best friend chose her to be the godmother of her child and asked her to show up for the birth. She said to me that she did not "feel" like going and just wanted to go home and relax. Not suprisingly, they are no longer friends and why? Because it is no longer convenient for her to be the girls friend. The friendship needs maintanance now that she is busy with a child and is not a simple friendship of going out and having good times. She was invited to the babys birthday as the godmother and did not "want" to go so she just never even went! I see this and I think, is this something she would do to me in the future? Because if it was me, I know I would be very hurt by someone doing that to me. Another time I wrote her a very long letter telling her, in the kindest way possible, how her actions were very hurtful and that I was hoping we could work things out as friends and talk about these things. I never got any kind of a reply and about 3 months later I got a card in the mail with like 3 lines just saying that she got my letter and hoped I was doing well and that was it. She will ignore answering her door when people come to her house and she does not feel like answering it. She makes so many people in her life feel like she does not care, so I know it is not me because she does the same thing to them. She is wonderful to whatever man she is dating at any given time, but ignores everyone else. Yet when she is single she wants to have friends again. Yet she insists she cares about me so much and would do anything for me and how I will always be her best friend and so it is confusing. On the one hand I am told, I love you, but on the other I am getting the message, I dont want to be bothered by you. It is incredibly hurtful and confusing to no end. I can never figure out if she loves me and wants to be my friend or just says these things to be nice and does not care. When I see her she is so loving and warm and generous and says all these nice things and I think, she really does care about me. But then she ignores me for ages (except for a brief phone call from time to time to talk about nothing important) and does all these other things that say she does not care. Her friendship makes me one time feel great about myself and another time it makes me feel like crap and like she just does not value my friendship at all and it is terribly hurtful. It swings back and forth constantly. Anyways, my point was not so much about her or any particular incident but how to define a healthy relationship vs. a not healthy one.
superfreak Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 My take on the situation you mentioned is that it has nothing to do with either a skewed perception of other people's behavior (on your part) nor abusiveness on the part of the friend. When I have two friends that are in a bitter fight (or even just a little tiff), I cannot be in the middle of it. Especially if that person happens to be someone I am particularly at risk of suffering some consequences for offending (i.e., a family member), it is absolutely imperative that I stay the h*&L out of it. If you need someone to talk to about the fight you're having with the best friend's mother, you may want to talk to someone that's impartial. If you have no one like that, this is a good place to go. At any rate, your friend is stuck between two warring factions, get it? It is neither her responsibility (or apparently her prerogative) to listen to the two of you complaining about each other (she did this!! oh, no, you should hear that SHE did THAT!!!). You two (or one of you) are POSSIBLY trying to vie for the person's attention by manipulation, and that is no way to maintain a healthy friendship. Nevertheless, the friend has the absolute RIGHT to say, "Hey, you know what, I don't have to hear this. I don't WANT to hear this. This is between YOU TWO." It IS between you two; it's not that your friend doesn't love you or her mother because how do you choose between your mother and your friend? My point is, the fact that your friend doesn't want to be involved in a beef between two responsible adults who are perfectly capable of meeting up and discussing their differences AND coming to an agreement to prolong the friendship is perfectly understandable. It's drama. No one wants additional drama in their lives, especially of the sort that they don't create. It is not a reflection of a measure of how much another person cares for you when they take action to defend themselves against a barrage of crap from two friends who are angry with each other (and thusly need to discuss it amongst themselves). I struggle between that business of not knowing how to differentiate normal human being stuff (that can be solved) and crazy problems as a result of some warped perception I have (as a result of prior abuse, that can also be solved by working on myself), and it's difficult when you're in the thick of things. Breathe. Step back. Don't get so distressed. It's not a crisis when you have a fight. Work it out like an adult who is capable of conflict resolution with someone they care about (or at least maintaining the civility between themselves and someone they don't necessarily care about because no one likes tension or anxiety). It's not by any means the end of the world, and some perspective given by hindsight may just be the cure-all. Good luck.
superfreak Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Sorry, I didn't take your second post into account. I hope you don't feel attacked, as that was certainly not the case. I feel foolish now for posting such a lengthy item when you say it's not about the particular incident. I had a friend like that; she would always tell me how much she loved me and how much she'd be there for me (ANYTIME!), and so on and so forth. It really hurt when I FINALLY came to the realization that she didn't really mean it. Maybe she WANTED to, but couldn't express it? Nevertheless, not my problem, it's hers. I invited her to my much-belated college graduation, a celebration of me finally finishing something and a meaningful accomplishment. She was the only friend I invited. She never showed. Why? Getting her hair done. She would never come to my house. Only to hers. There were some economic differences between us; my family had a little bit more money than hers (though not much if you take into account the debts we've accumulated). She felt bad in my house--SHE felt inadequate, thusly could not come to my home. We were of different races. She accused me of racism when I told her that it would be only a matter of time before she quit her job (she has quit every job she's ever had within 3-6 months because "they" weren't doing something right). We had problems. BIG problems. We tried to talk it out, there was no resolution. We didn't talk for a year. I was HURT!!! So hurt... She was my closest friend at that time and I loved her dearly, and I didn't understand why all of a sudden this tension and turmoil. See, my friend has problems of her own. Be it self-centeredness, low self-esteem, inadequacy issues, problems with people noticing her fallibility, etc., they are HER issues. Not mine to take on, like: "I am not good at maintaining long-term friendships because this one failed." Sounds like your friend may have some issues of her own, and it's time to take stock. I like pros and cons lists. I did this with my friend I mentioned above. I made a list of all of the positive attributes of our relationship, then on the side (a T-chart) I made a list of all the negative attributes of our relationship, including the way I felt when I was with her. If the list either outnumbered or outweighed (via emotional gravity) on either side, I make the decision based on which has/weighs more. In my friend's case, I made the decision to split. We didn't talk for a year and a half, then when I finally ceded and apologized to her she took that as the upper hand and told me once again how it was my fault and SHE didn't do ANYTHING wrong. I let it go. Then I asked her to the movies (we agreed upon it the day prior). I called her house, left a message, she still hasn't returned my phone call, and that's the way it stands. Pros and cons list says: it's not worth all the pain of holding on. I hope I helped you some. Posting that really helped me... Thanks for the opportunity. I know it's long.
JCD Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 I think she likes to hear herself saying how wonderful she is and how unselfish she is but when it comes time to act, she falls behind. She is selfish and it's all about me, me, me. I think you need to let her go and let her grow up on her own time. Being able to talk about things that are difficult and try to resolve them is a sign of maturity, which your friend doesn't have.
Author Angel291 Posted November 21, 2006 Author Posted November 21, 2006 Hi, thank you all for the advice :-) It is so helpful to hear other peoples viewpoints. (No, I do not feel attacked at all :-) I suppose it is hard because I have loved this friend so much for so many years. She has had such a profound influence on my life and has the most beautiful personality of anyone I have ever known. I care about her so much and hate to think of letting someone who has influenced my life for the better in so many ways just fade out of my life. But, at the same time, it is tiring trying to make a friendship work when the other person only wants things to be their way and refuses to try and work things out. That was the worst, when she acted like she could care less to even try to talk to me about it. It said SO MUCH to me...about how she does not love me...yet she insists she does and she is so convincing at times! Thanksgiving is coming up and she has not called me at all. I called twice and have not heard back. She knows I always go to her family house for Thanksgiving and I am so hurt that she is just ignoring me and not even calling to even say "Happy Thanksgiving." It is just hard to let go :-) Thanks for the advice though! I will reread it and try to work on it.
Grrlish Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 So I do not know what is a healthy friendship and what is not. I know people say cliches like a friend will always be there for you or not hurt you or what not, but I want to know what a healthy friendship looks like and when to define one as negative and when their are problems, what are the right ways to work things out and the wrong ways to handle things. I am trying to eliminate abusive people from my life and want to know when to say "enough, this friendship is over" and when to say "this is worth working on" and if it is worth working on, what to do. Thanks! Only you can decide if a friendship is worth working on. If you feel dismissed by your friend repeatedly telling you that she doesn't want to hear it, then that friendship might either need to fall into a different category for you, or perhaps it has lived out its life with you. I, for one, would not be able to continue having a friendship with someone who treated me this way - dismissed me repeatedly. We all occasionally have times when we're mentally and/or emotionally exhausted from life, relationships, work, friendships, etc. I value my friendships and if someone needs me, I am more than willing to stretch myself for them, even if I'm exhausted. I've gotten pretty good at understanding the context of certain friendships, thus making sure that my expectations are in alignment with what that person has to give to the friendship.
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