Had “the talk” last night. Follow up to: ramblings of unfulfilled man

[MAN1]

I originally posted this:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t101132/

 

After posting, I thought very carefull about what I felt was missing, before I talked with my wife. I changed a bit from my original post. Mostly what was bothering me was her lack of interest and desire to do things outside of her sexual comfort zone. Last night we had a one hour talk (mostly I talked) about my concerns. Here is a summary of what was said (abbreviated)

 

- Sex quantity is ok. I would like more, but I can live with the way it is now

- I feel lonely, unfulfilled, and unloved

- Sexual affection is an emotional need for me, not just physical

- I want you to initiate more, and wear lingerie

- When we have sex, your reaction is: this is ok, but I could really care less

- I feel like you never want me, like I’m always chasing, it would be nice for you to try to attract me

- I don’t just want your body or parts of it, I want you, and the connection with you

- Your body is fantastic, you are sexy, I want you to see things from that perspective, to feel sexy and “let go"

- I hope you can listen and try to understand my needs and perspective

- Blow jobs and hand jobs are soooo appreciated, we used to do those when you are not in the mood

- I feel as if some parts of what I consider a healthy sexual relationship are missing

- Outside of this issue, I feel blessed, happy, and everything else is great

- I wish I could light your fire, and spark your passion. Tell me what I can do to fufill you? Is there a part of our relationship bothering you, that might drive less desire? Help around the house for example?

 

Her responses

- I’m listening

- How much is going to be enough?

- If it were up to me, we would probably have sex much less

- I am emotionally and sexually fulfilled

- I do not desire other men sexually or emotionally

- There are a few nitpick things I would like to change about you, but overall I am happy and fufilled

- Is what I give now (sex) above and beyond not enough? It sounds ungracious of what I DO give

- Do you really want me to do things out of my comfort zone?

- I am happy with how much you help around the house, with the kids, how much time we spend together

 

In the end, she listened and we talked about it, but she really did not seem to “get it” that this is important to me. We had some back and forth about whether what I was asking for was unreasonable. She seemed a bit frustrated that I am unhappy when we are having sex now (note: only in bed, only late, lights off, etc). At times when I was talking I can see how what I was saying seemed selfish, but after agonizing for months about whether or not to bring it up, and how, I do not regret saying anything. She decided to mostly think about what I have said instead of reacting right then.

 

Comments are welcome

[Ladyjane14]

- Is what I give now (sex) above and beyond not enough? It sounds ungracious of what I DO give

- Do you really want me to do things out of my comfort zone?

 

I'm in agreement with your wife... you sounded ungracious and unappreciative of what she's already doing.

 

Intimacy is a gift, and you've told her in so many words that her gift to you wasn't good enough. I think it's likely that you'll be seeing MORE inhibition, rather than less from her for awhile.

 

 

 

 

(p.s. I don't know if you're into porn or not. The fascination with lingerie has me wondering. But if you are.... you ought to consider giving it up until you and your wife have regained emotional intimacy.)

[MAN1]

I'm in agreement with your wife... you sounded ungracious and unappreciative of what she's already doing.

 

Intimacy is a gift, and you've told her in so many words that her gift to you wasn't good enough. I think it's likely that you'll be seeing MORE inhibition, rather than less from her for awhile.

 

 

(p.s. I don't know if you're into porn or not. The fascination with lingerie has me wondering. But if you are.... you ought to consider giving it up until you and your wife have regained emotional intimacy.)

 

I appreciate your response, I really do. I am not at all into porn, don't touch the stuff. Lingerie is simply something I woul like once in a while (hasn't been for about 2.5 years now), and shows me that she is interested in me.

[Ladyjane14]

Honestly, if I were to hazard a guess... I'd say your wife's problem is more one of inhibition than lack of love, interest, or appreciation.

 

Having little ones around the house can affect even the most uninhibited woman. For one who already had those anxieties in place... it's ruinous.

 

I think your better bet would be to work on setting up the parameters for more privacy and emotional trust. If you want sex during the day... take the kids to Granny's. Offer a bit of romance, roses... a glass of wine, and make that lingerie a gift. Let her know she's safe enough to open up. She can squeal like an alley cat... and the kids won't ever know.

 

Don't tell her you want more "blow jobs" or "hand jobs". Those terms aren't romantic. So if you can't say what you need to say in romantic terms...be clinical instead. Tell her you tend to enjoy sex more when your penis is offered greater stimulation during the lovemaking session.

 

I think in some ways, you've made this all about YOU. But you've got to give in order to receive. Your best bet on what to give... is emotional trust. Let her know she's safe with you.

[JamesM]

As has been said by others, you could be me. Read my first couple of threads, and you will hear yourself. Except we had no sex.

 

What I never read or heard anyone mention is the main problem we had. Granted one can have marital problems that cause no sex....and they are many. But do not leave out the medical factor.

 

I read that you said she was on no medications. You have two young children...ages? How long from last pregnancy? When did the lack of interest in sex begin? Did she ever...and this is important....have any diagnosis for thyroid problems prior to or during pregnancy? Did she have any labor problems/difficulties? Is she afraid of getting pregnant?

 

As for lingerie...my wife won't do it anymore either. Reasons? Not comfortable with her weight...even if a little bit, this one is easy to understand. "You just take it off anyhow." True. She cannot due to kids. Anyone with a houseful of boys can understand this. Even when in bed, she may have to get up in the night. She is a mother to most of our household.

 

Just a couple of comments . When I get a chance, I will get back. I do believe that give and take is necessary in sex. If you want it to be enjoyable, you cannot make it a "job" for her. There is a fine line between telling her what you miss and "demanding" sex. I know. Since I have been there, and we do have more enjoyable sex now, I totally understand. As Flyininclouds will say...be a man. What this ambiguous statement says is take initiative and make sex fun for her and fun for you. Tell her your feelings but really, really listen to hers. Get her to open up. Based on your comments I do not think she has yet.

[Ladyjane14]

....take initiative and make sex fun for her and fun for you. Tell her your feelings but really, really listen to hers. Get her to open up. Based on your comments I do not think she has yet.

 

Agreed... on all counts, particular this last bit. Feeling like somebody just doesn't 'get it' when you're telling them something is more than likely due to blocking. It's defensiveness, and when we're defensive it means we feel like we have an opponent to deal with.

 

That's where the "listening" comes in. Be on her side, even as you are addressing your own concerns. Prioritize her feelings as much as your own.

 

Look... you STILL did the right thing by opening up the dialogue.

You might have made a few tactical errors, but that shouldn't stop you from following through, and keeping the discussion open.

 

Just make sure you're wife is really feeling your support and love while you're negotiating. And as James has said... try to make this thing a bit more fun. Life's an adventure. With the right attitude, together you can make finding an answer part of it.

[MAN1]

Honestly, if I were to hazard a guess... I'd say your wife's problem is more one of inhibition than lack of love, interest, or appreciation.

 

I don't doubt her love for me, it just FEELS that way sometimes. I know I am appreciated, I just wish she would speak it in my "love language" instead of hers.

 

 

Also from James M:

"Did she ever...and this is important....have any diagnosis for thyroid problems prior to or during pregnancy? "

 

How could I possibly ask her "Honey I think your sex drive is broken, could you check it out with the doctor?". If I sounded like a selfish bastard before, saying something like that I think would be out of line. (?) Don't take that wrong, James, I agree I would like to know, but she has to decided on her own if it is worth checking out.

 

I don't want her to do things with me out of obligation, guilt, or pressure. I do want her to do things with me because she enjoys them, or gets joy from making me happy. However if she doesn't want to do those things (why I don't know, how hard is it to put on different underwear once a month and then come to bed), and I want (emitionally need) them, then what?

 

Flyin in clouds - any input or opinions?

[tanbark813]

You're not being selfish, she is. What is this:

 

- If it were up to me, we would probably have sex much less

- I am emotionally and sexually fulfilled

 

??? She's basically saying, "Well I'm satisfied, so why should I have to change for you?" Great attitude. And women wonder why men are afraid of marriage.

[JamesM]

Also from James M:

"Did she ever...and this is important....have any diagnosis for thyroid problems prior to or during pregnancy? "

 

How could I possibly ask her "Honey I think your sex drive is broken, could you check it out with the doctor?". If I sounded like a selfish bastard before, saying something like that I think would be out of line. (?) Don't take that wrong, James, I agree I would like to know, but she has to decided on her own if it is worth checking out

 

By the nature of your discussion, she already views you as being selfish...trust me. In her mind, the conversation was about you wanting sex. I have been there. What you want to do is get her to understand what sex WITH HER does for you. If I could rewrite what Ladyjane and Ms Pixie have posted to my threads in the past. And yes, FIC has given some relevant and good remarks. I believe that they all have info that can be very helpful.

 

STILL....has she never shared any results of medical issues during the pregnancy? My wife has had thyroid issues all her life. And her tests showed that she was at normal levels. But when I joined this Board almost a year ago, I had been without sex or very very little for the previous past four to six years. Someone suggested that I go to drlowe dot com and look at the info. My wife had many aches and pains plus mood changes. She would have sworn to you prior that all of the libido problems were related to her emotions and lack of interest, not physical. We had had talks about the lack of sex many times, but it always ended in "it is your want of sex and nothing more." This past April she changed medications after I found the above website. I did not direct her to that site with the attitude that this will change our sex life. No, I could see that it would change HER life. And it did.We than had another talk after the new medication, and everything changed. That is why I suggest to YOU to research thyroid issues and any other related medical problems your wife may have had. This may also include diabetes, depression, or pregnancy related issues. You may need to be a detective regarding her past medical history. Also has she ever had any sexual abuse or other emotional issues during childhood?

 

She does not have to decide on her own totally. You can definitely do research prior and mention the possibility. If you have open communication, this should be okay.

 

BTW, how long has the lack of sex been a problem?

 

How often do you have sex right now and how often do you think you should have it?

 

Why do you think she lacks interest? No orgasms or because she doesn't give you bjs or handjobs?

 

What is your work schedule like? When you come home, what do you do first?

 

How often do you both sit down and talk and listen without the children around or the TV on? How often does she get out alone in a week? Who pays the bills? Who controls the finances?

 

Does she have any close work "friends" that may be more than that? Does she work? Doe she enjoy spending time with you? Does she have times where she is gone and you do not know why? Does she have her own cell phone? IS there any possibility of an affair...whether physical or emotional?

 

Etc, etc.

 

I have been where you are and TOTALLY understand the anger and resentment. And yes, that is all gone for me now.

 

With help here, you will solve the problems.

[MAN1]

James, I'll answer your questions. I'm sure you'll find, and she has told me outright, that there are no "household" concerns to be taken note of.

 

 

"how long has the lack of sex been a problem?"

 

Frequency has gone down for last 10 years since getting married, but her interest has significantly decreased since the kids were born. That you could say was the start of it all.

 

"How often do you have sex right now and how often do you think you should have it?"

Remember our frequency is ok, it is her lack of initiation and desire of me that makes me feel unwanted.

 

"Why do you think she lacks interest? No orgasms or because she doesn't give you bjs or handjobs? "

She orgasms most times we have sex. She used to give BJ's and hand jobs (one BJ in last 3 years, hand jobs almost non-existent now), but they just kind of disappeared for no good reason. So why should me asking for them now be a problem when she wanted to do them for me before?

 

"What is your work schedule like? When you come home, what do you do first?"

My work schedule is tame and she's happy about this. I get to spend from 4:30pm on with the family. I come home, take the kids while she makes dinner, then at dinner we talk about our day. After dinner we go for a walk, or hang out inside. Unless I have to mow the lawn or the like, we spend evenings together.

 

"How often do you both sit down and talk and listen without the children around or the TV on?"

Serious talks, once a month. Little stuff weekly.

 

" How often does she get out alone in a week? "

Once a week, more when she asks me, I NEVER say no, even if a weekend with her friends.

 

 

"Who pays the bills?"

I do

 

" Who controls the finances?"

Neither of us, we do it together

 

"Does she have any close work "friends" that may be more than that? Does she work? Doe she enjoy spending time with you? Does she have times where she is gone and you do not know why? Does she have her own cell phone? IS there any possibility of an affair...whether physical or emotional?"

Affair is extremely unlikley (yes I have my eyes open). She works part time by choice to get a break. She is a good mother, but kids are tiring for both of us.

 

 

 

I am not discounting the medical possibility, but I have to think about how I might approach that. Not ready yet.

 

No abuse or long term medical issues. Some post-pregnancy muscle control issues (birth 2 years ago), but that really when we have sex, she likes it and it's good. My concerns are much more with the interest and (yes selfish) fufillment of some of my emotional needs (feeling like she really does want me).

[whichwayisup]

This is going to take abit of time to sort out, one conversation isn't going to change her, or you. Patience is a virtue, my dear...

 

I completely understand where both of you are coming from as I've been on both sides. There have been times when my hubby and I have not connected, sometimes it's me, sometimes it's him - But we've worked through it because we both want to.

 

Honestly, I think she's happy, and quite content with how things are in life and it's little effort to keep things as they are...Day in and day out, life just goes along. BUT - That isn't good for a marriage!! You two need to connect emotionally and physically! This isn't JUST about sex, it's about meeting eachothers needs on ALL levels and really understanding the reasons why each of you are feeling (or not feeling) neglected. You both are coming from different angles, and there has to be a middle ground you both can meet upon. Hope that makes sense...

 

Forget 'actual' sex right now. Spend time together but have FUN! Remember the reasons why you fell inlove with your wife. Bring back those feelings and passion - And most of all, make HER feel it! Instead of secretly hoping for sex, set a night out for sensual massages, cuddling and kissing...Have a bath together and just be in the moment (meaning, hope for sex, but don't expect it to happen) and let whatever happen, happen.

 

I think if you two spend more time together focussing on the 'friendship and fun' part of your marriage, things will change slowly.

 

ofcourse, she has to be willing to do put in effort to. If one person is doing all the leg work, it won't work as well. 100% effort by you both, not 50-50.

 

Don't give up, keep the lines of communication open and definately make plans to ship your kids off the grandparents for a sleepover, or for the day.

[whichwayisup]

My concerns are much more with the interest and (yes selfish) fufillment of some of my emotional needs (feeling like she really does want me).

 

Stress this point to her, because these types of needs (on a sexual and emotional level) are crucial to keep the intimacy going in your marriage.

 

Everybody wants to be desired and looked at by their spouse and it does hurt when the spouse doesn't "see" you that way...I've been there and fought my butt off to make sure my hubby 'noticed' me....lol. But, that's a whole other thread for another day...

[Ladyjane14]

Sometimes I have to wonder if guys REALLY understand that they're dealing with a WOMAN.... and not just some girlie-lookin' dude.

 

A woman's libido is fluid, not static. There are ebbs and tides, and this is a NATURAL state of being for her. She's not marinating in testosterone all day, thinking about sex every 8 seconds. Yes, it's important to her. But it's not the MOST important thing to her over the course of her life... particularly when she's dealing with young children.

 

Not to be a smartass.... but I really do think that before a guy gets offended by his wife's lack of interest in frilly underwear... maybe he should 'walk a mile' like James has done, and educate himself on all aspects of the issue.

 

For as long as I live... I'll never really KNOW what it is to be a man. I can only study and try to make my best educated guess. But likewise... you guys don't know what it is to be a woman. If you can approximate an understanding of her side of the issue, you've got the inside track on reaching her emotionally and bypassing the hormonal system when you need to. You can access the 'feel good' chemicals of the adrenals.

 

There really ARE solutions to this problem. Most couples do experience lop-sided libidos and dissimilar sexual interests over the course of a long marriage, and not everyone ends up divorced, so I think it's safe to say that a fair many to come to agreement on it. The key, I think, is developing an understanding of one another.

[MAN1]

I was surfing a bit today and found this excellent paragraph. This is how I feel. I'll betting alot of people reading can relate to these words:

 

--------------------

When you're involved in a genuinely loving but ultimately sexless relationship, the sex problem itself takes a backseat to the feelings of distance and emptiness that ultimately have little, if any, connection to your sex drive. All of the warmth, the passion, and the desire that are supposed separate a platonic relationship from a romantic one seem to come from one party, and the slow, painful realization of this fact starts to eat away at you, bit by bit. And it would be one thing if you grew to resent her enough to dislike her, but it's just not the case. You love her, and she loves you. Sincerely, without any shred of doubt. And during those times throughout the day when you're interacting purely on the friendship wavelength of your relationship, things are fantastic. You laugh together, maybe cuddle a bit and just enjoy each other's company. But then you turn and look at her a certain way, and it hits you like a dumptruck in the dark: that familiar, sinking feeling in your chest that reminds you that she will never, ever, be able to look at you the way you're looking at her right now. It's the same feeling you'd get if you were in love with the best friend you knew you could never have. She loves you as much as she'll ever love anyone, and you know it. But at the moment, and so many others, you feel truly alone despite it.

---------

[JamesM]

You still haven't mentioned the frequency each week that you have sex. How often? I know that you don't think this is the problem, but if she thinks that she could do with less, then it may be an issue. You want more from her, yet she wants less. Believe it or not, less may be better...(I cannot believe I am saying this!). Why? because she may enjoy it more. If she knows that YOU expect it one time, three times, five times, etc...she may feel obligated to fulfill that quantity. But if she knows that the quantity is not a fixed amount, then she may "perform" when the spontaneous excitement arises, then sex can be mutually enjoyed by both. To me that is the key. I don't think you are dealing with a low (or should I say no) libido woman as much as you are dealing with one who doesn't enjoy it as often as you would like. You would like bjs and hjs. You would like more initiation from her. This may be a time where backing off is a possible way for her to want to have it. (When we had no sex...she had zero interest and never an orgasm). Your case may be more of a need to reignite the flame..and as LJ said, ignore the sex...focus on her. Think of what she would like and do these things with NO hint of sex expected. I can guarantee you will be amazed at what can change.

 

Here is something to consider. I just came back from lunch with my wife. This now weekly event is very much anticipated by her. We can get together and talk, she dresses up like a date, and neither of us has to cook or do dishes. There are no children or other obligations that get in the way. Our bill comes to ten dollars rather than fifty for an evening out. No babysitters are necessary. We will also spend this evening together at home, but I guarantee that this "date" in the middle of the day gave us more magical quality time together in one hour than the four to six hours we will have tonite. Am I now expecting sex? No, we will see what the mood is then. Do I think this may be filling the "love bank" for future withdrawals? Yes, I know that it is.

 

So, think about what you can do for her. Why doesn't she want more sex? What does she act like during sex? And you say she orgasms...don't get angry...how do you know? (Trust me...woman CAN fake REALLY well especially if she thinks that you expect her to orgasm). What can you do to spice up her sex life? More importantly, what can you do to romance her outside of your sex life? When you take walks, is it alone or with children? When you have talks, is it without children, without TV, and any other interruptions? (I know I could tell you that we have coffee and some meals together and theoretically alone, but there are always interruptions. And when the children are in bed, we both want some alone time). Do you give her massages? Light some candles? Allow enough time after the children are in bed? Or is it a half hour prior to sleep? Does she do it out of obligation or out of passion? If or when she does it out of passion, what is different? Do you expect it on certain evenings or is it usually spontaneous? As Flyininclouds said (and I almost hate to give him the satisfaction of quoting him), pretend she is your mistress. Have an affair with her. Seduce her. If I were to meet her...or when you did for the first time, what is so attractive about her? And as Ladyjane said, it is all about the emotional connection your wife needs with you. Time together doesn't necessarily do it. It it time together that the two of you "connect" emotionally...when you look in her eyes and appreciate her...when she talks to you knowing you are rapturously listening. It is about being friends and lovers, not parents and roomates.

 

You say that she said everything is all right...I hate to be the one to break it to you....that doesn't mean that it is true. It just means that you need to dig deeper to discover what is the reason that she is not as passionate as she was. The answers you put down from her did not address the problems. My wife said I did everything right, too, but in her case it was medical. Inside she felt "dead" sexually to me. Yours may be medical, but most likely it is emotional or stress related. In the past, have you ever had the talk where she gave more info? When you brought it up whether directly or indirectly, what were her comments? Or does it always end like...here we go again, hubby wants more sex.

 

If I could hazard a guess or two...and may not be right...it isn't medical. It lies with the normal mundaneness of life. It is because the same things occur. She has the children all day up until 4:30, right? So for her..even though you are home in the evening, she has children all day. Does she ever say that the children seem to be her responsibility only? Her part time job is when? When she is there and the children have a babysiter, who is the emergency contact? (Sorry for the too many questions, but as LJ said, I did extensive research in my life and my wife's when trying to find the cause. I feel I was almost lucky to have discovered a medical cause. But this research helped than as has helped now for trying to increase the bonding between us...not that I always have the answers, that is for sure.)

 

Another thought...you mentioned her not being happy with her body. True? Do you work out? Does she? Could you get gym memberships? A treadmill? I know my wife feels better now that she regularly uses the treadmill. Have you gained weight in the past ten years? I am assuming that hygenically you have not changed, and that you take care of yourself.

 

If you want to solve this issue, then since she doesn't seem to mind the sex, you will need to be the one to figure it out. Check out all of the many, many threads on this topic. I sware...most people come here with this problem! From the time I seriously began searching for the answer to the time that she changed was almost six months. If I had know when I began, that that is all it would be, I would have been incredibly excited. In fact, if I had known that I could have found a solution, I would have been excited. We never know. But we do know that if we do not try, no solution will be found.

 

The key, I think, is developing an understanding of one another.

 

I can't say it better than LJ said it.

 

Additional remarks regarding your sexless marriage remarks...

 

From what you have said, you don't have a sexless marriage. Let me quote from your first post here...

- Sex quantity is ok. I would like more, but I can live with the way it is now

 

Not meaning to be harsh and critical, but this is like a person who skipped a few meals comparing themselves to someone in India who hasn't eaten in days. Trust me, sexless IS sexless. This means that sex is not even an option, This means that your wife tells you at two in trhe morning when you reach for her for sex that she never wants it again...that she thinks it isn't necessary. This means that she says that if you want sex and she doesn't, then obviously, you are selfish not giving. Sexless means that when you hug and kiss her, she is afraid to return it because she doesn't want you to even consider sex. I am not meaning to put you down, but what you have is maybe a lack of sex due to expectations, but she still has sex with you, she still orgasms...but what she doesn't do is initiate sex or give you blowjobs or wear lingerie.

 

Again, because you don't have what YOU need, it is a big problem, but you have alot going for you. This can be fixed.

[MAN1]

If she were to choose, we would have sex 1 time per month or two. I would like it 4-5 days a week. We do it 1-2 days a week.

 

I do not for a moment think I am sexless. Maybe I chose my words wrong, so if I misrepresented, sorry bout that. We have sex, and although not to my desired amount, is ok by me.

 

James, I appreciate your inquiries, but here you can understand my concern, as nothing seems to be out of joint. We also meet for lunch every so often. I send and bring home flowers about every 2 months. I write small loving notes. I tell her how much I love her and find her attractive. I snuggle her and give her affection with no expectations. I rub her feet and give her back rubs randomly. I really try to do my best by her. I clean the table and do the dishes after dinner (unless she wants me to take the kids and we switch, her choice). I'm sure I make it sound too good to be true, but I do all these things. I'm not perfect, I'm quite sure there are things I do which she does not like, but I seriouosly put the effort in. Not to get some, but because I love her.

 

I think she simply does not understand that sexual attention, touching, attracting your mate is what makes me feel fufilled, because it is not what fufills HER. The whole love languages thing.

 

She has told me once in the past that she sometimes feels pressured and guilty about the sex thing. I am trying to do things just for her, with no expectation. But they are non sexual of course because she really doesn't have those needs so much. In the last 2 months I have really tried to just relax and let things be, with little pressure, but it hasn't changed much.

 

In the past, it ended in feelings of "here we go again, he wants more/different sex" as you mention.

 

This time I was clear to express how I was feeling and why I had these feelings. What made me feel whole and that it was not the amount of sex which made me feel unfufilled, unloved, and lonely (I used those words). I tried to make it not about sex but the emotional connection that sexual attentions strengthens. Not sure if she understood it that way.

 

I am doing research on this and other sites. I'm not going to have the talk with her and let it be over. I am continuing. I don't want to analyze it to death. She really hates it when I am trying to figure out what's going on or what's bothering her and make her more upset by trying to figure it out, then what was bothering her in the first place. Reading it all makes me feel sad that there are so many of us out there, hope for the few that have had things improve, and scared that things will never change.

[JamesM]

If she were to choose, we would have sex 1 time per month or two. I would like it 4-5 days a week. We do it 1-2 days a week.

 

How often are they "quickies" versus she has an orgasm? What are you missing from sex...initiation from her or passion from her? Or is it simply that she does "normal" sexual activities and doesn't experiment? I am still having a bit of a problem here. You have sex one to two times a week. Is it the adoring look and the kisses and hugs or is it the wild passion that you miss?

 

James, I appreciate your inquiries, but here you can understand my concern, as nothing seems to be out of joint.

 

Trust me, there is something. On the other hand, it may be difficult to find. And if you have told her that sex is not what you want, it may take even longer if she doesn't initiate change from her end.

 

She has told me once in the past that she sometimes feels pressured and guilty about the sex thing.

 

This is interesting. Does she feel this way because she isn't pleasing you or is it because she wishes she felt more interest?

 

I really try to do my best by her.

 

I believe you do. That may not even be the problem. On the other hand, it is best to start from the angle that it is. Is she your best friend and confidant? Is she the one you would want to go out with in the evening? Are YOU the one she wants to go out with? As an example, my wife says and said even when she had no interest in sex, that in the evening when I stay home with the kids and she goues ot, "I wish I could go with you instead of..." I don't know why, but I think it is because we share so much when we go places.

 

Do you take alot of time to just talk? Of the two of you, which one is the more of the "I want to be alone" type versus "I need to be with someone" type? In our case, I am the one who can be alone. She needs me to retain the connection.

 

I think she simply does not understand that sexual attention, touching, attracting your mate is what makes me feel fufilled, because it is not what fufills HER. The whole love languages thing.

 

VERY possible. Have you read "The Sex Starved Marriage" by Michelle Weiner Davis? Great book. You may want to share it with your wife.

 

I tried to make it not about sex but the emotional connection that sexual attentions strengthens.

 

And here is something that may bring a different light on the problem. For my wife, the emotional connection has NOTHING to do with sex and EVERYTHING to do with communication and spending quality time together. This means me sitting down and reading with her...but always being open to talking. This means lunches and dates. It means time with her away from the children and away from the TV. Sitting in front of the TV while talking with her doesn't do it. (Sitting near each other while we read and ignore each other is good. You figure.) So part of your research should be to find out what is her emotional connection language, while subtly communicating to her what yours is.

 

She really hates it when I am trying to figure out what's going on or what's bothering her and make her more upset by trying to figure it out, then what was bothering her in the first place.

 

TOTALLY understand. So did my wife. On the other hand, my wife is grateful that I did, because I "gave" her much more than her libido back...I gave her her health back. So, you should keep up, because it may give her a whole better outlook on life.

 

Reading it all makes me feel sad that there are so many of us out there, hope for the few that have had things improve, and scared that things will never change.

 

Not to scare you, but at one time, I was where you are. Our sexlessness didn't happen overnight...it was gradual. So, if you don't "nip it in the bud," it may get worse.

 

It seems to me that you are only missing the passion at this point. The sex is there. It is just that the fun has gone out of it. Usually this means that the fun has gone out of the marriage. Now is the time to revisit the places that you went when you dated. Now is the time to do something unusual and unexpected. If you give notes and roses, then that isn't it. It needs to be something that says I love you for who you are, not what I can get.

 

BTW, I would not rule out the thyroid issue or something similar. Surely you know if she has had any health issues. Research these as something that may be the cause. It may be something new. Is she depressed at all? Is she the same person outside of the sex issue? Thyroiditis (low thyroid levels) can bring on pain, depression, low energy, low libido, and many other things...not necessarily all of them. Suggesting a physical to her because of some other symptom may be difficult but with some thinking may be possible.

 

Good luck. Hopefully one of us will be pointing you in the right direction.

[a4a]

I did not finish reading James post ........usually they are good but one thing stood out to me big time.

 

"sex 1-2 times per week"

 

Sex? just sex? hummm.

 

How bout trying to make love to her 1-2 per week?

[Pink_Tulip]

I think you have gotten great advice, and only have a couple quickies to add.

 

First, I know I mentioned this before somewhere on this board... I had a friend several years ago, who, after her last child was born, just never got her sex drive back. Never. No interest, no horniness, nothing. She had obligatory sex with her H regularly, but the desire was never there. Finally when the youngest was 8 she went to the Dr. He gave her testosterone cream, and within a week or two, BAM. Sex drive back in full force. Just throwing it out there.

 

Second- I see this a lot and wanted to comment. You said you give your wife flowers regularly, love notes, etc. Is this something she really wants? Or is it something you do b/c it's what guys are 'supposed' to do? My point is, I hate flowers. I can't think of a bigger waste of money. If my H wants to spend 50-75 bucks on me, I'd love a new pair of running shoes, or a new fishing pole. I hate jewelry. If my H wants to spend more on me, I have been dying for a treadclimber. If my H came home with diamonds or flowers, he'd get the exact opposite reaction he wanted. But, he knows this. It is funny, on Valentines day, his female coworkers always ask him if he is getting me flowers, and he will tell them no, I don't like that. They will ALWAYS try to convince him I am just saying that, and really want them. Which gets him all in a tizzy, calling me up and asking if I am sure I really don't want flowers, lol. What is important to women is that you spend five minutes getting them something they WANT. That you know them well enough to know they prefer running shoes over flowers. That feels intimate and special. Know what I mean? I see a lot of posts on here telling the guy to romance his wife with all this foo foo stuff, and that definatly would not work for me. If it works for others, awesome. Just don't get her something cuz you feel you should, or some book or site said to. Get her something SHE really wants. Kinda like that old joke about a man getting his wife a new bowling ball for Xmas, only the wife doesn't bowl, but the man has been in a league for years. And surprise, it is exactly his size, and his fingers fit perfectly...

 

Hope that rambling made sense! Good luck.