How many is too many?

[sowhatnow_ny]

OK so here is my story (the names have been changed):

Last summer I met a great woman "Jane"-30 online who lives in the midwest. I live on the East Coast and am 35.

 

I flew out we had a perfect first meeting and I saw her every few months so things soared from there. Over time Jane told me about her past and how she used sex to get what she wanted for years (drinks, gifts, a place to crash,sex). The number of guys she had slept with was well over 100 plus about 30-40 she was too drunk to remember. She said this was during her youth and she had hated the fact it ever happend. When I asked about recently, she added in that when we started out long distance relationship she was dating a lot but ended them all once she realized I was not a dream. She lived with a few guys in her 20's and almost got married. I got past this (I thought) since was all before we fell in love and we moved on.

 

At the beginning of this year an ex "Suzy" tried to get back with me by finding Jane's email on the internet tried to make it seem like Suzy and I were still an item. She also threw in a lot of crap about a "Mary" whom I used to date before both of them.

 

Jane took it to heart and was crushed. I reassured her it was all pyscho ex crap. The two of them played stealth email attacks for a while and then it calmed down.

 

A few months back she admitted that she had a fling with her ex-fiancee and never told me about. This too I was able to get over. He was a drunk and basically tried to rape her. Her family took care of him so I thought that was over too.

 

At work or after would go out, she would tell me, to keep the air clear, about the men who would go too far, hit on her and even had to report a few to the HR department at her job.

 

Just a few weeks ago she admitted she thought we were "over" after a big fight and I delayed her moving to the East Coast to be with me. In her grief (which I never said we were over or say she was not coming to be with me) she got drunk and brought some guy she knew through a work friend home.

 

Her re-counting was she was swooned by his words then got in over her head at her place and was fearful of another rape attempt. She told me got it over quick (10min) and told him to go home. I had just flew out to visit her less than a month before this.

 

Now I am torn: Is this a cycle? A hurt soul? Or a person just drinks too much?

 

For me the sheer number of partners is hard to get over, but the reasons and way it accumlulated them is a blow to the gut. I have had maybe 15-20 partners and have been in mostly serious relationships, one for 9 years. I met one girl, one time at a bar and took her back to my hotel while on a business trip. That is my only fling.

 

The last guy she brought home is haunting me. And I question is there is more that she will reveal at some point?

 

I am at my wits and emotional end. She is a smart, caring, beautiful, sexy woman so can understand men chasing her but I can't live in fear. She had a rough pre-teen years at home but never used drugs. Drinking to excess is her trigger.

 

Our plans were to live together, marry and start a family. I know I can overcome all this as long as it ends. So do I end it now before she comes here to stick it out leaning on friends and God?

 

OK, that is it...fire away with opinions and advice!

[Kamille]

wait, she sleeps with men because she's afraid to get raped?

 

it's not the number of men she slept with that's the problem...

 

it sounds to me like she needs professional help.

[sowhatnow_ny]

That was something I offered to explain things.

I think she tried to stop it after it started and her ex got violent so she finished the act out of fear.

The guy she picked up was the samething. She said as she sobered up she realized it was a mistake but went through with it worried it would also get violent.

Trust me no one is more suspicous of these stories than me...

 

I am no saint, I dated a lot after my 9 year relationship ended but I always knew "No" meant "No".

 

p.s. the last line SHOULD read "...OR stick it out..."

[Walk]

Well... I think (and could be totally off base) that this tendency to drink to excess and bring home strangers is a way to self-destruct. That she probably has feelings of that she's worthless, etc. And until she attempts to face the problems she's having inside her head, then she's not going to be able to be totally faithful to you.

 

If I were in your shoes... I would make the offer to help her in any way she needs. Offer to pay for therapy, offer to help her find AA groups, let her know you're available and that she should call you if she even starts to feel the urge to go drinking. Explain to her that in order for you two to have a workable relationship, then she needs to take steps to help herself. She has a problem, and until she learns new ways to resolve those, then she's always going to do the same as she's always done.

 

If she's not willing to go to counseling, therapy, then I would seriously consider ending it. She needs to show that she's willing to accept responsibility for her actions and take steps to change her behavior. Right now, it sounds as if she's mostly blaming the "guy". And she blames you because she thought you two were broken up. Maybe you left it out of your post... but didn't hear her mention that she screwed up. That she acknowledged that her behavior led to her sleeping with that guy. If she can't accept responsibility for it, then she won't ever change.

 

The numbers aren't so bad, as the fact that you have no security that whenever you two have an argument she isn't going to immediately sleep with someone else. She has to help herself, you can't do it for her. And if she refuses... then I think you should end the relationship. There isn't much use in staying with someone with this big of a problem if they refuse to help themselves. And she has quite a large problem. She's self destructive. And she'll take you down with her.

 

And ask her to get tested for STD's again before you sleep with her. She's playing a very dangerous game.

[riobikini]

re:

 

SWNny: " Our plans were to live together, marry and start a family."

 

Think *hard* about that phrase you posted above.

 

And throw in some serious consideration to the drinking problem, the years of dysfunctional pattern behavior, the very scarey fact that you have learned all this (negative stuff) in such a short length of time -and then look yourself in the mirror and and picture yourself with this woman standing beside you with an infant (yours?) in her arms.

 

Do you trust that the picture will last?

 

Do you trust that -with all you know, already- this *is* and will *continue* to be, the picture of a healthy-functioning *family*?

 

Could you leave for work and never worry about your child -or what you'll find when you get home?

 

Are you confident?

 

Are you willing to claim *that* picture as the life you've always wanted?

 

Puts it into perspective, doesn't it?

 

Take care.

 

-Rio

[DanielMadr]

Run Forrest RUN. If you love to be desperate, broken, played, cheated and you need material for your psychology study then stay.

 

I strongly suggest to RUN. btw...by telling you about her past she was testing your balls/spine....only good response for her would be to smack her down, then maybe she would love you for a week.

 

Emotional baggage girls, attention wh0res etc. can cause serious problems. If you are not proffesional psychologist. RUN!!!

[Walk]

I strongly suggest to RUN. btw...by telling you about her past she was testing your balls/spine....only good response for her would be to smack her down, then maybe she would love you for a week.

 

Emotional baggage girls, attention wh0res etc. can cause serious problems. If you are not proffesional psychologist. RUN!!!

 

This shouldn't need to be said... There is no excuse to "smack", beat, wallop, hit, or assault this woman. If it causes you problems, then walk away. Beating her is the tool of the stupid and worthless.

 

Just thought it needed to be said.... public forum where someone might get the wrong idea that certain things are condoned if not spoken out against.

[sowhatnow_ny]

Thanks for all the advice and insight.

 

If she's not willing to go to counseling, therapy, then I would seriously consider ending it. She needs to show that she's willing to accept responsibility for her actions and take steps to change her behavior. Right now, it sounds as if she's mostly blaming the "guy". And she blames you because she thought you two were broken up. Maybe you left it out of your post... but didn't hear her mention that she screwed up. That she acknowledged that her behavior led to her sleeping with that guy. If she can't accept responsibility for it, then she won't ever change.

 

Walk:

She did say she was very sorry and regretted all her mistakes. You bring up an interesting point: I am not sure if she blamed him or admitted she 'screwed up' first. Somehow I think that is important.

Since I am not a person who gets angry or overly emotional (I think my exact words were "Are you F***KING kidding me? When?!?") I am trying to be supportive. I have not demanded the AA or therapy but I do think it would have to be part of any thing long term. Oh, and I did say an STD test is a firm requirement! Thanks so much!

 

And throw in some serious consideration to the drinking problem, the years of dysfunctional pattern behavior, the very scarey fact that you have learned all this (negative stuff) in such a short length of time -and then look yourself in the mirror and and picture yourself with this woman standing beside you with an infant (yours?) in her arms.

 

riobikini:

Yeah, the drinking thing gets me but honestly that only explains so much. I do think when you get drunk you do what you wish, what you want to, without the worry of consequences. I would like to think since I am able to handle it all (as long as it is HISTORY) that I should look after a person who can appriciate my ability love and accept what others' cast aside. Mostly I am not worried about what happens during the day, but what happens during the nights, fights and while I am not around. Thanks also!

 

DanielMadr: What can I say? I am not one to smack her down (litterally or otherwise) but I am gonna say running has been suggested by more than one friend!

 

As of now I am dealing with things and looking forward. It is not easy I swear and all I keep thinking is "I am not without sin, so I need to check my stones!"

 

Besides I would like to think someone would see my value even if it is hidden...I will update if more details or events happen!

[DanielMadr]

This shouldn't need to be said... There is no excuse to "smack", beat, wallop, hit, or assault this woman. If it causes you problems, then walk away. Beating her is the tool of the stupid and worthless.

 

Just thought it needed to be said.... public forum where someone might get the wrong idea that certain things are condoned if not spoken out against.

 

Yep. Thanks for clarifying.

[Kamille]

sowhatnow, when you say you want someone to see your value, do you mean that she sees it?

 

 

you do sound like you are trying to see clearly through this, and yet you have yet to convince me that you will not be overextending yourself by getting seriously involved with this woman. I do agree that we all have issues, but please make sure you are not succombing to the male hero complex.

 

Besides, to me you sound like you are making excuses for her instead of actually helping her.

 

Questions to ask yourself: are you willing to have an open-relationship, because it sounds like this is what you are setting yourself up for. She doesn't take responsibility for her actions. Like you said, she views drinking as a license to do what she wants. And I am sure you know that that is a load of crap. (Can we say crap on this forum?). I have a friend with a drinking problem but her bf won't and doesn't accept drunkenness as an excuse for her actions.

 

I'm still stuck on the rape thing, but having sex with someone to avoid negative consequences is still considered rape in most legal courts. Again, it rather sounds to me like she is avoiding taking responsibility for her actions.

 

She has issues. And I do believe people who have issues can find true love. You sound like you want to be someone's ultimate support and redeemer. Make sure she knows what you want and expect in a relationship.

[sowhatnow_ny]

sowhatnow, when you say you want someone to see your value, do you mean that she sees it?

I suppose my point is to say, I know what it feels like to be discounted due to appearance, past, current situation so I am offering what I hope to recieve.

 

you do sound like you are trying to see clearly through this, and yet you have yet to convince me that you will not be overextending yourself by getting seriously involved with this woman. I do agree that we all have issues, but please make sure you are not succombing to the male hero complex.

 

Besides, to me you sound like you are making excuses for her instead of actually helping her.

Being partial on these things is hard. She knows I am on the fence and I do bring it up when I have a serious question or concern. A lot of tears have been shed over this so I would say we are not in denial. "Male Hero Complex"? Wow, I suppose I might be but if I can be a loving partner, provide support and help where most people would not try - shouldn't I?

 

Questions to ask yourself: are you willing to have an open-relationship, because it sounds like this is what you are setting yourself up for. She doesn't take responsibility for her actions. Like you said, she views drinking as a license to do what she wants. And I am sure you know that that is a load of crap. (Can we say crap on this forum?). I have a friend with a drinking problem but her bf won't and doesn't accept drunkenness as an excuse for her actions.

 

I'm still stuck on the rape thing, but having sex with someone to avoid negative consequences is still considered rape in most legal courts. Again, it rather sounds to me like she is avoiding taking responsibility for her actions.

 

She has issues. And I do believe people who have issues can find true love. You sound like you want to be someone's ultimate support and redeemer. Make sure she knows what you want and expect in a relationship.

 

I hate the idea of an open relationship. I would rather not have sex than share her (that is not much of an stretch in a long distance relationship). The drinking and I "had" to have sex with him is hard to believe. I have gotten falling down drunk but only manage to make a fool of myself

 

Looking back at pictures and stories, if she had the money she went out drinking or drank at home. I would say 50% of the opportunites she had to get drunk - she did. Plus I left out one part just a weeks or two ago, she had her ex (the drunk rapist) drive her home after a night out with her friends (which he is still friends with) - she offered him to call her tomorrow, proving how much he loved / missed her and she would take him back then. He being the drunk, never remembered and never did.

Looking back there is more and it goes on and on...thanks for letting me post here and anyone who can offer something please do.

 

As most of us know, it sucks when you realize despite your best attempts your heart is actually breaking and there is little you can do...

[DanielMadr]

male hero complex

 

That says pretty everything. I am also victim of this...I called it messiah complex:D

 

One day you wake up and you realize that you helped dozens, saved few but certainly f@ck up your own life:confused:

 

When you see a women beaten up by someone...help. When you see 2 guys beating up one....help. When you hear girl talking about depression and phobia......give advice. But in all examples...help and walk away. Be a proffesional hero, dont get personally involved. Thinking 'I will cure this little bird and it will sing for me the rest of mylife' is not a good attitude.

[sowhatnow_ny]

I think you may have a sick point Daniel...seesh I feel like such an idiot. I am no trained professional. I am just a sap who wants to help and wants to see poeple happy...

[sowhatnow_ny]

Update!

We I brought up all my points causing her to fell duely accused and she graciously bore the full force of my mistrust.

She said that she did those things for her and not in fear or in spite of me.

Her guilt and self loathing is painful to watch and I know that she is as low as she can feel right now. So I reminded her of her worth, made sure she was stable and ready to wait for me then told her I would think about everything but my first reaction is to forgive and forget. She told me to be sure, it is a lot to forget. I agreed. This weekend I am offline to everyone.

Now I need to digest if I think love and forgiveness means wiping the slate clean and never bringing it up again.

Thanks to the advice here I am better prepared to spend this weekend thinking.

[orangele]

After reading the OP and the replies, I am in the camp of those who think the OP should run from this relationship. Having been there, my tendency is also to be forgiving, and I think the OP will stay, which IMO will, unfortunately probably be a mistake.

[Kamille]

After reading the OP and the replies, I am in the camp of those who think the OP should run from this relationship. Having been there, my tendency is also to be forgiving, and I think the OP will stay, which IMO will, unfortunately probably be a mistake.

 

What can we do. He wants to stay. I guess we should just be thankful that he does look for advice and won't be handling this situation all by himself.

 

Sowhatnow, once you're back online, perhaps you could tell us what it is that she gives back in exchange for all this love, support and forgiveness? What is she offering you? I can see that this is about her and how you can protect her. How is it also about you and what she does for you?

 

I really believe love that can last is about mutual respect and support. About both partners giving and taking. Of course this give and take changes through time. But it sounds, from what you've told us, that right now you're the one doing all the giving. How do you know she will be there to support you - and the family you want to build together- when you need it?

[sowhatnow_ny]

Sowhatnow, once you're back online, perhaps you could tell us what it is that she gives back in exchange for all this love, support and forgiveness? What is she offering you? I can see that this is about her and how you can protect her. How is it also about you and what she does for you?

 

Kamille, until you mentioned it I didn't think about what I was getting out of this! OK here are my first thoughts about what I get:

 

She grounded and salt of the Earth - in the big city it can be hard to find a girl who can do without during hard times and smile the whole time. She is beloved girl of every sappy country song you've ever heard. I need that.

 

She will push me to follow my dreams - I have great faith she would work 3 jobs while I chased down my dream, no matter how crazy. Any woman that listens to you spinning a dream then answers, "Baby, just do it. Quit. We will get by. I would be so proud to see you happy and doing what you want.", is worth an effort. To have someone support me like I would support them is a total fantasy these days.

 

She is a "Lady" - Honest to goodness old fashioned, sugary sweet southern woman. I am sure she would never loose her cool in public - the car ride home would be the place to do that. I need someone like who has thick skin and can smile at an insult.

 

She will let me be me - Since the day I met her, she said "I am always amazed how much you trust me with who you really are." And I do it without thinking. Even my silly goofy side - makes her smile. She honestly loves me - the unique to my core person. That is very reassuring.

 

She makes me see things differently - She has presented so many things in a simple way and asked me to try them. More often that not I grow to love them. She thinks my ability to change and accept is a "Gift". Being valued for those things is something I longed for.

 

Lastly,

She loves to look at me - OK fine petty but honestly I am not a guy who gets more than a first glance. At bars, parties or other social situations I am know for that I do and say not for how I look. I am pretty transparent to strangers so to have person who looks and see nuances that others miss is embarrassing but still wonderful.

 

I really believe love that can last is about mutual respect and support. About both partners giving and taking. Of course this give and take changes through time. But it sounds, from what you've told us, that right now you're the one doing all the giving. How do you know she will be there to support you - and the family you want to build together- when you need it?

 

Somehow I think she can be that but I need to find peace and remember that you cannot love, when you are full of venom and spite. Still thinking about it but I am finding more peace every day.