Here we go again...maybe it's time to end it.

[MrDarcy]

For some background: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t87136/

 

I thought everything had blown over, and things were more or less back to normal. She's more or less cut contact with both guys who were causing problems, one of them was hitting on her and she had a crush on the other.

 

Like I said, I was going to keep an eye on things, and so I have, although lately I have felt my trust in her returning and things beginning to feel normal again. Hell our sex life has even taken a turn for the better. Tonight I found her diary on the nightstand. I have almost stopped checking it, but decided to do it just in case.

By now you're probably thinking what an a**hole I am for snooping like that, but considering the things she's written in the past I feel she's pretty much given up that right. Communication between us isn't very good either, although I blame that on her for more or less refusing to even try to communicate, so reading her diary is my way of trying to understand what's going on in her head, cause she wont talk about it.

 

Anyway, the things she had written shocked me so bad I'm sitting here shaking as I type. She basically wrote she's been thinking about both these guys, regrets not doing anything with the spanish guy (not sleeping with him but just fooling around) when she had the chance, thinks about him a lot, and would like to "have a cup of coffee" with the other guy. She also writes that she thinks about folling around with someone else than me. In addition, she writes about having sexual thoughts about other girls, but that's a whole different issue.

In her defense I should say that she also writes that she wonders if her wanting to fool around with someone else is just fantasies, and she also wonders why she keeps thinking bout these guys. And she has indeed cut contact with them, so she gets credit for that, but apparently, the root of the issue still remains. These are also just her thoughts, but the problem is the lack of remorse she feels when having thoughts like these.

 

Thing is, neither of these guys really pose a threat, as such. The spanish guy, is first of all married, and from what I gather is no longer really interested if he ever was, and the other guy is way older than her and when he used to text her, she would play along just to get her ego stoked.

What bothers me is the way she disrespects me, our marriage and shows no apprecitaion for what she's got. I take damn good care of her and this is how I'm repaid?

 

If it hadn't been for the fact that we have to children together, she would probably be history. I love my children and don't want to see them hurt.

 

If I confront her with this, it will end badly, one way or the other, and we've still got way too much

 

She's got a lot of issues, but what kind? And how do I tell her this if she won't hear it?

 

I know MC is a very good idea, and I'll try setting us up for that, but the waitinglist is long and we really just don't have time. I'm in the last year of my studies, and she's basically really tired all the time for no apparent reason, even though I take care of the kids most of the time, and cook (I know that's not an excuse, but that's the way things are.)

 

I'm also afraid I'm just confusing my love for my wife with co-dependancy. (Not really sure exactly what that is, but as far as I can tell I more or less fit the description of a co-dependant person) How can one tell?

 

I do actually want this marriage to work, not only for the kids, but because I love my wife, and she does love me, although apparently not enough.

 

Thoughts, anyone? Any ideas on how to confront her without this turning the marriage into a war-zone. Like I said, we really don't have the time or strenght to deal with something like that at the moment. I wonder if we ever will. I need her to stop taking me for granted, but how?

 

I know much of this post is just ranting, but as many of you know, posting here also works as therapy, and like I said, when I started writing this I was shaking, but now I have calmed down considerably, so apparently it works.....Hope you can make any sense from it. Sorry about the lenght....

 

 

I know what some of you are going to say; "grow some balls, be a man, show her who's boss....." It's not always that black and white, you know.

 

Sometimes I feel I'm going crazy.....

[JamesM]

Wow, I haven't followed your story in awhile. I remember quite awhile back that you had sex problems between the two, but I didn't know about the "affairs." Now this. I do feel your pain.

 

What to do. I am not sure I have ready answers. Being straightforward is not a good option, because you "snooped." On the other hand, why did she leave it out for you to see with such incriminating evidence in it? Did she want you to look? WHy?

 

I know what some of you are going to say; "grow some balls, be a man, show her who's boss....." It's not always that black and white, you know.

 

Anyone who says that has not experienced your pain. No, I would never say that. Hopefully no one here would be stupid enough to say that either.

[MrDarcy]

Hopefully no one here would be stupid enough to say that either.

 

Well there are a few regulars who write things like that, and in a way thay do have a point, but usually in cases like this that doesn't really solve anything. I have to admit i liked reservoirdogs reply to my original thread, but it appealed to me more like a fantasy than something that I could actually go through with.

 

No, I don't think she wanted me to look, she's just a little careless with where she leaves it. And the diary was closed...

Then again, who knows... But the huge fight confronting her with what she's written would cause is not something I can handle right now....

[Moose]

I kind of skimmed through the original post.

 

I'll give you my take on this whole thing. First off, I hope you learned your lesson that you shouldn't let your wife go on overnite trips unless you're with her, or she's with family.

 

You're just asking for a mystery if you do.

 

Secondly, women have fantasies and desires just like men. They lust, yearn for, and desire men, just like men lust, yearn for and desire women.

 

Just because she's married doesn't mean she's dead.......

 

You'll just have either:

 

A. Learn to live with it

B. Let her go and save yourself alot of long nights wondering and worrying that she's cheating.

 

Until you actually catch her in the act, or confess to it, I suggest you cherish your wife and love her the way she needs to be loved.

[MrDarcy]

Moose:

 

First off, if I told my wife that she couldn't go she would accuse me of being controlling and not trusting her. Nonetheless I will not let her go on any trips alone again, although on the trip in question she was staying with friends so she wasn't alone as such.

 

Secondly, I do not deny my wife fantasies, if she want's to fantasise about other men then that's her business. However this is not about fantasies. This is about her still thinking about a man she had a crush on, and still not showing any signs of remorse about doing so. She's also disrespecting our marriage, even if it's only in her diary.

 

I love my wife and I show it in every possible way, and I do not suspect her of cheating.

[Moose]

Let her accuse you then. It doesn't matter now, what's done is done. Learn from it and live on. She was staying with friends, not family. Friends aren't loyal. Family are, (most of them)....

 

So she thinks she has a, "crush" on someone. Do you hear how childish that sounds/is?

 

If there are men in my wife's life that she finds very attractive, and looks forward to seeing again. So what? She's married to me.

 

People are allowed to have their own feelings......you're going to have to trust that she doesn't act on them, or let her go.

 

Otherwise, you in for a miserable life.....

 

The ball is in your court, not hers. She's done nothing wrong.......

[MrDarcy]

Moose: I take it you don't consider emotional affairs as doing something wrong, in which case we're not really on the same page, but I appreciate your opinion.

 

Am I simply setting my standards too high when asking for a woman who feels bad about having these thoughts while married to a devoted loving husband?

[IpAncA]

First off no offense here but your wife should know better then to write what you read down and then leave it out in the open for everyone to see. If she didn't want you to read what she writes and you did and you tell her, she's gonna be ticked and then everything is back in the open again. Then again she may have wanted you to read it. Don't know though.

 

Even though you shouldn't have read it, its kind of good that you did because now you know whats going on in her head and that things are not what you thought they were. She also may just be venting and such in her diary and didn't tell you because you might not react the way that she wants you too.

[Moose]

Moose: I take it you don't consider emotional affairs as doing something wrong, in which case we're not really on the same page, but I appreciate your opinion.

She's not having an emotional affair. You said your self:

And she has indeed cut contact with them, so she gets credit for that, but apparently, the root of the issue still remains.

You seem to be thinking that the issue is hers. How can you be too sure?

Am I simply setting my standards too high when asking for a woman who feels bad about having these thoughts while married to a devoted loving husband?

You may be devoted, and loving, but what is lacking to cause her to be this way? What am I missing?

 

You can't control people's feelings. There's no way.....besides...how do you know she doesn't feel bad???

 

BTW, yes, I am totally against emotional affairs.....

[MrDarcy]

Moose: she did have an emotional affair, still has not admitted to doing something wrong, and in stead of focusing on rebuilding our marriage, she's sulking about not being able to continue communicating with the OM, and on top of this she admits to herself she wants to fool around with someone else than me. You think this healthy, normal behaviour in a marriage?

 

You may be devoted, and loving, but what is lacking to cause her to be this way? What am I missing?

 

What's missing is the "thrill-of-the-chase". She's become too used to having me treating her like a queen.

[Moose]

Can you define, "treating her like a queen"?

 

Something just doesn't jive here. She's had an emotional affair, she's been caught, you expect an apology, and she isn't offering it.

 

Sounds like both of you are holding some resentment for each other. I know where yours is coming from, but what about her?

[MrDarcy]

She resents me for being what's preventing her from "having her fun", and I resent her for wanting to. It's a mess.

[Moose]

So, you view this as her, "having fun".

 

Has it ever occurred to you that you might've drove her into looking for this, "fun"?

 

Most women don't behave like this for no reason......

 

The ones who do don't belong in a marriage anyways......

[JamesM]

So, you view this as her, "having fun".

 

Has it ever occurred to you that you might've drove her into looking for this, "fun"?

 

Most women don't behave like this for no reason......

 

The ones who do don't belong in a marriage anyways......

 

Moose, let's not start the "you drove her to her (almost) affair" line. I know the general rule is that no matter who started the affair...it still is the guy's fault.

 

My view is that the wife probably had at least an EA...probably more. Now she still has that interest and is writing it down in her diary. I have no doubts that Mr Darcy is not a perfect husband...none of us are. But he is asking direction. So, I say...pretend you never saw the diary and keep your eyes open while making every effort to woo back your wife completely, or the alternative...confront her regarding what you read, and deal with the fallout.

[MrDarcy]

Moose: I was saying this is her idea of having fun. Actually, I think she desperately needs the attention. I'm trying to figure out why. I do all I can to make her feel attractive, but it seems to peel right off. There's nothing wrong with other men telling my wife she's attractive, I don't mind that, but apparently she gets confused and feels she's in love with every man who pays her a compliment.

No, I did not drive her into this. I have done nothing wrong, and like I said, I do all I can to make her feel attractive and desired. But apparently that's just not enough. I'm afraid it's her insecurity that's driving her into this.

 

James: I feel all I do is woo my wife....but thanks anyway. I guess I know what I need to do, but it helps venting a little....

[Flyin in Clouds]

Maybe she wants you to talk to her about this. Maybe she wants you to show her you care enough to get fighting mad over her. Just a thought. I mean would you be willing to fight the other guys to keep her? If it was my wife I would. The other guys would be bleeding by now.

[Guest]

ahhhhhhhhh...the answer is violence?....never, takes more guts to walk away then to pound someone for something u had no part in. sounds sort george bushish to me! now, if i was married and in a club and some guy walked up and started kissing her YES..and trust me, i fight like ed norton in the fight club.

 

so no - never violence. great example for kids too. lets see, the other reason would be? she left me and cheated - i didn't do anything. and if it was just for sex, that's just means someone was 'detached' but if 'emotional' - well, isn't that what its all about? the connection?

[MrDarcy]

Flyin: The last time I tried talking about it, I was accused of being controlling and whiny. Like i said, communication is not very good between us. I'm trying to communicate my feelings and needs, but I'm just not getting through. It's not tempting to go down that road again.

 

She may just be venting, but it bothers me that she still seems to blame me for not being able to talk to the OM. Like it's not something she chose, it's because I told her to stop. I just want her to admit to herself that she did something wrong. I don't really have a problem with her thinking about the OM, as long as she knows it's wrong.

 

Take InAPanic for example. (read the cheating....who did not tell... thread) She cheated, physically too, but at least she realized she was doing something terribly wrong and had the courage to stop and come clean, and I admire and respect her for it. She still missed the OM afterwards, but realized she did the right thing. That's all I want from my wife. I'm hoping she just needs time.

 

Some of you may think that my wife hasn't done anthing near as serious as having a physical affair, but when I first confronted her about it she was heading straight into a full-blown emotional affair with potential to develop further.

[whichwayisup]

I hope your wife comes clean, but until she feels the consquences of her actions, she may not. Especially if she doesn't see what she is doing is wrong.

Her mindset isn't like it was before she met this OM. She isn't thinking at all and has shut her heart to you, emotionally anyway.

[hardrock]

You need to go ahead and confront her about the diary. Sounds like you are afraid of the confrontation. You need to change your attitude about this before you get in too deep. You need to look at this from a different perspective. You do not need your wife to make you happy. When you figure that out, it will start to become clearer. It will take a while, but the payoff is worth it.

 

When you confront her, don't be controlling and whiny. How is reading her diary either? She left it out in plain view, it's not locked away in a vault. You have every right to read every word. It's your reaction to what she writes that will make you portray those feelings. You can only control what is yours to own. Half the marriage, half the money, your duties, skills, etc. You cannot control her thoughts, emotions, wants, desires.

 

I think her desires are very common. To write them in a place you could access is not. I do not think she respects you very much and you are veering into doormat territory. You need to work on the controlling and whiny aspects she sees you as. Write down some moments that you feel she has portrayed you as controlling or whiny and lets go through them for a better perspective.

[MrDarcy]

You're right about me being too dependent on her to make me happy. I've become more aware of this lately, and I am in fact gaining a new perspective on things. She has the right to feel whatever she wants. What bothers me is, like I said, her not feeling any remorse about it. She's showing all the typical characteristics many of the cheaters I've read about here on LS show; denial, justification, seeing me as an obstacle....

 

I don't want to control her. I want her to be able to control herself. I want to be able to trust her. For her to see what she's doing. And confronting her with this will probably only appear as another attempt to get in the way and control her.

 

Actually, Moose, you may have a point. It just took me some time to realize it. She has to take responsibility for her own actions. It's not my responsibility to make sure she doesn't do anything wrong. In fact I think this "treating her like a queen" has gone a little too far. I can't help it, it's just the way I was raised. I guess they forgot take ungrateful spoilt girls into consideration when telling me to treat women like queens.

 

Unfortunately, the saying 'you don't know what you've got till it's gone' does apply to her in this situation.

I'm not saying I'm the perfect husband, heck I've got plenty of flaws, but I have devoted myself entirely to her and our marriage, while she will apparently only obsess about the things she can't have.

 

In the end, I really love my wife, at least the real her, but how can I get her out of this hole of self-pity that she keeps digging herself deeper and deeper into?

[Kenyth]

I may be totally off base here, but how old is she? Did she live at home before you married her? Did she get along with her parents? Some young women (and men too I might add) marry, not for love or a relationship, but for a way to establish independance and get out on their own. This can make for a real mess later on, since they're essentially "playing" house. These types don't want a spouse, they want a parental type security figure to take care of them so they can go out and play. Their current spouse is nothing but a stepping stone in their life. It's pure emotional immaturity. Listen to what he says. She "sulks" because he's "controlling" her. What is he, her father and her the petulant teen? She can do what she want's, but like any other adult, she must take the consequences of that choice.

 

If this is true, she's married, but dissatisfied because she's traded one control filled lifestyle for another in the pursuit of freedom and independance. She'll be true to him for a while, but only because she's scared to be left all alone and unprotected. It's not love and accceptance. She's coercing herself.

 

Regardless, your next conversations need to be with a marriage couselor and need to address whether or not she wants to be married to you. If she doesn't, you're going to need to let her go. A sense of imminent loss, more than anything else may help here. But if she's truly yearning for an independant single lifestyle that she feels she's missed out on, there's not much you can do about it. She'll have to walk her own path. Hopefully, if this is the case, there aren't any kids involved.

[Ladyjane14]

She has the right to feel whatever she wants.

 

Sure she does. But so do YOU, kiddo.

 

There's something seriously wrong in your communications process when you don't feel free to tell your partner what your ENs are. It seems obvious enough to me that what YOU need most emotionally right now... is some reassurance from your wife.

 

So, I agree with the others. You need to ASK for what you need. That's something that you're responsible for in holding up your end of the relationship, right? The woman doesn't have a crystal ball, and she apparently has NO SKILLS when it comes to observation.

If she did, she'd see that you're hurting right now.

 

Yeah... you'll have to "confront" her and admit that you snooped. Odds are, you'll have a huge row before it's all ironed out. But it still beats the hell out of suffering in silence.

 

You know, lots and lots of folks develop an almost obsessional focus on other people when they're stressed. Particular true, when the source of the stress feels vague or insurmountable. It's simple escapism in alot of cases... evading undefinable problems. It's possible that she, herself, doesn't understand why she's experiencing these feelings of attraction for others.

 

Long and short of it.... I can't see how you'll resolve either her feelings or your own, if you don't talk about it. Conflict avoidance will more than likely dig the hole deeper, IMO.

[MrDarcy]

Kenyth, you're both right and wrong. She moved out before we moved together.

In fact, when she was living with her mom (Divorced parents), she had to be "the parent" in the house. Her mother was, and basically is a neurotic basket case. Has a lot to do with her first husband treating her like crap, cheating, drinking and being pretty-much an über-******* before they finally divorced (although he managed to create a lot of trouble after that too and still does). The only thing I don't think he did was hit his wife, but I'm not sure. This, and my wife having to play parent to her two younger brothers has probably had some effect on her, but how will this affect a person later in life, and is the way she's acting now somehow linked to those experiences? I can't say.

 

Anyway, between the age of 16 and 19 she was living a lot abroad, some of the time with her mom, and got the chance to get a little wild. However, it seems somehow she never really put those years behind her. I get the feeling she desperately wants to feel like she did during those years again. Free to do whatever she wants. Why is she having so much trouble putting the past behind her?

 

I guess the answer to that somhow lies in the fact that we both were relatively inexperienced as far as relationships go, and the fact that we had our daughter very soon after we began going steady (three years). Now I know there are other couples who get married and have children almost immediately after meeting each other. Do they have the same kind of problems? i even spent the first year at home with the children while she was finishing her education.

 

I also had a lot of opportunities taken away from me after meeting her. I was in fact on my way to start training at the air force pilot academy when we got back together (we were dating in high-school, for six months), and in this country, only a very small percentage are accepted to this academy due to a very selective screening process. I don't blame this on her, it was my own fault, but I was so in love that I didn't focus enough on the training (which requires 110%), so I basically flunked out. I was gonna try again, but a few years after she became pregnant with our daughter, and my priorities changed. I still dream about becoming a pilot, but I don't blame her or my kids for not being able to become one, nor do I harbor any bitterness towards her. I blame no one but myself. I never really think much about the 'could have beens' what's the point? I suspect she does, though. How can I help her to leave the past in the past and stop mourning lost opportunities and look forward towards creating a future with us in it? I'm sure we all have felt like that at some point, but how do you get past feeling like that? I also miss those good old days, but I don't get bitter or start pitying myself, or try to relive them. Maybe I will some day, but that kind of thinking is only destructive. In a way I can understand that she would feel that way, but I don't see why she would be so obsessed about it, if that's what it's all about.

 

Opinions, anyone? Sorry about the long post.