Are men afraid of independence in a woman?

October 16, 2006

I keep hearing all the time from woman how men are afraid of independent women that can support themselves but this is not true for most men. Most men don't want some gold digger that is only after their money but what men can't stand is the mentality by some women that men are disposable and an afterthought. Some women have the mentality that you are not needed, barely wanted and she is doing you a favor by even having anything to do with you. My wife makes her own money and can easily live on her own but she doesn't make me feel disposable and useless and that is why we have such a great relationship. On the other hand I see women who let their men know everyday that they are not needed and might leave at anytime and they wonder why their relationship is going down the tubes. Also why is it that most women who claim that no man is ever good enough for usually have the least to offer themselves? I once dated a woman who thought all men were inferior to her but all she had was looks. Beyond looks there was nothing there.

October 16, 2006

I know there was a long while in my life where I felt men treated me as though I were disposable. That women were just holes to be used and disgarded. And I could list off a long line of men who treat women like disposable objects, to be used and discarded without thought... but I'm not coming up with a single woman that I know who is like that.... hmmm.. Let me think on that... hm..... nope.

You wanna point fingers toward which gender started the war then take a good long look at your own gender. Some of the crap men pull, I wouldn't have ever thought to do that to my worst enemy. But men, they don't bat an eye. They'll **** a girl and two seconds later kick her out of the bed.

So I'm not understanding the "why are women so evil" thread. Other than the fact that you like to pontificate on how great your woman is in comparison.

In addition, I don't understand the desire to understand the mentality of a person who you can't prove exists. Now, if you wanted to talk reality, maybe that'd be a good discussion. Like... why did Suzie who I dated in my early 20's treat me like a disposable piece of garbage... then maybe we'd have something to build off of. Like how she had spent 4 years being treated like scum by guys and when she finally met you she had transferred her feelings of inferiority onto you. Or maybe she had a power complex that you could trace back to her formative years... whatever.

But this... why do women who don't exist except in a hypothetical situation act in hypothetical ways?? If you want hypothetical answers, then fine. But I don't feel it's going to really answer any quesions.

If you want to ask "Walk, why do you let your guy know you could leave at any time, and you'd be just fine without him?" Well, then I would say, because frankly Woggle... He introduced that mentality to the relationship early on. I just picked the ball up and started playing his game. He decided it wasn't so much fun anymore and got pissy about it....

And since your past has been littered with women who you didn't need, and who were disposable.... then who's the one that originally fostered that mentality? I'm just asking a hypothetical question, since this is all theoretical and we aren't really talking about real life here.

October 16, 2006

I know there was a long while in my life where I felt men treated me as though I were disposable. That women were just holes to be used and disgarded. And I could list off a long line of men who treat women like disposable objects, to be used and discarded without thought... but I'm not coming up with a single woman that I know who is like that.... hmmm.. Let me think on that... hm..... nope.

You wanna point fingers toward which gender started the war then take a good long look at your own gender. Some of the crap men pull, I wouldn't have ever thought to do that to my worst enemy. But men, they don't bat an eye. They'll **** a girl and two seconds later kick her out of the bed.

So I'm not understanding the "why are women so evil" thread. Other than the fact that you like to pontificate on how great your woman is in comparison.

In addition, I don't understand the desire to understand the mentality of a person who you can't prove exists. Now, if you wanted to talk reality, maybe that'd be a good discussion. Like... why did Suzie who I dated in my early 20's treat me like a disposable piece of garbage... then maybe we'd have something to build off of. Like how she had spent 4 years being treated like scum by guys and when she finally met you she had transferred her feelings of inferiority onto you. Or maybe she had a power complex that you could trace back to her formative years... whatever.

But this... why do women who don't exist except in a hypothetical situation act in hypothetical ways?? If you want hypothetical answers, then fine. But I don't feel it's going to really answer any quesions.

If you want to ask "Walk, why do you let your guy know you could leave at any time, and you'd be just fine without him?" Well, then I would say, because frankly Woggle... He introduced that mentality to the relationship early on. I just picked the ball up and started playing his game. He decided it wasn't so much fun anymore and got pissy about it....

And since your past has been littered with women who you didn't need, and who were disposable.... then who's the one that originally fostered that mentality? I'm just asking a hypothetical question, since this is all theoretical and we aren't really talking about real life here.

Damn what got into you? I am simply making an observation about things that I witness. Also just because men in the past may have treated you like crap does that give you the right to take it out on innocent men or is no men innocent in your eyes? All men deserve to suffer for what you went through right?

October 16, 2006

Some men are afraid of independence in women and some are not.

October 16, 2006

Damn what got into you? I am simply making an observation about things that I witness. Also just because men in the past may have treated you like crap does that give you the right to take it out on innocent men or is no men innocent in your eyes? All men deserve to suffer for what you went through right?

Define innocent.

I live by the do unto others philosophy. I treat all people like they treat me. Only reason I pulled that crap on the bf is because he pulled it on me. Took me months to get to the point where I'd had enough before I started fighting back. No amount of "Please don't, that hurts my feelings" was working. A little display of the behavior he was giving me, cut him enough to show him the damage his behavior was causing. He was smart and stopped.

But men seem to think that using a woman like an object is okay, but then are insulted and appalled that women would pick up that mentality and hand it back to them.

So what are your "observations"? Give me facts, details, descriptions.. Otherwise, all your doing is asking why are women bitches. In which case, a response of "men are *******s." is appropriate.

It's all theoretical, hypothetical.. In simplier words.. I'ts not based in reality.

Never mind.. I'm going to bed. You can post your "All women, except my wife, suck and are a plauge upon life!" in peace... But, I've had my fill this weekend. Thanks.

October 16, 2006

I am simply making an observation about things that I witness.

And you must remember that your 'observation' is skewed by your interpretation. No human can make a purely objective observation. And therefore no human can logically believe that his observation is the absolute truth.

The day you can actually read minds and truly understand what is going on in the hated female brain is the day you will be entitled to say these things. Otherwise, it's not anything more than an opinion colored by your early experiences.

October 16, 2006

I keep hearing all the time from woman how men are afraid of independent women that can support themselves but this is not true for most men.

Ever notice when you buy a new car that you seem to see them everywhere for a while? It's what you are focused upon Woggle.

Most men don't want some gold digger that is only after their money but what men can't stand is the mentality by some women that men are disposable and an afterthought.

Most? That word has no purpose in ordinary conversation other than to demonstrate that the user does not have any evidence to back up what they say other than that which is subjective and anecdotal at best. Please don't use that word.

Some women have the mentality that you are not needed, barely wanted and she is doing you a favor by even having anything to do with you.

Thank you. Of course 'some' women (and men) feel that way. So?

My wife makes her own money and can easily live on her own but she doesn't make me feel disposable and useless and that is why we have such a great relationship.

I'm glad things are going well for you. Remember a relationship takes two people to make it work, keep working at making it work too ok.

On the other hand I see women who let their men know everyday that they are not needed and might leave at anytime and they wonder why their relationship is going down the tubes.

Is that a relationship or a hostage situation? The men, as well as the women, are free to leave at any time.

Also why is it that most women who claim that no man is ever good enough for usually have the least to offer themselves? I once dated a woman who thought all men were inferior to her but all she had was looks. Beyond looks there was nothing there.

Thank you for illustrating another piece of anecdotal evidence. If you believed that she had nothing to offer beyond her looks perhaps it is because you and her were not in tune to what each other thought important in a relationship.

October 16, 2006

All the men I dated, aside from the psycho, preferred making more money than me. Two of them wanted me to stop working altogether and just stay home and cook and clean. Which is nice and all but boring.

So I don't know. IME men like the feeling of being needed or knowing that they have a role to play in the partnership. But that's just me.

October 16, 2006

The men I have known over the years (including my 4 brothers) enjoy a strong personality and independence in a woman. This did not mean that the woman ever made them feel inferior... as it is viewed as an equal partnership when it is healthy for both sides.

I think it has to do with how secure the man is in the relationship and what they tend to attract (based on their "healthy " outlook and attitude...)

October 16, 2006

I am not afraid of a womans independence, rather I am attracted to it. I want a woman who has her own life/friends, as well as one who does not have to rely on me. I want a woman who is with me for the purpose of love and friendship, not dependability.

October 16, 2006

The men I have known over the years (including my 4 brothers) enjoy a strong personality and independence in a woman. This did not mean that the woman ever made them feel inferior... as it is viewed as an equal partnership when it is healthy for both sides.

I think it has to do with how secure the man is in the relationship and what they tend to attract (based on their "healthy " outlook and attitude...)

I like that as well but I also like to feel appreciated and wanted just like most women do. Some women make a man feel like he is a slug that she keeps around.

October 16, 2006

I know there was a long while in my life where I felt men treated me as though I were disposable. That women were just holes to be used and disgarded. And I could list off a long line of men who treat women like disposable objects, to be used and discarded without thought... but I'm not coming up with a single woman that I know who is like that.... hmmm.. Let me think on that... hm..... nope.

I beg to differ. I am of the opinion that there are women who do use men, maybe not in the same particular fashion (e.g. a hole to be used and discarded), but there are women who use men to meet their needs.

How about the women who;

Use a man to make another man jealous

Use a man to fix their car, their computer, their kitchen drain for free

Use a man to make them feel less insecure or lonely

Use a man to make them feel attractive

Use a man to make them feel powerful.

And when I say use a man, I mean someone they have no interest in dating, but will flirt and whatnot to get what they want.

The coin does have two sides you just have to flip it over.

That being said, I personally like independent women. Yes I do enjoy playing the knight in rusty battered armor sometimes, but having been married once to a very dependent woman, I believe I have the wisdom of experience to know that a woman who can take care of themselves is what I want.

October 16, 2006

I beg to differ. I am of the opinion that there are women who do use men, maybe not in the same particular fashion (e.g. a hole to be used and discarded), but there are women who use men to meet their needs.

I know there are all types of people out there. But to specifically say "Some women are.... gold diggers only after money, mentality that [people]are disposable and an afterthought. not needed, barely wanted and she is doing you a favor by even having anything to do with you."

Suggesting that these traits only exist in women? We all know that the world is made up of individuals who have bad traits and characteristics. So if you want to bad mouth a TYPE of person, fine... bash people who are users, who manipulate others for their own selfish desires, etc. But I'm not understanding how Woggle got to the leap in logic that said "independent woman" would equal "Selfish manipulative bitch".

Why not ask what traits men believe make up a independent woman, and why do those traits make men feel inferior or not needed. Then there's a discussion. Then you could expound on the psychological reasons behind why men feel threatened by those types of characteristics. You could potentially say that men are instilled with the idea that they need to provide certain aspects to a woman in order to be viewed as a real man in society. And when a woman has shown she's capable of providing those things (money) better than the man, then the man feels worthles, unneccesary in the relationship....

But geez, the way Woggle framed it, it sounds more like.. "If you were confronted by a woman who felt she was gods gift to the earth and treated men like dirt, then you wouldn't like her." Well, DUH! I wouldn't like anyone like that.. Wouldnt' matter which gender.

Maybe I'm just reading it wrong... I didn't get much sleep. Maybe he's really asking what traits make up societies version of an independent women and questing to understand the deeper meanings that money and wealth carry within relationships. But I really think he just wanted an excuse to rag on women again...

October 17, 2006

I think men have dogged women for so long that it is just coming back around to them. Sorry but men have used women like disposable napkins for years and now that women aren't settling they are upset. I hate to generalize because every person is different. I don't think it's an epidemic that women are walking out on their husbands and boyfriends. There may be a lot of men on LS complaining but I don't think it's a "national" thing going on.

October 17, 2006

I think men have dogged women for so long that it is just coming back around to them. Sorry but men have used women like disposable napkins for years and now that women aren't settling they are upset. I hate to generalize because every person is different. I don't think it's an epidemic that women are walking out on their husbands and boyfriends. There may be a lot of men on LS complaining but I don't think it's a "national" thing going on.

So because some men are jerks and players that now makes it okay for women to do the same to men who are not jerks and players? All men should be punished for the actions of a few? According to your logic it would be okay to abuse my daughter If I had one because my mother abused me.

October 17, 2006

Independence to me means being able to take care of my own needs in a healthy manner, so I most definitely believe that women should be independent.

Independence promotes self-worth and self-esteem. It also gives you the confidence to walk away from an unfulfilling or abusive relationship. Healthy, secure men are attracted to independent, confident women.

Being financially independent enhances your own self-worth, and gives you the freedom to make better choices in relationships.

October 17, 2006

Of course not. It's just the way world has grown. Just like back in the 50's women stayed home and was the "little wife". They were happy with that life. Now women have more opportunities, have their own careers, make their own money and things have changed in how they view themselves. I don't think women are trying to pay men back for what they did to their foremothers, I just think this is where we have evolved to.

October 17, 2006

Everlong my response was to Woggle's post #15, not yours.

October 17, 2006

Of course not. It's just the way world has grown. Just like back in the 50's women stayed home and was the "little wife". They were happy with that life. Now women have more opportunities, have their own careers, make their own money and things have changed in how they view themselves. I don't think women are trying to pay men back for what they did to their foremothers, I just think this is where we have evolved to.

I got you know. Your post made it seem like you were saying that since men are jerks that all of them deserve to be treated like crap because they are born male. I actually prefer a woman that makes her own money but I hear many woman say that men are nothing but wallets with penises so when a woman already has the money some men feel useless because that is how many women feel.

October 17, 2006

I hear many woman say that men are nothing but wallets with penises

How strange that you've heard many women say that. I'm older than you, I've spoken to lots of women about men in my lifetime - and I can honestly say I don't remember a single one ever saying that.

You must actively seek out the company of women who continually say derogatory things about men, Woggle. I can't see any other explanation.

October 17, 2006

How strange that you've heard many women say that. I'm older than you, I've spoken to lots of women about men in my lifetime - and I can honestly say I don't remember a single one ever saying that.

You must actively seek out the company of women who continually say derogatory things about men, Woggle. I can't see any other explanation.

I have heard that said ONE TIME in my life......... from the pop tart snarfing kitchen chicken..... but see you just consider the source.

Word on seeking out man haters........ or seeking out those comments, or actually maybe fishing for them?

October 17, 2006

I think it may be possible that through the years in some subconcious way I have sought out woman that were like my mother. It's strange though how I stumbled on to a woman that is her polar opposite.

October 17, 2006

yeah........ok.........

how is therapy going? DId you get a male therapist? Or are you still banging your head against a brick wall??

October 17, 2006

I think it may be possible that through the years in some subconcious way I have sought out woman that were like my mother.

Could be. Something to discuss in more depth with your counsellor, perhaps? People do often recreate familiar patterns in their relationships, maybe in the hope of eventually achieving resolution via a positive outcome.

It's strange though how I stumbled on to a woman that is her polar opposite.

Perhaps there are some good traits that they share? Nobody is all bad, Woggle.

October 17, 2006

Also why is it that most women who claim that no man is ever good enough for usually have the least to offer themselves? I once dated a woman who thought all men were inferior to her but all she had was looks. Beyond looks there was nothing there.

I agree, now im not going to take any sides but that applies to both sexes.

I've dated girls who had nothing to offer except looks (or not even depending on the eyes of the beholder).

I know guys who are picky with certain women and see them inferior to themselves, and the ironic thing is these same guys have been single forever...when they themselves dont have anything to offer them, period.

My observation is that this is more of a manifestation of their own insecurities, to see others in an inferior form other than themselves.

It's normal to have standards, and theres nothing wrong with it.

There are plenty of guys who are in relationships with women who have nothing going for them (maybe not even looks), and there are plenty of women who are in relationships with loser/bum guys.

That's life in a nutshell...

And speaking on my behalf, I have nothing against a woman who's independent and financially stable. Only insecure people make this an issue.

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Are men afraid of independence in a woman?

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