Mr A M Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 Hi I originally posted this is second chances - but I think this forum would be better. (Sorry - I'm new) My partner (S) and I have been together for 20 years, we have no children. When we met we were both married. I divorced my wife in 2 years whereas S took 4 years to leave her husband. Since we have been together I believe she has been constantly disloyal, whereas she believes that while she has made some mistakes her behaviour is not that unusual. This is some of the stuff I have had to put up with. (1) keeping in contact with an ex lover in a VERY friendly way by phone and letter. She stopped when I told her, but I had to tell her to stop. (2) having sex with her husband after she had sex with me. Again I had to tell her to stop, she didn't do it voluntarily. (3) After 10 years together she tells me she fancies one of our friends and was looking forward in anticipation to see him again. She says nothing happened between them (not even a friendly hug). I believe her but she fancied someone else when she was with me ! Again I made her break all contact with him, so now I have lost a friend. (4) last year after 20 years together she starts flirting with one of our friends who had just split up from his partner. She won't cuddle me in his company because she says it is rubbing it in his face that he is alone and we are together. I say it just makes her look available and like a tart. (5) Now she has decided that it is NORMAL for her to go out socially without me, either with girl friends or even with our male friends if i am not around. In 20 years she has never gone out without me - why suddenly change now ? Anyway I have told her that if she does go it will be the last thing that she does - her clothes will be on the doorstep. I have always put up with this behaviour from her. Sometimes I get angry with her disloyalty, and I must confess I have hit her more than once. But she accepts it is because she has done wrong and made me angry. But after 20 years of it I am beginning to wonder if I have been a fool to stick with her. We were on the verge of splitting up several times last year, but each time I gave her another chance. Was I right? Would anyone else put up with this sort of behaviour ?
Yamaha Posted October 15, 2006 Posted October 15, 2006 Sometimes I get angry with her disloyalty, and I must confess I have hit her more than once. But she accepts it is because she has done wrong and made me angry I am beginning to wonder if I have been a fool to stick with her. I think the only fool is her for staying with an abusive partner.
whichwayisup Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 Since we have been together I believe she has been constantly disloyal, whereas she believes that while she has made some mistakes her behaviour is not that unusual. You both were disloyal to your previous spouses....... Why did you stay married to this woman for 20 years if you were so unhappy? You're both fools because you've put up with it and her for sticking around and putting up with abuse. Get a divorce because life isn't going to change UNLESS you're both willing to go to marriage counselling together and also you need some anger management treatment. There is NO EXCUSE to hit your wife.
Author Mr A M Posted October 16, 2006 Author Posted October 16, 2006 whichwayisup - you ask why I stayed. I loved this woman with all my heart, and she made me believe that she loved me too. I would have died for her, but she seems to be doing her best to kill our relationship. I know it's no excuse but when I am hurt I get angry and at times the anger becomes physical. It is almost 5 years since I last hit her. Somtimes when we argue she still makes me angry enough to feel like lashing out but I am controlling it. Am I wrong to feel so betrayed and hurt by her actions?
everlong Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 day after day alone on the hill the man with a thousand faces standing perfectly still but no-one ever sees him cuz they know what he's gonna do and he never gives an answer but the fool on the hill sees the sun going down and the eyes in his head sees the world spinning round
everlong Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 WATCHING THE RIVER FLOW(Words and Music by Bob Dylan)1971, 1976 Big Sky MusicWhat's the matter with me,I don't have much to say,Daylight sneakin' through the windowAnd I'm still in this all-night caf.Walkin' to and fro beneath the moonOut to where the trucks are rollin' slow,To sit down on this bank of sandAnd watch the river flow.Wish I was back in the cityInstead of this old bank of sand,With the sun beating down over the chimney topsAnd the one I love so close at hand.If I had wings and I could fly,I know where I would go.But right now I'll just sit here so contentedlyAnd watch the river flow.People disagreeing on all just about everything, yeah,Makes you stop and all wonder why.Why only yesterday I saw somebody on the streetWho just couldn't help but cry.Oh, this ol' river keeps on rollin', though,No matter what gets in the way and which way the wind does blow,And as long as it does I'll just sit hereAnd watch the river flow.People disagreeing everywhere you look,Makes you wanna stop and read a book.Why only yesterday I saw somebody on the streetThat was really shook.But this ol' river keeps on rollin', though,No matter what gets in the way and which way the wind does blow,And as long as it does I'll just sit hereAnd watch the river flow.Watch the river flow,Watchin' the river flow,Watchin' the river flow,But I'll sit down on this bank of sandAnd watch the river flow.
Romeo Must Die Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 This reminded me of a funny Mad TV comedy skit. A troubled young couple goes to a marriage counsellor. The doctor talks with an indian accent, he learned to talk listening to western music. He gives them marital advice quoting lyrics to love songs. "Doctor, my wife doesnt love me like she used to..." All you need is love my friend. Love makes the world go round!
everlong Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 INDEED! i am enjoying this and taking it light hearted because i have to go to work in 20 minutes and this is it for my online banter-ramas. i came on early and posted my 'OUT OF BUSINESS' sign - so not much point in this...gonna focus on some other keeno hobbies! cut and pasted this little gem from a site called - frustrated.com "i'm sitting here feeling really frustrated about this and i'm wondering if anyone else out there knows how to deal with this. i am NOT looking for pity or sympathy here, looking for people to share my opinion (or challenge it) and offer some advice. is this really more of a talking site then a meeting site? i find lots of people just want to chat online but not talk in person. i try to treat online socialization as i would talking to someone face to face, so i chat with people that i would actually talk to in person. yet i'm finding these people who talk to me regularly walk past me on the street and never say anything almost just as regular lol. do most of you find that you just talk to people online with the intention of actually meeting them and talking to them in person or is it just random 'chit chat' and killing some boredem? And does everyone think online chatting, using false identities is better than actually talking with someone in real life? I prefer this way. Anyone else feel the same? "
Romeo Must Die Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 Your feelings are not wrong, but you share half of the blame for this problem. I think you should talk to her and then the both of you can make this decision together. She may or not be deceitful. She may be trying to escape the abuse in an exit affair. You said "SHE IS DOING HER BEST TO KILL OUR RELATIONSHIP" I think that is accurate.
everlong Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 oh la la...sounds juicy...i love it when things really get into crisis mode...thats the 'rush' you just don't get in a boring old long term relationship.... details! [not trying to minimize someone's real struggle or pain...just lighting up the mood people] ducks from the crowd throwing tomatooooooooooos! i'm here every tuesday thru thursday - and remember to tip heavily..
Author Mr A M Posted October 16, 2006 Author Posted October 16, 2006 In answer to a few points I have no reason to suspect she is having an affair, it's just that she doesn't seem dedicated to the relationship. So many things have happened over the years that I feel I can't take any more. Maybe each one is small, but all together it is too much for me to cope with. We do talk by the way. We talk for hours, but we have very different ways of dealing with these issues. She says I should deal with the old stuff and forget it (or file it away somewhere) and that bringing up the same stuff for 10 or 15 years is not the right way to solve problems. I say that until we talk it through and I get a proper explanation for all her actions then I can't forget it and when she won't talk it's like brushing it under the carpet till next time. How can I make her understand that she is hurting me? If she would just behave like a normal human being then we would be alright. You don't get through 20 years together on thin air - there is a bond between us - it's just strained to its limit.
whichwayisup Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 Then go to marriage counselling together and fix things. LEARN how to really listen to eachother with an open mind, and talk it out.
Author Mr A M Posted October 16, 2006 Author Posted October 16, 2006 yes well........... Been there - done that, but with my first wife. She broke up our marriage by having an affair and I had to listen to the counsellor telling us week after week after week how hard done by my wife was, how wonderful women are and how awful men are. Can't see me going back there in a hurry. S would though - she thinks she will get some justification for her actions. She thinks the counsellor will tell her all her thoughts and actions are normal - part of the rough and tumble of everyday life, and all the problems come from me because I'm over-protective/jealous/non-trusting. I probably am, but I haven't had any evidence to suggest that I should behave any differently.
whichwayisup Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 This woman, your wife, isn't your previous wife...And, seeing as you met your present wife by cheating (and your current wife met you while cheating on her first husband) there is a pattern there. GO to marriage counselling, if it means saving your marriage, DO IT. All things aside, your anger IS an issue. Hitting your wife IS an issue. Her cheating on you is wrong, and lying about it is wrong. You both need help because if you don't change things, the marriage won't last long.
Author Mr A M Posted October 16, 2006 Author Posted October 16, 2006 Thank you for that. S always denies she has cheated on me. It is good to see that someone else thinks she is a cheat. She claims flirting is not cheating, nor is fancying someone. To her it has to be at least kissing or probably full sex before she calls it cheating, and as she has not done that she does not think she has cheated. (yes i know she slept with her husband while she was still married and having an affair with me - but was she cheating him or me???? It went on far longer than I would have liked but once they seperated she never saw him except for legal reasons) By the way we are not married - we have just been together a long time. We have no children, so in some ways it would be "easy" to walk away, but I'd be walking away from good things too. I'll think again about a counsellor, but I will need some convincing.
whichwayisup Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 Yes, seriously consider counselling... Oh, in the eyes of the law you two ARE married, seeing as you've lived together for so long...Common law. I hate to say this, but you also need to admit your part in why the marriage fell apart. It's just too easy to blame the other person, especially if they're cheating. Again, their choice to cheat, but the marriage probably has been rocky for a while, hense your anger towards her and the abuse. I don't mean to shove it in your face Mr A M, but you gotta take responsibility for your own actions as well. Sorry if I am harsh, but sometimes harsher advice is best rather than being sugar coated and all nicey nice. I do hope you find happiness and rid of your anger...(yes, I am trying to convince you here!!) Definately seek therapy, it can only better you and your life.
Guest Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 You are getting the crop you sewd 20 years ago. My ex ran off after 12 years into an exit affair with a guy who is an ass. Cheaters will always be cheaters. You are at heart yourself and your relationship didn't start on the premise of honesty and trust between two honest and trustworthy people. So you get what you deserve. When I move on, I hope to find another honest and trustworthy person who will love me without conditions forever as a spouse is supposed to do.
Flyin in Clouds Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 Yeah, I agree about counseling... men are always at fault, women cheaters were driven to it by bad men... of course if you cheat, it's your fault for being a man... But you hooked up with a cheater so what do you expect? Did you think her basic character would change? Just because she hooked up with you? I doubt you can change her behavior or attitudes, so your decision is to either live with her the way she is or leave her. Changing her... not likely to happen.
Author Mr A M Posted October 30, 2006 Author Posted October 30, 2006 Flyin in Clouds - thanks for your reply. I've been away, and we've been through some good and bad times so I haven't had a chance to write back. Interesting that you had a similar experience in counselling. I'm so angry at the moment. I get no sense out of S, she won't explain why she cheated on me with her husband. I feel that 20 years of my life has been a lie, a complete waste. In 2000 I had just about forgiven her for sleeping with her husband after sleeping with me then she tells me that in 1994 she fancied one of our friends. In 1994 we were just starting a new life in a new country. As far as I'm concerned she killed our relationship then. OK she didn't sleep with this bloke, (or kiss him or cuddle him) but she wanted him to be nice to her, tell her nice things, tell her that he liked her, missed her etc etc etc. Why? Aren't I enough? Isn't it enough that I love her? Why does she always need a bit on the side, a bit extra? I've never cheated on her, I've always loved and supported her. The only explanation for her behaviour is that she has never loved me. What a waste of a life. Sorry I needed to rant to someone. Mr AM.
Ladyjane14 Posted October 30, 2006 Posted October 30, 2006 If you continue to live in the past, how can you ever move forward? I honestly think you need some professional help. I'm not talking marriage counseling here... I'm talking psychiatric help for YOU. You're controlling and bitter, and you've got an anger management problem that results in occasional domestic violence. You're self-absorbed in your own emotions and quite possibly paranoid. Sorry.... but you asked. You say you love this woman, but you're so determined to find fault with her, if not in her actions of the present... then in her actions of the past. It's no wonder she's emotionally distant from you. You aren't a person who's emotionally trust-worthy. Get some help. Set up some individual counseling and get a depression screening. I'm sorry.... but I see you as a drowning man, pulling the ones closest to him under by virtue of panic. Get a deep breath, and SWIM. The only person who can save you.... is YOU. All that other bullsh*t was 20 years ago. People change in 20 years. Even prisoners get parole. You're not married to that woman, and you still wouldn't OWN her even if you were. If you want to keep her in your life, you need to start treating her right, and if you don't want her.... then man-up and just say so. All this torment isn't necessary.
Author Mr A M Posted October 31, 2006 Author Posted October 31, 2006 Dear Ladyjane14 I'm not living in the past - this is my life NOW. If S has done things wrong she can't just put it behind her and carry on with her life. If I have to deal with it everyday then so should she. I intend to remind her everyday until I see some remorse, some intent to change, some recognition of the hurt she has casued me. And I'm not going to let her walk away either. What right has she got to ruin my life for 20 years and then walk away? Believe me - I will make sure she is reminded of the destruction she has caused everyday for the rest of her life.
BabyPhoenix Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 I think the quotes below speak for themselves. I get no sense out of S, she won't explain why she cheated on me with her husband. In 2000 I had just about forgiven her for sleeping with her husband after sleeping with me :confused: Believe me - I will make sure she is reminded of the destruction she has caused everyday for the rest of her life. Seriously dude, you need some help.
Author Mr A M Posted October 31, 2006 Author Posted October 31, 2006 Thank you, I appreciate people replying - it gives me someone to talk to. But why do I need help ? I'm not the one cheating and lying and refusing to explain their actions. I've done nothing wrong except 20 years ago I fell in love with a disloyal, unfaithful woman, and spent the last 20 years trying to make something of the relationship.
iron_m Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 But why do I need help ? I'm not the one cheating and lying and refusing to explain their actions. I've done nothing wrong except 20 years ago I fell in love with a disloyal, unfaithful woman, and spent the last 20 years trying to make something of the relationship. you answered yourself, man. read the bold type. you'll find there at least 3 reasons why you need help. good luck.
JamesM Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 [And I'm not going to let her walk away either. What right has she got to ruin my life for 20 years and then walk away?/QUOTE] Boy oh Boy! I don't think you want to hear the responses to this one. First off, who is to say that you haven't ruined her life? Hitting her is one thing, but I am willing to guess that anger is a problem for you. So, she has ruined twenty years of your life? Instead of cutting your losses and moving on, you want her to stay and keep ruining your life? Something is wrong with the logic there. I've done nothing wrong except 20 years ago I fell in love with a disloyal, unfaithful woman, and spent the last 20 years trying to make something of the relationship. And you were not disloyal and unfaithful to your first wife? You both walked into a relationship KNOWING that the other is a cheater but choosing to ignore this glaring fact. It was just a matter of time before it came back to haunt you (oh, BTW, Happy Halloween!). Believe me - I will make sure she is reminded of the destruction she has caused everyday for the rest of her life. Seriously dude, you need some help
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