women that don't know what they want

[Rooster_DAR]

This thread was suggested by someone else on another thread where I posted a comment, so here goes.

 

Why does this seem like it's happening everywhere in the U.S.? Not to sound biased, but it seems to be mostly women that don't know what they want. Everyday I see a new post from a guy going through this exact same torture, and I myself just recently had a woman do this to me.

 

Women seem to now get unhappy very quickly, and look in someone else's back yard for a quick solution. I really am quite scared to even consider commitment in light of this explosion of uncommitment and infedelity. I understand there are good women out there, alot of them are on this site but there are so many that are having these issues, and I mean a many. I have watched close friends and colleagues go through this, and it has nearly ruined them emotionally.

 

Also, I have had a couple of women want to date me recently, and later I find out they are married or have a boyfriend when they initially told me they don't. WTF is going on with this CR**?

 

Sorry, just don't get it.

 

Regards,

[elijahBailey]

Wait, so yer sayin' the women in the country are more messed up than elsewhere in the world? just curious, any stats to back this up?

[justagirliegirl]

Lots of people have been raised spoiled and taught to act on every impulse. Plus living in a disposable society where people have become disposable too.

 

I find very few people male or female with decent values these days.

[whichwayisup]

Women seem to now get unhappy very quickly, and look in someone else's back yard for a quick solution.

 

Men do this just as much as women. It's now more people 'talk' about it in public forums, talkTV etc...

 

This is a reflection of changing times, less people 'value' marriage and what it actually means to live up to their vows. Too many people NEED that happiness ALL the time, seems not too many are making sacifices that happen when one settles down, or has kids. You just give up certain things in life and one of them is playing the field, giving more and being less selfish.

 

It's become a ME ME ME society and quick satisfaction, do whatever is necessary to make sure number one is looked after. Sad.....very sad.....

[Rooster_DAR]

Wait, so yer sayin' the women in the country are more messed up than elsewhere in the world? just curious, any stats to back this up?

 

I'm not sure if there are any (reliable) stats to backup any of this up, but I did read a good book called "Womens Infedility" which suggests more women are doing this than ever. I understand it's really a two way street, but I just noticed a lot of men posting on this forum that are going through this. Everday it's a new one.

 

Cheers!

[Rooster_DAR]

Lots of people have been raised spoiled and taught to act on every impulse. Plus living in a disposable society where people have become disposable too.

 

I find very few people male or female with decent values these days.

 

Yeah, it's kind of lame. Too many single parent families because of it.

[shawn_68]

I find very few people male or female with decent values these days.

 

So simple and so very well put. In my view it's at the HEART of the matter. And you're right, we do live in a disposable society.

 

I'll make a couple other comments and somebody can set me straight where I go astray.

 

A woman typically leaves a relationship based upon her feelings. If she doesn't "feel it" it's often over. She then rationalizes this into a decision with "reasons" to back it up. Not always the case but usually.

 

A man, on the other hand, typically leaves a relationship for more physical reasons. Lust. Sex. The chase.

 

Also, more than likely, both sexes leave with the perception of a "better" mate in mind. Rarely do either leave without another prospect in mind.

 

But beyond all this, it goes back to values. Someone with "values" doesn't act on the impulses described above. Sure they have them, everybody does. But there's something that holds them together in spite of all of this.

 

They understand that a long lasting relationship is not based upon feelings that can fade over time. And they realize that the grass may appear greener on the other side, and it may even be, but they STILL have an unwavering commitment regardless. Great marriages are founded upon this.

 

I like to sum it up this way: love is not a noun, it is a verb.

[everlong]

hey shawn i just posted similiar comments regarding values [see the rec part 2 post]

 

the only thing i would disagree with u on is that men and women leave a relationship for different reasons....i think both men and women are capable of every emotion and can leave for the same reasons...women are just as capable as men are of having lust...just as men are just as capable of hurting from emotional detachment....saying that one gender is more prone to a certain trait is like playing the race card [anyone watch surviour?]

[burning 4 revenge]

Lots of people have been raised spoiled and taught to act on every impulse. Plus living in a disposable society where people have become disposable too.

 

I find very few people male or female with decent values these days.

This is the issue indeed.

 

But didn't you dispose of your last husband?

[Rooster_DAR]

I opened up a thread over a month ago describing my theory about the whole thing. I really think it all has to do with evolution and pro-creation. By nature, we are like every other living thing, and natures sole purpose is natural selection and survival of the fittest. Maybe that's why we go against the very values we give ourselves, simply because nature is more powerful than our minds.

 

Regards,

[everlong]

hey roost,

 

not trying to stir up yer henhouse but isn't taking that side of the argument, that our sole innate driving purpose we exist in the first place, is to simply hump everything that comes within our 'marked territory' [dog pissing rights! lol]

 

hey, if i was a rhino or a walrus i would agree with you...but i am a human being and have a mind that enables me to make a choice between leading with my pecker or not...

 

gawd...i really think that when someone uses that as an excuse, it says that is really the 'best' they could come up with. a friend of mine said the EXACT same thing when he had an affair. now this guy has two degrees, smart guy, common sense type, values, etc. and when he told me had cheated on his wonderful wife i said 'why in the world would you do that?' and he said the same thing. i looked at him. he looked down and shuffled his feet and then looked back up and said 'naw....the real reason is she was really hot, and i just wanted to bonk someone else'. hard to admit sometimes that we do things, screw up our lives, simply for a night of happy humping. his wife left him, he got depressed, and moved to another city. all that for one night's piece o ass! amazing.

[elijahBailey]

I'm not sure if there are any (reliable) stats to backup any of this up, but I did read a good book called "Womens Infedility" which suggests more women are doing this than ever. I understand it's really a two way street, but I just noticed a lot of men posting on this forum that are going through this. Everday it's a new one.

 

Rooster, maybe you have a point. I guess the divorce stats says it all. But don't forget the men too. It takes two to tango.

[burning 4 revenge]

I opened up a thread over a month ago describing my theory about the whole thing. I really think it all has to do with evolution and pro-creation. By nature, we are like every other living thing, and natures sole purpose is natural selection and survival of the fittest. Maybe that's why we go against the very values we give ourselves, simply because nature is more powerful than our minds.

 

Regards,

Firstly, I think Darwinism is overated (as in Charles, nothing personal Rooster).

 

Secondly, I think it's oversimplified.

 

Survival of the fittest can be defined in many ways. Someone who is physically superior may be intellectually inferior for instance. Or, they may be prone to be reckless with their choices and it could be argued that they have more of a genetic predisposition to irrational behavior.

 

Absolute Darwinism is as useless as absolute anything.

[everlong]

there are absolutes - we are born and we will die

[burning 4 revenge]

there are absolutes - we are born and we will die

yes, death and taxes etc, good point

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

 

Also, I have had a couple of women want to date me recently, and later I find out they are married or have a boyfriend when they initially told me they don't. WTF is going on with this CR**?

 

Sorry, just don't get it.

 

 

When people are told (incorrectly) there is no absolute right or wrong, that it's all just relative and you can invent any morality for yourself and no one can condemn it --- then any behavior is OK.

 

Take cheating. Cheaters often justify their cheating because their SO treated them badly... (whatever bad is is of course defined by the cheating SO so it could be anything like looking at them cross-eyed every other tuesday.) so of course cheaters aren't morally inferior to people that never cheat. So if cheaters and non-cheaters are morally equivalent then of course cheating can not be immoral or even bad... who are we to condemn the cheater?

 

Anyone see the last episode of CSI Vegas? It touched on the issue of relative morality.

 

Or this by the father of a student murdered at Columbine. (underlining is my emphasis)

 

I'm saddened and shaken by the shooting at an Amish school today, and last week’s school murders.

 

When my son Dan was murdered on the sidewalk at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999, I hoped that would be the last school shooting. Since that day, I’ve tried to answer the question, "Why did this happen?"

 

This country is in a moral free-fall. For over two generations, the public school system has taught in a moral vacuum, expelling God from the school and from the government, replacing him with evolution, where the strong kill the weak, without moral consequences and life has no inherent value.

We teach there are no absolutes, no right or wrong. And I assure you the murder of innocent children is always wrong, including by abortion. Abortion has diminished the value of children.

 

Suicide has become an acceptable action and has further emboldened these criminals. And we are seeing an epidemic increase in murder-suicide attacks on our children.

 

Sadly, our schools are not safe. In fact, we now witness that within our schools. Our children have become a target of terrorists from within the United States.

When morality is relative, i.e. anything I say it is and anything you say it is, then nothing is immoral. Nothing can be considered shameful. Everything is allowed. We can kill unborn human beings simply because they are unborn. It is merely a woman's right to choose. Of course it's choosing the life or death of another human being. Oh sure, we can all "justify" it by saying the unborn aren't really human beings. We can justify killing anybody because they aren't human. Old people that have lost their memory. They're not much of a human being anymore. The disabled... only partly human. You can argue all you want about how a woman has to have a right to an abortion because of this or that, but please don't. I don't want to go there.

 

The point is abortion on demand has lowered the value of life over all. Back in the day, before Roe-v-Wade, how many school shooting were there? Heck we even had a rifle team at my high school. Did people cheat back them. Sure they did. But divorce wasn't as prevalent. Were people happier? Maybe some, other maybe not. But over all what was the number of "unhappy" marriages before the whole women's lib movement? Was my mother oppressed? She never thought so. Any of her peers? No. She does think women that have sex before marriage are nuts to let a guy do that.

 

And so what happened? Well women's lib insists that women don't really need men, are oppressed by marriage or men, and that of course in order to be really as liberated as a man women need a right to abortions so they no longer feared pregnancy and could be -- well sluts. They could sleep around just like their male peers. And so they do. It used to be MM had more affairs than MW. But now women are almost at parity. And this is progress? Maybe for horny males. But I hardly think it is for women over all. Disposible children, disposible people, disposible relationships. When men are marginalized as a group, as a class, when we are all Homer Simpsons, the butt of countless jokes, then decent men are devalued as well. Is it any wonder when men are told repeatedly they are worthless that so many men are? And is it any wonder when celbrity women bounce around from man to man and act like whores, Madonna, Britney, Pamela Anderson, <insert list here>, that other women decide they can be just as whorish? Pop culture, Hollywood. Great role models. Maybe Ozzie and Harriet and June Cleaver were idiolized families that never really existed in real life (though my parents family was pretty close), but weren't those better ideals than "Sex in the City"?

 

And so what else has women's lib left us - well women like "Rachels" (see Gunny's thread some pace), a self absorbed woman that insists the men of this world have to meet her "ideal". Women have their rights. Women demand their needs be meet, never mind the impact on anyone else, there family, their kids, society, least of all their man. And of course a lot of guys buy into this initially because it's good for them. They get laid more often by more women. What guy doesn't want a virtual harem?

 

The divorce rate is up. Why? Because life's short and if one isn't happy just junk the relationship and start over. Don't bother working hard to fix it, just get out. Same reason more people cheat. Honor, decency, keeping one's word... those are old fashioned values. No longer needed in this post-modern world. It's all relative - to me. It's all about me. No need to be honest with others. No need to be faithful. If my needs aren't met by my significant other, find another. No moral hang up, no bothersome conscience to deal with because I define what is right and wrong for me.

 

At least that's how I see it from the bunker deep underground at an undisclosed location. (Do you think NARL will be able to buy Nukes from N. Korea?)

 

'naw....the real reason is she was really hot, and i just wanted to bonk someone else'.

Well that impulse which is the result of a million years of evolution is very real in most mammalian males.

 

The Coolidge effect. (google it).

 

The term comes from an old joke according to which President Calvin Coolidge and his wife allegedly visited a farm one day and were taken around on separate tours. Mrs. Coolidge, passing the chicken pens, inquired of a farmer whether the lone rooster was sufficient, given the many hens in the chicken flock.

 

"Yes", the man said, "the rooster works very hard."

 

Mrs. Coolidge then asked, "Really? The rooster works very hard? Every day?"

 

"Oh, yes," the man said. "Dozens of times a day."

 

"Interesting!" Mrs. Coolidge replied, "Be sure to tell that to the President!"

 

Some time later the President, passing the same pens, was told about the roosters - and about his wife's remark. "Same hen every time?", he asked.

 

"Oh, no, a different one each time," the farmer replied.

 

"Tell that," Coolidge said with a sly nod, "to Mrs. Coolidge."

 

 

http://www.heretical.com/wilson/coolidge.html

 

...Although the Coolidge Effect is somewhat diminished in force within primates, and perhaps especially so in humans who have moral compunctions to deal with in addition, vestiges of it are nevertheless apparent. Before marriage it is usual for men to initiate intercourse at a fairly high frequency with their fiancée. After a few years of marriage, however, the husband's sexual appetite begins to wane and an apparent reversal of libido may even occur, with the now frustrated wife demanding more love-making than her 'tired' husband is able to supply. He, of course, is still perfectly capable of being aroused by his mistresses and office girls and, if fortunate enough to secure an invitation to an orgy, would have little difficulty completing intercourse with two or three anonymous young women in the course of the evening's festivities. Sex therapists see many men who are reported as 'impotent' by their wives but who privately confess to considerable prowess with a succession of mistresses. Clearly, this is more of a social problem than a medical condition.

 

(I can't find the link now but there was a web page that discussed the Coolidge effect with regard to female fashion. That ever changing fashion was a way to make a woman appear to be different women to their mates. And doesn't a change of lingerie and other sexy attire pretty much accomplish that trick?)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bateman%27s_principle

 

http://www.amren.com/923issue/923issue.html#article2

 

Sex of the Brain: Why Men and Women are Different

Reviewed by Thomas Jackson

Men are different from women. … To maintain that they are the same in aptitude, skill or behaviour is to build a society based on a biological and scientific lie.

With these brave words begins a remarkable book by two journalists, Anne Moir and David Jessel. Brain Sex is their attempt to get at the biological and scientific truth, no matter how much it may threaten current intellectual fashion. As the authors point out, it has been precisely during the period when liberal feminism has been most shrilly insisting that men and women are largely equivalent that scientific research has produced incontrovertible evidence that they are not.

 

...

In the female brain, some mental functions seem to be scattered around the hemispheres, whereas the male brain is specialized and compartmentalized. The parts of a woman's brain that handle speech and emotion are spread across both halves of the brain, whereas these capacities in a man are tucked into discreet locations. Moreover, the corpus callosum, which connects the right and left brains, is thicker and more highly developed in women. The two halves of their brains communicate better.

 

In practical terms, this means that women are verbally more fluent than men but are less able to separate emotion from reason. (hey, I didn't write it... I'm just the messenger... )

 

At the same time, since they can bring more diverse parts of the brain to bear on a problem, they are better able than men to arrive at apparently non-rational but correct conclusions — "women's intuition" is based in biology.

 

Different brain constructions also produce the few sex differences that have gained public acknowledgment despite a hostile intellectual climate: Men are better at math, have better hand-eye coordination, are better mechanics, and more easily grasp spatial relations.

 

For every mathematically gifted girl there are 13 gifted boys and the best boys are always better than the best girls.Boys, however, are four times more likely to be in remedial reading classes than girls.

 

"The desire for sexual novelty is innate in the male brain."

 

(that's the books authors conclusion anyway. People can continue to ignore these difference between male and female sexualty, brain chemistry and function, emotional response, etc., they can continue with the feminist myth that there are essentially no important difference between men and women other than obvious anatomical differences and thus continue to misunderstand one another. The battle of the sexes goes on... )

[justagirliegirl]

This is the issue indeed.

 

But didn't you dispose of your last husband?

 

yes, my roses have never looked better.

[lindya]

Why does this seem like it's happening everywhere in the U.S.? Not to sound biased, but it seems to be mostly women that don't know what they want. Everyday I see a new post from a guy going through this exact same torture, and I myself just recently had a woman do this to me.

 

On the one hand, people have higher demands - fuelled by media portrayals of how the opposite sex "should" look, sound and behave like. Conversely, though, there's a depressed semi-awareness that these images are unrealistic. Remember Fight Club:

 

We are the middle children of history, raised by television to believe that someday we'll be millionaires and movie stars and rock stars, but we won't.

 

That's presented as a source of despair and anger for men, but it applies equally to women. We're taught, by the media, to want what we can never have and to grow up dreaming of a lifestyle that just isn't realistic for most of us. Now we have the internet giving us outlets to vent all our anger and resentment about not being able to have it.

 

People get the opportunity to vent their spleen on the opposite sex because somehow it's their fault that we failed. They were responsible for letting us down and preventing us from becoming who we wanted to be. "Women emasculate men" "men make women feel sh*t about themselves". These are the messages I keep seeing on Loveshack.

 

Then, when we're not doing busy bitching about how the opposite sex and their requests/demands have ruined the world, we can go onto myspace and look at photoshopped examples of those members who are selling themselves like products. "I have a PHD, my vital statistics are 36D-23-34, I speak 4 languages but hate feminism and am a super-feminine sweetie who loves kids and puppies :love: and enjoys being tied up and sodomised in her spare time. "

 

It all encourages this belief so many people have that the world can be their sexual playground...and so many people are starting to view what they read on the internet as being the norm, that perhaps it is becoming that playground.

 

Exchange a few messages with someone over the net, swap personal details -and whatdoyouknow. You've got a contact in another country who you might be able to have sex with if and when you happen to be in the area. I'm presuming that's what's meant by "networking".

[lindya]

Why does this seem like it's happening everywhere in the U.S.? Not to sound biased, but it seems to be mostly women that don't know what they want. Everyday I see a new post from a guy going through this exact same torture, and I myself just recently had a woman do this to me.

 

On the one hand, people have higher demands - fuelled by media portrayals of how the opposite sex "should" look, sound and behave like. Conversely, though, there's a depressed semi-awareness that these images are unrealistic. Remember Fight Club:

 

We are the middle children of history, raised by television to believe that someday we'll be millionaires and movie stars and rock stars, but we won't.

 

That's presented as a source of despair and anger for men, but it applies equally to women. We're taught, by the media, to want what we can never have and to grow up dreaming of a lifestyle that just isn't realistic for most of us. Now we have the internet giving us outlets to vent all our anger and resentment about not being able to have it.

 

People get the opportunity to vent their spleen on the opposite sex because somehow it's their fault that we failed. They were responsible for letting us down and preventing us from becoming who we wanted to be. "Women emasculate men" "men make women feel sh*t about themselves". These are the messages I keep seeing on Loveshack.

 

Then, when we're not doing busy bitching about how the opposite sex and their requests/demands have ruined the world, we can go onto myspace and look at photoshopped examples of those members who are selling themselves like products. "I have a PHD, my vital statistics are 36D-23-34, I speak 4 languages but still manage to be a super-feminine sweetie who loves kids and puppies :love: and enjoys being tied up and sodomised in her spare time. "

 

It all encourages this belief so many people have that the world can be their sexual playground...and so many people are starting to view what they read on the internet as being the norm, that perhaps it is becoming that playground.

 

Exchange a few messages with someone over the net, swap personal details -and whatdoyouknow. You've got a contact in another country who you might be able to have sex with if and when you happen to be in the area. I'm presuming that's what's meant by "networking".

[justagirliegirl]

Great post Lindya!

 

I do think the media encourages people to be unhappy with what they have so they will buy the expensive whatever that surely will make them happy this time. Some realize that happiness and contentment come from within and enjoying and appreciating what you have. Others never quite seem to figure that out.

 

I look at my parents marriage. They were married to each other for 50 years. They didn't cheat on each other or disrespect each other.

 

They didn't dump for a newer model when one gained a few pounds or got a few wrinkles.

 

I suppose change begins with each of us. Think about the things in your life you are greatful for.

[Rooster_DAR]

Well that impulse which is the result of a million years of evolution is very real in most mammalian males.

 

Exactly! Nice (but long) posts and you have touched on what I was trying to convey as an educated reason for infedelity. Charles Darwin probably had areas that were a little grey and could be debatable, but I believe overall he had an accurate understanding about where life came from, how it evolved, and how humans were a part of that tree.

 

This leads me to believe that infedility may be a natural behaviour with all mammals and animals, including humans. True, we have minds and intelligence like no other living creature, so we should be able to understand morality and be aware of what drives our behaviour. Truly smart and mature people will understand that it's natural to be attraced to other people, but will have the tools and understanding to handle it correctly to maintain a stable commited relationship.

 

Thanks for your responses, and again I am just stating some opinions here, I am not trying to force anyone to belive that I am right or wrong.

 

Regards,

 

(Darwin was right!)

[riobikini]

re:

 

Justagirliegirl: " Lots of people have been raised spoiled and taught to act on every impulse. Plus living in a disposable society where people have become disposable too."

 

Ditto!

 

-Rio

[Guest]

I think women are starting to think more like men. They are more aware of their sexually than ever before. Also with so many women being financially successful they no longer have to "act nice" because their man is paying all their bills. They can do what they want so if they aren't happy with a relationship they move on. Women like men are looking for passion and excitment too. I really think it's going to get worse. Women these days want it all, especially if they can afford it.

[Rooster_DAR]

I think women are starting to think more like men. They are more aware of their sexually than ever before. Also with so many women being financially successful they no longer have to "act nice" because their man is paying all their bills. They can do what they want so if they aren't happy with a relationship they move on. Women like men are looking for passion and excitment too. I really think it's going to get worse. Women these days want it all, especially if they can afford it.

 

Yup, I see it getting worse before it gets better. RioBikini had a good post on a thread talking exactly about this dilemma.

 

Regards,

[Guest]

describing my theory about the whole thing. I really think it all has to do with evolution and pro-creation. By nature, we are like every other living thing, and natures sole purpose is natural selection and survival of the fittest

 

It's not 'your' theory. It is the 'theory' of every horny guy who tries to excuse his lack of faithfulness and loyalty on anything except his own selfishness.

 

And Darwin did not argue for the survival of the fittest PERSON. His theory was about the adaptations of SPECIES, which he himself tried to make clear. Of course, like everything else, it got twisted.