ilmw Posted July 23, 2007 Posted July 23, 2007 Awesome stuff PW... you do sound like you are getting there... keep it up... Your post was so positive... ilmw
Author PWSX3 Posted July 23, 2007 Author Posted July 23, 2007 I hope I handled this correctly but the job isn't finished yet either. Thursday we got off work early so on the way home I suggested to the W that since we were getting off early that I would run down with her & get the stickers for her plates. She said; that sounds like a good idea so we stopped at home & picked up the paperwork we needed. It only took like 5 minutes to pick up the stickers & then when we got home you would think she would put them on her car, but NO she just put them in the pile by the couch with the rest of her paperwork. So today I suggested again that since there is only two more days left in the month & there was still some light outside that maybe she would like to get the stickers put on her car since we probably won't drive it before next month & then she will forget. She said; yes that would be a good idea, & then turned around & went back playing her game on the computer. I went out & talked to my neighbor (female) & asked her what I should have done. She said don't say anything, just go put them on the car. She said it isn't worth getting all worked up over, just do it & don't expect anything for doing it. I guess tomorrow if they haven't been put on her car that is what I'll do, just put them on her car & move on, don't sweat the small stuff!!!!!
OldEurope Posted July 24, 2007 Posted July 24, 2007 P--I love you, I love your story, I love that you have been trying so hard, and I love that you have kept up such an excellent, positive attitude in repairing what was broken. My question now is: Whatever for? I see you giving 1000% percent and that your wife is just stuck in the same habits, burdening you with the mental and often physical responsibility of taking care of every damn aspect of this relationship, it seems. Oh she says the right things, of course, but....her talk is cheaper than lead-poisoned Chinese junk sold at Walmart. I reaaaaaaalllly look forward to the day where you turn to her and say, "Put your own damn license plates on the car! I've had it!" Thinking of ya, OE
sumdude Posted July 24, 2007 Posted July 24, 2007 Hmm... I know that in my past marriage all the car stuff was my responsibility. Had it been discussed as to who is responsible for what? Who does the laundry, cleans the bedroom the bathrooom etc etc..?
a4a Posted July 24, 2007 Posted July 24, 2007 I guess tomorrow if they haven't been put on her car that is what I'll do, just put them on her car & move on, don't sweat the small stuff!!!!! the problem is the small stuff starts to add up to a giant wad of resentment. Ask her Why have you not put your tag stickers on yet? Are you aware that if you don't do it, you will likely get a ticket and that will effect your life and mine. See this is where it pisses me off to see people not give a crap about the person they are with... the ticket money will come out of your account too. This is a totally preventable situation. No excuse for it, and she should be aware that it is causing you stress and do something about it. I look at this as dangling $100 over a bic lighter...... I don't know the fine.... but this is just stupid to put such a thing off..... it was already late... why not move on it? She just put another brick in your bag for you to lug around. Do it. Do it now!
Ladyjane14 Posted July 24, 2007 Posted July 24, 2007 Is this The Quest for Relationship Perfection?... or is it The Path to Resentment? :confused: I'm one of the rare posters here at LS who is genuinely HAPPY within my marriage. My husband tells me he's happy with it too. And we don't do this to each other anymore. We don't bother ourselves with these small ticket items, because when we did that in past, it resulted in built-up resentments which became the FOCUS of our relationship with each other. You can't smell the roses, if all you can perceive is the thorns. People aren't perfect. Your partner isn't perfect... and NEITHER ARE YOU. We all have a glass house to live in. I don't want my mate throwing stones at mine, so... I make sure I don't throw stones at his.
a4a Posted July 24, 2007 Posted July 24, 2007 Is this The Quest for Relationship Perfection?... or is it The Path to Resentment? :confused: I'm one of the rare posters here at LS who is genuinely HAPPY within my marriage. My husband tells me he's happy with it too. And we don't do this to each other anymore. We don't bother ourselves with these small ticket items, because when we did that in past, it resulted in built-up resentments which became the FOCUS of our relationship with each other. You can't smell the roses, if all you can perceive is the thorns. People aren't perfect. Your partner isn't perfect... and NEITHER ARE YOU. We all have a glass house to live in. I don't want my mate throwing stones at mine, so... I make sure I don't throw stones at his. there is a huge difference when you are put in the position of consistantly being the responsible party for both partners and you are force to deal with the consquences of your SO's bad decisions. You cannot ignore it when you grow weary of being the parent to your partner. What is so hard about putting a sticker on a car tag for either party?... Nothing, but when you are the one that has to ask if it is over due.... is late... pay for it.. and then stick it on the car.... BS .... there are no roses to see.... only thorns are being offered in this case. Add this on the 8 others similar things that occur in a weeks time... it is not a matter of seeking perfection or resentment, it becomes a matter of being stressed out and worried 24/7 just like a parent would be with an irresponsible child.
Ladyjane14 Posted July 24, 2007 Posted July 24, 2007 What is so hard about putting a sticker on a car tag for either party?... Nothing, but when you are the one that has to ask if it is over due.... is late... pay for it.. and then stick it on the car.... BS .... there are no roses to see.... only thorns are being offered in this case. Add this on the 8 others similar things that occur in a weeks time... it is not a matter of seeking perfection or resentment, it becomes a matter of being stressed out and worried 24/7 just like a parent would be with an irresponsible child. See... I can't be bothered with stuff like that though. My husband isn't a child. He's a man. He's imperfect. He makes mistakes. But if I spend my time focusing on that, I can't SEE what a great guy he is otherwise. We two have gone 'round and round' about "expectations" in marriage, a4a... and neither one of us ever give an inch on it. But I have to ask you, and you know I'm not being facetious 'cause I really do like you.... ...Which one of us is happy within our marriage? I firmly believe that we find what we're looking for. So, if we look for examples of irresponsible behavior, laziness, or what-have-you. THAT's what we find. But if we instead, look for examples of caring and consideration, unless we're married to a really bad person... we can usually find that too. Hundred dollar bills are just money. Not people. He can wipe his cute little fuzzy butt with them for all I care, just as long as it makes him happy. It's not like the man doesn't go out and earn his living every day.
a4a Posted July 24, 2007 Posted July 24, 2007 See... I can't be bothered with stuff like that though. My husband isn't a child. He's a man. He's imperfect. He makes mistakes. But if I spend my time focusing on that, I can't SEE what a great guy he is otherwise. We two have gone 'round and round' about "expectations" in marriage, a4a... and neither one of us ever give an inch on it. But I have to ask you, and you know I'm not being facetious 'cause I really do like you.... ...Which one of us is happy within our marriage? I firmly believe that we find what we're looking for. So, if we look for examples of irresponsible behavior, laziness, or what-have-you. THAT's what we find. But if we instead, look for examples of caring and consideration, unless we're married to a really bad person... we can usually find that too. Hundred dollar bills are just money. Not people. He can wipe his cute little fuzzy butt with them for all I care, just as long as it makes him happy. It's not like the man doesn't go out and earn his living every day. If you don't live with it on a constant basis you cannot understand it. Not everyone can waste money that is needed for other things on "oops I was going to put the stickers on the plate, but oh well now I will pay the fine instead of the electric bill." And if you are busting your own butt to pay the bills and they flush it down the toilet...... it does matter. It is selfish and inconsiderate for them not to prevent such things from happening when they are WELL AWARE OF THE CONSQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS/ NON ACTIONS. They choose to not care if they hurt you with their actions or non actions. I don't think P has hundred dollar bills to rub on his fuzzy ass.(p has a fuzzy ass? ).... money is a major cause of problems in their M.... She is behind on her bills and yet is willing to dismiss and risk a fine...... that is BS. Oh but on the bright side she kissed his cheek on the way out this morning...... guess that will make up for it when the electricity is shut off because that money was spent on a ticket for expired tags. I guess I shouldn't worry either if my H decides to give me the invoice info and I just don't get them done..... no need to get upset if he doesn't turn them in for payment...... ehhhhh it's only money..... Sorry but I like you too, but there are some things in life that "just seeing the bright side" doesn't make the situation better or even more tolerable. Perhaps the key to happiness is just stickin' your head in the sand and not worrying about consquences or your future.
Author PWSX3 Posted July 25, 2007 Author Posted July 25, 2007 I reaaaaaaalllly look forward to the day where you turn to her and say, "Put your own damn license plates on the car! I've had it!" Thinking of ya, OE I'm sorry this will disappoint you, but I didn't tell her to "put your own damn stickers on your car".... Instead I just asked if I could help her put her stickers on her car? Then she went to get them & couldn't remember where she put them. Looked on the table, in a pile of paper by her couch & finally found them on the floor by the couch. Once she did find them I took a wet cloth & cleaned the area & dried it then she applied the sticker. (Compromise) LJ I love reading your posts & I have learned a lot from you. I'm not trying to find blame, I'm not trying to make the W perfect because I know neither of us are, but like a4a has posted it just gets frustrating when they don't seem to take responsibility for important things & I used the stickers for an example & I use situations with money because I just don't see why forgetting or not doing something should also punish me because of the lack of responsibility on her part..... If you remember when I first joined one of the biggest reasons the W & I separated was because she said I was controlling, so I'm trying to figure out why & do what I can do to keep that from happening & I feel a lot of it is & was because of the lack of her not being responsible. She wouldn't do something then I would get mad because it didn't get done so now I'm trying to figure out what "I" can do to keep from getting mad & without being the control person she said I was. Just like a car, if you don't keep up the maintenance & change the oil, etc. pretty soon that car will stop on you. I think the W looks at it as; if nothing is wrong with the car then why fix it until it is broken & then it will cost you more then it might have in the first place if you took care of it. Just like a4a said; after a while you get tired of always doing everything for the other person. I have gotten a lot better & if it doesn't directly effect me then I just let her do her thing...
ilmw Posted July 25, 2007 Posted July 25, 2007 I'm sorry this will disappoint you, but I didn't tell her to "put your own damn stickers on your car".... Instead I just asked if I could help her put her stickers on her car? Then she went to get them & couldn't remember where she put them. Looked on the table, in a pile of paper by her couch & finally found them on the floor by the couch. Once she did find them I took a wet cloth & cleaned the area & dried it then she applied the sticker. (Compromise) LJ I love reading your posts & I have learned a lot from you. I'm not trying to find blame, I'm not trying to make the W perfect because I know neither of us are, but like a4a has posted it just gets frustrating when they don't seem to take responsibility for important things & I used the stickers for an example & I use situations with money because I just don't see why forgetting or not doing something should also punish me because of the lack of responsibility on her part..... If you remember when I first joined one of the biggest reasons the W & I separated was because she said I was controlling, so I'm trying to figure out why & do what I can do to keep that from happening & I feel a lot of it is & was because of the lack of her not being responsible. She wouldn't do something then I would get mad because it didn't get done so now I'm trying to figure out what "I" can do to keep from getting mad & without being the control person she said I was. Just like a car, if you don't keep up the maintenance & change the oil, etc. pretty soon that car will stop on you. I think the W looks at it as; if nothing is wrong with the car then why fix it until it is broken & then it will cost you more then it might have in the first place if you took care of it. Just like a4a said; after a while you get tired of always doing everything for the other person. I have gotten a lot better & if it doesn't directly effect me then I just let her do her thing... Excellent!... The mister power control you used to be is so... going down the road... and into the sunset! You have transformed into something else/someone else... Some good posts for/against... lj/a4a
a4a Posted July 25, 2007 Posted July 25, 2007 P you are doing an excellent job. I realize you are worried that you may revert back to the old you. Rightly so, you should be worried about that. You do have a right to say something to her when it will effect you. Questions is where do you draw the line with that? Do you tell her because she doesn't take care of herself that you don't have a wife to join you hiking or do other things that you desire having a companion do with you? Do you ask her not to purchase something because bills are coming due? Do you realize that this may never change and are you willing to deal with it for the rest of your life? I think that maybe if you talk to your shrink and have the shrink step in and explain it to your W that her decisions and actions do effect you, your W may get a better understanding of that if it is coming from a third party. ........ Does your W care if she is hurting you? Is she aware of the extent of hurt she is causing you with her lack of responsibility and lack of action?
OldEurope Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 Now maybe this is just me, but I am starting to see where she will do things just in order to get her way. Just like her fish tank, it has cost her a lot of money in setting it up & keeping fish because she is always killing them but by God she is going to have a fish tank just because she knows it is something I didn't want her to have. She just doesn't realize it wasn't the fish tank that I was against but I knew she wouldn't take care of it & it would cost a lot more money once it was set up, which is what it is doing but she doesn't care..... Something else she did that pissed me off was to buy plants for outside. I didn't mind the idea of the flowers but I knew she wouldn't take care of them & yes this week I had to throw away the two pots she had because the flowers are died, but I didn't say a thing when she bought them nor when I put them in the trash....Don't worry about the small ca-ca, pick your battles & this isn't one anymore for me!!! When I'm finished with the book I'm reading I will pick up a book on Passive Aggressive behavior. I am starting to learn/see why I was controlling, but I don't feel like the W is learning why she does the things she does so it will be interesting. Now I have a question; Her plates were due in June for her car. We get a grace month, which is this month. Now she is the one that took the card out of the mail & set it on the computer desk but I she has forgot about it & if I don't say anything then she won't get her plates. Now the old me would like to see her forget about it, then get a ticket because of it but then it costs me money, which will piss me off. If I say something then again I'm controlling & telling her what to do. I feel I'm between the rock & hard place because no matter what happens I'm the one that gets screwed because if I don't say anything she will say it was my fault for not reminding her & if I don't say anything then I will have to pay for the $10.00 late charge plus the ticket if she gets one. No matter how you look at it it is our money so even if she says she will pay for it the money comes out of our checking. I understand we are different but I'm trying to figure out how to live with such a person because they say if I dump this one the chances are I'll just meet another woman like her. Uh...no...you might actually find someone who is compatible with your personality and brings some joy into your life instead of this endless turmoil. As I said a few posts back....I look forward to the day where you tell her once and for all to go and bag it, and that you, Mr. P, go live your life in happiness with another lady... And yes, of course, other people can make us happy, it can so supremely inspire and generate part of the happiness "within" us...Otherwise what, we are obliged to be with those who make us depressed???... This thread and this marriage should really be put out of their misery!
Ladyjane14 Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 LJ I love reading your posts & I have learned a lot from you. I'm not trying to find blame, I'm not trying to make the W perfect because I know neither of us are, but like a4a has posted it just gets frustrating when they don't seem to take responsibility for important things & I used the stickers for an example & I use situations with money because I just don't see why forgetting or not doing something should also punish me because of the lack of responsibility on her part..... If you remember when I first joined one of the biggest reasons the W & I separated was because she said I was controlling, so I'm trying to figure out why & do what I can do to keep that from happening & I feel a lot of it is & was because of the lack of her not being responsible. She wouldn't do something then I would get mad because it didn't get done so now I'm trying to figure out what "I" can do to keep from getting mad & without being the control person she said I was. Just like a car, if you don't keep up the maintenance & change the oil, etc. pretty soon that car will stop on you. I think the W looks at it as; if nothing is wrong with the car then why fix it until it is broken & then it will cost you more then it might have in the first place if you took care of it. Just like a4a said; after a while you get tired of always doing everything for the other person. I have gotten a lot better & if it doesn't directly effect me then I just let her do her thing... I thought about this post quite a bit before responding to it, wondering why these "small ticket items" don't bother me the way they do so many other people. I think maybe it all boils down to anxiety... and more specifically what we worry about. I've been in the position of having uniformed officers come to my door and tell me a loved one is gone. I've experienced what it is to have unfinished business with that person, to have left apologies unspoken. I've known what it is to be in the wrong and to not have the opportunity to make amends. Every time a loved one leaves my presence, I KNOW that I have no guarantee of seeing them whole and well again. And even though I try very hard to feed my Faith in terms of believing in life beyond this, my Faith ends up all too often as being a weak and pitiful thing. This has always been my struggle. Faith asks us to believe in that which cannot be weighed and measured. And here I am... hard-headed. Anyway, I've lived poor. I've done without running water and toilets. I've turned out the seats of the car for enough change to buy dinner for myself and my siblings. And weirdly, my anxiety doesn't usually extend to putting a roof over my head or food on the table. “Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them” But I don't think God has the same sense of tragedy that we do. If you had died, gone beyond, and came back... and you KNEW without a shred of doubt that what was there is better than what is here... I'm thinking you might not be over-worried about it either. So, even though I can grasp the concept, I can't quite make it over the hurdle. I still worry about losing loved ones. This does come with a perk though if I look for the silver lining. And that "perk" is that I am more focused on the relationship I have with all my important people. Not that there aren't a few who I've had to let go because they're toxic to themselves or others around them, but rather that I let them go on MY terms, so that I'm not guilty of wishing them ill. I can wish them peace and healing on their path. If your wife was T-boned in an intersection and didn't come home from work tomorrow, if she had a stroke during the night and didn't wake up in the morning.... what is it that you'd care about, PW? Would you still care about the stickers on her license plate? Or would you care that you'll never feel the touch of her lips on your cheek again in this lifetime? That's the difference between "The Big Picture" and the small one. I have too many OTHER worries to bother with small ticket items. I'm perfectly okay if we're handling the biggies. If it's ME who loses the stickers in a big pile of junk mail, I want my husband to remember that he loves me anyway, imperfect creature that I am. If it's him who gets a speeding ticket and costs us a couple of hundred bucks that weren't in our budget, I want him to KNOW that I'm just glad he came home in one piece despite his error in judgment. You've said you're trying to figure out why you wife thought you were "controlling", but I think if you'll be honest with yourself, you're feeding your energy into things that just don't matter all that much.... certainly not when you compare them to that which is closest to your heart. She's either important to you or she's not, PW. If she is, you focus on the joy of having her with you for whatever time you're alloted. And if she isn't, you wish her peace on her journey.
Missy27 Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 I thought about this post quite a bit before responding to it, wondering why these "small ticket items" don't bother me the way they do so many other people. I think maybe it all boils down to anxiety... and more specifically what we worry about. I've been in the position of having uniformed officers come to my door and tell me a loved one is gone. I've experienced what it is to have unfinished business with that person, to have left apologies unspoken. I've known what it is to be in the wrong and to not have the opportunity to make amends. Every time a loved one leaves my presence, I KNOW that I have no guarantee of seeing them whole and well again. And even though I try very hard to feed my Faith in terms of believing in life beyond this, my Faith ends up all too often as being a weak and pitiful thing. This has always been my struggle. Faith asks us to believe in that which cannot be weighed and measured. And here I am... hard-headed. Anyway, I've lived poor. I've done without running water and toilets. I've turned out the seats of the car for enough change to buy dinner for myself and my siblings. And weirdly, my anxiety doesn't usually extend to putting a roof over my head or food on the table. But I don't think God has the same sense of tragedy that we do. If you had died, gone beyond, and came back... and you KNEW without a shred of doubt that what was there is better than what is here... I'm thinking you might not be over-worried about it either. So, even though I can grasp the concept, I can't quite make it over the hurdle. I still worry about losing loved ones. This does come with a perk though if I look for the silver lining. And that "perk" is that I am more focused on the relationship I have with all my important people. Not that there aren't a few who I've had to let go because they're toxic to themselves or others around them, but rather that I let them go on MY terms, so that I'm not guilty of wishing them ill. I can wish them peace and healing on their path. If your wife was T-boned in an intersection and didn't come home from work tomorrow, if she had a stroke during the night and didn't wake up in the morning.... what is it that you'd care about, PW? Would you still care about the stickers on her license plate? Or would you care that you'll never feel the touch of her lips on your cheek again in this lifetime? That's the difference between "The Big Picture" and the small one. I have too many OTHER worries to bother with small ticket items. I'm perfectly okay if we're handling the biggies. If it's ME who loses the stickers in a big pile of junk mail, I want my husband to remember that he loves me anyway, imperfect creature that I am. If it's him who gets a speeding ticket and costs us a couple of hundred bucks that weren't in our budget, I want him to KNOW that I'm just glad he came home in one piece despite his error in judgment. You've said you're trying to figure out why you wife thought you were "controlling", but I think if you'll be honest with yourself, you're feeding your energy into things that just don't matter all that much.... certainly not when you compare them to that which is closest to your heart. She's either important to you or she's not, PW. If she is, you focus on the joy of having her with you for whatever time you're alloted. And if she isn't, you wish her peace on her journey. WOW LJ ~~~ Sublime, just utterly ~~~ sublime. And you are right. I dont think that there is anybody here on LS or anywhere else for that matter who would have the factual back-up to disagree with you, because what you have just posted is........ Well...... it's the way it is. We all take so much for granted nowadays. Too much. You know, i've studied the dynamics of interpersonal relations, marriage, divorce, infidelity etc with great awareness and I've all too often read articles about relationships which ask you to comply to giving the man the thrill of the chase, not being overly affectionate and not saying the words "I Love you" too much for fear of them not being heart felt ~~~ And you know what ~~~ I tell my SO that I love him EVERY single morning before he gets in his truck and goes to work. I tell him I love him EVERY single night before he falls asleep next to me ~~ You know why ~~ ? Because I am exactly how you are in this respect. I am thankful for every day that I spend with him and for every evening that he walks through the door healthy and happy and all in one piece. Am I saying "I love you" too much ~ ? No. Because at the end of the day if one evening my georgeous partner and soulmate DOESN'T walk through the door and I never see him again, I would much rather the last thing I said to him be "I love you" than any words of frustration or anger or thoughtlessness. P ~ LJ's right. You need to decide whether your W is important enough to you to accept her imperfections as human. YOU need to decide this. Maybe you dont feel as though she has "developed" during your separation, but her time WILL come and you need to decide whether you are the one who's going to be there when she finally reaches the top of her game, or whether the journey is going to take too much time or be too bumpy for you.
sumdude Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 LJ & Missy....awsome.... you're killin' me here.... where are the rest of the women like you? Walking through life now with different eyes I see so many hurting and empty people ... here in a country and society where life is basically easy and we should be happy as pigs in s**t. I know i was one of them for a while, losing my mother and so many other things contributed to that.... now part of me feels a bit empty and I've lost some faith in people. Yet I can see how good it can be ... my X .. well she had a habit of focusing on the problems and making them grow, at least in her mind. Over time her negativity affected me greatly... she couldn' help it or didn'twant to. When you're around someone who is constantly pointing out the problems .. your weaknesses etc.. you can't help but start to both believe them and also want to rebel against them. When was the last time you gave credit or praise? Look at your gardens people ... if all you look at is the weeds you'll never see and enjoy the blooms that abound. If you spend all your time worrying about and pulling the weeds without tending to the blooms you end up with no weeds OR blooms. Try killin' 'em with kindness....
ilmw Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 Hey guys... some simply awesome post happening here.. awesome! Its posts like these that so many can learn from. I was lucky to find posts like this when I first came on LS... and it truly helped me adjust my way of thinking.. and gave me a kick start to start to look into all this relationship stuff. Thank goodness I did. Or... i'd probably really be a mess right now... and keep em coming... I have been here a while now.. but I still learn from you all... and some of this stuff.. is a nice reminder! I don't I will be leaving LS for sometime.. if ever. It has been a life line to sanity... is what has been some of the most stressful... insane times of my life.. Thank you all Sorry PW.. had to do that... I don't think you would mind bud ilmw
Author PWSX3 Posted July 27, 2007 Author Posted July 27, 2007 Thanks LJ & everyone else for giving me something to think about... LJ, I just don't know how you do it, you have to be the most calm person I know, nothing seems to bother you. I guess I just get excited easily when things aren't going how I think they should & that might be the start of my problem. Today on this one radio station I listen to going to work had a couple on there that have been married for 52 years & they said they have the worlds record for being the opposites on everything. She would say one thing she liked & he liked the opposite. I didn't hear there names & I can't find it on the radio stations web site but I sure would like to get there book. They were saying it is surprising that marriages even work at all because we are so different..I wish I could have listened to the rest of the show, but I had to go to work. I guess I still worry about me to much, Things are still about me as OldEurope pointed out in her post with the highlights from what I had posted earlier, I still use a lot of "I/me" statements. Today my best friend called to let me know his mom passed away yesterday (battling cancer for 8 months) & LJ you are right, we never know when someone we care a lot for will not be with us anymore & if we do love them we need to enjoy the good in them. Missy, thanks for your input as well, maybe it will just take some time. When me & the W are clicking we have a great time, I guess right now we have so much going on that we forget to do things that we enjoy & have fun at. I know a marriage takes work, but I just wish it would be a little smoother then it has been. Maybe I'm just working at it to hard & I need to just set back & relax. Ilmw, Don't mind one bit!!! a4a, I guess if we don't like how something is getting done then we just need to do it ourselves. :laugh:
OldEurope Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 Sorry, I am going to be the scrooge here, if I may. LJ and Missy are of course supremely correct in saying that one must always, always, always keep the Big Picture in mind with regard to navigating human relationships and to one's desire to craft life in accordance with one's deepest values. That, I do not believe, is in question. Many of us, including myself, have suffered sudden and, in my particular case, extreme, loss. But, in my case, that reawoke something else in my mind: That life is not to be wasted with dead-end, unfulfilling, soul-exhausting, time-losing entanglements which bring nothing but one's own life to a frustrated stand-still. Stand back and look at P's thread. Look how he over and over and over and over again keeps trying and trying and trying to "make" his marriage "work", without, as far as I can tell, much mutual effort from his wife's side. He is on this site all the time, looking for answers which he already knows. Its becoming a tail-chasing mania. P, in response to my last posting, thought that I was highlighting certain phrases of his that focused on "I/me" as if I were criticizing his self interest. No, in fact, I was defending that interest. I was trying to point out how many exhaustive attempts he is making to communicate his feelings to his wife and it is causing him massive frustration. Frustration which I do not believe he needs to, or should, put up with. Not for this long. Now, the LJ and Missy posts focused on the circumstances of Loss. This does not mean we stop living and put our own needs on hold because of the remote chance of some devastating turn of events. And even then, one should not be held hostage to a guilt complex. And that complex, by the way, would not necessarily be proof of someone's undying love, but of natural human empathy and remorse. A strong difference. Of course he would be devastated if his wife were in a terrible accident. However, we cannot chart life on a series of What-Ifs. We cannot not take action for fear that someone else might end up, to take LJs example, in a "T Bone" accident somewhere. I mean, it is just all so absurd. Life is for the living, and I dislike the idea prevalent on this thread that to be "self interested" is somehow evil. What is really so wrong with wanting to craft one's life according to one's own standards and talent and values? Look at all the "self-sacrifice" that P is giving and what is he getting in return? There is much sympathy here for the wife and her "human error" but my God, it is a rather arrogant, unreflective series of these "errors" that she keeps committing! I see no real attempt here on the wife's end to give P a moment's mental rest and I think his emotional life is just going to dry up like the proverbial raisin in the sun.
a4a Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 a4a, I guess if we don't like how something is getting done then we just need to do it ourselves. :laugh: Well you need balance..... It is not a matter of how it is done for me, it is a matter of it getting done at all..... I don't care how things are done- I just want you to do what you said you will do and what you know needs to be done. ******************************************************** So if you caught your wife having group sex do you just think... "ehhh... I will let this go because I need to cherish the moments I have with her while she is still alive?" No. You have your own boundaries that you set for you. Nobody can set these for you. If you hated your job and someone told you to just stick with it and make the best out of it for the rest of your life....... would you? Do I throw a fit if there is a dish in the sink?..... no. The negative consquences of the dish in the sink really don't exist. But if it is something important that does have dire consquences and is a repeated behavior (irresponsible actions with money) I will attempt to correct the situation and allow myself to show my dissatisfaction about the situation. Being poetic about life is fine and dandy..... but when you end up flat broke because of your spouses irresponsible ways trying to find the bright side becomes a tad bit more difficult. Now last night I found my H paying the bills all on his own. Asked me for passwords! I was shocked and quite pleased by this action. I am sure he was quite pleased with himself as well. He has learned he gets the reaction he deserves from me. LJ I agree with you that you do need to appreciate what you have in this life. But I cannot agree that you should ignore every "error" made by a person in your life simply because you need to only focus on the fact that they may be snatched away from you at any moment. P maybe creating a list of things that you find important and expressing that to your W may help. (expressing it in a positive way of course)
sumdude Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 Well you need balance..... It is not a matter of how it is done for me, it is a matter of it getting done at all..... I don't care how things are done- I just want you to do what you said you will do and what you know needs to be done. ******************************************************** So if you caught your wife having group sex do you just think... "ehhh... I will let this go because I need to cherish the moments I have with her while she is still alive?" No. You have your own boundaries that you set for you. Nobody can set these for you. If you hated your job and someone told you to just stick with it and make the best out of it for the rest of your life....... would you? Do I throw a fit if there is a dish in the sink?..... no. The negative consquences of the dish in the sink really don't exist. But if it is something important that does have dire consquences and is a repeated behavior (irresponsible actions with money) I will attempt to correct the situation and allow myself to show my dissatisfaction about the situation. Being poetic about life is fine and dandy..... but when you end up flat broke because of your spouses irresponsible ways trying to find the bright side becomes a tad bit more difficult. Now last night I found my H paying the bills all on his own. Asked me for passwords! I was shocked and quite pleased by this action. I am sure he was quite pleased with himself as well. He has learned he gets the reaction he deserves from me. LJ I agree with you that you do need to appreciate what you have in this life. But I cannot agree that you should ignore every "error" made by a person in your life simply because you need to only focus on the fact that they may be snatched away from you at any moment. P maybe creating a list of things that you find important and expressing that to your W may help. (expressing it in a positive way of course) Balance is the key, to continue my little allegory... ya hafta pull the weeds sometimes and fertilize the blooms others.
Ladyjane14 Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 I know a marriage takes work, but I just wish it would be a little smoother then it has been. Maybe I'm just working at it to hard & I need to just set back & relax. When you've developed a "new way to do business" it becomes habit after awhile, so the good news is that it won't always feel like such hard work. It doesn't happen overnight though, and during the interim there's this feeling like complacency is all around you, like one small misstep might carry you back to the bad place you were in before. This was a HUGE hurdle for me. I was soooooo worried that we'd end up right where we'd been... in "The Bad Place". It felt like I was expecting monsters to jump out at me around every corner there for awhile. But... while it's important, I think, to be on your guard against "complacency", it's equally important to relax and enjoy what you've found. You've worked steadily toward reconciliation ever since your first post, PW. And even though, if memory serves, we've talked about the sense of uncertainty that comes along with reconciliation... it's still necessary that you keep moving toward your selected goal. IOW, if marriage recovery is still what you want, you can't let these little emotional snags interfere with getting there. There IS a certain amount of "Buyer's Remorse" after you've selected and committed yourself to Reconciliation. You've seen a different path laid out before your feet, and more so than I ever did. In my situation, this path was just a glimpse, but it represented a freedom to come and go and do as I pleased without another person's input. It was tantalizing. But "freedom isn't free", right? We pay for it. We pay for it in blood when it comes to building nations. We pay for it in loss when it comes to personal relationships. Because to open one door is to close another. To open 'the freedom door' closes the door on your current marriage and partnership, and vice versa. THIS is where we get into trouble in recovery. We've closed 'the freedom door' and embraced marital recovery, which requires partnership rather than absolute autonomy. When our partner pisses us off, (and occasionally they do ), we feel the loss of that which was behind "the freedom door" keenly. We doubt our decision. We fear that complacency will set in again, and in so doing prove that our sacrifice was all for nothing. Reconciliation isn't a cake-walk, PW. It's a process that's steeped in self-doubt. One in which you're dependent on someone other than just yourself, and where you're required to re-learn trust and acceptance of another person. In reconciliation, all you've learned is no longer just 'theory'... it becomes daily practice, and it's sometimes difficult to stay focused. There are days when you're successful in every little thing, and days when you're not. And while it's true that "the work" never ends, just as it's true in every other relationship, it does get easier as your new habits become well ingrained. Of course, that doesn't mean your 'stinking-thinker' isn't occasionally going to rise up and bite you in the ass. Hey, on days when I'm irritated enough mine still does, telling me I'm stupid for not taking the "out" when I had the chance. But once you've embraced the idea that 'you are where you've chosen to be', you're so much better equipped to deal with it. Re-learning trust isn't singularly about trusting your partner... it's also about trusting yourself. If you've closed one door and opened another, you've got to trust your choice, embrace it, honor it, and support it through positive action. It's all about attitude, priorities, and supporting your choices, PW. Missy knows it. So does Sumdude. Once you've made a solid decision about what's important to you... you'll know it too. (You're going to make some woman knee-slappin' happy one day, btw SD. You've learned soooooo much more than most guys ever dreamed of about what's needed in romantic relationships, just like ILMW. )
Ladyjane14 Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 So if you caught your wife having group sex do you just think... "ehhh... I will let this go because I need to cherish the moments I have with her while she is still alive?" C'mon a4a. As well as you can know an anonymous internet poster... you know me better than that. I told a girl just this week, who's idiot husband is telling her the exact example you've used she should, "grab her dogs, cats, and goldfish, and BEAT FEET." I cannot agree that you should ignore every "error" made by a person in your life simply because you need to only focus on the fact that they may be snatched away from you at any moment. I'm not suggesting that he "ignore" that which really bothers him. In fact, I've been a frequent poster on the hidden dangers of conflict avoidance. I'm just suggesting that he pick his battles. Stand back and look at P's thread. Look how he over and over and over and over again keeps trying and trying and trying to "make" his marriage "work", without, as far as I can tell, much mutual effort from his wife's side. I might be mistaken, but what I take away from P's thread is that he's been working toward reconciliation from the beginning. Mrs. P isn't here and we don't know her mind, heart, or level of efforting. If she was here though, I'd be asking her the same questions and making the same comments. It would be all about what she is doing in the way of positive action, what she brings to the table. We can't make choices FOR other people. So it does no good to make that our focus. What others choose to do is just data. It's only good for input in making our own decisions.
Author PWSX3 Posted July 30, 2007 Author Posted July 30, 2007 Last night when we went to bed I told the W thank you. I felt that yesterday was a very good day for us, we just clicked together & she agreed. She slept in for a while, but not half the day like she usually does on a Sunday, & when she got up she suggested making pancakes for us for breakfast. Then she helped our son reconcile his checkbook, we made a grocery list "together" then went shopping "together". We do the shopping every Sunday but yesterday it felt more like we were on the same page, kind of hard to explain. When we got home I made lunch & then we both cleaned up the kitchen without anything being said about it. I had cleaned the house on Saturday & she just said; we needed to get it looking nice again like it was. Then we straightened up the house a little "together" & it just felt like we were doing things together instead of just one doing something, then the other one feels bad because they aren't helping out so they do something. Then later in the evening she wanted to drive down & pick up a paper so I volunteered to just walk down & pick it up for her, it is only like a quarter of a mile maybe, so I went & got one for her. I invited her to walk with me but she didn't want to do that. Most of what we did was work related but we did it together & I feel that is something that has been missing. Now today we both took off work to go to my best friends mom's funeral so after the funeral we have some errands to do such as go to the bank, renew the plates on the car, things we can't usually do during the week. I also ordered a book from Amazon & the W told me when I was finished reading; Happiness is an inside job that she would like to read that one & she wanted to check out the book I ordered when I get it. She asked me if we were going to do anything before our son goes back to school in a few weeks? Last year we did something as a family & she wanted to do something again this year. Labor Day last year me & the boy went over to the western slope & checked out a cave & spent the evening with cousins & she thought that sounded like fun so I emailed them & we are going to do that again on Saturday, then Sunday the W will take me & the boy 13 miles out of town & we will ride bicycles back to town on the bike path that goes along the river. This is a very popular stretch (it is in the canyon) & it is something we haven't done before. She will meet us half way at another rest area for snacks & maybe lunch depending on what time it is, then we will ride the rest of the way into town & do a little shopping for her. I suggested that we rent a tandem bike so she could ride with us, but she didn't want to do that even though most of the trail is downhill. I didn't let that stop us from doing it, instead I figured out a way that she could be involved in other ways so that is why she driving us out to the starting point instead of taking the shuttle (plus it saves us a little money) & she will meet us at the other rest area. She can read a book or just look around while she is waiting for us (which won't be long ) & she thought that was a good plan, I didn't tell her I was wanting her to be with us even though she wasn't riding the bike. Should be a good time & with staying with the cousins it helps keep the cost down so we can afford it, plus we haven't seen them since last year.
a4a Posted July 30, 2007 Posted July 30, 2007 P this might be a good time to have her plan a day.... puts here in the position of control and responsibility for decisions. You will just have to go with it...... like it or not..... just go with it.
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