Flyin in Clouds Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 "I will never understand how women can deny thier husbands sex and then expect them to be faithful." there are a few quotes in here about 'owing sex' or how when sex becomes a problem that it somehow is a justification to cheat. how in the world does that make any sense? what kind of 'reasoning' is that? Let me take a wild guess, you are a woman. If a man decides to never talk to his wife, is that grounds for her cheating? What kind of reasoning is that? not to sound harsh but how shallow do u have to be, how selfish must one be to actually state that a lack of sex in a relationship is a deteminate factor that justifies infedility? weird man.I didn't get married to be "just friends". What do you think "one flesh, joined together" means? is everyone / everything simply an 'object' to be used?How is wanting an adult relationship that includes intimacy - that's a code word for SEX - using someone as an "object"? The attitude that a desire for sex is using someone as an object leads to a whole lot of problems in relationship.
Flyin in Clouds Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 I am trying not to put her on the defensive. And if that doesn't work? Sex is the primary emotional need of most men. Notice I didn't say physical- I said emotional. Spot on, Mz. P...
everlong Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 ok..i am sure you and her are like most couples, great sex and love making....then change right...three things, suddenly she is not engaged in this at all, is making distractions like the door, the window, etc. betcha she didn't do that before... sounds like she is getting some hot kinky wild sex elsewhere...[she is having an affair] and that is making her unable to be intimate with you...because that would really screw her up bad...and because of the affair she is probably subconcoiusly making her mind and body rebel and push away from your touch - by having the affair she has alkready convinced herself that she is not 'in love' with u...that's is the #1 reason some women give - it is a justifiction in their mind to cheat...and u know what...as soon as they cheat...that trick becomes reality...so the 'mind' has already beenturned off...next stage in the game is to convince the body to do the same...eventually she'll say she either feels nothing, that when you touch fer it doesn't feel right,,itrs all part of the guilt from the affair..and she's already made the decision, erase memories because of hot sex...sorry bud ,.,,gamnes over
Guest Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Is that all you guys here think about is sex? There is more to life then your sex life. I don't want to be a buzz kill here but when your married and get older, that sex life goes away or at least decreases. Yeah it does sound like something is bugging this women but come on get over it, your not exactly 20 anymore. The thing that gets me is that people on here are willing to cheat just to get sex because their wife, girlfriend, etc... cut them off. I can't even begin to tell you how half a$$ lame that truly is and how they have no business being in a relationship at all. IMO and many others as well, if you get into a relationship and base it on sex or want it to be a big part of your life, your in for a rude awakening. I will agree that some men use sex as a emotional need but mostly its just the physical need. You don't see men looking to screw women and basing that as a emotional need. Please. They have one thing on their mind and its not whether or not they can become emotional or not.
Ripples Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Perhaps the first step in the process is to have some physical interaction with no expectation of sex. I have heard some of my female friends talk about resenting what they perceived as their husband's expectation of sex as the result of all touching. Oh, I was thinking exactly the same thing. It's really great to know that not all physical affection has to lead to sex. I hope you work things out SG
JamesM Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 The reasoning is that when you marry someone you pledge not to have sex with anyone else- only them. Then, that person denys you that part of themselves for a bunch of selfish reasons. So, here you are married- you are not allowed to have sex with anyone else but your spouse- in this case the wife- will not even take five minutes to give him any type of release when it's been ages since she has?? Come on, what about this scene is right in your mind?? Because by golly, he's stuck with her- he can't have sex with anyone else- but yet she won't give him what he most needs. Sex is the primary emotional need of most men. Notice I didn't say physical- I said emotional. Of course when he's 77 he may not be interested in sex as much- and life changes when you are that age. It may be more about companionship at that stage. And that's fine. But right now, it's about his number one need not being met. Ms. Pixie, I am in love with you! (And yes, I know you are not my wife..she would never have written such profound words, because she doesn't understand this concept, but I can dream). Why could I never say it so well? And it is even better hearing a woman say it because she truly understands. Everlong, if you are a woman...which I am guessing is the case..please reread. I have personally been down the road of no sex, and it is all about rejection. And since I seem to be going down that road again, trust me, it hurts. To quote DSD.. I think you really need to explore how that miscarriage has affected your wife. Obviously you stopped having sex shortly afterwards and it appears it has never returned. She probably has serious unresolved issues with the miscarriage and sex may bring those issues to the surface somehow. I am also guessing that there may be truth here. A miscarriage can afect people different ways. Me...personally, our two did not. For my wife, I cannot say. She was down for awhile after each, but then we had a child shortly after each one. And both miscarriages were in the early part of pregnancy. Personally, if she had no children after either one, I am certain her reaction would have been worse. I slightly disagree that a 12 week miscarriage is the same as a year old baby. This definitely depends on each individual, but in my experiences, the women who lost a stillborn have really had alot tougher time. A few years ago, we knew of three pregnancies that ended in miscarriages at different stages. THIS affected my wife as much as losing her own...it was a reliving of her own, I believe. How you treated her after the miscarriage may have had an impact on your sex life. The miscarriage may also be in her mind every time you have sex. Maybe she is still concerned that a new pregnancy could lead to a miscarriage again....even if you use condoms because...what if the condom breaks? These are just guesses. The affair idea. Let's not rule that out. I am inclined to trust your judgment since you are there and I am not, but the partner seems to always be the last one to figure it out. What is she like at work? Does she work with a number of men? Does she go out to lunch with any? BTW, it is the ones she doesn't mention that may be of more concern. In the past, I know my wife has been a bit of a flirt, but I also know that SHE told me, so does that mean she never had an affair? Who knows? I know she loved the attention. I also know that an affair would probably affect her so that sex would be a problem...and yes, I suspect so in my case sometimes. But I digress....an affair that is over will be harder to prove especially if it was a few years in the past. An affair that is happening is something you can look into. Key loggers, check cell phones, and mentally have an idea where she is at always. Also, call her cell occasionally at unexpected times. My guess is that a past affair may have been connected to the miscarriage. Medical problem. Please do not rule this out. As I have said many times, I would never have guessed that this could have made such an impact. It could be hormone related, thyroid related, or some other illness/condition that can cause such a reduction in libido. If your relationship is great despite sex, this is a good option. (As opposed to your relationship being not only no sex but also no interest in each other....not good friends, not wanting to spend time together, etc.). Emotional problem. This could be tied back to the miscarriage, but depression can really do a number to someone. Even though you are the only one who sees it because everyone else sees a front, she can be depressed either related to the miscarriage or related to past history or simply a chemical imbalance. This is hard to figure out. The key to figuring out the problem...is not giving up. I truly know that you don't think you care sometimes or maybe even all of the time, but still try. Until you have exhausted all means, the solution may be right in front of you. It was for me. Now in my case, I think there is a new problem, but my dilemma now is that I do not have the love/care/concern I had a year ago. I am totally understanding you...I NEED to get myself motivated again. Even though our sex life diminished a couple of months ago, I feel as if I have turned back the clock again. So, it comes down to...an affair, reaction to miscarriage, emotional condition/illness, physicall condition/illness....or something else. We are on your side.
Author stoopid_guy Posted October 17, 2006 Author Posted October 17, 2006 I don't think her having an affair is likely at all. She gets home around 4:00 PM most days, our daughter's home about the same time, and we generally do stuff together on weekends. She does occasionally go out with friends, as do I, but that's probably once or twice a month. Is it possible? Anything's possible, but not likely enough for me to consider. We talked about the miscarriage a lot after it happened, but there could still be unresolved issues. I know it really hurt her, and I know it was much more "real" for her than it was for me. After the miscarriage, I knew she was depressed and stopped trying to initiate sex with her for a period, but didn't stop touching, hugging, or other shows of affection for quite a while. I probably started trying to initiate making love a couple of months after. A year or two after, my frustration and dissapointment built to the point where I didn't think she cared for me, and at that point I did dramatically reduce shows of physical affection. I went numb, I gave up, but am trying to rekindle things now so have started back. Touching without the expectation of sex? Sure, hugs, quick kisses, arm around her when watching TV, holding hands, some back rubs. I don't think women realize though that being very close for any length of time leads to things "popping up." For examle, if we're in bed and my wife's facing away from me and asks me to massage her shoulders or scalp, no problem. If she's facing me and I'm putting my arm around her to rub her back, she's close enough for me to feel her breath, the rubbing is pulling us toward each other, and I'm going to get turned on. This is especially true when she wants me to reach under her shirt to do it. There's just no way not to (maybe if I masturbated before she came to bed?) Sometimes she asks me to rub her legs. She has beautiful legs, and I'm definately a "leg man," stroking her legs turns me on. I've learned not to expect sex, but that doesn't keep me from getting turned on in some cases, even if she's not returning the attention. How could knowing your SO finds you sexy be a bad thing? She'd probably be happier if I was impotent. Last night, I told her the most painful part was feeling that I wasn't even worth an hour of her time once in a while, and she said I was just going through a mid-life crisis.
Mz. Pixie Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Ms. Pixie, I am in love with you! (And yes, I know you are not my wife..she would never have written such profound words, because she doesn't understand this concept, but I can dream). Why could I never say it so well? And it is even better hearing a woman say it because she truly understands. Everlong, if you are a woman...which I am guessing is the case..please reread. I have personally been down the road of no sex, and it is all about rejection. And since I seem to be going down that road again, trust me, it hurts. Well, I wasn't born this way! I got this knowledge by reading and studying and by listening to my husbands thoughts about sex during his previous marriage. My heart was so tender towards this man and hearing him describe how rejected he would feel when his wife would turn him down for sex, or didn't initate sex well I could feel the hurt in his statements. I listened to the things that he said- with my head and my heart. I also had a bit of a sexual awakening in my thirties- and of course met a man who was willing to please me sexually every time. Heck, during my first marriage I didn't get it. But I decided that I wanted to get it this time around and make things all that they could be. Both partners should try to meet the other's needs. For the most part it sounds like most of the guys who visit this forum and complain about the lack of intimacy ARE trying to be the best husbands that they can be. My statements are not for the guy who ignores his wife and his family and who doesn't treat his wife as she should be treated. That means, yeah, sometimes even when you don't feel like it, you enthusiastically make love to your husband before bed- just out of love for him. Not in a "get it over as soon as you can" type of way because no man wants that. Rather than zoning out in front of the tube. What better way to relax than an orgasm?? Plus, I want my man to know that there is not one woman out there who can knock his socks off any better than what he has at home. Women need to wrap their heads around the fact that they are making their husbands vulnerable to affairs when they are not having sex with them. Now, we an argue until the cows come home about whether this is right or wrong- but it just "is". It's a fact whether or not one wants to accept it. You can take a good, honest, decent, ethical man and he will lose everything he has over a woman who wants him sexually when his wife doesn't. I've seen it happen countless times even in churches I've attended. When your man doesn't get it right we need to let him know as respectfully as possible what is is we need without expecting him to be a mind reader. But when he is getting it then we need to respond accordingly. It's not fair to hold the keys to sexual fufillment for your husband and not give yourself to him. I'm not saying have sex with him when you're angry or when he's been a pig so everyone who wants to get defensive about this topic just chill. As I said before this is for the guys who ARE doing what they should do in their marriage and still their wives will not make love with them. I could do a few paragraphs about how men need to meet their wives emotional needs as well but since this topic is about men and their sexual needs I'll leave it at that.
tanbark813 Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 I'm starting to notice a trend in all these "I'm not getting any sex" threads. The person going without is almost always way too nice. Stoopid_guy, you're no exception to this trend. You need to stop giving her all the back rubs, leg rubs, etc... until she's willing to return the favor the way you want her to. If she asks for a back rub, just tell her the neighbors might see and you're too tired.
Mz. Pixie Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Last night, I told her the most painful part was feeling that I wasn't even worth an hour of her time once in a while, and she said I was just going through a mid-life crisis. :rolleyes: Ask her if she knows what usually happens when a man has a mid life crisis!!!! Seriously, SG you're not getting tough enough with her. It's time to let her know that it's a deal breaker and you will not continue to live like that!
tanbark813 Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Women need to wrap their heads around the fact that they are making their husbands vulnerable to affairs when they are not having sex with them. Now, we an argue until the cows come home about whether this is right or wrong- but it just "is". It's a fact whether or not one wants to accept it. You can take a good, honest, decent, ethical man and he will lose everything he has over a woman who wants him sexually when his wife doesn't. I've seen it happen countless times even in churches I've attended. Exactly! Constantly rejecting your partner and expecting them to remain faithful is just plain naive.
Ripples Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Touching without the expectation of sex? Sure, hugs, quick kisses, arm around her when watching TV, holding hands, some back rubs. I don't think women realize though that being very close for any length of time leads to things "popping up." For examle, if we're in bed and my wife's facing away from me and asks me to massage her shoulders or scalp, no problem. If she's facing me and I'm putting my arm around her to rub her back, she's close enough for me to feel her breath, the rubbing is pulling us toward each other, and I'm going to get turned on. This is especially true when she wants me to reach under her shirt to do it. There's just no way not to (maybe if I masturbated before she came to bed?) Sometimes she asks me to rub her legs. She has beautiful legs, and I'm definately a "leg man," stroking her legs turns me on. I've learned not to expect sex, but that doesn't keep me from getting turned on in some cases, even if she's not returning the attention. How could knowing your SO finds you sexy be a bad thing? She'd probably be happier if I was impotent.Ok, I'm sorry, I just thought it may be an avenue you hadn't explored. I suppose I feel I'm only worth sex to my partner if everytime he touches me he wants it. I shouldn't have transferred. Last night, I told her the most painful part was feeling that I wasn't even worth an hour of her time once in a while, and she said I was just going through a mid-life crisis.
Mz. Pixie Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 I suppose I feel I'm only worth sex to my partner if everytime he touches me he wants it. I shouldn't have transferred. I've been there Ripples and it's not a good place to be. No kisses except when he wanted to have intercourse. No touching except for then. I don't think that many men who visit this board are doing that overall. But of course that's my opinion.
Author stoopid_guy Posted October 17, 2006 Author Posted October 17, 2006 If she asks for a back rub, just tell her the neighbors might see and you're too tired. Great advice!!! I am very tempted to just avoid physical contact for a while. Worst-case scerario: No change... Ask her if she knows what usually happens when a man has a mid life crisis!!!! They buy a sports car? I suppose I feel I'm only worth sex to my partner if everytime he touches me he wants it.See, a man wouldn't consider that a problem. Now, if the only time she touches him, she wants him to move the couch? We might resent that a little.
Pink_Tulip Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 I think your instincts are spot on. To talk about something as sensitive as this effectively, you need a safe, trusting atmosphere between you. Any hints that you're thinking of finding someone else to sleep with will just sabotage that, create arguments and inhibit useful discussion. If she's avoiding sex because, for instance, she feels stressed and/or unattractive, then the prospect of you looking for someone else to have sex with really isn't going to create the best forum for open discussion. I think this gets thrown out there a lot and it is causing a lot of confusion, as SG and I have vastly different ideas on how to handle it. There is a HUGE differnce in saying: Honey, we haven't had sex in a long time, and I have been so frustrated I have even thought about cheating. And: Honey, I miss the intimacy in our marriage so much that I constantly feel lonely, rejected, and unimportant. These feelings make me wonder if you really love me, if we were meant to be together, and what it might be like to be with someone who honestly WANTS me. You can be rude and crass, and it will get you nowhere. But by denying the truth, you are not giving her ALL of the information. There are a few women on this board who understand men and sex. How do you think we got this knowledge? Genetics? We had to LEARN it. I think Ms Pixie gave a great explanation of how she learned it. Your wife hasn't learned yet, and you are refusing to teach her, then blaming her for not knowing the information. I am telling you, this will NOT get better until she understands.
Flyin in Clouds Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 I agree, how you communicate is as important as what you communicate. and it is a communication problem. You can start off with the soft approach, but I'm thinking your wife won't wake up and really listen until you (figuratively) hit her over the head with a 2x4. Some women are just totally dense when it comes to this issue. So sooner or latter I thinking you have to bring up the A word. "Honey, you know what most men having mid-life crisis do? " If her answer is "Buy a sports car" she's clueless. "honey, do you care if I have an affair?" If she says no, she doesn't mind, well... that tells you something. (Is she serious or testing your loyality?) If she says "hell, yes I mind if you have an affair. What are you talking about?" ... Sooner or later you have to let her know the depth of your feelings abour your relationship and that she's taking you for granted. Good luck and keep trying to talk to her and getting her to see how much the whole thing hurts you. Does she care she's hurting you? At the same time you have to open up the dialog to include what you may have done to make her feel less loved. "Honey, have I done things that make you feel less loved and less interested in sex? Is there something about our love making that I could change to bring you more pleasure? Cause I do want to please you as much as myself. I want us to fully enjoy each other. " Do you in fact want to have sex with your wife in order to give her fantastic orgasms?
Author stoopid_guy Posted October 18, 2006 Author Posted October 18, 2006 You can be rude and crass, and it will get you nowhere. But by denying the truth, you are not giving her ALL of the information. There are a few women on this board who understand men and sex. How do you think we got this knowledge? Genetics? We had to LEARN it. I think Ms Pixie gave a great explanation of how she learned it. Your wife hasn't learned yet, and you are refusing to teach her, then blaming her for not knowing the information. I am telling you, this will NOT get better until she understands.If the only reason my wife wants to make love to me is so I won't leave or cheat, I don't want her to do it at all. Making me and/or herself feel good (needed, wanted, special, important, etc.) and having fun are valid reasons, keeping me around is not. If that's the only reason she does it, I'm better off without her. That's my choice. If it means divorce, I assume full responsibility for it. I also don't want her to worry about that. At one point, she said she was afraid I'd leave her for a 20-something-year-old if we didn't start making love again. The evil little voice in the back of my head was thinking "Nah, she's 36" but instead I told her I loved her and not to worry about it. (I expect to get slammed for that...) Do you in fact want to have sex with your wife in order to give her fantastic orgasms?Hell yes! Just like we used to... I have to admit though, the whole situation makes me wonder at times if she was faking enjoying it all along, and now that she has a family she just doesn't need to any more.
Guest Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 I'm starting to notice a trend in all these "I'm not getting any sex" threads. The person going without is almost always way too nice. Stoopid_guy, you're no exception to this trend. TOTALLY! Well spoken. I am in that "nice guy getting not enough" situation right now. I'm going back and re-reading a bunch of posts from tanbark813, and flyin in clouds, because they have very good, sensical advice from the not necessarily nice guy point of view. It's good reading. In my case, I haven't given her the opportunity to "step up" yet by having talks. Stoopid guy, I don't think I would have held out like you. You are being waaay to nice (even from my perspective) with a woman who is not being a fair spouse. I'm not saying she OWES it to you (despite it feeling that way), but she certainly made a commitment to a relationship, and she is not fufilling her end of the relationship, period.
Guest Posted October 18, 2006 Posted October 18, 2006 ...you have to open up the dialog to include what you may have done to make her feel less loved. "Honey, have I done things that make you feel less loved and less interested in sex? Is there something about our love making that I could change to bring you more pleasure? Cause I do want to please you as much as myself. I want us to fully enjoy each other. " QUOTE] Great quote. Good stuff. This is one of those comments I am copying and pasting so I can use it when my wife and I have these discussions.
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