Looking for some advise from OW

[Tulie]

This problem of mine is fairly unique and I really don't know who to ask for some help, I thought maybe as a group you might be the best place.

 

Let me start by saying this is the result of an open marriage, no one has cheated on anyone, not in my opinion anyway. I have no bad feelings at all about the woman involved and niether has my husband.

 

As I said we have an open marriage, we have for 9 years and it has been very good. Now, some people read that and think all we do is climb around in bed with other people and that is NOT the case. Other people very very occaisionally come into our lives who interest us and we interest them and occaisionally we pursue a limited relationship with them for a short time. Not a one night stand, not a year long affair. Generally they last a month or 2 and eventually the other person becomes involved with someone single and we say our goodbyes..no feelings hurt. We are always upfront and direct about our intentions and have never promised anything but a good friendship with benefits for a short time.

 

Never a problem, not once, not with them, not between us. Until now.

 

He has a friend. The first thing that makes it odd is that I don't know her at all really. We usually at least meet and get to know each other. I find it handy for them to see us together so they know a lot of things. They know they they are not being lied to especially the women..there has been a lady or 2 who has simply not believed I might approve. Also it's important to both of us that they see we are happy together and that this is not some sort of unhappy marriage problem.

 

So we havent met, which really I should have insisted on but she was not comfortable so we chatted on msn instead. Secondly and this is and was a big obstacle for me, she is a virgin. Not some 19 year old virgin. She is a 31 yr old woman with a good career, who is over weight and has such low self esteem that I just feel horrible for her. She feels there is absolutely no chance any man would ever be interested in her. To me she shouldnt feel that way, we havent met but I have seen a lot of pics of her..dressed..and sure she is a bit heavy but she is really quite lovely, wonderful dark brown hair, HUGE brilliant blue eyes. There is no way that no man has never noticed her. She is painfully shy. Anyway I could go on and on about her and her plight..but you get the idea.

 

My husband noticed she was reading a book he had just finished and engaged her in a conversaton about it. That lead to coffee, which lead to more talks, more coffees and breakfast dates..they work nights, to a movie date. At this point he asked me if it would be ok if they started something physical, I was pretty comfortable and said ok.

 

So now it has been 2 months. They have done..things. They have not done that thing though and she actually asked me if it would be alright with me if they did that. She seems so bound to this thought she is going to die a virgin etc and my husband and I are so kind etc. I say..ok.

 

That was 3 weeks ago, still hasnt happened but I know plans are in the works. Which leads me to this week and my problem.

 

During a recent msn extravaganza with both of them (my husband and I in the same room) I noticed him typing but not in the shared window. Curiousity won me over and I strolled over for a read. She is really attached, too attached and I just know she is falling in love and I have no idea what to do. He knows it too, he swears he didnt know before and since really I can't think of a time where he has ever lied to me..I have to believe him. I feel stuck, he feels stuck.

 

My natural response would be to end it..end it right now, this second..but there is a big part of me that so does not want to hurt her like that. He has no idea what to do, I know he is scared now. This woman has become a very important friend in his life and I know he does not want to hurt her either. Her ego is truly fragile, and I am lost. I don't want her to be hurt when it ends..cause eventually it will end, I don't want to hurt her now when she is so excited about finally losing that huge V inher life. She was even at the point where she was considering paying some stranger to do it for her and God I don't want to see that when she really is such a nice woman.

 

I realise my lifestyle is not for everyone and that I could easily be setting myself up for the bashing of a lifetime, but all I really want is some advise on what to do, when to do it and how to do it with the least amount of pain. Part of me thinks if she gets this, it might give her the confidence to date..I just don't know.

[Freedom Now]

PLEASE don't let your husband steal her virginity from her. She will be EVEN MORE attached if he does this.

 

Be honest and gently tell her that emotions are not part of the equation.

 

She is going to be hurt, but not as much as if she loses her virginity to your husband.

 

You will get no bashing from me. I am in no position to judge anyone on their lifestyle choices.

 

Good luck.

[GreenEyedLady]

You both will hurt her by allowing it...

 

I think your H is probably real excited to be with a virgin...

 

Losing her virginity to a man who has an open marriage is going to give her the confidence to date? Who are you kidding? It will KILL her...she's going to be rejected in the near future by a man she has given her most precious possession...she will probably never trust another man again, much less date anyone...

 

You want to know what to do? Your H and you should never have contact with this woman again...You need to find someone who understands the FULL ramifications of what she is going to enter into...not take advantage of someone who has NO IDEA...even if she thinks she understands the agreement, she DOES NOT...

 

Sorry if I sound harsh...

[Tulie]

Wait wait wait.

 

Actually my husband is not excited about being with a virgin. Actually he is terrified about the entire thing. He is afraid of not satisfying her, of hurting her physiucally and a myraid of other things.

 

I do agree with you about not doing it. Like I said she is talking about paying some total stranger to do it. Thjis bothers me cause I am thinking she will get hurt physically by some person who could care less about her.

 

Just trying to figure out what I can say to her that does not come acxross as some rejection of her due to her looks or something cause that so is not the issue.

 

Arg. I know she is going to be hurt and I feel so bad about it.

[GreenEyedLady]

Sorry Tulie, but I highly doubt he is terrified...

 

Tell her the truth...that she doesn't know what she is getting into...and there is no way some shy virgin is going to walk up to a stranger and pay him to have sex with her...I think she is just saying that to discount what giving her virginity to him will mean to her...and really, how do you feel about him having it?

[Joelle]

Tulie,

 

I say listen to your instinct and insist your H end the relationship. This woman doesn't have the same mature, sophisticated experience you and your H have. It's not a level playing field.

 

If your H proceeds with this relationship, I think you and him would hurt her MORE in the long run.

[whichwayisup]

They cannot be friends, seeing as she's developing intense feelings for him. It's not "just" a casual buddy-buddy friendship. He is also getting attached to her, caring about her wellbeing TOO much for someone who is married already.

 

It may hurt her, but hopefully she'll understand seeing as HE is a married man. Rules are rules and if you two are messing around outside of the marriage with permission, following boundries, then this one is wwaaayyy out in left field and has to end before alot of pain is involved.

 

Maybe, just maybe, you and your husband should take this as a sign, slow down on the messing around outside of the marriage. take time to reconnect, and spend alone time together...Sooner or later these types of things just happen - Intimacy and meeting someone else who makes you feel things you're not supposed to feel except for your spouse.

 

Hope this makes sense.

[outofdarkness]

This problem of mine is fairly unique and I really don't know who to ask for some help, I thought maybe as a group you might be the best place.

 

Let me start by saying this is the result of an open marriage, no one has cheated on anyone, not in my opinion anyway. I have no bad feelings at all about the woman involved and niether has my husband.

 

As I said we have an open marriage, we have for 9 years and it has been very good. Now, some people read that and think all we do is climb around in bed with other people and that is NOT the case. Other people very very occaisionally come into our lives who interest us and we interest them and occaisionally we pursue a limited relationship with them for a short time. Not a one night stand, not a year long affair. Generally they last a month or 2 and eventually the other person becomes involved with someone single and we say our goodbyes..no feelings hurt. We are always upfront and direct about our intentions and have never promised anything but a good friendship with benefits for a short time.

 

Never a problem, not once, not with them, not between us. Until now.

 

He has a friend. The first thing that makes it odd is that I don't know her at all really. We usually at least meet and get to know each other. I find it handy for them to see us together so they know a lot of things. They know they they are not being lied to especially the women..there has been a lady or 2 who has simply not believed I might approve. Also it's important to both of us that they see we are happy together and that this is not some sort of unhappy marriage problem.

 

So we havent met, which really I should have insisted on but she was not comfortable so we chatted on msn instead. Secondly and this is and was a big obstacle for me, she is a virgin. Not some 19 year old virgin. She is a 31 yr old woman with a good career, who is over weight and has such low self esteem that I just feel horrible for her. She feels there is absolutely no chance any man would ever be interested in her. To me she shouldnt feel that way, we havent met but I have seen a lot of pics of her..dressed..and sure she is a bit heavy but she is really quite lovely, wonderful dark brown hair, HUGE brilliant blue eyes. There is no way that no man has never noticed her. She is painfully shy. Anyway I could go on and on about her and her plight..but you get the idea.

 

My husband noticed she was reading a book he had just finished and engaged her in a conversaton about it. That lead to coffee, which lead to more talks, more coffees and breakfast dates..they work nights, to a movie date. At this point he asked me if it would be ok if they started something physical, I was pretty comfortable and said ok.

 

So now it has been 2 months. They have done..things. They have not done that thing though and she actually asked me if it would be alright with me if they did that. She seems so bound to this thought she is going to die a virgin etc and my husband and I are so kind etc. I say..ok.

 

That was 3 weeks ago, still hasnt happened but I know plans are in the works. Which leads me to this week and my problem.

 

During a recent msn extravaganza with both of them (my husband and I in the same room) I noticed him typing but not in the shared window. Curiousity won me over and I strolled over for a read. She is really attached, too attached and I just know she is falling in love and I have no idea what to do. He knows it too, he swears he didnt know before and since really I can't think of a time where he has ever lied to me..I have to believe him. I feel stuck, he feels stuck.

 

My natural response would be to end it..end it right now, this second..but there is a big part of me that so does not want to hurt her like that. He has no idea what to do, I know he is scared now. This woman has become a very important friend in his life and I know he does not want to hurt her either. Her ego is truly fragile, and I am lost. I don't want her to be hurt when it ends..cause eventually it will end, I don't want to hurt her now when she is so excited about finally losing that huge V inher life. She was even at the point where she was considering paying some stranger to do it for her and God I don't want to see that when she really is such a nice woman.

 

I realise my lifestyle is not for everyone and that I could easily be setting myself up for the bashing of a lifetime, but all I really want is some advise on what to do, when to do it and how to do it with the least amount of pain. Part of me thinks if she gets this, it might give her the confidence to date..I just don't know.

I can't relate to open marriages, although I do respect your choice of lifestyle. I would think it would be very hard for someone not to fall for one of you all at some point...Seems that it would be a great idea to have some sort of game plan for just this type of situation...She IS an adult and needs to learn to care for herself, including her insecurities and self image...You all can't fix that for her...I'd cut contact...this sounds like it will end badly..Just my opinion, as I said, I really don't know a thing about open marriages...don't think I could do it...

[Tulie]

Well I think I will make another effort to meet her this weekend, and sit her down and explain that it has to end and why.

 

Whichwayisup, Don't jump to conclusions about my husband and I. this is not something that happens often. An outside partner may come along every 2 years or so. As for our marriage, I can honestly say I don't know a single couple as close as H and I are. We have date night once a week, whether it is dinner or walks or picnics or a night away in a hotel for the 2 of us. He works evening shift and when he gets home we take a moonlight walk together in the neighborhood before our neighbors and good friends go to bed so they can watch our kids. We communicate in everyway constantly, talking emails, a phone call or 2 a night. We banned television completely from our lives. When we are home together the only time we even spend on the computer is to play bridge or crib..together. We have in 10 years of dating and marriage never once bored of each other. We read books together, spend lazy mornings sleeping in and snuggling. Cook for each other. Our children have never even seen or heard us argue cause it is truly that rare. We do keep separate activities like, he builds models with the kids and goes remote controlling with our son, I play poker semi pro. We have a very healthy loving relationship.

 

Just because we do this, dont think we love each other any less then anyone else. I understand it is NOT a choice many would or could make. This is the first problem that has ever arisen from it and I am so sad she will be hurt. You all say, she will get over it..but how many of you have hit 31 years old without a single man ever even asking you out. I wish I could think of a way to end this but still help her in some way. I would gladly introduce to male friends but I don't know any single male guys in the area right now. Is there any way I can assure her this is not the end of everything for her?

 

I feel so truly awful.

[Adunaphel]

Tulie,

 

do not feel awful.

You sound like a really nice and kind person who would not hurt other people on purpose.

 

I agree with the other posters that your husband should cut contact with this woman - possibly expalining her why (and not listening to any "I'll be fine" line she might give).

 

I think that the most painless way you can do this (if you have time to and really feel like it) is:

 

- informing her that you feel it is not right/appropriate/healthy to continue what is going on, and explaining her why exactly.

- cutting *all* physical contact - and cutting all one-to-one meetings/dates. If they see each other, go with them - be as nice and friendly as possible to her. But be there.

- reducing gradually email or phone communication between her and your H. If (and only if!) you like her as a person and enjoy talking to her, you could continue talking to her yourself, possibly giving her tips about where she could make friends. Perhaps she spends too much time on the internet and too little having real life interactions.

But do not continue a friendship with her just out of guilt, do it only if you genuinely like her!!!

[whichwayisup]

You all say, she will get over it..but how many of you have hit 31 years old without a single man ever even asking you out. I wish I could think of a way to end this but still help her in some way. I would gladly introduce to male friends but I don't know any single male guys in the area right now. Is there any way I can assure her this is not the end of everything for her?

The thing is, you and your husband can't control what someone else thinks or feels. She got too emotionally attached, not intentionally ofcourse, but it happened. I know you feel awful and she probably will be hurt, but it's still a threat to your marriage. Your husband and her BONDED, or she bonded with him too much...Which is why the friendship can't go on, it's not fair to her, to you, to your husband and to your marriage. yes, she will be hurt, but I think if she's smart, she'll understand why things can't go on. Last thing you two need is a third person "IN" your marriage, if you know what I mean....

 

You and your husband do sound close, thanks for filling in the blanks abit more about how things are in your daily life.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Tulie,

 

Don't feel bad. You did not do anything wrong. It is not your fault that this woman is emotionally attached to your H.

 

I am an exOW (briefly). I know what it means to fall madly in love with another man - an unavailable man, no less! The way I see your situation is a little different. I hope that I am not too far off:

 

1. This woman has very low self-esteem. In fact, she's convinced that she'd die a virgin. So obviously, she doesn't believe that she can get another man - if you and your H reject her. My thought is: could she be putting your H on a very high pedestal? My take is, she's practically worshipping him like he were her saviour!

 

2. Rejection is not gonna go well with this woman. She WILL become more OBSESSED with your H if he rejects her. She has already identified him as "the ONE" - and any future obstacles are only going to make her work harder to get him! Trust me on this.

 

3. She needs therapy to help her wean herself from your H. She needs to understand that she is not healthy, that for her to think that she'd die a virgin is not OK.

 

4. Since you like to read, get some books on 'addictive love' or 'obsessive love'. I'm pretty sure that's what she is falling into. (But SHE will believe that it is TRUE love.)

 

5. Have a final meeting with her together with your H. Be very brief and firm. Let her know it is over and that you can't continue the 'friendship' because she's not the right person. That's it. Don't give her too many reasons - she will only try to reason with you more. She will only beg and cry.

 

6. Finally, the two of you should cut all contacts with her. Don't be friendly to her - it will only feed on her obsession. If she knows where you live, and your H cannot avoid running into her on a daily basis... then proceed to #7.

 

7. Your H has do the bulk of the work. He has to be calm, emotionless, and avoid talking to her at all if possible. He should show disinterest in anything that she does or say. He has to stop paying attention to her. Don't cry. Don't show sympathy - it will only draw this painful time out for everyone. Also, you may need to get a restraining order if necessary.

 

Tulie,

it is not for you and your H to spare her of her pain. She will be hurt no matter what. She would have been hurt by another man if not by your H. She needs to learn to pick herself up again when a relationship ends. Afterall, she KNEW that your H has an OPEN marriage. She should know that would mean that she could be unwelcomed at any time. I think that you and your H have been kind enough to her. You need to be firm and direct if you want to get through to her. She's still in denial about it all.

 

Break-ups are not easy for ANYONE. Friendships can end. She needs to move on. Period.

 

BTW, do not allow your H to have sex with her. It will be even harder for her to get over him.

[IzzyisDizzy001]

Tulie,

 

I am not an OW, so I hope you don't mind if I reply, but I am in a polyamory style relationship with my husband. I think this woman might be a serious problem if things continue with your husband and her on any level (even friendship). It's obvious that she is dying for attention, affection, and love from a male. My concern is that she is going to think your husband is meant to be hers and hers alone if this is allowed to continue and will cling to him for dear life.

 

I have gone through something similar. My husband had a relationship with a woman who became damn near obsessed with him. Kept trying to convince him that he belonged with her and not me and our family. Kept trying to convince him that they were meant to be together, that they were soulmates, that god brought him into her life for a reason. She was in a creepy little fantasyland of her own creation. The situation with her got completely out of control and for awhile I was frightened she might do something crazy.

 

Please PLEASE back out now.... The longer this continues the worse it's going to get.

[Tulie]

I want to thank you all for taking the time to give me your advise. I am going to follow it. I will begin with my husband and make sure he understands that this is not about any kind of jealousy or possessiveness but concern.

 

I am worried she will be hurt, I am worried that if it goes on..then we won't be able to shake her and she will in some way become a 3rd IN our marriage which is definately NOT something that I could even begin to allow. The reason this all work so well in the first place is because we have such a close bond which I am afraid may somehow break down over this person. She just seems suddenly so dependant on his attention and that is troublesome. Our *thirds* have always been strong independant people who understand the basis of the relationship and been fine with it. There has never been so much as a hard feeling at the end. We are still good friends albiet nonphysical with almost all of them, have had the pleasure of watching some get married and even have kids. This is so different though and definately not healthy.

 

We have 2 children and a very happy family and something about her makes me nervous..about the kids etc. She has never met them or been to our home although she did ask for an invite the other day..I came close to saying yes cause I do want to meet her but something made me say no. I just didnt want her in my home or around my children.

 

She had surgery today. When she is well enough to get up and around I will meet her and H and I will have a talk with her and I will hope and pray that is the end. I am thinking..I should assume a crash position though, I am thinkin this is not going to be simple.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

She had surgery today. When she is well enough to get up and around I will meet her and H and I will have a talk with her and I will hope and pray that is the end. I am thinking..I should assume a crash position though, I am thinkin this is not going to be simple.

 

What kind of surgery? (I hope it's not the gastric-bypass surgery or any other 'enhancement' surgery. )

 

This is not going to be simple. When emotions are involved, everyone will get hurt. Since your H is probably also her first "official" lover/BF, she will not take rejection well. She will become more obsessed with him, even more convinced that he is "the one". I know because I have only been intimate with one man - my H - when I met my OM. When he gave me the attention that I so craved, I completely lost myself. I became obsessive - and depressed. But it was all my own doing, and I eventually snapped out of it. She will need counseling to help her through this period, like I did.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Transkei]

be absolutely sure you and H are on the same page (why he was chatting in another window in MSN is a red flag to me) before you meet her.

 

What is paramount is that you and your H have total and complete NC with her after you guys talk to her. There is no way to let her down without pain, its going to hurt - thats a given. Explain during your meeting that NC is going to happen - its the only option.

 

yes, she might go out and pay a man to take her virginity - but it is unlikely. Even if she does, so what? let us not pretend that losing virginity is in any way great fun. The emotional bond is what remains - i mean, we all remember our first! good or bad, we remember.

 

Her relationship with your H should show her that she isnt a freak of nature, and that she can attract a man. If she is overly concerned about it, there are thousands of ways to overcome her fear. Specialized groups for heavy folk, lonely people, classes on how to overcome shyness, how to seduce, etc etc. Her emotional issues are not your own - dont take them on!

 

If its only her virginity that is bugging her, there are a multitude of professional gigalos who are paid to ensure she has a good time and feels great about herself.

 

btw - what nearly drove me to suicide with my first MM was my emotional attachment, and when I begged enough, he´d respond. It did nothing but show me he still cared - even with his ****ty emails - as long as he kept talking to me, I couldnt let go. I started to manipulate him where possible, anything to get my emotional fix. CRazy, but true.

 

GO NC!

[Transkei]

cant believe that was my first post been lurking for months.. member for weeks now..

 

wanted to add - I also lead a fulfilling, happy alternative lifestyle

[Flyin in Clouds]

Not an OW, but if adults consent ... no condemnation from me. When someone cheats on the rules they agree to live by, well that's were I see a problem, as do most who live in alternate lifestyles.

 

I think the three of you need to meet and talk about the whole thing. You certainly need to air all your concerns to both of them. And I think each persons needs to decide for themselves what is best here.

 

If after discussing the issues of emotional attachment and her hoping this leads to more and that it won't, she still wants to loose it, and you are still uncomfortable with that then maybe you can help point her where she might meet some guys that would help her out. There are many guys out there that are lonely too.

 

As to a propfessional gigolo, if the only way I could have sex was to pay a woman for it, I think I'd put a bullet in my head.

 

good luck.

[aubrey_25_99]

Let me first say that I have nothing against open marriages or polyamory or anything like that. If you choose to love that way, then more power to you!

 

The problem lies here: this woman you are speaking of has had very little contact with men. She feels ignored by them, insignificant, etc. Along comes your husband and he pays attention to her, shows interest in her both phyisically and emotionally, and makes her feel good about herself. Of course she is going to fall in love with him! She has never known another man that would treat her this good!

 

You need to be gentle with her, as not to damage her fragile self esteem, but also firm. If you don't, you'll have a hanger on in your marriage and life for a long time. She will be more damaged by this relationship the longer she remains involved with your husband.

 

Open marriages are for people with high self esteem who are not prone to long term commitment. It worries me how you seem to be so non-challant about the people you and your husband date. Please remember that these are real people with real feelings. Feelings that you cannot control. Neither can you control your husbands emotions.

 

Someday, you might find yourself alone because your husband fell in love with someone else that you invited in to your marriage. That is what happened to me, but I was the OW in the situation. I ended up with the husband, to make a long story short. But before we got to that point, it was a huge struggle for the W to accept what happened and it took her by surprise that her marriage was falling apart and it was because of someone that she invited in to it. But she wanted to treat me like a throw away as soon as her H and I started getting close and it turned in to a huge struggle. Let's just say things got ugly!

 

I am not trying to preach to you, but please don't take other peoples feelings or potential feelings so lightly.

 

Anyway, back to the subject, I definately think that you should break it off with this woman. Like I said, you will end up with a clinger for life (or so it will seem). Maybe instead of your husband, you might help her find the self confidence to meet a non-married man. This kind of a person needs their own private world, not one that belongs to someone else. It will hurt her at first, but she will be stronger for it. If it is not too late, break it off before your husband does ANYTHING physical with her. This will only strengthen her attachment.

 

I hope my advice has helped. I have been involved with 2 open marriages, and both of the marriages were "opened" for the wrong reasons. (Basically, none of the people in these marriages were really equipped to be polyamorous and were just using me in some way or another). I really am not opposed to open marriages or Polyamory, but it takes a certain type of person, and from what you have told me, your husband's friend is most assuredly not that type.

 

Good luck in all you do. I hope that everything turns out OK for all three of you. Love is a strange, wonderful, terrible thing... isn't it?

[ahotmess]

For the sake of the girl..please end this now. I am in the early stages of NC with my MM. His W does not know about his extramarital activities. He confessed his love for me first. We are madly in love, but his career and finances have a hold over him right now.

 

It is safe to say that our situations are different. Yet as the OW in your situation...she can never heal, never move on, unless your H just leaves her alone. NC is the only way.

 

Have a chat with her. Oneday she will understand the situation that the two of you are in...honestly I commend your lifestyle. As long as feelings aren't involved...a little distraction is probably healthy.

 

Explain things to her, wish her well, then let her go. She deserves that, before she gets hurt.

[Guest]

I would most definately end this relationship with her before it damages yours and H's relationship. Which is more important? You don't have to be cruel to her just tell her and walk away. The longer this drags out the more painful it will be.

[Guest]

Wait wait wait.

 

Actually my husband is not excited about being with a virgin. Actually he is terrified about the entire thing. He is afraid of not satisfying her, of hurting her physically and a myriad of other things.

 

I do agree with you about not doing it. Like I said she is talking about paying some total stranger to do it. This bothers me cause I am thinking she will get hurt physically by some person who could care less about her.

 

Just trying to figure out what I can say to her that does not come acxross as some rejection of her due to her looks or something cause that so is not the issue.

 

Arg. I know she is going to be hurt and I feel so bad about it.

 

I am not trying to bash you but you wrote everything that you feel...she is fat, shy, falling in love, and he is sneaking around, and you might feel insecure since you have never met her....quit and leave her a lone!

 

It is not your responsibility to worry about a 31 year old woman. You talk as if she is a child. She's a VIRGIN for goodness sake! Virgin does not mean that she nees a guardian.

 

She is overweight and shy. Leave her alone and find someone else.

 

Your husband, although not "scared" to screw a virgin, really wants to screw her and take her virginity. It's almost a male nature to conquer a vagina even if he is kind and honest with you.

 

Leave her alone and tell your husband to.

 

If she pays someone to screw her, it is better because she won't have the feelings involved and let her learn her own lesson. She is old enough to deal with her actions as a responsible adult.