I'm a guest BW

[Guest]

Thank you for sharing your story 'guest'. I think I'm learning a little more about the anger towards OW.

 

So if I understand you correctly,

1. Bs's are angry at OW because they think ow are complaining about their feelings

2. Bs's are angry at ow because OW stole time away from wife while he's out 'moving on' with OW. (not fair)

 

Is that it? correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. The truth is, I don't think that anything I say will help an OW completely understand the feelings of a BS and vice versa. I'm sure each person has their own reasons why they feel the way they do, but I don't think there are many BS that don't have some sort of anger towards the OW.

 

I'm just talking about adults taking responsibility for their actions and that includes the MM, the W and the OW.

 

So,

 

Yes you are right, I don't want to hear the OW ask why this happened to her. She knows why it happened. She had the power to not have this happen to her.

 

As far as your #2, I was making the point that the W is the one that doesn't know what is going on behind her back and it's unfair to her because she doesn't have the truth to be able to base her decisions on. If her husband wants to be with another woman, he should give his wife the chance to move on with her life as well. Yes, I put this one in the hands of the husband. The truth is, most of the time the MM wants to be with the wife, but he doesn't know how to deal with the problems in the marriage. So he has an A and when he is about to lose his W, he becomes ready to work on the problems. Wouldn't it be grand if the OW could wait to have sex with the MM until he makes his mind up about what he wants? That way we wouldn't have so many angry BS and hurt OW. I guess that's too much to ask.

[BenThereDunThat]

You can philosophise on this all you want. Who's at fault, who isn't at fault, who is the victim, who isn't....this has been going on throughout human history.

 

I'm just saying most of us OW's in here don't consider ourselves victims.

 

We sought this place out as a place to learn, heal, grow.

 

If it makes you feel better to jump in and spout off, go right ahead.

 

For every type of OW out there, there are just as many MM types. You can't generalize.

[lover's rock]

I think thats an honerable think he he said. You don't? Both women are misled during an affair thats how it can last for such a long time.

 

It's hard for me to give one statement of his honor when many statements of his are lies. I only count the statements that he follows through on.

 

I can understand how you may feel honored in the presence of a statement like that. Or even think that he is honorable in the process and I'm not saying that he isn't in some ways. But I know the man. 6 years of knowledge versus 9 months of rose colored glasses for the OW are incomparable to me. I can see through the bull. And to me, it's mostly bull at this moment. One day maybe it won't be. It's what he says he's working towards. Only time will tell.

[lover's rock]

Thank you for sharing your story 'guest'. I think I'm learning a little more about the anger towards OW.

 

So if I understand you correctly,

1. Bs's are angry at OW because they think ow are complaining about their feelings

2. Bs's are angry at ow because OW stole time away from wife while he's out 'moving on' with OW. (not fair)

 

Is that it? correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

Honestly, I think that every situation is different. But I think that, in general, people tend to be angry with the unknown. More often than not, all a BS knows about the OW is that she's having sex with her H. But I find that through knowledge and understanding, some of that anger can dissipate. Mine has become pity moreso than anger. I'd hate to be her even though I know she wants to be me. She wants what I have...the man, the children, the familylife. And I'm not saying that's the case with all OW. This is the case with my individual situation.

 

Why are BS angry with OW? Many reasons. Most BS's could never imagine being the OW. It's too hard while dealing with the situation to put yourself in the OW's shoes. There's the issue of morality, the issue of sanity, the issue of self-esteem...and just plain "how could you". It's extremely difficult to understand.

 

MM lead double lives. They are one way with the W and another way with the OW. So whereas the OW say "this wonderful man! How could she treat him that way?" The BS say "this wretched man! How could he do this? How did this happen? And WHO IS SHE??" BS have many questions because they are the ones left out of the loop. Lack of knowledge and understanding equals anger. It's not just one individual thing.

 

The OW and MM keep secrets. When a BS finds out she has to uncover those secrets one by one. Each is a source of hurt and anger that has to be processed and dealt with long after the OW is gone and the MM has decided to stay and work on his marriage. It takes years of time and counseling to come to true reconciliation. That's alot of work! Can you see how a BS might be angry with an OW for getting involved, wreaking havoc and then leaving while the BS and MM are left with mountains of hardwork. An OW only has to deal with herself after she has chosen not to be involved anymore. It's much harder to get two people on the same wavelength together.

 

I'm not saying that all BS's feel this way but I'm trying to put into words why a BS might be angry with an OW. It's not as simple as bullet points or 123s.

[Dayzie]

 

In my opinion (and this is my opinion), if a married man hits on a woman, the appropriate response is, call me when you get a divorce. If two people have true love, yes they should be together, but not until the W has been given her chance to move on and find her own true love.

 

 

so he can't move on and be happy until the wife has moved on? If this were the case there would be millions of unhappy men and women waiting until their spouse has found happiness.

[Guest]

so he can't move on and be happy until the wife has moved on? If this were the case there would be millions of unhappy men and women waiting until their spouse has found happiness.

 

you misunderstood this, so I will make it clear. The husband should be honest with his W and let her live her life knowing where she stands. At that point he is free to do what he wants and the wife can move on happy or not that's her choice but at least she would know where she stands.

[GreenEyedLady]

I don't recollect anyone asking why the BS is angry...we KNOW why the BS is angry; her H is an a**hole and doesn't respect his marriage vows..the part we don't get is why ALL that anger is directly placed on us, when we didn't promise anyone anything...

[Seen_It_All]

...the part we don't get is why ALL that anger is directly placed on us, when we didn't promise anyone anything...

 

With all due respect GreenEyedLady, you don't need to 'promise' anything to someone in order to show them the common courtesy that we, as humans, should show to each other.

 

I didn't 'promise' my neighbor that I would always keep my stereo down low or not have loud parties late into the night. I didn't 'promise' the UPS man that I wouldn't trip him when he's carrying packages to deliver. Yet, out of simple common courtesy toward my fellow man, I DON'T do these things. I think that's what the BWs are trying to get across to everyone here. And I hear where they're coming from.

 

They already KNOW their husbands failed miserably. That's not news to them. But they want to know WHY most OW don't feel any accountability WHATSOEVER for their roles in these affairs. It all comes down to respect and common courtesy for our fellow human beings. Period. When you engage in an affair, you're engaging in behavior that you KNOW would devastate a fellow human being. It doesn't MATTER that you didn't make vows with the betrayed wife. All that matters is that you knowingly DISRESPECTED her by engaging in hurtful behavior you knew would devastate her.

 

I think it's mostly the fact that OW refuse to accept ANY accountability for the damage caused by an affair, and continually use the cop out, "I didn't promise the BW anything." I'm not a BW, but I can certainly understand why they feel this way.

[whichwayisup]

People should respect other people's marriages, even if the wandering spouse is wandering and looking...ahh, if only, but it's not a perfect world.

[BenThereDunThat]

With all due respect GreenEyedLady, you don't need to 'promise' anything to someone in order to show them the common courtesy that we, as humans, should show to each other.

 

I didn't 'promise' my neighbor that I would always keep my stereo down low or not have loud parties late into the night. I didn't 'promise' the UPS man that I wouldn't trip him when he's carrying packages to deliver. Yet, out of simple common courtesy toward my fellow man, I DON'T do these things. I think that's what the BWs are trying to get across to everyone here. And I hear where they're coming from.

 

They already KNOW their husbands failed miserably. That's not news to them. But they want to know WHY most OW don't feel any accountability WHATSOEVER for their roles in these affairs. It all comes down to respect and common courtesy for our fellow human beings. Period. When you engage in an affair, you're engaging in behavior that you KNOW would devastate a fellow human being. It doesn't MATTER that you didn't make vows with the betrayed wife. All that matters is that you knowingly DISRESPECTED her by engaging in hurtful behavior you knew would devastate her.

 

I think it's mostly the fact that OW refuse to accept ANY accountability for the damage caused by an affair, and continually use the cop out, "I didn't promise the BW anything." I'm not a BW, but I can certainly understand why they feel this way.

 

Wait a minute. I can only think of one OW here, in recent memory, who didn't hold herself even partly accountable for her part in the affair.

 

No one has ever said that the MM held her down and forced her into anything.

 

This is all I've been trying to say. We (and I mean most of us here) came here to share our feelings -- be they guilt, shame, heartache, loss, whatever. Show me one OW here who has flat-out said "It's not my fault, it's HIS!". Of course, I'm excluding the poor women who had the misfortune to date the jerks who acted like they weren't even married at all.

 

Read enough threads and you should come to the understanding that these are intelligent, thoughtful, caring women who never thought they'd be in this situation to begin with. Once they realized what they were doing, they struggled like hell to get out. Say what you want about what we SHOULD have known, what we SHOULD have said. For us, here, that's irrelevant. We're dealing with the here and now. Getting out of it. Getting away from the MM who picked up on our every insecurity, the MM who made us feel like no one else would ever understand us the way HE did.

 

I wish I could sit here and tell you that no, I turned him away because I felt some fellow womanhood toward the W. But I'd be lying. I didn't. All I know is that I went with the way he made me feel. Of course, I see now how false it all was.

 

Sorry to be so blunt. But I am not some black widow out to steal someone else's man. I was weak and got caught up in a stupid situation. And nothing you say can make me feel worse than I already do. Not for what I did to the BS, but for what I did to ME.

[Freedom Now]

I couldn't have said it any better than that, BTDT.

 

I concur with what you just said.

 

Bravo.

[GreenEyedLady]

With all due respect GreenEyedLady, you don't need to 'promise' anything to someone in order to show them the common courtesy that we, as humans, should show to each other.

 

I didn't 'promise' my neighbor that I would always keep my stereo down low or not have loud parties late into the night. I didn't 'promise' the UPS man that I wouldn't trip him when he's carrying packages to deliver. Yet, out of simple common courtesy toward my fellow man, I DON'T do these things. I think that's what the BWs are trying to get across to everyone here. And I hear where they're coming from.

 

They already KNOW their husbands failed miserably. That's not news to them. But they want to know WHY most OW don't feel any accountability WHATSOEVER for their roles in these affairs. It all comes down to respect and common courtesy for our fellow human beings. Period. When you engage in an affair, you're engaging in behavior that you KNOW would devastate a fellow human being. It doesn't MATTER that you didn't make vows with the betrayed wife. All that matters is that you knowingly DISRESPECTED her by engaging in hurtful behavior you knew would devastate her.

 

I think it's mostly the fact that OW refuse to accept ANY accountability for the damage caused by an affair, and continually use the cop out, "I didn't promise the BW anything." I'm not a BW, but I can certainly understand why they feel this way.

 

I disagree that OW take no accountability for the damage...have you been reading the threads around here? I take issue with the fact that just because a man has strayed, the PERSON he has strayed with is demonized while the man is applauded for working on his M...doing his duty...fulfilling his committment...and he is the one who pursued it...

 

People do lots of things simply out of respect for another's feelings...and all the examples that you have given are good...however they differ fundamentally in the fact that they are not matters of the heart...and it is complacent of W to just expect other women to stay away because their H is married...you assume that OW know the men are married, that is not always the case...now it is true once you find out, you can break-up but is anything so simple? I'm sure to some it is...to me it is not...

 

The BS and OW have similarities: we have both been lied to...we love the same man..and the pain on both sides is genuine and deep...there is nothing anyone can say to make it right...and you don't know what it's like to walk in someone's shoes until it happens to you...

 

In a perfect world, MM would actually wear their rings and be faithful to their W...that would really solve all the problems...(which some do but they're not the ones that we are dealing with)...

[GreenEyedLady]

Wait a minute. I can only think of one OW here, in recent memory, who didn't hold herself even partly accountable for her part in the affair.

 

No one has ever said that the MM held her down and forced her into anything.

 

This is all I've been trying to say. We (and I mean most of us here) came here to share our feelings -- be they guilt, shame, heartache, loss, whatever. Show me one OW here who has flat-out said "It's not my fault, it's HIS!". Of course, I'm excluding the poor women who had the misfortune to date the jerks who acted like they weren't even married at all.

 

Read enough threads and you should come to the understanding that these are intelligent, thoughtful, caring women who never thought they'd be in this situation to begin with. Once they realized what they were doing, they struggled like hell to get out. Say what you want about what we SHOULD have known, what we SHOULD have said. For us, here, that's irrelevant. We're dealing with the here and now. Getting out of it. Getting away from the MM who picked up on our every insecurity, the MM who made us feel like no one else would ever understand us the way HE did.

 

I wish I could sit here and tell you that no, I turned him away because I felt some fellow womanhood toward the W. But I'd be lying. I didn't. All I know is that I went with the way he made me feel. Of course, I see now how false it all was.

 

Sorry to be so blunt. But I am not some black widow out to steal someone else's man. I was weak and got caught up in a stupid situation. And nothing you say can make me feel worse than I already do. Not for what I did to the BS, but for what I did to ME.

 

Well said! I was writing at the same time so I didn't see it until now...

[BenThereDunThat]

The BS and OW have similarities: we have both been lied to...we love the same man..and the pain on both sides is genuine and deep...there is nothing anyone can say to make it right...and you don't know what it's like to walk in someone's shoes until it happens to you...

 

In a perfect world, MM would actually wear their rings and be faithful to their W...that would really solve all the problems...(which some do but they're not the ones that we are dealing with)...

 

Thank you!

 

Exactly.

[Freedom Now]

Yes, if MY MM had worn his ring, admitted he was married, and refused to pursue me like a man with a mission, I would not be here today.

 

It is NOT a perfect world. As many, many of us can personally attest to.

 

And until someone has walked in any of us OW's shoes, you cannot possibly begin to understand the realm of emotions that we feel.

 

We are NOT asking for pity. Please don't misunderstand. We are just asking that you view as humans just like the BW. Not every situation is as cut and dried as one would think.

[kimmillah]

Exactly why am I expected to be held to a higher standard than the MM??

 

Shouldn't the question be to the MM why hasn't basic respect for his W kicked in?? Okay - nevermind basic respect because we aren't talking about a friend or co-worker, but about a person who was supposed to be a life partner. Why hasn't the love, honesty and total respect kicked in?

 

Why expect the OW to treat the W any better than the MM does? I don't know her, she is not my friend or neighbor, not my co-worker or acquaintance. My knowledge of her comes from him.

 

If you read my post carefully, you can see I was responding to why there is resentment toward the OW. That was the focus of the thread. Of course, you hold the MM accountable for his actions as well. He was not honoring the marriage either. At the same time, I don't believe an OW is a public service worker hired to go around fixing the hearts of unhappily married men either (divorced and single men, maybe). As a woman, I have the basic respect for other women, men, and marriage. It is not because I know them or I'm their co worker, but because he/she is a human being. I don't want to hurt anyone whether I know them or not.

[veronese]

But i can tell you that if his W had done everything right, he would have never approached me. Yes, he was being selfish, but she didn't try to fill the needs that he discussed with her many times and how he felt.

 

I'm not pointing the finger at her, but i refuse to take all the blame in this triangle. I am fully aware of what i am doing, and so is he. We must deal with any and all consequences if things do go wrong.

QUOTE]

 

 

I don't recollect anyone asking why the BS is angry...we KNOW why the BS is angry; her H is an a**hole and doesn't respect his marriage vows..the part we don't get is why ALL that anger is directly placed on us, when we didn't promise anyone anything...

 

I think what frustrates some of us BW is that so many OW seem unable to understand what we are saying in threads like this one and time and time again take issue with something the OP hasn't actually said.

 

Two examples of this are above, Stillhere and Greeneyedlady say they 'refuse to take all the blame' and 'we don't get why ALL that anger is directly placed on us'.....

 

Who's placing all the blame on you guys? The OP certainly isn't but for some reason you don't seem able to recognise it. Most BW's DO NOT PLACE ALL THE BLAME ON THE OW. most BWs place most of the blame ON THEIR HUSBANDS and blame the OW far less than their men.

 

It seems though that some OW object to any kind of backlash from BWs and make it quite clear that negative, accusatory posts are unwelcome on this forum. This is a forum for support to OW so apparently BWs are shouldn't come here to 'bash' or 'blame' anyone.

 

Well according to Stillhere if her MM's wife had 'done everything right' he wouldn't have approached her but that they 'must deal with any and all consequences if things do go wrong.' Similarly if you had done everything right and not got involved with a MM the words of BWs would not be of any concern to you personally. And believe it or not, BWs posting slightly uncomplimentary threads on LS are the least of the consequences you may have to face as a result of having an affair with a MM.

 

His wife has to face a fair few consequences as a result of her husband's affair with you too, but I don't think many wives get consulted beforehand do they?

 

Why shouldn't a BW blame the OW for her part in the affair and furthermore, why shouldn't she be allowed to say so? She didn't make any vows to the OW, hell she usually hasn't got a clue who the OW even is, why do so many OW resent hearing her thoughts on the subject? If OW can shag married men I think BW's are entitled to their reactions and anger, whether you like it or not. It baffles me how affronted some of you get whenever a BW pops in and has a go at you.

 

It's funny how GEL describes the wife's husband as an arsehole who doesn't respect his marriage vows. That's the same arsehole she had an affair with who didn't respect her either I suspect.

 

Maybe it's time wives recognised that this world is full of people who don't share their views on morality and respect, but maybe it's time some OW recognised that a lot of wives don't share their views on affairs either, especially when it's their husband who's having/had one.

 

I realise the new arrivals may react to my post as another attack on OW. It's not. I'm merely pointing out the facts as sometimes I can't believe how stroppy and unreasonable a few of you can be. I'm sorry you are in pain and hope you eventually move on to a happier place in your life

 

veronese x

[BUTAFLY]

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. The truth is, I don't think that anything I say will help an OW completely understand the feelings of a BS and vice versa.

 

 

I picked those two points out of a post which I can tell is full with emotion and frustration, so thats why I asked you to correct me if I were wrong. I am trying to understand you side and I thank you for your openess.

[BUTAFLY]

. But I think that, in general, people tend to be angry with the unknown.

 

Why are BS angry with OW?

 

MM lead double lives. They are one way with the W and another way with the OW. So whereas the OW say "this wonderful man! How could she treat him that way?" The BS say "this wretched man! How could he do this? How did this happen? And WHO IS SHE??" BS have many questions because they are the ones left out of the loop. Lack of knowledge and understanding equals anger. It's not just one individual thing.

 

Good obervation,I think your right. This must to the crux of it.

[Chapter2]

This is boring and dumb...just wanted to interject something for goodness sake;)

[GreenEyedLady]

 

 

It's funny how GEL describes the wife's husband as an arsehole who doesn't respect his marriage vows. That's the same arsehole she had an affair with who didn't respect her either I suspect.

 

veronese x

 

I KNOW who I'm with...believe me I don't have rose colored glasses on...he lied to me about being married...so i don't leave that out of the equation...I just love him anyway...

[BUTAFLY]

But they want to know WHY most OW don't feel any accountability WHATSOEVER for their roles in these affairs. It all comes down to respect and common courtesy for our fellow human beings. Period.

 

The first time I relized I couldn't count on a stranger to look out for my best interest was when was 9yrs old.

I rode my bike to the corner store, placed it out front leaning against the store window. I went in for a few minutes, when I came out my bike was gone. Someone stole my bike. A patron in the store saw someone ride off with it and didn't stop him.

 

Walking on my way home I was thinking how could someone take my bike. I was mad at theif and at the man who saw it stolen. I thought he owed me the courtesy to give me a heads up or to shout at the theif to scare him off because thats what i would have done, But he didn't.

 

I told my parents that I blamed the thief and the man who saw the whole thing go down that my bike was gone.

 

My parents told me they are not reponsible for protecting my bike...I was. I should have locked it up or kept a better eye on it. There are people that may have walked right past the bike and then there are those who will help themselves. Just because I won't steal, doesn't mean others feel the same way.

[lover's rock]

The first time I relized I couldn't count on a stranger to look out for my best interest was when was 9yrs old.

I rode my bike to the corner store, placed it out front leaning against the store window. I went in for a few minutes, when I came out my bike was gone. Someone stole my bike. A patron in the store saw someone ride off with it and didn't stop him.

 

Walking on my way home I was thinking how could someone take my bike. I was mad at theif and at the man who saw it stolen. I thought he owed me the courtesy to give me a heads up or to shout at the theif to scare him off because thats what i would have done, But he didn't.

 

I told my parents that I blamed the thief and the man who saw the whole thing go down that my bike was gone.

 

My parents told me they are not reponsible for protecting my bike...I was. I should have locked it up or kept a better eye on it. There are people that may have walked right past the bike and then there are those who will help themselves. Just because I won't steal, doesn't mean others feel the same way.

 

 

Does this example make OW out to be thieves? Some women will help themselves to your husband and some won't? What a deterioration of sisterhood and decency...

[Trimmer]

Does this example make OW out to be thieves? Some women will help themselves to your husband and some won't? What a deterioration of sisterhood and decency...

Do you mean that BUTAFLY's presentation of that example, and her characterization of OW, is such a deterioration, or are you talking about the state of our society where some outsiders (OW and OM alike) are ambivalent about respecting others' marriages being a deterioration?

[BUTAFLY]

I guess it can be interpeted both ways but...

A sentiment I keep hearing is 'She should have known better to have shown me the respect and courtsey and left my husband alone, now I'm hurt, my family is hurt.'

I am all for sisterhood, courtsey and repect. It sounds good, but you can't rely on others to do and think the same as you.

(i'm gonna say this again)

 

The fact is, people are going to find your H or W attractive. Some my respect your marriage; some my not. Those who do, will walk away.

Those who don't, will NOT have regard or feel responsible for you.

 

I understand the frustation and anger at the situation. Just as I wanted to blame the others for my lose but I can't. I made that opporunity available for the kid that stole my bike and blaming the man who saw it was out of frustration. So I understand wanting to be angry at OW but in essence its not the true source of anger but easy to place it there.