romance novels

[catgirl1927]

This is where men percieve the double standard. What about the expectations a romance novel puts upon men? How can the husband suddenly be the mysterious stranger cowboy with a husky voice who came in dusty from a long ride through the wilderness just to find that one rose bush?

We can't compete with that fantasy person any more than the wife can stay 19, have perfect airbrushed silicone breasts, insatiable libido and the flexibity of a contortionist.

 

In a way they are both creating fantasies just in different ways for the two genders.

 

:lmao: Howdy, pardner!

 

Not the same, but cute visual.

[sumdude]

:lmao: Howdy, pardner!

 

Not the same, but cute visual.

 

" Howdy Miss, is there a place in town I could get a bed for a night?":D

 

 

Not the same but 'relatively' similar, more homonym than simile perhaps?

 

It's all about perception. Women and men often percieve things differently and sex is a big one.

 

I know that sex with my wife has changed a lot and not just frequency. There were things we would do that were adventurous during our first years together before marriage that now my wife has no interest in at all seven years later. These were things she often initiated. So it does sometimes feel like a bait and switch. IOW Did she do those things to get the ring now she doesn't have to? (I only think this when pissed, frustrated and irrational but I do think it on occasion)

 

Mind you things are OK with us sexually, meaning just OK. Nothing that would lead me to leave, cheat or anything. But I sure do miss at least the occasional wild n' crazy stuff o at least her going out of the way to please me as I do for her. If things slowed down much though I would be pretty frustrated.

[bluetuesday]

i think there is a difference between romance novels and porn.

 

and it's to do with the objectification of a real person and a made up person. a made up person, because they do not actually exist, cannot be exploited. a real person can.

 

through porn we approve of the performers being hurt physically (through sexually transmitted diseases, for example), emotionally or spiritually so we can watch them being screwed. through romantic fiction, even graphically explicit material, all we allow is the thought of it. and while romance novels can be explicit, they are not genrally mysogynistic. they contain sex but they don't reduce women to sex objects, because the people who read them are mostly women and wouldn't stand for it.

 

so if your wife has a moral objection towards porn which is to do with you looking at other real women and making a comparison, or to do with the fact that porn objectifies women, you cannot safely argue that her being turned on by the idea of someone made up and written down in a book is the same as you checking out real women.

[tanbark813]

The issue isn't whether or not romance novels are porn. The issue is that they're both fantasy. It's blatantly hypocritical for a woman to read romance novels but "forbid" her husband to watch porn. They both serve to inspire fantasies in their audience.

 

Women who are trying to argue that romance novels are okay but porn is not are simply rationalizing their own double standard.

[Pink_Tulip]

The issue isn't whether or not romance novels are porn. The issue is that they're both fantasy. It's blatantly hypocritical for a woman to read romance novels but "forbid" her husband to watch porn. They both serve to inspire fantasies in their audience.

 

Women who are trying to argue that romance novels are okay but porn is not are simply rationalizing their own double standard.

 

I agree with this completely, but in this particular case, it doesn't seem to me to be about porn or books, etc. Something is wrong in this relationship that has nothing to do with sex. JMO.

[sumdude]

i think there is a difference between romance novels and porn.

 

and it's to do with the objectification of a real person and a made up person. a made up person, because they do not actually exist, cannot be exploited. a real person can.

 

through porn we approve of the performers being hurt physically (through sexually transmitted diseases, for example), emotionally or spiritually so we can watch them being screwed. through romantic fiction, even graphically explicit material, all we allow is the thought of it. and while romance novels can be explicit, they are not genrally mysogynistic. they contain sex but they don't reduce women to sex objects, because the people who read them are mostly women and wouldn't stand for it.

 

so if your wife has a moral objection towards porn which is to do with you looking at other real women and making a comparison, or to do with the fact that porn objectifies women, you cannot safely argue that her being turned on by the idea of someone made up and written down in a book is the same as you checking out real women.

 

 

So, if I read this right.

 

IF the porn movie is written as a book then it's OK?

(yes there is hard porn reading out there)

 

 

and

 

IF the romance novel is turned into a movie complete will ALL sex scenes intact then it's evil?

[tanbark813]

Something is wrong in this relationship that has nothing to do with sex. JMO.

 

Definitely. The OP should focus on why his wife is so resentful of him and work on solving that problem. I'm guessing if he did, it would indirectly help fix the romance novel/porn situation, or at least improve the situation.

[blind_otter]

I think the main problem women have with porn is that it makes women look like tools and those guys who use porn alot normally have expectations that the woman might not be comfortable with.

 

Forigve me for not reading your novel, but I had to interject that I completely disagree with this statement. Romance novels make men look like total tools, too.

 

How can women think that these guys are attractive? They are always so two-dimensional.

[Trimmer]

Something is wrong in this relationship that has nothing to do with sex. JMO.

I agree. And as a matter of fact, I think we are doing the OP a disservice by descending into the whole argument of "is it porn, or is it better or worse than porn?" because that actually obscures the important issue for this poster and his relationship. The real issue in this case isn't what label you put on it, so that you can let that label guide you as to whether things are "OK" or "bad," or whether you can use "your porn" against your wife in the argument. The question - just as when men use porn - is: does this behavior reveal something going wrong in the relationship, is this behavior interfering with the relationship, is this behavior being used as a substitute for intimacy within the relationship?

 

Stop focusing on what label to put on it, whether it is better or worse than "men's porn" or if it matters whether it is pictures or words or movies or print. The point is, what does this tell you about what is going on in your particular relationship, and how you are both affected by it - individually and as a couple?

 

When she replied about your perfume comment "I bet you would think it would smell better on someone else..." to me that sounds either downright hostile, or shows a severe lack or confidence in the relationship. Are there similar undercurrents elsewhere in your relationship, other than just the romance novel issue?

[bluetuesday]

So, if I read this right.

 

IF the porn movie is written as a book then it's OK?

(yes there is hard porn reading out there)

 

 

and

 

IF the romance novel is turned into a movie complete will ALL sex scenes intact then it's evil?

 

i didn't use the word evil.

 

this is not a case of what is stimulating. both are.

 

but porn isn't merely stimulating - it's also using real people. i am putting the case that the wife may object to the man looking at real women and getting turned on. or she may object to porn per se because it objectifies real women.

 

that is different from the woman in this case reading about men. because the men are in her mind. they don't exist. it's pure fantasy. it doesn't involve her finding real men she isn't married to, and watching them have sex to get her off.

[CrushedOrgans]

 

that is different from the woman in this case reading about men. because the men are in her mind.

 

i'm way with you on this one.

 

i don't believe that women read romance novels the same way men look at porny women.

[catgirl1927]

The men are in her mind, they are pure fantasy and women realize that. As cheesy and dumb as romance novels are, no one thinks they are real. Women are not likely to compare and contrast, because they recognize that those men aren't real.

 

Women in porn are real, and therefore, men compare and contrast.

[tanbark813]

because the men are in her mind. they don't exist.

 

Well, technically, everything you perceive is in your mind. Since all senses and thoughts you have exist entirely within your thought process, there is no real way to determine what is truly reality and what is not. Some quantum physicists would argue that your thoughts are just as real as what you see in front of you, since what you see are essentially thoughts as well. But that's getting on a huge tangent.

 

The men are in her mind, they are pure fantasy and women realize that. As cheesy and dumb as romance novels are, no one thinks they are real. Women are not likely to compare and contrast, because they recognize that those men aren't real.

 

Women in porn are real, and therefore, men compare and contrast.

 

Well thank God we have catgirl to let us know what all women and all men think.

[sumdude]

The men are in her mind, they are pure fantasy and women realize that. As cheesy and dumb as romance novels are, no one thinks they are real. Women are not likely to compare and contrast, because they recognize that those men aren't real.

 

Women in porn are real, and therefore, men compare and contrast.

 

So someone can't compare and contrast unless it's visual stimulus? When we are reading posts on LS we never compare and contrast? When we watch Star Wars are the Wookies real? Women don't make comparisons with Keanu Reeves or any other man on the screen or perhaps even the character they are playing?

 

I'm pretty sure we men can tell that these folks are acting in the porn. They're getting paid and are often generally pretty unreal. There is some pretty awful crap out there though that I find offensive.

 

As far as the OP, the post itself WAS about romance novels and were they comparable to 'porn'.

[Yamaha]

There's more going on than just the book.

 

You and your wife are not 'connecting' the way you want. You're missing some intimacy and closeness with her and it seems she's pushing you away on some level.

 

Keep talking to her, let her know HOW it makes you feel when .... (you fill in the blanks) and tell her some of your needs are not being met by her. Ask her if any of her needs aren't being met by you.

 

Sometimes life gets into such a routine, it's easy for just slip into a pattern - So maybe it's time to shake things up abit! Grab her and just have some fun! Go out on a 'date' and fool around in the car!

Bring back that passion and fun!

 

 

Right on, Whichway!!!!

[Trimmer]

As far as the OP, the post itself WAS about romance novels and were they comparable to 'porn'.

Fair enough, but I notice his comments have been about how he is using porn to make a point with her about her romance novels, how he has needs (that apparently aren't being met?) how she "never cares" about his feelings, and how she makes comments like "I bet you would think it would smell better on someone else..." when he suggested a perfume that he thought would be nice on her. My suggestion (and you are correct that this is tangential to his original direct question...) is that he is misdirecting his energy if his main focus is strictly on the porn vs. romance novel issue, and there may be some other more fundamental things going on in this relationship that need attention.

[Trimmer]

Women in porn are real, and therefore, men compare and contrast.

It's true. Ever since I saw that picture of Rachel Ray in the gingham skirt and black bra in catgirl's avatar, I haven't wanted my turkey done any other way. I'm a guy; she was real. Sorry.

[crazy_grl]

Like others have said, I get the impression your relationship has some pretty big communication issues. By comparing her books to porn and making this an issue about a double standard instead of addressing your real problem with her book, you're probably making it look like you're just making a big deal out of this so that you can look at porn.

 

You have to talk to her. Doing things like looking at a lingerie catalog is likely to just cause fighting.

 

I also asked her to buy some longeria and she said i should have to be the one who buys it or that she looked and she didn't find anything she liked . Isn't it soposto be what i like sometimes? I give up. It's all about her.

 

From what you've said it sounds like your perception of how romatic you are might be a little off. Your example doesn't sound romantic to me. If I'm reading you right, you asked her to buy herself lingerie. That's not being romantic. That's requesting her to be romantic for you. IMO, it would be more romantic of you for you to buy it for her.

 

Your other example about saying the perfume smells good on her is a little better but still not drastically romantic.

 

It's possible that your wife's reading these novels because she doesn't feel like she's getting romance from you. You think you're giving her romance, but your idea of what that is is vastly different than hers. This is leading you both to feel resentful and unwanted.

 

I suggest you talk to your wife about what's really bothering you. If you can't do that, visit a marriage counselor.

[husband]

First off. Yes i have been very romantic she has told me so. But you know what. It's very hard to be the one who has to do or buy everything and yes she knows how i feel. Mabye just mabye it's because she doesn't have to try. I'm not boasting but she has commented that i fulfill her needs well, that i'm everything she could ever ask for and she is well satisfied in this marrage i fulfill all her needs, I work like hell and i'm a good father. I do anything she asks. I am not a couch potato. Well I think she is just content because i spoil her(with love and by doing anything she wants which is mostly work). I am the one who goes the extra mile. She takes it all in stride she accepts everything willing but never tries to recipicate. She told me once that she might be taking me too much for granted and i said ithat i feel the same way.But did it make her change. I'm afraid not. Buy the way it really sucks to have to ask someone to suprise or to be romanitc. I thought it came naturally. Heck if you guys didn't know i was a man you would think you would think that i was a woman talking about her man(you know like i do everything and he does nothing or that i beg and he don't care). I asked her why she wouldn't go the extra mile for me you know like buying something sexy or go out of her way and she said she just don't know. We have an outlet outside that doesn't work. I was pretty busy and didn't get to it right away. She ran to the store on 3 different occasions to hurry up and get a replacement. It was top priority for her because without it she couldn't show off her pretty outside lights. She showed such urgency that we could of had 10" of snow on the ground and she still would of went like someone who couldn't rest until it was replaced and no she didn't nag me to do it then get fustrated because i didn't. She knew i was busy. well i wish i was that outlet. No i don't resent working. Finally for the last time.I AM NOT USING THIS AS A JUSTIFICATION FOR ME TO LOOK AT PORN PEROID. THE REASON I WANTED THE MAGAZEENE WAS TO SHOW HER WHAT IT FEELS LIKE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MODELS WEARING LINGERIE SOMETHING SHE WONT BUY. To be honest with you all sometimes i feel like just leaving.

[Flyin in Clouds]

... Why then cant i get a magazean with pictures(something she forbids).Isn't it the same thing? ... It's like a double standard. She can read about it but yet i'm not aloud to look at it.

 

Hey buddy grow a pair and put your foot down. It's your house... She forbids you? Get real. Forbid her to read any more novels... and tell her to get on her knees. .... forbids you? What's her problem? She's afraid of the competition?

 

 

I agree there is something wrong with the basic relationship. The problem is the wife thinks she has a right to control her husband, while he has no right to control her, as in bend over honey...

 

when she replied about your perfume comment "I bet you would think it would smell better on someone else..."

Is that a red flag? Yes, the wife is crazy...

 

now that's similar to something my wife said. We were in France (of all places) and we walked by a lingerie store and I point to something in the window, a picture of this lacy bra thinggy, and said something about it - that's hot. She was pissed. She said I was just thinking about the model.

 

Then I was pissed. I thought, "No you dumb bitch I was thinking what you would look like wearing that, and I'd like to see you in it... " Women can be so dense at times.

 

And that's another fundamental different between men and women. Women want these elaborate "romance" novels... graphics and all. The emotional thing... While men just want to see naked women and get laid...

 

nobody has answered my question. Is her reading these books a form of porn?

Yes. Romance novels are female porn. Same purpose. Same thing. Fantasy land.

 

Is the romance part in the books that women like to read about and like to imagine themselves in that girls postion in the book their reading.

And would that be the missionary position, doggie or some other? And isn't that fantasy just as much cheating as a guy looking at a picture and thinking about doing it with that woman?

 

If porn was sweet and romantic and not degrading or objectizing (is that even a word?) women then I wouldn't mind if my husband jacked to porn.

Oh, so it has to be the way you women like it... not the way we men might like it.... WTF?

 

Hey, you're an object. We just like to use you every now and then... geez... And you know what, there are women that like to be used, every so often. They like it that way. Not always sickly syrupy sweet, but a little rough.

 

I think the main problem women have with porn is that it makes women look like tools and those guys who use porn alot normally have expectations that the woman might not be comfortable with.

Aw, poor babies... and those women that use romance novels a lot normally have expectations that the men might not be comfortable with... all that sickening romance stuff... get me a beer bitch.

 

I've told him that I'm not going to stop him from looking at it (because of the guilt the men on this message board have made me feel) he is understanding enough to not want to hurt me and has stayed away from it. This has increased the intensity of our sex life immensely. He is always rearin' to go, and I am feeling incredibly desired and loved

The reason he's "rearin' to go" is because he's deprived... He'd bang anything that wiggled. It isn't because you're so speical... It's because a real live woman is better than a picture any day and particularly if you haven't even seen any pictures for a while.

 

Something about a hand in the bush is worth a 1000 words...

 

A lot of wives have posted here because they feel that porn is disproportionately cutting into their relationships and taking over their sex lives in a way they aren't comfortable with.

Then be the porn star. Good girls don't do that kind of stuff? Yeah, that's why men go to whores, mistresses or view porn... If you women aren't your husbands favorite porn star then what are you?

 

The OP should focus on why his wife is so resentful of him and work on solving that problem.

The OP's wife is resentful because he's not that dusty cowboy with the husky voice that just road in off the trail, looking for some tail... that she keeps fantasizing about reading all those novels.

 

There is some pretty awful crap out there though that I find offensive.

Yeah, some of the photography is blurry and the lighting is poor. The technical direction is just plain lousy and the scripts... well, hire some writers for Pete's sake. Oh, you meant the sex was offensive...

 

if his main focus is strictly on the porn vs. romance novel issue, and there may be some other more fundamental things going on in this relationship that need attention.

You bet... the main problem is letting his wife push him around. Grab her, throw her on the bed and say honey tonight were having monkey sex the way I want it, like I saw in this porn flick... Now bend just a little more this way.. that's it.. :p:laugh:

 

you asked her to buy herself lingerie. That's not being romantic. That's requesting her to be romantic for you. IMO, it would be more romantic of you for you to buy it for her.

The things is I buy my wife the lingerie I'd like her to wear and she ignores it. And what I really want is her to go to Vicotria Secret and pickout something she thinks would turn me on, to show me that she actually cares about turning me on... I'd like her to take some initiative. But I guess all she thinks is I'm really thinking of the V.S. runway models if she's wearing anything sexy at all. argggg...

[catgirl1927]

Well thank God we have catgirl to let us know what all women and all men think.

 

 

 

OK. Fine. I'm always dinging people for saying "all women do this" or "all men do that," and there, I did it myself.

 

Honestly, the key difference in my mind between a romance novel and porn is that romance novels are so poorly written, so transparent and silly that they are not titillating at all.

[a4a]

hummmm.......

 

I wonder if it would be like comparing a soft porn romantic movie to reg porn flicks?

 

 

Maybe the OP should start reading romance novels too. I have never read one but don't they have parts about : heaving bosoms, his hardness entered her, and she felt the warmth of him spill into her?

 

Now what if she started looking at pic of naked guys more like a reg. porn mag...... maybe the OP needs to give her one of these? A playgirl mag.

 

OP how would you feel if she were looking at those vs. reading romance novels?

 

Just curious if that would actually bother you more?

[tanbark813]

Honestly, the key difference in my mind between a romance novel and porn is that romance novels are so poorly written, so transparent and silly that they are not titillating at all.

 

Maybe for you, but if the OP's wife weren't getting anything out of them then she wouldn't be reading them.

[blind_otter]

but porn isn't merely stimulating - it's also using real people. i am putting the case that the wife may object to the man looking at real women and getting turned on. or she may object to porn per se because it objectifies real women.

 

See, I don't view porn this way. IMO everyone is informed (for the most part, I'm not talking about fetishistic porn here) -- and are choosing to engage in that act publiclyfor whatever reason. If the individuals involved don't wish to engage in the acts they have the power to change their lifestyle. I dunno how much you can object to someone voluntarily objectifying themselves.

 

Read some Tracy Quan. She has an interesting perspective, and if all else fails, she is a good writer.

[crazy_grl]

Honestly, the key difference in my mind between a romance novel and porn is that romance novels are so poorly written, so transparent and silly that they are not titillating at all.

 

That's the key difference? I thought that's what they had in common.

 

On a somewhat related note, has anybody read any explicit fiction on the internet? That stuff can be pretty d*mn good, and there's all kinds. I don't' like romance novels or porn, but I love that stuff. I guess maybe it falls somewhere in between the two, because it's not sweet and sappy (at least not what I read) but it's not too graphic or explotative either. And there's plenty of short stories that can be fun to read to your guy.