Ex's behavior (before and after divorce)

[Grace68]

My story is long, so I'll try and keep this brief. I was married for 16 years and have two children. My exhusband announced one day that he wasn't happy anymore and needed space. He actually stayed for 6 months and I gave 110% of myself trying to make him happy. He said he just couldn't take the stress/pressures from work, me, the kids, etc. During that time he went to Hawaii for a week with his sisters because he said he desperately needed a break. He also spent a huge amount of money that the kids and I needed to pay bills, food, etc. It was during this vacation that he took his wedding ring off for the first time since we exchanged vows. His reasoning was that it was just a physical symbol and didn't really mean anything.

 

About a month after that I found emails from him to another girl that he'd been corresponding with for a couple of YEARS. He said he loved her and hoped she'd be waiting for him after his divorce went through. She lives about 2 hours away and they met a few times. They didn't have sex because I saw emails from her that kept telling him it was wrong, he was married, they couldn't until he was divorced, etc. I confronted him with the emails and ended up slapping the cr** out of him (the first time I'd ever shown any sort of violence towards him). He moved out the next day saying he was afraid I might physically hurt him. Ummm okay, I'm 5'3 and he's 6'4 and he has a good 75 pounds on me. Anyway, I sent his girlfriend an email telling her she could have him and that I hoped she was happy she had broken up our family. She didn't respond and started ignoring him as well. He even had the audacity to ask me to email her and apologize! For what?!

 

Anyway, that ended and he filed for divorce a month later. I kept telling him to move back home and that we should go for counseling. He refused and our divorce moved forward. Two months after he filed I had a very brief fling with a married man. We were together twice. My ex found out about it and hit the roof. He still brings it up to this day everytime we have an argument. I don't get it---he had online girlfriends for 9 years of our marriage. He emailed them, talked to them on the phone, had phone sex with them, etc. I forgave him every single time and the one time I'm with someone else, he goes nuts.

 

Our divorce was final in February. Since that time I've asked him to go to counseling and come back home on a few occasions. He still refuses. However, anytime I do something or say something that makes him mad he'll send me a text message that says, "Until you said/did that I was actually thinking about getting back together."

 

I've done my best to move on with my life. Most of my time is spent raising my children. He lives in an apartment close to his work and uses the excuse that he's too far away (25 miles) to see the kids for his weekly Wednesday visit. He does take the kids on his weekends, but he doesn't call them in between. He has a Myspace page and belongs to all the online dating services. I've run across them on occasion and it hurts like hell. I've gone out on a few dates, but nothing serious.

 

Anyway, we had a huge argument last Sunday. I confronted him about living far away from the kids, his not calling them, and his dropping them off on the weekends as soon as he gets tired of them. He immediately went off on this tirade about how he works 110 hour work weeks to pay child support, I cheated on him with a married man, I got the house in our divorce, I've lied to him (?), etc. None of that was related to the kids, so I have no idea where that came from! I ended up calling him an a**hole and slammed the door on him. I sent him a text on Wednesday of this week telling him I was sorry for calling him that, but he'd upset me when he verbally attacked me. All I wanted was to talk about the kids.

 

So, that's where things are at the moment. Does anyone have any insight about this? Or anything to say that might make me feel better?

[Gunny376]

You're legally divorce ~ but you've yet to emotionally divorce him.

 

Per Dr. Phil ~ the time to get divorce is when any and all issues from the marriage have been resolved. Since he won't go to marriage counseling with you ~ you should consider IC so that you can reach the point to where you're mentally, emotionally divorce from this characther.

[amaysngrace]

I agree with Gunny. You are still very emotional when dealing with this man.

 

He's your EXhusband. You two are divorced. You can expect him to be rude to you if you bash him for his shortcomings on fathering the children. He doesn't need to hear it from you anymore. He's your EX. Not your husband.

 

It sounds as if you have hope you will be back with him and are wishing for this to be so. Give it up. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but truly, it's the best thing you can do for yourself and your children.

 

If your children sense there is hope for a reconciliation they will never except the true reality, and it can cause emotional scarring in them.

 

Please put the children's well-being and your own into proper order here.

 

He isn't coming back.

[Grace68]

I've been in therapy for several months now. I think my head knows he's not coming back, but my heart hasn't reached that point yet. It's hard when he plays mind games with me and it's also hard when he still has all his mail coming to my house and refuses to forward it. He also refuses to give me the deed of trust to the house and his name is still currently on the loan. I can't figure that one out---if anyone pulls his credit it looks as if he has a huge mortgage plus the rent on his apartment.

 

You know, maybe you guys are right. He's my ex-husband and I don't have to tell him about his reponsibilities with the kids. If he doesn't call the kids and doesn't see them during the week, that's just stress-free time for me since I don't have to deal with him!

 

Kudos to me---I haven't asked him since July 4th to go to counseling or move back home. I'm going to try and initiate NC as much as possible. I should have all the power---not him.

[amaysngrace]

I should have all the power---not him.

 

Yes you should. And every time you feel the urge to pick up the phone to call him, don't.

 

You need to accept what is. Every time you call him you are staying stuck in your thinking and your growth. What good is a bad experience such as divorce if you never grow from it?

 

Use this opportunity to re-discover who you are. Try to stay focused on what he brought into your life, rather than what he took away from it. And YES, he took from you. He took much more from you than I would give to another. But that is all water under the bridge at this point.

 

If he is rude to you and acts as if he hates you, so be it. From what you say, you are the one who should be hating on him. But don't. Don't you dare lower yourself to where he is. Be better than him. You have all along, right? Why stop now and compromise the best of you?

 

I understand it's tough right now while you're going through this. But in the end, you will see that the way he disrespected you and deceived you was so far from the way you deserve to be treated, you will be thankful for the day he left.

 

Because it may well be the nicest thing he ever did for you.

[Gunny376]

An affair is and affair is and affair ~ be it an actual physical one ~ or an emotional one ~ there is no different. An ******* is an ******* ~ you can dress it up, try to make it look pretty ~ but no matter what you do ~ its an *******.

 

He's trying to get to you about your affair and make you feel guilty ~ so he can justify his in his own mind. With the children, he's the one that's losing ground with them and its not your responsibility to make him meet his responsibilities. As a matter of fact his business is his business and none of yours, and you've no more right to interfer with it than you do mine. Nor I yours. If he want to trip up his credit ~ let him. In so long as he's not tripping up yours, (You have of course gotten a recent copy of credit reports, haven't you?)

 

You not he hold the keys to set you free. And, its as simple as waking up tomorrow morning and un-locking the chains that bind you. What you shoulld be doing right now, and concentrating on is putting yourself back together, and re-claiming your life. Simplify and de-stress your life as much as possible and then keep it that way.

 

Now is an outstanding time for you to get completely out of debt and get off of the credit card roller coaster ~ dependency. I highly recommend Dave Ramesy "Total Money Makeover" and Mary Hunts, Debt Proof Liviing. Now is also the time to do the things that you've always wanted to do and were interested in.

 

He works 100 hours a week to pay child support? Living in an apartment? Cry me a river! He brought this on himself.

 

What your doing is your beating yourself up for your sins of the marriage. News Flash for you, he's not without his sins either. You were only one half of a two part partnership. It takes two to make it and only one to break it. And that wasn't you. So you need to cut yourself some slack.

 

If this guy is looking for sympathy from you ~ I'd give him a dictrioary and tell him that's the only place he's going to find it because he sure as Hell is going to get it from me.

[Lor]

I have to argue one point--when it comes to the raising of the children and his lack of emotional support to them, she has a right to bring it up to him to try and discuss it. all you can do is point out to him that his not seeing the kids is detrimental to his relationship with them. And that's it--nothing else. after that it's up to him.

 

all you have to do at this point when you talk to him is to remember that you aren't married to him anymore. therefore, you don't have to take the BS. if he starts in on you for past transgressions or whatever, calmly tell him that and hang up.

[amaysngrace]

I have to argue one point--when it comes to the raising of the children and his lack of emotional support to them, she has a right to bring it up to him to try and discuss it. all you can do is point out to him that his not seeing the kids is detrimental to his relationship with them. And that's it--nothing else. after that it's up to him.

 

all you have to do at this point when you talk to him is to remember that you aren't married to him anymore. therefore, you don't have to take the BS. if he starts in on you for past transgressions or whatever, calmly tell him that and hang up.

 

 

I agree with you, Lor. But she needs to break from him emotionally before she can even rationally approach him with this, don't cha think? Otherwise, he's just going to be defensive most likely. Because her approach is probably not as good as if she was just acting as a mom...nothing more. She's yet to get there.

 

Which leads me to believe she's the one antagonizing the situation here.

[Lor]

yes and no.... she's reacting to his actions also. she does need to pull back and realize that they are divorced, and emotionally she needs to let go. but that doesn't give him a right to rake her over the coals about her past deeds anytime he doesn't like what she says.

 

She does have a right to stand up for the kids, to point out to him that what he is doing is wrong. But once her peace has been said, then that is the end of it. You can't make him see the kids or call. So, that said, Grace, you've done your duty, now drop it and don't call for anything but activities or schedules, and then keep it short and to the point only.

[dgiirl]

Woah, two months after HE files for a divorce, and after he has an emotional affair with someone, you have a fling, and he has the audacity to rub that in your face and call it an affair? Damn, he's just playing with semantics and you're allowing him to make you feel guilty. Fact of the matter, he was NOT acting like your husband. He was actually working towards ENDING your marriage. Did he give you any indication that reconcilation was possible? Did you two agree not to see anyone during your separation? Unless any of that was true, he has no leg to stand on. Sure, perhaps having an affair with a married man was not the best decision you could have made, and perhaps you have guilt over that, but DO NOT mix that guilt with guilt about your own marriage. They are absolutely two separate situations, and he's simply taking advantage of the situation so he can escape his own blame.

 

As for communicating with your ex, you need to implement some kind of system where you two only discuss what needs to be discussed. Treat him like a business partner. There are no emotions in business. My divorce was negotiated with my ex via email. Yes, things got heated, but before responding in the heat of the moment, I tried my best to take some time out. There were times where I did not respond to an email until days later. It gave me time to collect my thoughts and talk to him rationally than getting caught up in emotions. It's slightly cold, but it's the best method for communicating right now, because anything else seems to not be productive. As for mail, do you have all the bills in your name? I assume that since you two are divorced now, that everything's been cleanly separated. If not, get it done. If so, if all of the mail coming for him is for him personally, has no bearing on you or your credit, then tell him he has two weeks to go to the post office and set up a forward. After that, all mail that comes to the house in his name is getting marked as "moved" and put back into the mail. It'll get returned to sender and he'll have even more hassles to deal with. I guarantee you he'll get the mail forwarded. If not, it's not your problem.

 

As everyone already stated, you are now his ex-wife. You have to start thinking of it that way. You dont have the privilege or honour to hound him to stick to his responsibilities unless it affects you personally. It's not your responsibility to remind him, and it's definitely not your responsibility to get angry with him for not doing what needs to be done. Would you get angry with a stranger or neighbour the same way you are getting angry with your exh?

 

Now's the time you need to start focusing more on YOU than on him. Everytime you see yourself thinking about him, you have to actively refocus your thoughts onto you. It's hard in the beginning, but the more you practice, the easier it gets.

[Trimmer]

i agree with dgiirl. The other thing that struck me: even after the divorce is final, you were still asking him to come back and go to counseling, etc., and he refuses. Of course he does; he is gone. But that doesn't prevent him from using that against you by saying "Until you said/did that I was actually thinking about getting back together." I think this is probably baloney at best, and vicious and mean, too, as he knows it plays into your desire to get back together, so he uses it as a verbal weapon against you.

 

Once he realizes that you have picked up yourself and moved on, he loses that power over you. Once you move on, you stop giving him that power.

 

I've given this advice a lot, and it's similar to what dgiirl and Lor have said above, but I found that when I separated my wife into her different 'characters', and I realized which one I was dealing with at any given time, and worked with that character ONLY, it helped me a lot. She was my wife (where most of our controversy was), she was our kids parent, and she was a business partner in our finances and real estate. Once I accepted that the wife was gone, I worked really hard at not bringing husband/wife dynamics into our dealings as parents and business partners. When we discussed the kids she was "parent" so I kept all the other stuff out of that. When we discussed selling the house, she was "business partner" and I kept it cool and businesslike - all about the deal, with the goal to benefit us both. As soon as I was tempted to throw a barb about the divorce or the affair or her leaving me or whatever, I quickly reminded myself that that was "wife" talk, and that the wife didn't exist any more.

 

Think of what parts of your arguments with him are "husband/wife" things that really shouldn't be on the table any more, and put those things away. They are now a part of your past.

 

Also, I agree about the mail - go down to your post office once to make sure they know that stuff for your name gets delivered, and stuff for his name should be returned, then start marking his stuff "Moved" and send it back.

 

Incidentally, about the house deed - was it stipulated in your divorce decree and/or the property settlement that the house was to become yours? If so, and he is refusing to abide by that agreement, isn't he in contempt of court or something like that? I'd run that by your lawyer, just to find out if they can whip off a letter or something like that... Remember - here he is a business partner - or business adversary, I guess - but either way keep it very businesslike, no husband/wife stuff; refuse to engage in that kind of stuff, even if he brings it up. This is just about finishing the paperwork on a deal that has already been agreed upon.

[Grace68]

Wow---thanks for all the responses. My computer goes down for a day and look at all I've missed!

 

I do not call or email my ex---the only time we talk is when he drops/picks up the kids. Our argument last Sunday was at the house. Yes, I picked that fight, but it was because I'd had it with him. He's supposed to have the kids from 6 pm Friday to 6 pm Sunday. He never picks or drops them off at the same time which absolutely drives me crazy. Some Fridays he picks them up as early as 4 pm, and the latest he's ever kept them on Sundays is 3 pm. I never know if I should make plans or not because I never know when they'll be coming home. Last Sunday the kids called at 12:45 from my doorstep wondering where I was. I was at lunch with a friend from church. So, I basically had to gobble down my food and race home to meet them. Yes, I could have told them sorry, dad has you until 6, but I was afraid he'd leave them alone in the front yard or better yet take it out on them. He has terrible issues with anger and I didn't want him exploding in front of them or for the entire neighborhood to see.

 

Yes, he's in violation of our decree in several areas. I've talked to my lawyer, but she told me it would cost me about $2000 to take him back to court. Unfortunately, I won't have that kind of money until I get a tax refund sometime next year.

 

All our bills have been transferred over into my name except for satellite. He refuses to call and cancel it---I've asked him numerous times and he always "forgets". My mortgage still has him listed on the loan, so anything they send me, payment book, escrow refund, etc., would go straight to him if he had his mail forwarded. Knowing him, he'd cash that refund check even though the house was given to me in the divorce. I'm almost glad he hasn't forwarded his mail for that reason---it's just irritating having a pile of his junkmail sitting on my kitchen counter.

 

I've checked my credit. Nothing weird is going on and only my one dinky credit card is on there showing any recent activity. I try to check it every few months.

 

As for asking him to get back together, I think I asked him twice pre divorce and twice after. The only reason I did after the divorce is because we were starting to do things as a family again (lunch, dinner, movies, shopping at the mall, we went to a baseball game, etc.). We were also getting along really well. That won't happen again.

 

The longer he's gone makes me realize that he'll never change. A small part of me will always wish things could have worked out, because we did have some good times, but he just had to be stupid and mess it all up.

[amaysngrace]

My ex does this too, Grace. We have no arrangements carved in stone, as our agreement states "visitation will be liberal and decided upon by both parties" but it's usually Sat. nights. Recently, he called Thursday night to ask can he have them Friday night. "Sure" I said. While I could have gotten pissy about it because of such short notice, I didn't.

 

This past weekend he bailed on them completely. They had a four day weekend and he didn't see them at all. I didn't complain. But ya know what? He called me last Monday to tell me. His words were "I figured I'd call you as early as possible to let you know".

 

Um...whatever.

 

Whatever he does, it doesn't bother me. He can't get a rise out of me. He can change plans last minute, no worries. He can bail, no worries. He can stop with support, no worries. Although I do have that set up through probation so he'll have some worries.

 

But basically I've adopted the attitude that whatever he does isn't going to affect me one way or the other. And he knows it too. And now that he knows it, he has really stopped trying to mess with me anymore. It's pointless for him to do so.

 

If you have to, suck it up for a time. He may tick you off with an action or a comment, expecting a rise out of you. Remain neutral. Act indifferent. Be pleasant, even. Trust me, your reaction will change his future actions and comments.

 

It's really a great feeling to have control over your own thoughts and emotions. And darlin', day by day, you'll get there.

[Trimmer]

Short of taking it back to court, would your lawyer write off a letter, "reminding" him in layman's terms of the details of your divorce, and laying out specific actions to take and a timetable to do them (e.g. 30 or 60 days to get the deed signed over, etc...) If you suddenly get all cool and businesslike, do you think that would have any effect on him?

 

Make sure you have educated yourself on what it will take logistically to get the deed signed over. That part may be simple (look at a process called a "quit claim"), but to get him off the mortgage, you may have to refinance, as mortgage companies don't easily let someone off the hook (e.g. letting him out of the mortgage obligation) without requalifying whoever is left...

 

On the satellite bill, call them up and ask them to cancel it. If they won't do it initially, explain that the person who is responsible has moved from the service address and refuses to cooperate. Offer to show them a copy of the divorce decree, if needed. Be cooperative, but gently refuse to take "no" for an answer. When confronted with a "no" in those types of situations, I use the phrase, "well OK then, how do we handle this?" and just keep plugging away at them. Basically they have a customer who has moved from the service address and refuses to pay, and you are giving them a way to cut their losses. If they claim you are still responsible for the bill, then BINGO, you've got them, because they can't hold you responsible for the bill, without giving you the right to cancel it.

 

For the mortgage company, see if they will change your "Mailing" address to show your name first (or only) - this is different from changing the mortgagee: I'm only talking about the mailing address. I don't know if they would do that, but if they would, then your mortgage would be more secure (you would be more sure you would get the statements, escrow refunds, etc...) and you could go ahead with the forwarding thing for his mail.

 

Be clever, take charge. Maybe you can figure out workarounds for some of these.

 

The kids thing sucks. The thing that bugs me about him dropping the kids off early without warning is less the fact that he's acting like an a**hole (which you already knew), but more the message he's sending them - whether he's using them consciously to irritate you, or whether he just doesn't care about his time with them. Either way, kids "get it", and that's sad. All you can do is to treasure your time with them, let them know they are important in your life, and don't trash talk him in front of them, to them, around them... because that puts them back in the middle of the battle zone. You can be their safe harbor.