If you do all this then why?

[PWSX3]

This is kind in the same lines as the thread Gunny started. I use my situation as an example because that is the one I'm working on and I don't have all the answers but I'm learning;

Here are a few things I have done for my wife in the past. Most were dates because for some reason after we went to the counselor that is what I thought was important to the W and I focussed on that.

 

invited her to a hockey game, I didn't use a card I used a cake that looked like a hockey rink with the invite on it along with the tickets. (she likes hockey)

made a scrap book for our 25th anniversary

surprised her with a trip to Vegas for another anniversary

Given her flowers for no reason

Have taken her to dinner theaters

Had a quartet sing for her for Valentines

music concerts

I am learning it has a lot to do with the emotional needs of a woman but these are things that we spent time together so I would think they are emotinal things.

In my case she never would stand up for herself so how did I suppose to know when there were things that bothered her? I read that often here where one person didn't see it coming or they didn't know the other person wanted something different.

I know communication is very important but listening seems to be even more important.

So is it the way one person says it to the other or are they just so used to not listening they don't hear what he other person is saying?

[Lor]

All of the things you list are great and i'm sure made an impression. What you have to realize is that, while right now you are focusing on the good things you did for her in your M, she doesn't remember them or can't think of them right now. She is caught up in only thinking of the bad parts, not the good.

 

If you talk to her, you can bring these things up that you did, with comments like Remember when...... not but I did these things for you! That will help to remind her that not everything was negative, that there were some positives. And keep working on yourself--you've come so far already!!

[a4a]

Oh P those are some things that I think I would so appreciate

 

But Lor is right. And you are looking at things like this: I did all these things for her and she still left......

 

Think about the things you also did to hurt her. Not from your point of view but from hers. Honestly if my H ever pulled or said some of the things you say you have to her I would have left you long ago. But that is me, I am not your wife with her history.

 

If I said you were a big fat retard lazy worthless snotface and you need to tell me right now what you plan to cook for dinner.... a invite to a hockey game won't make up for that would it..... I mean would a BJ every night for a week even make up for that? I am not saying you said these things BTW just giving an example so maybe you get the point.

 

Maybe too many withdrawls from the love tank and then made up for in a manner that could not undo those withdrawls?

 

Your W certainly is not a good communicator at all. Perhaps a product of her history. So looks like you see this but she still does not?

 

Honestly if she would have stood up to you and said " I will not tolerate this treatment from you" long ago; do you think you would be apart right now, or maybe have had a better chance if she would have communicated clearly that you were hurting her?

 

IMHO you both messed up because of really bad communication.

You said too many wrong things and she said nothing at all.

[PWSX3]

What both of you say are correct and that is what I'm trying to learn. I can see where she wouldn't meet my need (or me being selfish my wants) so then I would treat her bad in return and we went round and round. I would not initiate things hoping she would be the one that would, but I guess she didn't iniate them then because she thought I was mad at her.

I know I said bad things to her and what I'm trying to learn is "why" did I do them to her but I wouldn't do them to others? Just like you said other people saw what I did for her as me being a great H but she didn't because of all the bad things I had done.

Yes I have learned a lot but I still haven't learned why and until I can understand that none of what I have learned will help me.

 

I don't know when we go see the counselor but it looks like she isn't going to talk to me until then so I don't know when we will talk again.

 

On a positive note for me working on myself that I would like to share because I am proud of what I've done; I've been walking and riding my bike to kill some time, and it is a good time to think, plus get in a little better shape and I've lost 22 pounds.

[a4a]

Could be quite a few reason why you did those things

 

learned behavior by example (r0le models)

you expressed your hurt in that manner (poor communication)

you were afraid to admit that maybe you were wrong.

 

I think it is great you are looking at why...... the most important thing to do so you can say I know when this happens then I react like this, I recognize it and will do my best to change my reaction to a more positive one. But unlike my H you have to actually execute the part about changing your reaction.

 

So awesome 22lbs huh! Good for you!!

[Lor]

part of the why is because you could and she'd take it. You used her like an emotional punching bag, taking your daily life frustrations out on the one person that you could control. You can't turn to the grocery clerk who's screwed up your change and start berating her--unacceptable social behavior, so you'd bring that home to your wife and take it out on her. I used to do the same thing to my H--he was my proverbial punching bag and I took it for granted that he was willing to stand there and take it.

 

We always hurt the ones we love most, and I think its because we figure that the love is unconditional, yet we tend to forget that its not.

 

Hopefully she will start talking to you again after the month of waiting is up. Good for you that you've given her this time and have worked so hard on yourself while you're waiting. 22 lbs is great, so is your new attitude and I'd love to be a fly on the wall when she sees and talks to you next. It'll be like seeing you for the first time.

[PWSX3]

At first I didn't want the separation but I am starting to see things a lot different now thanks to everyone here.

 

I was all excited to see the counselor on the 28th but I have left a message for our counselor that says; I want to see her before we see each other.

At first I was in a hurry to try and get back together but I have changed my mind and it is going to be a while.

I need to get to know myself a LOT BETTER before we even start to work on us again.

 

Lor I'll make sure and let you know what happens when we do see each other for the first time again and I'll make sure to use the"remember when" instead of the "but I did these things for you".

[dgiirl]

I was all excited to see the counselor on the 28th but I have left a message for our counselor that says; I want to see her before we see each other.

At first I was in a hurry to try and get back together but I have changed my mind and it is going to be a while.

I need to get to know myself a LOT BETTER before we even start to work on us again.

 

That is awesome P! I'm really glad to hear you did this.

[PWSX3]

But yah, relationships are hard. Because he did this, I did that. Because I did that, he did this. We fed off each other and that's why fault is never one-sided. That's why I commend a4a for what she's doing. She's connecting the dots very clearly for her husband. I wish I had the knowledge to do that during my marriage. I wish my exh had too.

 

I just copied this from that other thread that got closed but I agree.

What I need to learn is when it gets that way to stop the he did she did thing before it gets to far and part of it might be taken responsibility for some of it.

I know someplace I read that you should pick your fights wisely and don't ? ? (can't remember it) over the little stuff.

As for a4a I wish my W could spend a few months with her just to get enough of the stand up for herself to rub off. I don't know if I could handle much more to rub off but I would like to have the W stand up more often at least I would know where I stood.

Dgiirl, at least when you and a4a and the other ladies get finished with me in here I should be a lot smarter and the one thing I'm not like most guys I WILL stop for directions, I'm welling to stop and learn whatever I can because if it doesn't work for me and the W I need it for my next relationship whoever that might be.

[Gunny376]

Hey! Yo! Bro!

 

I reallize we're herding "cats" here, but we need to hold up! Pull back on the "ponies"

 

You're "self flaggulating" yourself!

 

STOP THAT!

[PWSX3]

Hey! Yo! Bro!

 

I reallize we're herding "cats" here, but we need to hold up! Pull back on the "ponies"

 

You're "self flaggulating" yourself!

 

STOP THAT!

Gunny, I'm just a meat and potatoes kind of guy you are using words way over my head!!!!!

I looked it up and I think it means whimp.

 

Don't you agree if you are fighting a war it's better to know how the enemy thinks and acts?

I figure it this way the more I can understand and learn from the ladies the less chances are I'll say or do something stupid towards my W or another woman. Sure I know about the time you start figuring them out they change the rules but I'll just have to adjust as well.

[ilmw]

Hey! Yo! Bro!

 

I reallize we're herding "cats" here, but we need to hold up! Pull back on the "ponies"

 

You're "self flaggulating" yourself!

 

STOP THAT!

 

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: WTF did you say:laugh: ????

[Gunny376]

Gunny, I'm just a meat and potatoes kind of guy you are using words way over my head!!!!!

I looked it up and I think it means whimp.

 

Don't you agree if you are fighting a war it's better to know how the enemy thinks and acts?

I figure it this way the more I can understand and learn from the ladies the less chances are I'll say or do something stupid towards my W or another woman. Sure I know about the time you start figuring them out they change the rules but I'll just have to adjust as well.

 

I might have used the wrong word ~ or spelled it wrong (I'm a lousy speller) but the word I was looking for was when Catholic monks used to whip themselves with whips, i.e. beating yourself up. By no means was I calling you a whimp.

 

In my honest opinion, no man is really a man until he's had his heart ripped out of his chest, stomped on, broken into, kicked to the curb through the mud, the blood, and the hog manure, and has had his life torn apart,...................you survive all of that ****E ~ your a MAN!

[Gunny376]

flagellate 1.to whip; scourge; flog; lash.

[Gunny376]

 

Don't you agree if you are fighting a war it's better to know how the enemy thinks and acts?

 

I figure it this way the more I can understand and learn from the ladies the less chances are I'll say or do something stupid towards my W or another woman. Sure I know about the time you start figuring them out they change the rules but I'll just have to adjust as well.

 

Once I got back out here in civilian la~la land, I got some good advice. "Don't try and figure out what the "suits" are up to, you'll drive yourself crazy!" Seems to me the same applies to women. Trying to figure out women is worse than trying to ride herd on cats.

 

The reason men can't understand women, is because women don't understand women. Even the great Sigmund Freud said he would never understand women. And he spent a lifetime studying them.

[PWSX3]

I might have used the wrong word ~ or spelled it wrong (I'm a lousy speller)

Well you are one up on me, I can't spell either nor can I understand those "BIG A$$" words you use sometimes. :lmao:

 

You know what It feels good to be able to joke & laugh again!!!!

[Mz. Pixie]

Oh P those are some things that I think I would so appreciate

 

But Lor is right. And you are looking at things like this: I did all these things for her and she still left......

 

Think about the things you also did to hurt her. Not from your point of view but from hers. Honestly if my H ever pulled or said some of the things you say you have to her I would have left you long ago. But that is me, I am not your wife with her history.

 

 

I agree with the girls here.

 

Have you ever considered that perhaps she didn't stand up for herself because she felt like she shouldn't have to??

 

That her husband should be the one person she should not have to protect herself from?? That he should be her "soft place to land"???

 

Honestly, it sounds like your wife tolerated alot from you and then finally left when the kids were grown and she was able to?? Does that seem correct to you?? I don't know your whole story...........

 

At any rate, even if you don't end up getting back with your wife perhaps you'll learn some good information to help you in other relationships down the line?

[Lor]

Basically in a nutshell I believe Gunny was trying to say that you keep beating yourself up over what you've done wrong and its time to stop that. You are full of guilt for helping where your M was, but you should be proud of yourself for where you are now. Knowing what you did wrong and correcting it is a long way towards fixing the problems.

 

As you can tell, us "girls" on here, and I'm sure the guys, are very proud of how far you've come in such a short time. :bunny: For many it takes years to reach where you are in your self-insight, and some never do find it.

 

yep, let us know how it goes. Remember, you can be a gentleman without being a tyrant. Let her do a lot of the talking the first time back to the counsellor....if you try to inject into everything and push about what strides you've made, you'll be overpowering her again, without even realizing it.

[PWSX3]

yep, let us know how it goes. Remember, you can be a gentleman without being a tyrant. Let her do a lot of the talking the first time back to the counsellor....if you try to inject into everything and push about what strides you've made, you'll be overpowering her again, without even realizing it.

I plan on seeing the counsoler by myself before the W and I go just so I can go over things with her that I have been working on. I don't want to do that in front of the W because like you said it will be showing off in her eyes. I have questions I want to ask and I still need to figure out some things as you mentioned for myself.

No I know there is fault in both of us but I can only work on mine and maybe that is why I'm so hard on myself, plus I'm a pretty competative type person, I know I can change and I know I WILL change. I look at it this way, the marriage me & the wife had is done that chapter is closed. Now I start over with a new chapter and if that will be with the W or someone else that is the one I need to work on and it doesn't matter who it is with I need to be smarter.

My son said he heard his mom talking to his best friends mom Friday and she told her she hasn't given up that she still plans on working on getting back together. That made my boy feel good.

After being on here I'm not in such a hurry anymore to start working on things together. I know I did bad things but I feel there are things she also needs to change, which I feel triggered how I reacted.

Thanks again for all the support & it helps to see other view points.

[Lor]

That's great to hear that she's still thinking of working to save the M, but don't get your hopes up too high on that. A lot can happen between now and then.

 

All I can say is Wow, P! You are a shining example of what can happen when someone's eyes are forced open!

[PWSX3]

I need to post this in my origanal post but thought I would let you know, our counsoler called me and I have an appointment this Thursday. I thought since she has been gone for a week that I wouldn't get in this quick. I'M EXCITED!!!