luvstarved Posted October 3, 2006 Posted October 3, 2006 It's me the former sexless lady who finally started getting some about 6 weeks ago...with an update and new question... OK so after I insisted on some sort of love life, there were initial performance problems (after 7 years of sexless marriage, maybe 10 times in 7 years)...then it seemed my H was back in the swing of things, although things were very un-intimate (always in the morning, he wakes up, wanks himself to hardness, gets it in, works it until I am satisfied, pulls out and jumps in shower - no talk after, no touching, looking, talking during - he's face down on pillow, head next to mine, does not touch ANY of me, has arms crossed more or less at the back of my head)...it has been the exact same every time. For the first threeweeks, it was every other morning like clockwork. Then the fourth and fifth week, he skipped a day, so three days in between. Now it has been four days in between and who knows what tomorrow will bring? During sexless phase, he was pretty much all masturbation. Once in a while a short look at porn but nothing big. And he seemed very disinterested in starting up with me again although he denied feeling that way. I have NOT brought up my new "dissatisfaction" with our "love life" for fear of sending things backwards. But I can't help but wonder WHY are things like this? We had a great sex life for the first two years we were together so WTF? When I have tried to do anything a little different, I get things like "you are pressuring me", "I'm not ready for that", "can't rush it", etc. and he tries to sort of turn the tables on me by saying I am demanding or not "affectionate" enough, that he got turned off to me because he was "angry" with me (about what I am not sure, we fought, but it was pretty equal). But he won't really give me solid reasons that make any sense. When I came home from a trip right before this started, he volunteered that he had seen porn while I was gone but that it "just showed up on the screen" I called him on it and he STILL LIED knowing that I knew 100% for sure that he had sought it out. Vehemently and indignantly, he LIED! THis one little incident brought me to the original discussion and I originally thought it was all about sex for me, but really it was the bald faced lying that has me down. It was so out of character for him that now I wonder who he is at all sexually or ethically, and has led me to worry about all sorts of things. It was NOT the porn that was the issue, it was the easy and persistent lying, even in the face of the truth. I mentioned one time about people who genuinely preferred masturbation and he said no sir, no such person. But the truth is, I wonder whether HE is that sort of person. I mean, isn't this very impersonal sex more or less masturbation? And wouldn't the fact that he was content to not have sex with me further evidence? I am sure he hasn't had any affair (yet, there is that situation with his coworker that worries me). I have told him over and over that I just want the TRUTH so we can deal with it already, but I always just get the sensitive guy whose wife was pressuring him routine, and I'm just not buying that any more. Does anyone else think that this sounds like he prefers masturbation? Any guys like this who can enlighten me? Any thoughts on my next move? Should I lay low and wait for the sex to disappear altogether (as it is starting to dwindle already...) or just force the issue and see if I can get some honesty??? His general demeanor is that we have no sexual issue and he doesn't understand what I am all worked up about...he;s very affectionate and attentive and fun and honest otherwise. Thanks, I know I am probably a pain in the rear here, but I do very much appreciate any thoughts...
stoopid_guy Posted October 3, 2006 Posted October 3, 2006 Hate to ask, but how... interactive are you? Tried kissing during the act? nibbling his ear? kissing his neck? his nipples? If he doesn't enjoy that and the skin-to-skin contact, then you're right, he might as well be masturbating. Maybe try different positions?
Author luvstarved Posted October 3, 2006 Author Posted October 3, 2006 Yes, s_g, I have tried but am either met with awkward avoidance or outright rejection. The only thing he likes me to do is "rub his back and a**" during and frankly, I can only get so creative with that. A few times he was "losing momentum" so I was gifted with an opportunity to use my mouth to get things going again but as soon as he was "viable", that was over too. I tried to get him to just lie back one time and let me explore him and we ended up in a huge fight! Wouldn't even let me TRY! I have no idea whether this could be true, but the sex went down the tubes when I was in late stages of pregnancy with our daughter and coincidentally or not has never been the same. I have a hard time believing that it could be something as idiotic as the Mommy thing, but I don't really know what's true anymore...he said once a long time ago (when talking about past relationships) that he hadn't had that many (but he WAS a good lover and I found out that he had been party in not one but TWO abortions) and that most relationships he'd been in "weren't worth it" and he'd just as soon do himself... I am definitely not a lousy lover, or at least, I didn't USED to be Hard to say when you're so out of practice... But the weirdest is how we DID have such a good sex life (from my point of view at least). I thought he had just gotten habituated to "himself" but I don't know. It's driving me insane and I can't sleep and I don't know how to get to the truth when all I get is that I am making issues out of nothing and pressuring him by doing so and being told that he is interested and then dealing with him acting like he's not...AAARRRRGGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!! But supposing he does prefer masturbation? Is there any cure? Thanks for listening!
Jazmyn Posted October 3, 2006 Posted October 3, 2006 sorry, LS, I'm just jumping in here on the issue and don't know a whole lot of you relationship history,...but has he ever been sexually abused?? Are you absolutely positive of your answer to this question? If the answer is a resounding "NO", then the guy is definitely having another relationship, then I pose the question why does he stay with you? and why you with him? It seems to me this is total mental abuse in a very sad way. Just thought I'd throw that out there.....my second husband had severe masturbation issues, (like 7-10 x's /day) and we had an exceptional sex life.......but that's another long story from many many years ago. I've been divorced from him now going on 11 years. Yes, s_g, I have tried but am either met with awkward avoidance or outright rejection. The only thing he likes me to do is "rub his back and a**" during and frankly, I can only get so creative with that. A few times he was "losing momentum" so I was gifted with an opportunity to use my mouth to get things going again but as soon as he was "viable", that was over too. I tried to get him to just lie back one time and let me explore him and we ended up in a huge fight! Wouldn't even let me TRY! I have no idea whether this could be true, but the sex went down the tubes when I was in late stages of pregnancy with our daughter and coincidentally or not has never been the same. I have a hard time believing that it could be something as idiotic as the Mommy thing, but I don't really know what's true anymore...he said once a long time ago (when talking about past relationships) that he hadn't had that many (but he WAS a good lover and I found out that he had been party in not one but TWO abortions) and that most relationships he'd been in "weren't worth it" and he'd just as soon do himself... I am definitely not a lousy lover, or at least, I didn't USED to be Hard to say when you're so out of practice... But the weirdest is how we DID have such a good sex life (from my point of view at least). I thought he had just gotten habituated to "himself" but I don't know. It's driving me insane and I can't sleep and I don't know how to get to the truth when all I get is that I am making issues out of nothing and pressuring him by doing so and being told that he is interested and then dealing with him acting like he's not...AAARRRRGGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!! But supposing he does prefer masturbation? Is there any cure? Thanks for listening!
Author luvstarved Posted October 3, 2006 Author Posted October 3, 2006 I don't believe he was ever abused but I don't know 100% for sure. I am 100% sure that he has not been seeing someone else because I know where he is all the time, have never seen any other signs and to be honest, he just isn't that clever that he could hide it from me. And I love that about him! More likely, I think he just gets quickly bored with a particular woman sexually, his previous relationships have been short (probably as long as it took him to get bored) and otherwise he's had a rich "self-fulfilling" life. So being with me 10 years is a major stretch...maybe... This morning, it had been 4 days so we were overdue and he initiated things. As an experiment, I decided to just lay there and see if he gave a damn whether I had any response or if he would be content to move along without me. He obviously noticed, because he asked me to touch him as I usually do and then was asking during whether I was liking it and such. Talk? During sex? Wow!! Always, I have to admit, we arrive at the big bang at the same time and even though I was trying to stay cool, he kept things going until I could not help myself! So maybe he does care at some level and since I am generally "easy to please", why try harder? I dunno. He did ask after if something was bothering me, and I just said I wanted us to talk more but we could do that later and then I rolled over and went back to sleep! I emailed him later that I wanted us to work to be closer and more open and that that was on my mind and I wondered when we would get the opportunity to focus on us but kinda left it at that...then he called and I sorta said the same but he went off about how the two teenage daughters are the source of all my stress, etc. Deflecting again. I told him to stop telling me where my stress was coming from, sure they are part of life but that they are not the major stressor in my life. He just said "OK..."
Jane Doe Posted October 3, 2006 Posted October 3, 2006 Luvstarved, I wish I could give you a big hug right now. Tears welled up in my eyes as I read your thread. I can SO relate to what you're going through. It's rejection at its finest and a very lonely world to live in. I've been married for 14 years and it's been mostly sexless for 13 of those years. We would go for months and month in between and this latest round has lasted 2 years and 8 months. My heart goes out to you and please believe me when I tell you that I fully understand. Several years ago my husband lied to me about the porn, too. He used the line about it "just showing up on his screen" the same as your husband did. How ignorant do they think we are? I've been online for years and it's never "just shown up" on my screen. I have to agree with Jazmyn. It really sounds like your husband could have been sexually abused in his past. Just because he denies it doesn't mean it didn't happen. He's got a definite hang-up and it's not you. The two abortions could also be weighing on his psyche. Masturbation may be his way of having the physical release without having to emotionally show up for anything. Again, I'm sorry for your pain.
burning 4 revenge Posted October 3, 2006 Posted October 3, 2006 I dont understand why you guys just blame masturbation. Obviously these men have sexual dysfunction to some degree and masturbation is so much easier with no pressure to satisfy anyone. Like I said, I have ED and I masturbate a couple of times per week. Just because you can masturbate doesn't mean you don't have ED. As a matter of fact, it makes you want to more for the extra stimulation. LS he needs to see a doctor. He's 47. Old enough for problems, but too young for sexual death. I'm sure a urologist can help him.
portableversion Posted October 3, 2006 Posted October 3, 2006 Why do you even want to have sex with this man? IF the choice was no sex, or sex with him, i'd be gladly 'sexless'.
Author luvstarved Posted October 4, 2006 Author Posted October 4, 2006 I dont understand why you guys just blame masturbation. Obviously these men have sexual dysfunction to some degree and masturbation is so much easier with no pressure to satisfy anyone. Like I said, I have ED and I masturbate a couple of times per week. Just because you can masturbate doesn't mean you don't have ED. As a matter of fact, it makes you want to more for the extra stimulation. LS he needs to see a doctor. He's 47. Old enough for problems, but too young for sexual death. I'm sure a urologist can help him. Well after the initial few times he has had no performance problems. He lasts as long as necessary for me to be "done" (there IS that!). I don't know whether I could get him going in the first place because he has usually taken care of that before I am even half awake...i DO NOT blame masturbation per se, I enjoy it myself, but when it is a complete substitute for a real sex life, it's a problem - not for him but for me and the marriage. I am sure that he could not be the stud he must have been in his 20s (before I knew him) at his age, but the ability does not seem to be a major problem AT ALL.
Author luvstarved Posted October 4, 2006 Author Posted October 4, 2006 Luvstarved, I wish I could give you a big hug right now. Tears welled up in my eyes as I read your thread. I can SO relate to what you're going through. It's rejection at its finest and a very lonely world to live in. I've been married for 14 years and it's been mostly sexless for 13 of those years. We would go for months and month in between and this latest round has lasted 2 years and 8 months. My heart goes out to you and please believe me when I tell you that I fully understand. Several years ago my husband lied to me about the porn, too. He used the line about it "just showing up on his screen" the same as your husband did. How ignorant do they think we are? I've been online for years and it's never "just shown up" on my screen. I have to agree with Jazmyn. It really sounds like your husband could have been sexually abused in his past. Just because he denies it doesn't mean it didn't happen. He's got a definite hang-up and it's not you. The two abortions could also be weighing on his psyche. Masturbation may be his way of having the physical release without having to emotionally show up for anything. Again, I'm sorry for your pain. Thanks Jane and I am sorry that you are going through the same. Did you ever have a similar period of hope where things got better for a while? I still hold out some hope that I will be able to get the truth out of him and be able to move on together to find a reasonable solution but I wonder if I am just kidding myself...
Jane Doe Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 Yes, I had hopeful periods. We've been through a lot of ups and downs in our marriage. Right now (and for the past several years) my husband has been ideal and has treated me like a princess. I couldn't ask for a better man in so many ways but I don't look for us to ever have sex again. The porn thing and his rejection of me for years and years has left me cold and hardened in that department and I feel nothing physically for him. The thought of ever having sex with him again sickens and terrifies me. That being said, there is always hope for you. We're in two completely different situations and I don't know enough about yours to offer a whole lot of insight. The fact that you're having sex is a positive sign. I think it's important to keep the lines of communication open and I can see that you're more than willing to do that.
pricillia Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 Why do you even want to have sex with this man? IF the choice was no sex, or sex with him, i'd be gladly 'sexless'.[/quote maybe just maybe she is looking for a connection with the person that she is supposed to have a connection with, and she is looking for advice on how to make that happen. Most everybody needs sex and intamacy...
Rooster_DAR Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 Most everybody needs sex and intamacy... Please explain this to my EX g/f! She doesn't seem to understand that.
Rooster_DAR Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 I don't believe he was ever abused but I don't know 100% for sure. I am 100% sure that he has not been seeing someone else because I know where he is all the time, have never seen any other signs and to be honest, he just isn't that clever that he could hide it from me. And I love that about him! More likely, I think he just gets quickly bored with a particular woman sexually, his previous relationships have been short (probably as long as it took him to get bored) and otherwise he's had a rich "self-fulfilling" life. So being with me 10 years is a major stretch...maybe... This morning, it had been 4 days so we were overdue and he initiated things. As an experiment, I decided to just lay there and see if he gave a damn whether I had any response or if he would be content to move along without me. He obviously noticed, because he asked me to touch him as I usually do and then was asking during whether I was liking it and such. Talk? During sex? Wow!! Always, I have to admit, we arrive at the big bang at the same time and even though I was trying to stay cool, he kept things going until I could not help myself! So maybe he does care at some level and since I am generally "easy to please", why try harder? I dunno. He did ask after if something was bothering me, and I just said I wanted us to talk more but we could do that later and then I rolled over and went back to sleep! I emailed him later that I wanted us to work to be closer and more open and that that was on my mind and I wondered when we would get the opportunity to focus on us but kinda left it at that...then he called and I sorta said the same but he went off about how the two teenage daughters are the source of all my stress, etc. Deflecting again. I told him to stop telling me where my stress was coming from, sure they are part of life but that they are not the major stressor in my life. He just said "OK..." He's not attracted to you at this point, that's the bottom line. He probably got into a habit of masturbation and became his own best lover, it happens all the time.
Author luvstarved Posted October 4, 2006 Author Posted October 4, 2006 There are a lot of reasons that I want to have sex with him. First of all, unlike me, I admit,he is very sexually appealing - people are always telling me how built and handsome he is, etc - and yet he is definitely not a womanizer - BTDT2 and no thanks! He is very spiritual and he SAYS that he wants what I want and he has actively sought out seminars, etc that we could attend. He was very into the idea of "dates" and he enthusiastically helps choose and we have a great time when we go. He is a devoted family man, loves his daughters (two of them stepdaughters) and helps in discussions about their well being etc. He tears up at sappy movies, especially if they are about baseball. He's very supportive of me and proud of me. In all other ways, he is positively my dream man. He was spoiled rotten by his parents, and there are a few issues with that, but he is so good and well intentioned in every other way... And when we do have sex, as much as the impersonality gets to me, he does have great moves and always "waits" for me before he finishes. On top of all this, he used to be a fabulous lover and I just don't know how to get him back! But while there is any hope at all, I am going to work on it! I know that I get really down about it, and I cannot live like this indefinitely, but there is so much there to work with that I refuse to give up without giving it my all. That is why I am on here constantly trying to gather others' insights! I worry about all sorts of possibilities because I don't know the truth yet, but I do tend to think that whatever the problem is, it is not anything intentionally malicious or neglectful on his part. After all,we were not having sex at all, and now we are. So I do feel like he is trying in his own way. I just want so badly to get him to open up to me and I don't know how. I feel that something is deeply embarrassing to him or else he just is afraid of hurting me (by, for example, admitting that he prefers masturbation, if that is what it is). He says he wants the same closeness I want but when it comes to this subject, he just can't...for some reason...and won't admit that he can't...
Author luvstarved Posted October 4, 2006 Author Posted October 4, 2006 He's not attracted to you at this point, that's the bottom line. He probably got into a habit of masturbation and became his own best lover, it happens all the time. Well, yeah, that would make sense and I can believe that but the question is can I DO anything about it???
PSmith Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 luvstarved I don’t post a lot. I find that many people on here have such good advice, that I enjoy reading and learning. I’ve been following your posts from the beginning, and something you said in this one struck a chord with me. It’s about your husband being bored. I have a very good friend whom I’ve known for 12 years. He’s was the typical player, going from one woman to the next. Cheating on current girls, happened all the time. Massage parlors, prostitutes, one night stands are nothing new for this guy. A few years ago he met and fell in love. He’s been living with his current GF for 4 years now. And for the past 2 years he’s been having problems getting sexually aroused with his GF. Although masturbation doesn’t seem a problem. Many times he actually prefers it. He just doesn’t look forward to having sex with his GF. Of course she’s noticed the drop off, and has asked him about it. He’s too embarrassed to tell her that he’s become bored and would like to try and spice things up. He tells her everything is fine and that he’s happy with their sex life. My friend has told me how he thinks he has a defect and can never be happy with just one woman. If your husband is going through the same thing that my friend is going through, it will be next to impossible for him to open up to you. I know you’ve tried to spice things up before and only met with resistance. But, I think it’s worth it to try again. The tough part will be making it appear as if you’re not putting “pressure” on him to do something. Instead of approaching it like you want your sex life to improve (thereby implying you’re not happy with it), how about approaching it from curiosity. If you’ve never watched porn with him, tell him you’re curious about watching porn. But, you too embarrassed to watch it alone. Would he mind if he watched it with you. If he gets aroused during the viewing maybe you could “lend a hand”, but no further. You could also mention that you’re curious what it would feel like to masturbate in front of him. In that situation he doesn’t have to do anything but look, no pressure. He does seem eager to make an effort to please you. The trick now is to get him to be more comfortable, so he can open up about things he wants. It took a while to get where you are, and it will take a while to get back to where you were. Baby steps all the way. I hope this helps.
LeeAnn26 Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 Hi luvstarved Have you ever done any reading up on porn/sex addiction? It seems a repeated pattern for porn addicts who masturbate to a series of "ritual" fantasies, eventually replacing sex with a real life partner, and often ED? Not saying it is necessarily your partner's problem, but it could be?
SoleMate Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 Please read The Sex-Starved Marriage by Michele Weiner-Davis. There are many possible root causes for the problem you describe...all over the map from Abuse to Zoophilia. Better diagnose correctly before prescribing.
Author luvstarved Posted October 4, 2006 Author Posted October 4, 2006 Please read The Sex-Starved Marriage by Michele Weiner-Davis. There are many possible root causes for the problem you describe...all over the map from Abuse to Zoophilia. Better diagnose correctly before prescribing. Yes I think I will, I have seen this book referenced a few times so it probably is worthwhile. He has been evasive and given me a lot of different answers, any of which could be the whole truth being lumped in with other things, or part of a collection of truths. I think about all of these possibilities and lose sleep over some of them. His behavior has been pretty consistent up until the last few weeks in trying to avoid the issue altogether, but he has also been consistent in seeming to sincerely love me and wanting this marriage to work. It is hard for me to reconcile, but as I said, I don't intend to give up unless and until giving up is the only option. I don't think he is "addicted to porn", honestly it seemed like he was pretty content with himself and just used the porn for occasional "inspiration". He has not looked at any since we started having sex again. I do not see ED as the issue, either, he has easily been able to perform 3-4 times a week, and we just had two days in a row. He is not 19, but he has not had performance issues after the initial week that we started things up again. For the first time, this morning he was the one to mention how much he enjoyed the morning's activities. So perhaps that was some kind of breakthrough. Every day presents its evidence, sometimes good, sometimes bad...I guess I can't really do any more than to keep doing what I am doing and hope it all works out. We are reading other things, and having dates, and making plans to do relationship exercises from the books, etc. I hope it will all help. My hope is that he has just gotten into this bored state and masturbation has become a habit that can be broken and that he is just too embarrassed and afraid of hurting my feelings to admit all that. He was EXTREMELY upset when I suggested that I could not live this sexless life, so I know that he wants the marriage. Also, he has never been a womanizer, and he does NOT think porn is OK and feels guilty about it. He is very spiritual and moral generally, kind of a Dudley Do-Right in all other ways so I believe him. I had a very wild past myself and am not nearly as spiritual as he is, so really the porn bothered him as much as me. It only bothered me because it interfered with us having a sex life... So I will just keep analyzing and posting and tenaciously working on this. It amazes me so much how much care and insight I derive from this board. What a great bunch of people you all are to share your thoughts and show your concern. Thanks so much!!!
Author luvstarved Posted October 4, 2006 Author Posted October 4, 2006 luvstarved He does seem eager to make an effort to please you. The trick now is to get him to be more comfortable, so he can open up about things he wants. It took a while to get where you are, and it will take a while to get back to where you were. Baby steps all the way. I hope this helps. Yes your post is very encouraging and I appreciate it very much. It DOES help!!!!
Jazmyn Posted October 6, 2006 Posted October 6, 2006 Have you tried taking polaroids of yourself and suggesting he have these while he masturbates? Or maybe some other stimuli that may remind him of you (perfume, favorite panties, etc). Have you tried incorporating it into your love making to make him feel more comfortable? Do you encourage him to stay in bed and masturbate instead of isolating himself somewhere in the house? I know, so many questions. But I went through years of emotional hell trying to crack open this whole issue. Not that I'm an expert but I did learn quite a bit from the years of counseling for sexual abuse victims AND partners of sexual abuse victims. Masturbation is an avenue for them to feel safe and escape into their own little world where no one is allowed. When I was married, we did explore many different ways for both of us to feel comfortable with it. I didn't have much other choice since it became part of my life too. He "graduated" to staying in bed more often to do it than disappearing in different rooms. Sometimes I'd join in and other times I'd just lie next to him suggled till he finished. It was a huge conscious effort for me to seperate this whole thing from the "me" and "us". A program I needed to work on a daily basis so I wouldn't get consumed with all sorts of negative feelings. For quite some time it was all good, we had become closer than we ever thought possible and our sex life was incredible! I was his wife #4 (yeah, don't say it) and the only one that had accepted and integrated this into our marriage. Until that day.......that day I felt a gut-wrenching blow to my heart. Finding the pornography. A subject he denied and downplayed for YEARS while going through all of this with me. I was totally shocked to find the things I did and realize he was carrying on a total seperate life-style behind my back. After all I had done to help him. That was a devestating blow. Phone bills with rows and rows of 900 numbers, stacks of xxx videos, $50 magazines that made Hustler look very tasteful, etc. Well, obviously the deception and lies were the biggest blow. We stayed together another year after that was all found and his lifestyle was "exposed". The porn was thrown to the trash, by him. There were many tears from both and we vowed to get past this and stay together and make more promises. blah blah blah......till the day I found more and that was all I could take. Sorry I went on so long, obviously one thing led to another. Just some food for thought here, take what you want. Good luck, you are a good woman!
blind_otter Posted October 6, 2006 Posted October 6, 2006 Does anyone else think that this sounds like he prefers masturbation? Any guys like this who can enlighten me? Any thoughts on my next move? Should I lay low and wait for the sex to disappear altogether (as it is starting to dwindle already...) or just force the issue and see if I can get some honesty??? His general demeanor is that we have no sexual issue and he doesn't understand what I am all worked up about...he;s very affectionate and attentive and fun and honest otherwise. Thanks, I know I am probably a pain in the rear here, but I do very much appreciate any thoughts... My question to you is -- have you stopped to consider the reasons why he may prefer masturbation? There is always a reason why we behave the way we do. Attend to that deeper reason, and the unwanted behavior will probably lessen or disappear altogether.
Guest Posted October 6, 2006 Posted October 6, 2006 This doesn't sound like a masturbation problem. It sounds like an intimacy problem. He really should see a professional. I think he started having problems seeing you sexually after you had children. This can happen when people are conditioned to view sex as dirty rather than something beautiful. Once you become a mother, making love to you is percieved as some kind of violation. It's kind of like that Madonna/whore complex you hear about. An example. Have you ever watched the Sopranos? The episode where he's in with his therapist because of his extramarital affairs. He talks about how he is free to do what he wants with those women. His therapist asks him "Why don't you do those things with your wife?". He gets a look of completely furious indignation and says, "What the f**** do you mean why don't I do those things with my wife?! My kids kiss that mouth for gods sake!!" That's a glimpse of the mentality that drives this behavior and the accompanying. They feel guilty and bad after making love to their own wife! A terrible situation to be in.
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