Crimson107 Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 My confession wasn't a good start. I just told her a few times in the OW bed. Wife was too smart and pumped me for more and I told so much more. Enough to explain many details, enough to cause extreme hurt and pain. But what happens if I think harder and find out I still wasn't all confessed. Also, I am getting a STD test. What if I got something and gave it to my wife. That new info is going to make me sick. It will be another set back. Now that I have confessed, what do I do with new memories or new hurtful info. . .It was hard enough in the first place and it has done more damage than ever. Now things are so fragile that another blow could really kill it. Wife wants to know how many times I had sex with the OW. I really don't know and I think that looks like more lying. This is a hard place to be in. I want it to work - not kill it again. She found out new info this weekend and it hurt. She found out when we started talking on the phone regularly. Any ideas on what to do with new info to confess. . .
InaPanic Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 i've never believed that the betrayed spouse needs to hear all the gory details tho most will disagree. a friend of mine who knows that i had an affair called me today to tell me about a Dr. Phil episode she watched re: a woman who cheated on her husband. She said once the woman confessed to dr. p that she had had an affair that he advised her to NOT tell all the details. Said once you have admitted to the affair that is enough that the details will do nothing but make more vivid images in the BS's head & will do no good. Now i didn't see this myself but this is what she said. I agree.
Author Crimson107 Posted October 2, 2006 Author Posted October 2, 2006 I think I agree too- I have hurt her so much and just want to stop the pain. She thinks knowing all the details will make the pain go away. But she is struggling with the images in her head. I am trying to comfort her and assure her that I want to work it out. I seem to still do enough to push her away even now. I have commited to NC and I am going to stick to it. She wanted to write her a nasty letter and tell her spouse but I said that only gives her what she wants or a way back into contacting me. I want to sever it all and focus on my wife. I fear I have stopped her in her grief and she has accused me of protecting the OW. I am really trying to protect us but peception is the really painful thing. She can only see me loving her and I only love my wife and kids. I messed up and want to correct it. However, I can't deny her feelings and would not be comforting if I didn't. I feel stuck without ways to make it better- only worse.
jmargel Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 I have stopped her in her grief Why in the world would you do that!! Let her grieve! She deserves to feel how SHE wants to feel. You are NOT protecting her by doing this. This will cause you to lose her. Crimson you are trying to sheild her from the pain however that is impossible. For her to even start to heal she needs to unfortunetly feel all the pain. Everyone is different and while one person might not want to know the details perhaps it would be easier for her to start the healing process once she knows all. When an affair happens there is just not 'one' talk. You will be both in for a roller coaster ride. Where a few weeks things might feel ok then the next she'll want out of the marriage. Things such as watching a movie where cheating takes place might set her off. She'll be paranoid and perhaps go in one of many directions. For now, do as she says. If she wants you to write a NC letter, then do it. Let her read it and let her send it. Stop concentrating on your OWN pain and start dealing with hers, if you love her so much. I also suggest you two goto MC because no matter what YOU say that is not going to change how she feels. What MC will do is give her ways to deal with this in a positive way and to help her out emotionally. You need to not only deal with her pain but do some soul searching yourself on why this happened. Please read my link in my signature there's alot that you might benefit from. I often find that bad or lack of good communication is usually the starting point to affairs (IMO). Good luck.. PS.. BTW look up the '5 stages of grief'. It's often associated with people who lost a loved one due to death, however people in relationships where infelidity occur often go through the same feelings.
Trimmer Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 i've never believed that the betrayed spouse needs to hear all the gory details tho most will disagree. While I might actually agree in concept, I would disagree that the WS should make this decision for the BS. This is a consideration that a BS should make for him/herself. At this time, the BS deserves to be treated like an adult, not like a child. Crimson, you started out withholding information to minimize the affair, and your wife discovered right away that you were holding back. The affair was the first breach of trust, and she probably feels that at the first opportunity to start rebuilding (at your confession), because you basically lied about the extent of the affair, she still couldn't trust you to give her everything she wanted to know, irrespective of what you thought was good for her. She is going to feel hurt and miserable and unsafe and untrusting, no matter how exactly you tell her. There's no way that confessing an affair can have a "good" outcome in the short term, it is a painful train-wreck no matter what. So it's hard to second-guess yourself and say, well, that could have been better.... But do realize that one of the fundamental things you need to build back up is her trust, and to whatever degree she thinks you are holding back on her, hiding things from her for whatever reason, it will impede her ability to rebuild and renew her damaged trust in you. You see, from your perspective, you are thinking, "Maybe I should make the decision for my wife what is helpful for her to hear or not." But from the BS's perspective, if you do that, no matter what your explanation, it just sounds like you are withholding information to make it easier on yourself. You already demonstrated that you didn't put your marriage before your own interests, so if you hold back now, given the choice between believing that (1) you are holding back "for her own good" or (2) you are holding back to protect yourself, given the state of her trust in you, what do you think she will believe? If it's better for her not to hear the details, she needs to come to that decision for herself. You can certainly suggest this, and it may help her to do some reading up on recovery from affairs, but if you are to rebuild her trust, it needs to be in the context of: "I promise I will answer any question you ask honestly and completely."
catgirl1927 Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 I find it hard to believe you are trying to protect her. I think you are trying to protect yourself from having to talk about it any more. You have absolutely no rights at all in your relationship any more. You traded them for sex with another person. You may not want to talk about it, but if you were truly committed to "fixing" this ruin of a marriage you would put aside your own discomfort. She is torn up and destroyed inside through no fault of her own and you are completely and solely to blame. No amount of discomfort you feel at talking about the horrible thing you have done can in any way compare to her pain. Whatever shame you feel at recounting it is deserved.
jonesgirly Posted October 3, 2006 Posted October 3, 2006 Crimson........ GUARANTEED that any betrayed spouse who has been "protected" from the truth by the cheater ISN'T going to begin healing until they feel they can trust the scoundrel (no offense intended) to actually TELL them the truth (the FIRST time). The betrayal your wife is feeling is BEYOND what you can imagine. You've had a secret little world, and she was not aware of it at all. And NOW, you want to protect THAT little world? NO. If your wife asks, answer. But answer in a respectful manner. (I remember one time when my husband YELLED at me: "YES I WANTED TO FVK HER!" - thats NOT being nice). Have a little empathy, but don't forget that your ultimate goal is to rebuild the trust you've broken. That process will not start with further 'hiding' or 'leaving out' pertinent details. It is very humiliating for a person to have to become a P.I. in order to gain the knowledge that their spouse choose to withhold from them. Its a great big smack o' disrespect too, when you find out that they continued to lie. I would've given anything if my H had chosen to be truthful with me. At one point he indicated that he thought that what he had done "looked worse than it was", and that's why he choose to lie, hide and minimize (a.k.a. "we were ONLY friends!"). If I could've known that he would be honest, even if it made him look even more guilty, I wouldn't have continued to be suspicious. I wouldn't have continued to 'wonder' what really went on. Its such a primal need in a trusting relationship - to KNOW that your spouse will answer honestly about the 'important' stuff. It doesn't mean you have to 'recreate the scene' with local actors, just answer honestly, respectfully, and willingly, the questions that your wife asks.
Author Crimson107 Posted October 4, 2006 Author Posted October 4, 2006 I find it hard to believe you are trying to protect her. I think you are trying to protect yourself from having to talk about it any more. You are right. I don't want to deal with the pain cause it always brings us back to the death of when I told her. I confessed the new info I thought of and she was in great pain again. The rubber band is going to snap! God I hope nothing new comes to light that I forgot about. I put so much into the lie that I am afraid of deeper levels of things I might have covered up. I put so much into the lie because I was "protecting" her. I understand that is bull**** and I lied to justify my stupid curiousity and ego. I would die if it could make her feel whole again. Yes! I deserve her anger. I am afraid it will never work again but it is the only thing I can want at this point. I have left everything behind to continue our plan to support her career. Unfortunately, it is hard for her to focus and do a good job in her new career because I have made everything harder than it has to be. I will never have an affair again. I never understood how men can have women on the side and I still don't. It took away soooo much of me and I can see why she doesn't want it to work. I have not acted in a loveable way. So now I have confessed. Is wanting it to work on my marriage a new way to be shelfish like when I had the affair? I don't want to love my wife anyway that associates me to the second evil person I became. I want her to feel something real and pure. It's in me. we had an intimate moment. The intensity I felt just have her hold my hand back was real love I was having for my wife. Someone said it is better to regret something you have done over something you haven't. That is crazy- regret is painful on both sides. My purpose is to reconcile. Live for her even if she divorces me. I will never let my love for her come second again if she takes me back. I will not take it as permission to do it again. If I fall again, I will confess with my death and undeserving life.
LeeAnn26 Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 I know some people advise against full disclosure, but I am at the moment dealing with my partner's infidelity. He claims that he loves me, that he made a mistake, and that he wants to work on getting our relationship and trust back. I feel that we have to start from a basic point of total honesty, and as long as he keeps information from me, as long as he cannot bring himself to tell me the truth (he says it is too painful and that he feels too guilty and embarrassed), I cannot do that. For me, i would rather know it all, and be able to make an informed decision. I asked him if he would rather be with a partner who stays because she knows it all but chooses to stay, or go on knowing there is more out there that i may one day find out, and that will most definitely make me leave?
Foreign affair Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 Hello, I'm new here on the forum as my husband finally confessed to having an affair with a client of ours for the last year, obviously I am hurting deeply but we have always had a very very strong marriage and hopefully that will get us through - as regards knowing the details - I wanted to know EVERYTHING and he told me, and you are right it does create images in your head. I am having a hard time dealing with that BUT I know the images are based on truth. I'm not fabricating something and blowing it out of the already enormous proportion this whole sad mess is. I know in him telling me everything is cathartic for him and I feel if we can be completely honest with each now. It's a good step towards creating honesty from now on. Let's face it, I can't hurt much more than I already do so I might as well have the whole whammy then rebuild. Then getting one step forward and two steps back by always wondering. Hope that helps
riobikini Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 re: LeeAnn26: "...we have to start from a basic point of total honesty..." LeeAnn26, I'm curious about *exactly* what you mean by "honesty". I think it's a legitimate question, given the many different ideas of "honesty" that people have. For some, it means not only telling you *about having* the affair -it means adding in the tiniest details, precise descriptions, and giving you nearly verbatum dialogue that was spoken during the the episodes of sex while the affair lasted. These kinds of details are the kind that DO NOT need to be disclosed, but many women have a morbid taste for the "juicey" details even though, in doing so, they are only asking for more pain, more reason to "never trust" anyone ever again, and in some cases -a big ol' platform of self-righteousness to stand on, point down to the "lowly, despicable" partner who had the affair- and make his life forever miserable by reminding him of it at every opportunity. Not all women -but some- do this. Learning the details and turning them into a sort of "weapon" is a form of control and a level of cruelty I am unwilling to accept as "part of the deal that was made with the devil" when the partner had the affair. Getting all those minute details from your partner about the affair only fuels the risk for this happening -and in a relationship where two partners are truly committed to getting past the affair and mending the chasm, the vivid details can certainly be the "stopper" for that ever happening. Here's what I believe works best: you give only info that provides a sketch of the beginning, middle, and end of the affair. You do this with regards to your (already-hurting, and still-mending) partner ever being "surprised" in the future by learning *significant facts* that have connected the affair with the public knowledge of it having been carried on. For example: if your partner allowed his affair to drive his car around town; if he left town with her to carry on the affair; if he provided clothing, jewelry, or more expensive items; and if there were more serious occurrances such as a pregnancy or an abortion during the affair. Those kinds of things *do* need to be disclosed. Why? Because they are either things that "everyone" knows, or things that could possibly have to be dealt with in the future by the two of you as a team. And -most obviously- because knowing about them can reduce the impact of confrontational circumstances from "outside" sources that could occur -at any given time- in the future. Hope this helps. Take care. -Rio
outofdarkness Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 You are right. I don't want to deal with the pain cause it always brings us back to the death of when I told her. I confessed the new info I thought of and she was in great pain again. The rubber band is going to snap! God I hope nothing new comes to light that I forgot about. I put so much into the lie that I am afraid of deeper levels of things I might have covered up. I put so much into the lie because I was "protecting" her. I understand that is bull**** and I lied to justify my stupid curiousity and ego. I would die if it could make her feel whole again. Yes! I deserve her anger. I am afraid it will never work again but it is the only thing I can want at this point. I have left everything behind to continue our plan to support her career. Unfortunately, it is hard for her to focus and do a good job in her new career because I have made everything harder than it has to be. I will never have an affair again. I never understood how men can have women on the side and I still don't. It took away soooo much of me and I can see why she doesn't want it to work. I have not acted in a loveable way. So now I have confessed. Is wanting it to work on my marriage a new way to be shelfish like when I had the affair? I don't want to love my wife anyway that associates me to the second evil person I became. I want her to feel something real and pure. It's in me. we had an intimate moment. The intensity I felt just have her hold my hand back was real love I was having for my wife. Someone said it is better to regret something you have done over something you haven't. That is crazy- regret is painful on both sides. My purpose is to reconcile. Live for her even if she divorces me. I will never let my love for her come second again if she takes me back. I will not take it as permission to do it again. If I fall again, I will confess with my death and undeserving life. Good for you! Now...lets see if you can resist temptation when it comes knocking at your pant's zipper again...It's seems to be harder then cheater's think...As far as answering her questions....I had an insatiable appetite when it came to knowing the details of my H's affairs...Some info was valuable and needed to be told...some were just too painful to endure. I think a broad answer is fine, and as one poster said, as long as you answer in a respectful and calm way. I do not think it necessary or beneficial to the healing process to reveal more then she asks for...As one poster said...You cannot begin to imagine the pain that your W is feeling right now. It is almost indescribable...All sorts of things start to run like a bad B movie through your head....one of the most important being, have I been exposed to anything;stds, and is my family in any danger...There is the phyisical part but there are also other concerns...Is the OW going to get angry and snap? Should blackmail be a concern? It's an extremely unsettling, paranoid and helpless feeling. The best thing you can do at this point, in my opinion, is stay calm, answer her questions to the best of your knowledge, have patience and show her how much you respect and love her. You are in the dog house and moving out is going to take time and patience...Good luck..I feel for your W...Not you so much right now because I have felt everything she is feeling...It's devastating...
Trimmer Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 For some, it means not only telling you *about having* the affair -it means adding in the tiniest details, precise descriptions, and giving you nearly verbatum dialogue that was spoken during the the episodes of sex while the affair lasted. These kinds of details are the kind that DO NOT need to be disclosed, but many women have a morbid taste for the "juicey" details even though, in doing so, they are only asking for more pain, more reason to "never trust" anyone ever again, and in some cases -a big ol' platform of self-righteousness to stand on, point down to the "lowly, despicable" partner who had the affair- and make his life forever miserable by reminding him of it at every opportunity. Not all women -but some- do this. Learning the details and turning them into a sort of "weapon" is a form of control and a level of cruelty I am unwilling to accept as "part of the deal that was made with the devil" when the partner had the affair. Getting all those minute details from your partner about the affair only fuels the risk for this happening -and in a relationship where two partners are truly committed to getting past the affair and mending the chasm, the vivid details can certainly be the "stopper" for that ever happening. I will reiterate my earlier point that if the WS insists on controlling the dialog and refuses to provide information and/or details where requested by the BS, that this can create an obstacle in rebuilding trust that will be a bigger "stopper" to recovery than details about sex positions, hotel rooms, phone calls, and dirty sheets will ever be. I'm not saying that the WS needs to give a 2 hour lecture, volunteering every possible unrequested detail, but that he/she should be willing to entertain and answer honestly any level of detailed questioning from the BS. A BS may choose not to get down to certain levels of details - which he/she can control by the level of questioning - but this should be a decision made by the BS or agreed to openly by both parties - NOT decided and dictated unilaterally by the WS. Put it this way: if a BS learns details that he or she later uses to hold over the head of the "lowly, despicable" WS - uses them as a weapon, shows "cruelty" - then there are even more serious relationship issues that need to be mended beyond just the fact of the affair. Witholding trust, withholding intimacy, withholding openness in the recovery of the affair will just allow a couple to continue to ignore some of those bigger issues, going back to the pre-existing, dysfunctional status-quo, and these issues will continue to fester below the surface, fueled further by the lack of trust created by the affair and the WS being unwilling to "come clean" to the satisfaction of the BS. The WS has already broken the trust placed by the BS. If he/she refuses to take a step to offer some trust back to the BS by saying: "I trust you, I will answer any question you ask honestly", then you have a standoff, a chasm that will never be bridged. It may not be outwardly acknowledged; it may seem calm and peaceful for a while, but that chasm is there, eating away at the long term chances for intimacy. Is it risky for a WS to offer full disclosure? Of course it is! The WS made a decision to risk the whole marriage to have the affair. Do you really think you can repair it without some risk - some significant risk? In most cases there are these pre-existing issues that set the stage for affairs, that really need to be fixed if you want the marriage to be better afterwards - true recovery. Absolutely it's risky, and it is certainly a more difficult path to take for the WS to offer full disclosure, than to just put certain things away in a box and say "I've made the decision not to share certain things about the affair..." But I believe that moment where the WS either risks it all, lays it all out and says "I will tell you anything you ask," or alternately takes a stand and essentially says "I will hold my cards and decide what is best for you" is a HUGE fork in the road that determines what path the marriage will take in the future. I know that I am only one example, and I won't generalize my experience to all others in affairs, but my marriage was an example of what happens when the trust is not rebuilt from the start, and when you just try to quietly return to the status quo in a low-risk way, without fixing the problems that existed leading up to the affair.
riobikini Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 re: Trimmer: "....the WS being unwilling to "come clean" to the satisfaction of the BS." For me, it's specifically the phrase " to the satisfaction of the BS" that leaves such a questionmark at the end of this imperitive demand for infomation. It leaves such an open-endedness to the ordeal, and often heard out of the circumstances is the particular, familiar dialogue: Person who comitted the affair: " When is it going to be "enough"? Partner who was deeply shattered by the affair: " I don't know -I can't stop thinking about it- maybe it'll never be over..." How much is "enough"? -Rio
catgirl1927 Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 Rio, I don't think it's ever enough. That's why I genuinely don't believe in reconciliation after cheating. The betrayed will never heal as long as the cheater is there mocking their pain with his or her presence. But if someone is going to try, I don't think the cheater has any right to ask when it will be enough. Ever.
riobikini Posted October 4, 2006 Posted October 4, 2006 re: Catgirl: " I genuinely don't believe in reconciliation after cheating." I can understand (from a female's point of view, and one who certainly values trust and commitment in a relationship) how devastating an affair can be -and how very long it can hurt. Personally, I could not even begin to attempt to reunite with someone whom I had no intentions of truly contributing my very best efforts in finding ways to heal all the hurts -both mine- and his. I would be inviting him into something I knew I could not change -and which would eventually become more of a nightmare than a much of a life. He may have had the affair -but if I can't get past my own threshold of harbored resentment, pain, and distrust, even though he is truly sorry for what he has done, taking action to rebuild the relationship, and is committed to never allowing it to happen again- I see no reason to seek to create a miserable future *together*, for either partner. -Rio
kimmillah Posted October 5, 2006 Posted October 5, 2006 Hey Crimson,Just wanted to share with you my perspective on reopening the wound. I'm a BS and I felt like I needed to know each and every detail. I questioned everything that happened because I felt that if we were going to make our marriage work, we needed to get everything out on the table. I felt like my h should be totally honest so that we could start with a clean slate, if you will, even if it meant hurting my feelings. MC definitely helped with us getting through that part. I can tell you that it was very difficult for my h, because he didn't like talking about the situation and watching my reaction to all the details. But he had to understand that it was what I needed in order to not feel like he was holding back, protecting the OW and that he was trying to be truthful after being a liar. I tell you this, feeling like I knew everything about the A sure did help me stop looking for more info that I may have thought he was not telling me. I've started trusting my h again. That is the key. Getting that trust back is a mf, but it can happen if you want it to. Good luck, I hope your marriage makes it through this.
LeeAnn26 Posted October 5, 2006 Posted October 5, 2006 Riobikini Yes, i agree, perhaps one should give a definition of what "honesty" should be in the context of the discussion. No, i dont think that the minute details need to be discussed. I think my response was a bit warped there, as i cannot even get my partner to admit to things he knows i know about. I just know that more lies and omissions dont help when you find out about them, they convince you that he is still a lying cheat, and that he has no real intention of changing.
riobikini Posted October 5, 2006 Posted October 5, 2006 re: LeeAnn: " more lies and omissions....he is still a lying cheat......he has no real intention of changing." LeeAnn, in dealing with *this* kind of fellow -who thinks he can "settle the little woman down" by using a few soothing words, then continue in secret with his cheating- my personal advice is to make a permanent break from the relationship. As convincing as his assurances might be, you will always find yourself feeling the target of a special kind of pain and ridicule every time he cheats -and then makes those familiar promises to "change". Some women become so caught up in trying to "go the extra mile" in putting forth the effort to change these creatures, they forget what it feels like to be in a relationship where there is genuine respect between two in-love, and committed partners. Maybe they're addicted to the drama, maybe they have lived their lives prior to that particular relationship in such a way (with other partners; or in earlier patterns created by parents, etc.) that they cannot recognize the futility of such a relationship, nor the need to change themselves, in regards to their choice of partner "types". Whatever the reason for believing such empty promises/lies of a repeatedly unfaithful partner, it can only worsen with time. There is no one (man or woman) who is so "wonderful", or so attractive to look at, or so wealthy, or so important- that one's self-protecting, self-preserving boundaries, personal self-esteem/respect, and core beliefs should ever be sacrificed in order to "have" them. In comment to those who use the excuse that the repetitively cheating spouse is "such a good father or mother", or a such a good "provider", or caregiver that you don't think you could live as well without them in the home -take a good hard look at the risks from the the example given by a cheater who is still assigned the same privileges of someone who does not cheat. That example is indelibly written into the future formation of the ideals and principles adopted by the children growing up with the example. Whether they choose to follow in the example given -or not- or in what specific ways they will be affected by it, is -I think- determined by the age of the child when they first became aware of the problems, their order of birth, their sex, as well as other factors, including personality. Sorry, if I have progressed a little off-topic, but I hope this has been helpful to someone. All take care. -Rio
SueBee3490 Posted October 5, 2006 Posted October 5, 2006 re: I can understand (from a female's point of view, and one who certainly values trust and commitment in a relationship) how devastating an affair can be -and how very long it can hurt. Personally, I could not even begin to attempt to reunite with someone whom I had no intentions of truly contributing my very best efforts in finding ways to heal all the hurts -both mine- and his. I would be inviting him into something I knew I could not change -and which would eventually become more of a nightmare than a much of a life. He may have had the affair -but if I can't get past my own threshold of harbored resentment, pain, and distrust, even though he is truly sorry for what he has done, taking action to rebuild the relationship, and is committed to never allowing it to happen again- I see no reason to seek to create a miserable future *together*, for either partner. -Rio Rio - You have such a "great" way of saying things. I wish I had your ability or skill at saying what I want to say but you said it very well here. At this point, I feel alot like Cat in that I don't see how people reconcile after cheating. I've tried, or should I say, I've thought over and over in my mind that I can make this marriage work because look at all the people on LS and other message boards who get past the affair and go on with their lives together. I thought "maybe" there is hope for my relationship. But when I truly look at myself (and I know myself better than anyone!), then I honestly believe that in my heart, I can't get past the cheating. Though he never wanted to go to counseling, he thought by reassuring me over and over and over that he's not cheating now and won't in the future, that that should be enough for me to "get over it" and go on with our lives together. He doesn't realize that isn't enough. I thought I needed more and even thinking about making it work by going through marriage counseling, I know in my heart even if we went, I would still have this resentment and anger towards him at what he did. I didn't mean to highjack this thread but as far as my opinion on knowing all the gory details of the affair. I used to think I wanted to know everything he did with these women. I wanted to know what they did in bed, then I'd get self-conscious that he probably is comparing me to them, etc., etc. It drives you crazy with the images of your spouse and the other person together. But now, I sometimes wish I didn't know what they looked like or what they did. Because those images are burned in my brain and it is so hard to get past that. You know maybe if I didn't know what they looked like, it's almost as if they don't exist to a certain degree in my mind. But because I saw their pictures, I know it was real. I just don't know whether it does any good for your wife to know the details of your affair but I certainly do understand her undying need to know - it's human nature to try to make sense of something that is so senseless. SueBee
riobikini Posted October 5, 2006 Posted October 5, 2006 re: SueBee: "...it's human nature to try to make sense of something that is so senseless.." And that's precisely *why* your post isn't necessarily hijacking the thread. (Smile) It's still very much related to all the feelings a person can have when dealing with this problem. re: SB: " ...he thought by reassuring me over and over and over that he's not cheating now and won't in the future, that that should be enough for me to "get over it".." No one "gets over it". You can heal -that's for certain- but like a scar, you will always carry the experience. The direction you take your experience -in a positive or a negative one- is up to you. It's not that easy, or simple. Getting through an episode of cheating -for both partners- is a serious issue, and there are steps to the process. It's more like "working through it" than "getting over it". It takes *time*. In consideration of the trauma of emotions, and damage to the relationship, -it should be reasonable to expect that a simple apology is "not enough". I understand that. And so do others who have recuperated -and years down the road- regained some level of much-welcomed "normalcy" after such a devastating personal event. After being cheated on, you're afraid of believing in the term "happy" ever again. After all, didn't "happy" -in regards to your marriage, or commitment with your life partner -mean that there were no negative issues of trust between you? and that there was a meaningful bond of loving commitment that could never be challenged? (Suggestion: Save the above statement for later review, when you have some time to spend in contemplative thought, and examine whether or not that was a rational belief to have, in the first place.) So -now that all that *has* been compromised/challenged- how in the world do you get your "happy" back? Developing deep trust in someone didn't happen overnight -so, likewise, don't expect that rebuilding from the damage done will occur with rapid speed. I believe that *no one* can go from zero to ninety in regards to recovering from such a major relationship issue. If they seem to have pulled off such an accomplishment, I would expect that undealt-with resentments, hurts, and serious trust issues will surface masked in other issues -at random- somewhere out on the horizon within a short span of time. Cheating spouses earn the spotlight with their actions, and in doing so, the seat gets pretty hot in their position. They just want the whole thing to "be over". In those who are truly regretful of what they have done, they just hang their heads in dismay, bury themselves deep in their shame; throw their hands up in futility, and retreat into their own misery, -not knowing *what* to do, nor *how* to do it -in regards to meeting the heightened demands of their partner, and rebuilding the trust in the relationship. I believe that the embarrassment, the weight of the acknowledgement of their wrongdoing, and the pain it has caused -just makes them wish, hope, and pray- that every one's suffering is short. Their "uncomfortableness", with having every one's prolonged attention focused on their episode of cheating, can cause them to blurt out things like, " Haven't I suffered enough?", or " Can't you just let it go?", or " I've apologized, already -can't you just get over it?". And those phrases hurt. I think -for the person being cheated on- that hearing these kinds of things said by the cheater, is thought of as an attempt to *minimize* the importance of the way he/she is feeling. It's an automatic response/reaction to demand that the cheater recognizes the pain he has caused for all concerned -and *suffers*, too- because of what he/she has done. We realize that it's *impossible* for the cheater to go back and correct his past actions -but we are willing to impose upon him/her the demand for utter displays of chastity, faithfulness, and "proof" that he/she will never, ever cheat again. We feel they owe us plenty -and we're out to collect on a debt that can never truly be paid -in part- because we have set such strict, dishearteningly unrealistic, and inaccomplishable demands, and -in part- because we *want* to make it difficult to match the difficulty we are having *ourselves* in being forced to deal with the most unexpected, life-shattering, trust-robbing kind of pain we have ever experienced. The battle against those giant, overwhelming, seemingly unstoppable waves of varied emotions being waged inside the person having been cheated on, has as much to do with the question of "How can I ever learn to live happily again", as it does with "How can I ever forgive you, and put this behind me?" It's major. And having to deal with the stunning news, and all those raw, damaged, and painful emotions takes lots of time. A future-saving step for healing from this kind of damage -I believe- is for the person who was cheated on to make a commitment to his/herself to -first- focus on a kind of careful review of all core ideals, and beliefs, boundaries, and personal goals held up to this point. (It helps to do this, anyway -from time to time). Even though they may be good, sound, and personally-fitting to begin with -an event of this magnitude will surely cause them to change , even if it's a minimum -but now is the time to consider making individual adjustments that broaden and enlighten their scope. Just make sure you keep any changes *positive* in order to allow you to be forward-moving, and able to grow. A good review of what you are made of on the "inside" can strengthen you, re-orient you, and help point you in the best direction. Here are a few things *not* to do: DO NOT... Spend a lot of time feeling sorry for yourself. Become a walking/talking live version of your cheater's story to everyone you meet. Stop caring about how you look, dress, or care for yourself. Frequently remind all your children what a horrible cheater mommy or daddy was. Try to handle, all by yourself, any worsening resentments you may have, or any irrational behavior you may be enacting. Give up , quit, or lessen your efforts to improve the situation by means that are available to you. Stay in the relationship, if *you* are the only partner working on the relationship, or if the cheating resumes. Stop the treatment, healing process, or professional help you may be getting, if the relationship does, indeed, come to an end. Hope all the above helps someone get through some of the worst of their dilemma. And hang on -a better day approaches!! (Smile) -Rio
Guest Posted October 5, 2006 Posted October 5, 2006 she'll want to know all the details so when you remember just tell her, she want to know. My husband wanted to know every detail of my affair, which I thought he shouldnt know. He said it really hurt but he was happy that I was honest with him and didnt keep any details from him.
RecoverMe Posted October 6, 2006 Posted October 6, 2006 re: For me, it's specifically the phrase " to the satisfaction of the BS" that leaves such a questionmark at the end of this imperitive demand for infomation. It leaves such an open-endedness to the ordeal, and often heard out of the circumstances is the particular, familiar dialogue: Person who comitted the affair: " When is it going to be "enough"? Partner who was deeply shattered by the affair: " I don't know -I can't stop thinking about it- maybe it'll never be over..." How much is "enough"? -Rio I think when will it ever be enough will come over time and if the WS is willing to answer all BS questions, then I think BS will feel the time for enough comes sooner than later. I know that my h was frustratedd a few times at my questions, but his willingness, tenderness and loving kindness backing his answers really pushed me forward alot faster. It's been almost 4 months since d-day and I feel I've come far fast b/c h was willing to jump through any hoop I threw out there. granted I didn't get on my pedestal or try to "punish" him, (well maybe a couple few times). we've both grown and matured and it feels like we've been given a second chance at a newer, better, more honest and passionate relationship/marriage. at least for today that's how it feels.....
riobikini Posted October 7, 2006 Posted October 7, 2006 re" onlywantshonesty: " I know that my h was frustrated a few times at my questions, but his willingness, tenderness and loving kindness backing his answers really pushed me forward allot faster." When *two* people are focused on, and committed to a long-term-effect "reconcile & rebuild", they are both aware of how the circumstances have injured *each other* and -like the "willingness, tenderness, and loving kindness" you describe- it determines their approach used in coping with all the present and forth-coming emotions, and the situation, in general. It sets the tone for everything. I think -sometimes- when someone who has cheated, but who is truly regretful of his behavior, sees the great pain and injury he has caused his partner -he (or she) is skeptical of *how much* detail he should provide, thinking that further details would only add to the pain. Figuring out *what to tell* and what not to tell creates a dilemma for him that -under the already extremely emotionally painful circumstances- may cause him to consider "holding back" certain in-depth, or "extra" details. This is where serious mistakes can be be made that can put at risk any -or all- future progress that is accomplished in rebuilding the relationship. This is also the point where the person who cheated must use certain "inside" information about his partner to have a much better idea about *how* to respond to questions, and *what* to respond with. And that's *still* difficult; he has to carefully "weigh in" each of his answers with this "inside info" in regards to what he believes his partner is capable of "handling" for the moment, and his/her expectations. He has to consider what is "fair" to his partner -even though he is struggling with his guilt from the affair -and which, to him, makes his whole consideration of "fairness" now seem dismayingly ridiculous, in that he is suddenly cast in the role of the "responsible one". But -with his "weighing in" of his responses- he is showing a desire to protect his partner from further pain while giving him/her what they may need to begin healing. Some partners who have cheated make grave mistakes in allowing their own feelings of guilt -and the desire to avoid further discussion and communication about the affair- to cause them to fail in a group of major ways: giving "enough" information, giving the right information, putting the information into the best terms, and coming across as sympathetic, sensitive, and caring. The partner who has been cheated on *needs* all of those things -in the positive- and in regards to gaining a kind of emotional "satisfaction" level from his/her partner in order to feel (for lack of a better word) "compensated", important enough to be acknowledged, validated, -and at the foremost of their partner's attention- as well the assurance that they are still loved. I agree with you, OnlyWantsHonesty, that " willingness, tenderness, and loving kindness" take the lead in truly healing with any couple who has dealt with the anguish, heartbreak, and damage from an affair. Take care. -Rio
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