restoring marriage after infidelity question

[Chapter2]

I subscribe to the belief that there is no way that a marriage has a chance of being restored if the WS is still in contact with the OW/OM. The question I have is based on it being a given that the WS is adhering to NC with the other person for whatever reason~~whether it be because the OM/OW has moved on or because the WS ended the R.

 

My question is this....

 

If a WS stays in the marriage due to any reason other than truly wanting to restore the marriage based on true conviction for their actions (not just guilt) but conviction that brings change, does the marriage have a chance?

 

When I say other reasons I mean the typical ones some people give... staying for the kids, financial reasons, social standing, religious conviction, etc.

 

I see couples all over the place that exist miserably in what appears to be pergatory for all the wrong reasons and I'm not talking only about men....MANY women I know stay in these relationships, paralyzed with fear of the unknown without their husbands.

 

Just curious what everyone thinks.

 

Thanks!

[FlyingHigh]

In order for the marriage to have a chance, the WS must decide to commit him/herself to rebuilding the marriage. That means NO CONTACT whatsoever! As long as the WS maintains contact w/the OW/OM, your M won't have a shot. The BS must then decide whether or not to stay in the marriage if the WS repeats violating the marriage vows. The problem with this is that IF the BS stays after being betrayed the second time around, the WS has no incentive to want to change. Why should s/he? Because now, it is as if you have given your WS the permission to continue his/her cheating ways.

[stoopid_guy]

How do you define "marriage?" In other words, restored to what?

[luvstarved]

I don't believe in hanging on in quiet misery. I don't believe in any reason for staying in a marriage other than mutual love and all that that means.

 

That isn't to say that there are no difficulties, but that both parties are willing and motivated to be together and fulfill each other's needs to the best of their ability.

 

My sister in law had an affair and probably would have left her H if the guy had not dumped her when she got too emotionally attached (he was also married). She and her H still live together for practical (financial) reasons but they barely speak. That is like hell on earth to me.

 

My H and I have our share of problems and each of us has our fears for the future, but we do love each other and want to work things out. If I didn't believe in that, I'd be gone. THere has not been an affair in our marriage, but there is a zero tolerance policy in place and were one to happen, that would be it for us. I am not big enough to move on together after such a flagrant act of betrayal and disrespect...we have discussed this at some length and agree on this point. Since we have made it so clear, it really would be unforgiveable. I suppose in some situations where it isn't talked about so thoroughly, there can be some wiggle room for rationalizations and the like. But not in our case.

[Chapter2]

How do you define "marriage?" In other words, restored to what?

 

I guess everyone's idea of marriage and restored marriage is different. At base, I would say restored after infidelity would be a continued working together to love, respect and be honest with your spouse. Not that you always achieve it but that you are both trying... Heck, I don't know:confused:

 

In order for the marriage to have a chance, the WS must decide to commit him/herself to rebuilding the marriage. That means NO CONTACT whatsoever! As long as the WS maintains contact w/the OW/OM, your M won't have a shot. The BS must then decide whether or not to stay in the marriage if the WS repeats violating the marriage vows. The problem with this is that IF the BS stays after being betrayed the second time around, the WS has no incentive to want to change. Why should s/he? Because now, it is as if you have given your WS the permission to continue his/her cheating ways.

 

Sometimes there is truly no contact with the other person, but also not much "trying" on the part of the wayword spouse. I know of one couple where the wife knows of five incidents of a one night stand and one emotional affair...her rationalization for staying in the marriage is that the one night stands were "just sex" for one single incident but that the emotional affair was truly an affair. She has somehow excused the one night stands in her mind in order to rationalize staying in the marriage. The emotional affair is another thing. She claims that she is gone "should this ever happen again"... I agree that all credibility is lost at this point. I can only imagine that she wants to stay for her children of which there are three under five years old and because she "loves" him. I'm not certain staying is an act of love though...certainly not self love on her part IMO. He does show great remorse and guilt but it doesn't seem to lead to lasting change.

 

I don't know...I seem to be seeing a LOT of unhappy marriages where people stay for reasons other than respect, love, admiration and strong character. They are young couples too, early 30's... Its terrifying actually.

[Chapter2]

I don't believe in hanging on in quiet misery. I don't believe in any reason for staying in a marriage other than mutual love and all that that means.

 

That isn't to say that there are no difficulties, but that both parties are willing and motivated to be together and fulfill each other's needs to the best of their ability.

 

My sister in law had an affair and probably would have left her H if the guy had not dumped her when she got too emotionally attached (he was also married). She and her H still live together for practical (financial) reasons but they barely speak. That is like hell on earth to me.

 

My H and I have our share of problems and each of us has our fears for the future, but we do love each other and want to work things out. If I didn't believe in that, I'd be gone. THere has not been an affair in our marriage, but there is a zero tolerance policy in place and were one to happen, that would be it for us. I am not big enough to move on together after such a flagrant act of betrayal and disrespect...we have discussed this at some length and agree on this point. Since we have made it so clear, it really would be unforgiveable. I suppose in some situations where it isn't talked about so thoroughly, there can be some wiggle room for rationalizations and the like. But not in our case.

 

I agree. It seems that strong marriages are unafraid to speak of the possibility that this could actually happen to them and talk about what their position is should it happen. I think most people or at least some go around thinking "my husband/wife would never cheat on me" and we'd all like to believe that. But, it happens all over the place to all walks of people. I hope that when I meet someone to marry, I will be unafraid to discuss all the scary possibilities.

[Guest]

There are a lot of couples who are unhappy and stay for financial, kids, etc. I think it is so sad. I would feel like a doormat. I don't think anything is worth sacrificing your heart and soul. To stay for the kids is setting a terrible example that it is okay to accept a cheating spouse. I think some people deserve a second chance if they are truly in love with their spouse. (But then again if they were truly in love they wouldn't cheat inthe first place. I just know I couldn't stay with someone who only wanted to be with me out of guilt and obligation.

[stoopid_guy]

I guess everyone's idea of marriage and restored marriage is different. At base, I would say restored after infidelity would be a continued working together to love, respect and be honest with your spouse. Not that you always achieve it but that you are both trying... Heck, I don't know:confused:

Then I think it's possible. I don't think it'll ever be like it was before the affair. But on the other hand, relationships evolve anyway. I doubt many have the same relationship after ten years that they had at one year.

 

"Marriage" is a complex term. It means a lot of different things, and it is a lot of different things.

[LakesideDream]

I'm not sure marriages can be "restored", after all you cannot un-ring a bell. What can happen is that a relationship can be rebuilt by taking the good that remains and building around that.

 

The above can work when the BS and WS are both willing and committed. I cannot imagine a more difficult interpersonal task.

 

That being said, I personally don't/wouldn't bother. I believe it's a waste of time. I am no longer willing to "play that game".

[kellyp1]

I think a lot of people stay for fear of change too. Mutual friends are shared, your favorite stores, etc... Both lives would be changed and it requires work. Most people can't deal with the change.

[Chapter2]

I think a lot of people stay for fear of change too. Mutual friends are shared, your favorite stores, etc... Both lives would be changed and it requires work. Most people can't deal with the change.

 

True, the change is terrifying I imagine... the dissolution of just two people could have an effect on 50 people's lives depending on the size of the family, extended family, friends, etc. Both options, staying and leaving, look like a living hell. But, the difference is that one hell is known and comfortable and you know you can live in it since you're doing it anyway....staying in the relationship if its truly a corpse. The other hell, the unknown, is totally unfamiliar and scary but is also the only course for a better, healthier life for all concerned. No wonder people are frozen in one place for so long...

 

Another issue is that none of the pieces in the relationship stay the same from day to day so a "final decision" is hard to come by since all the pieces are so fluid. One day you think one thing about a certain perspective and the next could be completely different depending on the other persons attitude, emotions, etc.

 

I'm rambling now....sorry.

 

I'm not sure marriages can be "restored", after all you cannot un-ring a bell. What can happen is that a relationship can be rebuilt by taking the good that remains and building around that.

 

The above can work when the BS and WS are both willing and committed. I cannot imagine a more difficult interpersonal task.

 

That being said, I personally don't/wouldn't bother. I believe it's a waste of time. I am no longer willing to "play that game".

 

Good point. You're right, restoration is probably the wrong word...rebuilt is a better term and much more fitting for what couples are faced with.

 

I also agree that the task of rebuilding seems so HUGE that most would give up, me included. I can't imagine both in the relationship have the same motive and same enthusiasm for wanting to rebuild if that's the course they've chosen. It seems one is always more intent on saving the relationship and the other is experiencing a "okay, I'll try" attitude. Not that all couples are the same but no two people are ever exactly in the same place at the same time irregardless of the type of relationship it is.

[michelangelo]

Self delusion of things improving some day.

 

Real concern for the children's future.

 

Resignation that there is nothing better out there

 

Ennui

 

Financial disaster avoidance

 

etc.

[silktricks]

I was completely positive that I had posted a comment on this thread, but since it doesn't seem to be here, maybe I had a mental "crash". Anyway, here are my thoughts:

 

First, as stoopid_guy said it depends on what you are defining as marriage, restored to what? There are a number of different definitions of what constitutes a "good" marriage - adultery is usually not part of the definition, so it's questionable as to what you are talking about for restoration. For purposes of discussion I'll make my own definition. Restoration is the shape the marriage was in before it deteriorated to the point that one of the partners felt the need/desire to have an affair.

 

OK, given that the betrayed spouse takes equal blame for what went wrong in the marriage in the first place, I think that the possibility of "restoration" is actually quite good. Most of the time, though, I believe (based mostly on what I've read here) the betrayed spouse takes the point of view that no matter what, their partner should not have strayed. In a perfect world, that would be perfectly true, but this world ain't perfect. People being what people are, they make lousy decisions based on how lousy they are feeling.

 

So, if BOTH partners take responsibility for the problems in the marriage, if BOTH partners work hard at restoring the marriage, if BOTH partners deeply love one another and BOTH partners resolve to change their actions (and reactions) then I think the odds of the marriage not only surviving, but oftentimes improving upon what it was before is really quite good. If either partner, however, decides to place all blame for the issues onto the other, then in my opinion, the marriage is doomed.

[Hard2Think]

Silktricks,

 

Well said ..

[Freedom Now]

And the basic building block of RESPECT must be intact with both partners.

 

For if one of the marriage partners does not respect the other, the marriage is doomed.

 

There can be no love without respect.

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

 

OK, given that the betrayed spouse takes equal blame for what went wrong in the marriage in the first place, I think that the possibility of "restoration" is actually quite good.

 

That is bunk. The betrayed spouse is never resonsible for their louse spouse's betrayal. Nobody can make someone be a liar and cheater. Someone can only choose to be a cheater.

 

No matter what the problems are in a marriage, the only honorable thing is to get a divorce first. The cheater is never honorable.

 

People being what people are, they make lousy decisions based on how lousy they are feeling.

Yeah, and some people feel lousy and shoot up schools. what a bunch of crap. There is no excuse that justifies cheating.

 

if BOTH partners deeply love one another

How can a cheater possibly say they love their spouse when they do the most horrible thing someone can do to another person? The only person a cheater loves is themselves.

 

and BOTH partners resolve to change their actions (and reactions) then I think the odds of the marriage not only surviving, but oftentimes improving upon what it was before is really quite good. If either partner, however, decides to place all blame for the issues onto the other, then in my opinion, the marriage is doomed.

The time for all the soul searching and fixing up a bad marriage is before an affair, not after.

[stoopid_guy]

That is bunk. The betrayed spouse is never resonsible for their louse spouse's betrayal. Nobody can make someone be a liar and cheater. Someone can only choose to be a cheater.

 

No matter what the problems are in a marriage, the only honorable thing is to get a divorce first. The cheater is never honorable.

Cheating isn't honorable, but it is often the symptom of deeper problems that either spouse could/should have addressed sooner.

 

How can a cheater possibly say they love their spouse when they do the most horrible thing someone can do to another person? The only person a cheater loves is themselves.

The most horrible thing they could do? I'd much rather have my spouse cheat on me than move out and away with our kid, or kill one of our pets, or any number of things I could think of.

 

There are different types of love too. You don't have to feel romantic love toward someone to care about their feelings.

 

Flyin, it would be nice if the world was as simple as you'd like it to be, but it's not.

[Flyin in Clouds]

Cheating isn't honorable, but it is often the symptom of deeper problems that either spouse could/should have addressed sooner.

 

So two wrongs make a right? As in a right to have an affair? Come on... sure there are things people do that drive someone with a lower moral character to have an affair, but that doesn't mean they should choose that path over dealing with their spouse.

 

The most horrible thing they could do? I'd much rather have my spouse cheat on me than move out and away with our kid,

Are you sure they are your kids? If your wife cheats on you you better get a DNA test or they could just be some other guys kids.

 

or kill one of our pets,

That is sick ... you'd rather have your wife screw some guy than have her kill your dog? That is so sick... animal lovers... some of the ...

 

or any number of things I could think of.

Sorry, I can't think of anything worse my wife could do to me. Stab me in the head with a fork? (a4a's favortie punishment). Nah. It would be far kinder if she stabbed be straight thru the heart than cheated on me.

 

There are different types of love too. You don't have to feel romantic love toward someone to care about their feelings.

Uh, sure. I care about my kids feelings. I care about my good friend's feelings. I care about her welfare and her kids. Long time friend of the family. But if my wife's friend is out screwing ten different guys a week that doesn't affect me or my caring about her feelings...

 

Flyin, it would be nice if the world was as simple as you'd like it to be, but it's not.

That argument is always the excuse of last resort. Well the world is just too complext to be moral.

 

Sorry the world is simple. There is right and wrong. It's not all complex and unsolvable. You don't lie, you don't cheat, you don't steal your neighbor's wife, nor his ox nor ... it really is that simple.

[Hard2Think]

So is that why you're here? I guess it must be gratifying to come to a board like this one where people admit to "immorality" and be able to berate them, using your own high and mighty morality as a weapon ..

 

 

 

..

That argument is always the excuse of last resort. Well the world is just too complext to be moral.

 

Sorry the world is simple. There is right and wrong. It's not all complex and unsolvable. You don't lie, you don't cheat, you don't steal your neighbor's wife, nor his ox nor ... it really is that simple.

[catgirl1927]

So we don't live in a world where there is right and wrong, but rather where when someone does something awful to us we're supposed to say, hey, at least he didn't kill my dog?

 

I'd leave someone for killing my dog OR for cheating. Because I don't want to be in a relationship with a bad person.

 

Being unhappy in a relationship does not justify cheating. I do believe in grey areas, but that's not one of them. You can justify any behavior if you try hard enough.

[stoopid_guy]

So two wrongs make a right? As in a right to have an affair? Come on... sure there are things people do that drive someone with a lower moral character to have an affair, but that doesn't mean they should choose that path over dealing with their spouse.

Not at all, but not all circumstances are the same.

Sorry, I can't think of anything worse my wife could do to me. Stab me in the head with a fork? (a4a's favortie punishment). Nah. It would be far kinder if she stabbed be straight thru the heart than cheated on me.

Those are your feelings, but not necessarily everyone's. Not saying cheating is good, but I can think of far worse things. You hear of BSs taking back WSs quite a bit here, and they're often applauded for working things out. I doubt anyone would be applauded for taking back an abusive spouse though.

That argument is always the excuse of last resort. Well the world is just too complext to be moral.

 

Sorry the world is simple. There is right and wrong. It's not all complex and unsolvable. You don't lie, you don't cheat, you don't steal your neighbor's wife, nor his ox nor ... it really is that simple.

There's nothing simple about morality, everyone has their own ideas of right and wrong and degrees of both. Life is full of tough choices.

[silktricks]

That is bunk. The betrayed spouse is never resonsible for their louse spouse's betrayal. Nobody can make someone be a liar and cheater. Someone can only choose to be a cheater.

 

Well, if you'd actually read what I said instead of simply reacting, you'd see that I didn't say the BS was responsible for the betrayal, I said they had equal responsibility for the problems in the marriage that led up to the betrayal. That is a totally different thing. Rarely will a person cheat when they are in a happy relationship. What usually leads up to a person cheating is unhappiness. Two people cause that problem. I also don't believe that cheating is what should occur, only that too often it is what does occur.

 

No matter what the problems are in a marriage, the only honorable thing is to get a divorce first. The cheater is never honorable.

I would agree with this. Cheating is pretty much by definition dishonorable. A person who cheats, however, is not necessarily automatically a total cad. A lot of people who are good and decent make some really pitiful choices in life. I am of the opinion that people shouldn't have to pay forever because they have done something stupid AND show deep regret for those actions.

 

{snip}

 

How can a cheater possibly say they love their spouse when they do the most horrible thing someone can do to another person? The only person a cheater loves is themselves.

If you really truly believe that this is the most horrible thing someone can do to another person you have led an unbelievably sheltered life.

 

The time for all the soul searching and fixing up a bad marriage is before an affair, not after.

Well, that's certainly the best time, but it isn't the only time.

 

Now, that I've responded to all of your comments, please understand that what began this thread was a question. The question was:

 

If a WS stays in the marriage due to any reason other than truly wanting to restore the marriage based on true conviction for their actions (not just guilt) but conviction that brings change, does the marriage have a chance?

 

I believe it does - but only if BOTH people are willing to put their whole souls into resolving their issues.

[Foreign affair]

I appreciate your comments as I too always thought if there was ever an affair that would be it, I couldn't live with the lack of trust. However it did happen and very recently. If I look back objectively I can see why, I was very ill, we have three young children we have an incredibly close relationship and I just couldn't be there for him when he needed me most, his mother had the same illness as me and he always blamed himself for her illness and was then seeing me in the same amount of pain, instead of supporting me, he couldn't take the pain and sought attention in the arms of someone who had been chasing him for a long time.

 

WHilst I don't think any of the above is an excuse for his actions - he could have found the strength to say no, and of course in reality I am hurting more than I believed possible, I do think there are circumstances that arise where anyone is tested and surely people deserve a second chance, I do not doubt his love for me, and am hoping that given time we can learn from the experience and come out a little older, a little wiser, more forgiving and understanding that things aren't black or white there are grey areas and more importantly live a happy, loving life together for ourselves and our children.

[michelangelo]

Murder, dismembering, rape, genocide, torture, cancer, and so forth, can we agree that infidelity is devastating to spouses who encounter their partner has cheated?

 

Digesting such a thing can be an all-consuming pain, highly personal in nature. The fallout can be so painful to someone who has been cheated upon that they go into a tailspin of depression and grief.

 

Telling someone that they must have lived a sheltered life because they say it is the worst thing ignores the expression of pain the comment was about.

[silktricks]

Having been the BS twice in two different marriages, and experiencing the last slightly over two years ago, I am well aware of the pain and anguish related to the betrayal by your spouse. I do not have any desire to belittle FIC's pain.

 

However, to say that adultery is the worst thing one person can do to another is dramatizing the situation out of bounds. Over dramatization of pain does not lead to healing; it only leads to continued self-pity. I am not a big believer in playing the victim role, not for anyone. I am a believer in getting well, in healing the wounds and getting on with life, either by working on the relationship together, or getting out and moving on. Neither of those goals can be accomplished while wallowing in martyrdom - no matter how enticing self-immolation can be on occasion.

 

This site is a wonderful resource for talking (well, writing) out the pain, but it becomes useless if there aren't also people who are willing to expose themselves by providing their own opinion. I thank you for your doing so. I'm certain that you don't mind me doing so as well.