buzzie2 Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 What are some early warning signs to watch out for when you first start dating a guy that he may become abusive?
LaughMachine Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 aggresiveness. Making you feel bad for things demanding... alot of things...wait on some other advice though:)
missy77 Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 Dominating Pretends like he is hitting you
nicki Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 I was married to an abusive man. It was confusing in the beginning. And I thought I knew what red flags to look for. Looking back, I really didn't. Abusive behavior can start out in such a subtle, under the radar manner. When I first met my ex, he was very charming and helpful. His behavior escalated so slowly that I didn't even know what was going on until years later, when my self esteem was in the basement. Here's my top ten list: 1. Overly helpful and concerned and wants to know where you are all the time. You think it's cute that he talked your landlord into letting him into your apartment because you were late in calling to tell him you got home. It's not. It's controlling. 2. Isolates you from friends and family. Tells you they are stupid, boring, whatever. 3. Puts you down frequently, in a way that seems helpful. This applies to everything from the way you wash dishes to your opinions. He will tell you that he is "trying to help you." He will make you think he is smarter, wiser and that you should listen to him. Very sneaky. Power trip for him. 4. Tells you that your goals are unattainable. That your dreams aren't realistic. Is helpful in giving you new ones, that are (surprise!) his. 5. Complains that you are too "friendly" to people. (designed to isolate you.) 6. Blames you for everything that goes wrong in his life, illogically, but you begin to believe him. 7. Tells you that you do things on purpose to make him mad. 8. Has mood swings and is affectionate one minute, and mad and distant the next. Acts punitively for no real reason. Then apologizes profusely, begging for your forgiveness. This becomes a cycle where you can't predict what will set him off. 9. Acts selfishly. You notice that he doesn't really do anything that you want because YOU want him to. He has to "agree" that it's reasonable, important, whatever. 10. Acts entitled, like a king. Treats you as an assistant. You feel powerless. Again, this kind of behavior can begin in a very subtle way. It will escalate over time. Remember abusers can start off very charming in order to get you to drop your guard. The best advice I can tell you is to watch for a guy's sense of empathy. He should be able to understand how other people feel, even if he doesn't feel that way himself. An abusive guy doesn't consider the feelings of others. He will think he is better than everyone else, and his is the only opinion that is real. Hope this helps!
luvtoto Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 I was in an abusive relationship ten years ago. This is what I learned. When you first meet him, things will be wonderful. BUT, he'll start hinting as to why you hang out with certain friends. He'll try to make you feel guilty for spending time with other people. He'll try to isolate you. He will want to be the center of your world, your only support system. Even try to discourage time spent with your family. His relationship with his family is probably not so good. Will probably be warned by some members that he is abusive. When asked about his past relationships, he will blame everything on his X. Take no responsibility for his own demise in the relationship. Once he has pretty much isolated you from friends and family, which could take months...the abuse will then set in. Little episodes at first, then bigger and bigger. You will be trapped because of the isolation techniques he has used earlier on in the relationship. Also, before he starts hitting you...he will start to break other things first. Then, you are next my dear. It's all about the controller being in control. But, if you do not recognize the red flags...this control technique could happen without you even knowing it's going on. Hope this helps. Every single woman in the dating world, should familiarize themselves with these 'red flags'.
Art_Critic Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 I was in an abusive relationship ten years ago. This is what I learned. When you first meet him, things will be wonderful. BUT, he'll start hinting as to why you hang out with certain friends. He'll try to make you feel guilty for spending time with other people. He'll try to isolate you. He will want to be the center of your world, your only support system. Even try to discourage time spent with your family. His relationship with his family is probably not so good. Will probably be warned by some members that he is abusive. When asked about his past relationships, he will blame everything on his X. Take no responsibility for his own demise in the relationship. Once he has pretty much isolated you from friends and family, which could take months...the abuse will then set in. Little episodes at first, then bigger and bigger. You will be trapped because of the isolation techniques he has used earlier on in the relationship. Also, before he starts hitting you...he will start to break other things first. Then, you are next my dear. It's all about the controller being in control. But, if you do not recognize the red flags...this control technique could happen without you even knowing it's going on. Hope this helps. Every single woman in the dating world, should familiarize themselves with these 'red flags'. These are very good luvtoto These traits also apply to abusive women as well. As someone who was married to a physically abusive woman I can testify that the traits apply to both sexes and not just men
luvtoto Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 These are very good luvtoto These traits also apply to abusive women as well. As someone who was married to a physically abusive woman I can testify that the traits apply to both sexes and not just men Thanks, Art_Critic. You are right!! The abuse in the beginning of a relationship is hardest to detect, but it's possible if you know what to look for.
Shana555 Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 One guy I dated, I only saw that side of him when he would drink. He would constantly get into fights. One drunk night, he was mad at me and elbowed me in the eye. Gave me a nice shiner!!! Abusive!!! I should have seen that one coming. Or ducked. Be very careful of drinkers that get aggressive and ones that have terriable tempers. Edit: my temper is going to come out soon. I don't understand the whole established member thing. I see people with under 100 posts being established, and ones over 100 posts not established. I want to PM so badly! Sorry, back on track. buzzie2 , how are you doing? I'm a bit worried about you if you are asking about abusive red flags. Are you seeing a lot in your relationship?
Author buzzie2 Posted September 29, 2006 Author Posted September 29, 2006 Thank you everyone for your suggestions. In the last post I was asked how I was doing; well these are the things that have happened in my relationship with my bf. Well in the beginning like many of you have stated he was SO charming and SO polite and attentive. I was really swept away at first so by the time he started to abuse me I had already fallen under his "spell". By then it was to hard to turn away because I thought I had met my dream guy. The first thing he ever did that was really out of line; we were jamming together on our quitars. I was having trouble playing one of the cords and I was going to look at my instruction book instead of watching him. Then he exploded in a rage yelling "you arent listening to me". Completely innapropriate behavior if you ask me. The scariest thing about it is he never even apologized or anything; he just acted right after his outburst like nothing had happened. It started going down hill from there. (I actually now looking back on this think it was his way of "testing" me; to see how much he could get away with). Then he started critizizing me. First in a nice way to I think try to help me; but then it got to the point where it was flat out abuse. He used encourage me to find work because for a while I was on disability for an old injury. (although I was volunteering). But then he started getting mean and made me cry in public by saying I was just "living of the system". He would also say I needed to lose 15 pounds; and that I looked better with contacts. The worst thing he did was one night after drinking with his friends; he walked up to me in the restaurant outside of the bathroom drunk. I told him I wanted to go home because his friends made me uncomfortable. He stuck his face in mine and yelled "I"M SO SORRY". I am scared of what else he'll do and I always feel I am walking on eggshells with him. It's hard because I do love him.
Craig Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 I got this from my experience as a survivor/victim of DV. Hope it helps someone. Your partner has: Low self esteemTraditional gender role expectationsAn abusive family background substance addictionMood swingsLow frustration tolerancePoor impulse controlAn explosive temperA tendency to think or expect the worstA sense of entitlementA narcissistic 'world view'Chronic feelings of helplessness/hopelessnessAbsent or poor communication skillsA Self righteous attitudeA domineering or rigid personalityUnrealistic expectations of othersChronic difficulty with work of interpersonal relationshipsChronic job dissatisfactionA passive-aggressive style of relatingDifficulty setting or respecting limitsA history of antisocial or criminal actsIntrustion/Possession, needs to know where you are, who you're with, what you were doing, when you will be home, etc.No independence, lacks hobbies and individual interests, unable to be alone, can take care of their own problems and feelings, needs you to be there for them constantly and "fix" things for them. Your partner expect you to be there for them at the expense of everything else in your life.Few or no friends, volatile or cut off relationships with family, lack of long term friendships, superficial relationships. Your partner is: Excessively dependent on othersParanoidJealousAuthoritarianControllingDemandingCriticalVerbally abusiveViolentWithdrawnA 'loner'Incapable of give and takeUnable to set appropriate boundaries and respect boundaries of othersA habitual liarUnwilling or unable to see the other person's perspectiveChronically sick for 'emotional reasons'AvoidantAnxiousHistrionicObsessive/CompulsiveUnstable and intenseWants commitment immediately, professes to love you "at first sight"Isolates you from family and friends, insisting you spend all free time together, ridicules or discourages you from doing things you like.
Guest Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 I think it's important to note that the person doesn't have to have ALL those characteristics. There are quite a few DV websites that list signs of abuse/abusers. You can google that and find them.
allina Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 I've had one relationship with a guy that I consider abusive. I was 18 and looking back it was different from the beginning. The first thing I noticed was he said "I love you" after 2 weeks or so, I found it weird and didn't say it back, he got angry but I just assumed he was hurt. Soon he started being crazy and insulting to me about my past relationships (I dont have a big past just the fact that I had bfs before) One night he was drunk and screamed at me for no reason, called me a ****ing bitch, this all happend early and fast in the relationship. The day after this happened I broke it off and got slammed against a wall. He begged me to take him back but I havent spoken to him since that night and never will again. This was 5 years ago and it taught me a major lesson.
rina_r Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 Lying. Anyway, those guys are smart enough to keep themselves well behaving until they get you in their hands.
sloane Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 I got this from my experience as a survivor/victim of DV. Hope it helps someone. Your partner has: Low self esteemTraditional gender role expectationsAn abusive family background substance addictionMood swingsLow frustration tolerancePoor impulse controlAn explosive temperA tendency to think or expect the worstA sense of entitlementA narcissistic 'world view'Chronic feelings of helplessness/hopelessnessAbsent or poor communication skillsA Self righteous attitudeA domineering or rigid personalityUnrealistic expectations of othersChronic difficulty with work of interpersonal relationshipsChronic job dissatisfactionA passive-aggressive style of relatingDifficulty setting or respecting limitsA history of antisocial or criminal actsIntrustion/Possession, needs to know where you are, who you're with, what you were doing, when you will be home, etc.No independence, lacks hobbies and individual interests, unable to be alone, can take care of their own problems and feelings, needs you to be there for them constantly and "fix" things for them. Your partner expect you to be there for them at the expense of everything else in your life.Few or no friends, volatile or cut off relationships with family, lack of long term friendships, superficial relationships. Your partner is: Excessively dependent on othersParanoidJealousAuthoritarianControllingDemandingCriticalVerbally abusiveViolentWithdrawnA 'loner'Incapable of give and takeUnable to set appropriate boundaries and respect boundaries of othersA habitual liarUnwilling or unable to see the other person's perspectiveChronically sick for 'emotional reasons'AvoidantAnxiousHistrionicObsessive/CompulsiveUnstable and intenseWants commitment immediately, professes to love you "at first sight"Isolates you from family and friends, insisting you spend all free time together, ridicules or discourages you from doing things you like. wow, what a great list. i want to make an observation, though...these traits may well describe a person who may become abusive and/or even violent, but may also describe a case of personality disorder or bipolar disorder
lonelybird Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 * VERY charming and woo you like tomorrow not coming in the beginning * claim he was HURT by his exes deeply * when you ask him to do something, he just do the contrary (the middle stage) * say things always left room for you to image, 200% bad thing (abusive), when you ask him to clarify, then he deny and say you make up things * always disclaim your feeling comes nowhere, and you are emotional (try to make your feeling numb) * hold back emotionally * you is extremely attracted to him sexually ahhhh goodbye bastard:mad:
nicki Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 I would also like to emphasize that an abusive man will: * Discount your emotions. * Make you feel like YOU are crazy. * Test to see how much you will push back if he acts in a slightly abusive way. If he can get away with it, abuse will escalate from there. * Make you feel like you are walking on egg shells (as another poster said.) He will also make you feel you must watch what you say. * Tell you no other man will put up with you (once abuse cycle is firmly in place. But at the beginning of the relationship he will tell you that no other man will ever love you as much as he does.) **** My abusive ex told me I was so easy going and understanding that it was easy to get me to move my boundaries. I always thought everything was temporary and situational. Like he had a bad day, etc. Didn't mean to be such a an a**. These guys are very good at being charming and vulnerable acting when they want your sympathy. Or when you are getting ready to leave them after an abusive episode. They will cry, plead....and then do it all over again. I don't put up with sh*t now from any guy. I call them on sketchy behavior early and if they don't change it, I leave. No way I would ever enable abusive behavior again. But, it's hard to know what their behavior looks like in the beginning, when you still have enough self esteem to walk away. I think the abusive guys know which women will take their abuse. They do test us. These guys will show their ugly abusive sides soon enough. So it's good to watch them under stress. And leave quickly if you see a pattern of abusive behavior. I no longer give the guy the benefit of the doubt. One bad day and a guy is grumpy, okay. Several bad days and he takes it out on me personally and he makes me feel bad or is disrespectful, then bye bye. I think women stay too long hoping the guy will revert back to the charming guy they fell in love with. But that guy doesn't exist anymore.
luvtoto Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 I would also like to emphasize that an abusive man will: * Discount your emotions. * Make you feel like YOU are crazy. * Test to see how much you will push back if he acts in a slightly abusive way. If he can get away with it, abuse will escalate from there. * Make you feel like you are walking on egg shells (as another poster said.) He will also make you feel you must watch what you say. * Tell you no other man will put up with you (once abuse cycle is firmly in place. But at the beginning of the relationship he will tell you that no other man will ever love you as much as he does.) **** My abusive ex told me I was so easy going and understanding that it was easy to get me to move my boundaries. I always thought everything was temporary and situational. Like he had a bad day, etc. Didn't mean to be such a an a**. These guys are very good at being charming and vulnerable acting when they want your sympathy. Or when you are getting ready to leave them after an abusive episode. They will cry, plead....and then do it all over again. I don't put up with sh*t now from any guy. I call them on sketchy behavior early and if they don't change it, I leave. No way I would ever enable abusive behavior again. But, it's hard to know what their behavior looks like in the beginning, when you still have enough self esteem to walk away. I think the abusive guys know which women will take their abuse. They do test us. These guys will show their ugly abusive sides soon enough. So it's good to watch them under stress. And leave quickly if you see a pattern of abusive behavior. I no longer give the guy the benefit of the doubt. One bad day and a guy is grumpy, okay. Several bad days and he takes it out on me personally and he makes me feel bad or is disrespectful, then bye bye. I think women stay too long hoping the guy will revert back to the charming guy they fell in love with. But that guy doesn't exist anymore. Hopefully, if a person can recognize the *early* signs/red flags, the relationship will never progress to worse.
Craig Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 wow, what a great list. i want to make an observation, though...these traits may well describe a person who may become abusive and/or even violent, but may also describe a case of personality disorder or bipolar disorderSloane you are correct in your observation (from what I know) and from my experience and research there is a high prevalence of borderline personality disorder in women that abuse and antisocial personality disorder in men that abuse. But other personality disorders like narcissism and OCPD, etc. can also be present either alone or along with other personality disorders.
riobikini Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 Nikki, your first post (as well as your add-on) had all the info needed to spot abusers (of women) who are more controlling in their abuse, and slightly less frequently physically violent -although physical violence is certainly never out of the question, and does happen. They consider themselves superiorly intelligent and sophisticated, and are great liars (to themselves, to the rest of the world -and especially to their victims) -as well as talented actors. But never doubt his ability to hurt you seriously in a physical way. Craig listed the characteristics of another particular type of abuser who usually favors the physical violence (first) towards their victims, slightly more than the manipulative control measures of the abuser Nikki described. A look into the background of the type of abuser Craig described, usually uncovers alcohol or drug abuse, as well as -often- lots of physical domestic violence in the family while he (or she) was growing up. His lack of positive self-esteeem is clearly obvious most of the time, and he normally has a quick, violent, and very dangerous temper (extremely serious anger management problem). Both of these types of abusers share many of the very same characteristics as each of you disclosed in your lists, but the key to identifying why one would choose -or prefer- his method of enacting a particular *kind* of abuse rather than the method of abuse being used by another is found somewhere in their respective individual background schemata. Thanks to both of you, for sharing such valuable information. -Rio
nicki Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 hope it helps...thanks, Rio I think it's interesting that you talked about the two different kinds of abusers. It reminded me of something my ex told me after he went through a domestic violence rehab course. He said that emotional abuse often times escalates into physical abuse when the emotional abuse alone isn't working to control the woman. Then the abuser will become more and more physical in order to control her. It's like a new tool in his tool box. So, emotionally abusive men can easily become physically abusive, too. That's what happened with my ex. He was emotionally abusive for years, and physically abusive once. I left him immediately after it happened. I swear the emotional abuse was worse because I had no outward bruises to show the inner painful blows. Once I had the outward bruises, it was more socially recognizable to leave....crazy, but true... Wish I had left years before. That's why I think this is a GREAT post to help warn people of the red flags early on in their relationships. Thanks, Buzzie, for starting it.
riobikini Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 (Smile) You're welcome, Nikkie. (And -yes- thanks goes to Buzzie2 for starting the thread ) To further comment: it's only when you find yourself standing in front of a woman (or a girl) and look into eyes that are severely bloodshot and swollen completely shut (or nearly) from pounding, and gashes that will surely leave noticeable scars and possibly permanent eye damage- when you already know that her head injuries equal permanent hearing damage (or worse)- when you peer into a face that's so discolored, distorted, and sewn, pinned, or wired back together, yet one more time- when you are aware that, this time, that broken arm will never heal properly, or that wrist will require metal for repairing it, instead of bone- or when you realize she is trying to tell you something, but you can't understand because of the missing teeth, swollen lips, and wired jaw- that you begin to take on very different views about domestic violence, or any abuse of any kind in our human society. More than just the surgical repair of skin tissue, and broken bones, and damaged body systems are required for the injuries I mention above. Trouble is -those injuries are the most resistant to healing. Even one person who is abused is one too many -women, children, anyone. -Rio
lonelybird Posted September 30, 2006 Posted September 30, 2006 I would also like to emphasize that an abusive man will: * Discount your emotions. * Make you feel like YOU are crazy. * Test to see how much you will push back if he acts in a slightly abusive way. If he can get away with it, abuse will escalate from there. * Make you feel like you are walking on egg shells (as another poster said.) He will also make you feel you must watch what you say. * Tell you no other man will put up with you (once abuse cycle is firmly in place. But at the beginning of the relationship he will tell you that no other man will ever love you as much as he does.) **** could not speak more well sometimes I still confuse about this point My abusive ex told me I was so easy going and understanding that it was easy to get me to move my boundaries. other red flag I can see and aware not put up with these, but this one I don't know when I should NOT be understandable, like "he forget my b-day;he is busy...blah blah", in the end I got angry with myself for being so understandable. and then the way I deal with this situation is "pull back" until I see some his good gesture. maybe one day I would pull way too far back, and not see him again.
nicki Posted September 30, 2006 Posted September 30, 2006 Yes, EXACTLY! It's hard to know when NOT to be understanding. If a guy forgot my birthday and he was otherwise thoughtful, I once might have let him off the hook. Now, I'm not so quick to give a guy the benefit of the doubt. I would express my disappointment and see what he did about it. I like your idea of pulling back and waiting for a guy to show some good gestures. Then adding some of your own good gestures. I suppose that's what we call reciprocity. My sister calls it meeting people on the same level. If they give, you give. Maybe you give once and they don't, that's okay. But if you try a few times and they give nothing back, then stop giving until they do. My problem was that I thought I should be giving all the time, even if a guy was being a jerk. I had the misguided thought that I could teach him by being a good role model. For instance, if he wasn't complimenting me, then I would compliment him often. I thought I could teach him to be more thoughtful (even if he had already shown me he could be thoughtful and express compliments, but chose not to do it now.) Now, this works for a guy who is a true equal partner and wants to please you. He just may have gotten lazy and is ready now to give you want you want. He cares. An abuser does NOT care, so it doesn't work. Abusers, are inconsistent with displays of love and affection. It's done to confuse the woman and keep her off-balance. In the beginning, an abuser will heap on the praise and compliments. The woman will get used to it. She'll think that the guy is very thoughtful and loving. Then he will withdraw and spoon out affection and praise. He will do this in order to control the woman and keep her off balance. She will become unsettled, try to recapture his attentions. She will wonder what she can do to get him to be "nice" and loving again. She will be very confused as to what is going on and become overly understanding. Her thought process will be that he just needs more love and patience. Wrong. That will make things worse, and lessen her power while he grows more powerful in her eyes. On the other hand, good guys are consistently good and loving. They consistently give. Reciprocity is easy with them. You can predict their giving nature. Power is equalized. I try to be more of a taker now than a giver, and it's helped me to have a more equal relationship so we are both givers and takers. So, I think you make an excellent point.
lonelybird Posted October 1, 2006 Posted October 1, 2006 Yes, EXACTLY! It's hard to know when NOT to be understanding. If a guy forgot my birthday and he was otherwise thoughtful, I once might have let him off the hook. Now, I'm not so quick to give a guy the benefit of the doubt. I would express my disappointment and see what he did about it. I like your idea of pulling back and waiting for a guy to show some good gestures. Then adding some of your own good gestures. I suppose that's what we call reciprocity. My sister calls it meeting people on the same level. If they give, you give. Maybe you give once and they don't, that's okay. But if you try a few times and they give nothing back, then stop giving until they do. My problem was that I thought I should be giving all the time, even if a guy was being a jerk. I had the misguided thought that I could teach him by being a good role model. For instance, if he wasn't complimenting me, then I would compliment him often. I thought I could teach him to be more thoughtful (even if he had already shown me he could be thoughtful and express compliments, but chose not to do it now.) Now, this works for a guy who is a true equal partner and wants to please you. He just may have gotten lazy and is ready now to give you want you want. He cares. An abuser does NOT care, so it doesn't work. Abusers, are inconsistent with displays of love and affection. It's done to confuse the woman and keep her off-balance. In the beginning, an abuser will heap on the praise and compliments. The woman will get used to it. She'll think that the guy is very thoughtful and loving. Then he will withdraw and spoon out affection and praise. He will do this in order to control the woman and keep her off balance. She will become unsettled, try to recapture his attentions. She will wonder what she can do to get him to be "nice" and loving again. She will be very confused as to what is going on and become overly understanding. Her thought process will be that he just needs more love and patience. Wrong. That will make things worse, and lessen her power while he grows more powerful in her eyes. On the other hand, good guys are consistently good and loving. They consistently give. Reciprocity is easy with them. You can predict their giving nature. Power is equalized. I try to be more of a taker now than a giver, and it's helped me to have a more equal relationship so we are both givers and takers. So, I think you make an excellent point. Awesome! make much more sense Thank you for sharing:rolleyes:
Rooster_DAR Posted October 1, 2006 Posted October 1, 2006 I was in an abusive relationship ten years ago. This is what I learned. When you first meet him, things will be wonderful. BUT, he'll start hinting as to why you hang out with certain friends. He'll try to make you feel guilty for spending time with other people. He'll try to isolate you. He will want to be the center of your world, your only support system. Even try to discourage time spent with your family. His relationship with his family is probably not so good. Will probably be warned by some members that he is abusive. When asked about his past relationships, he will blame everything on his X. Take no responsibility for his own demise in the relationship. Once he has pretty much isolated you from friends and family, which could take months...the abuse will then set in. Little episodes at first, then bigger and bigger. You will be trapped because of the isolation techniques he has used earlier on in the relationship. Also, before he starts hitting you...he will start to break other things first. Then, you are next my dear. It's all about the controller being in control. But, if you do not recognize the red flags...this control technique could happen without you even knowing it's going on. Hope this helps. Every single woman in the dating world, should familiarize themselves with these 'red flags'. LOL!!!! You just described my recent EX g/f.
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