Busted...

[RuralProblems]

(earlier I meant to say she may be having affairs because she is bored and may feel like you see her now as uninteresting little house bitch--sorry, but I do know alot of women who feel that way. Not that an affair is an excuse or remedy for that, but I do think it makes one more vulnerable to male attention just to validate ones worth, if that makes sense)

There is probably some truth to that. I tried to talk her into taking on a job because I'm at home all of the time (I work from here), and being responsible for the kids wouldn't be a huge deal. She wasn't interested. There aren't many good jobs around here, but she could have found something I'm sure, possibly even in her field.

[Craig]

Why the need to 'catch' her? If you want a divorce....then get one.

 

FYI-as far as the financial aspect-the courts won't give a rats a$$ if she's had an affair.

 

custody-again, courts won't care unless she's having sex in front of the kids.

 

Just get a divorce and move on.

Why catch her? I can see RuralProblems POV on this could be that his wife is very smart, cunning and should people ask in the future why he divorced her it is going to be his word against her formidable verbal skills. Having the 'evidence' will make it easier for him to justify his actions to others should that become necessary at some point. The fact is that without this evidence his wife might very well say that he was the abuser, that he was cheating and that was the reason for the divorce.

 

In addition to the above I think RuralProblems needs the evidence for his own peace of mind that he is doing the right thing (to avoid second guessing himself.) He already was questioning the validity of the CheckMate results so clearly the verbal abuse that his wife has been heaping upon him over the years has taken a toll on him.

[RuralProblems]

Above, i have bolded and underlined a statement in which I need an answer to have my curiosity assuaged...Did checkmate know that you were beginning to question their validity?

No, I hadn't called them other than to ask questions.

 

also, you stated this:

 

I had used CheckMate (with very frequent positive results),

 

I am confused as to why when you recieved very frequent positive results, that was not enough, you actually needed to check for presence of sperm. Also, if you were recieving very frequent positive results, why then were you questioning their validity? Was it denial on your behalf?

Yes, I think it was part that, and part me wondering if the test didn't work properly on panty liners. She started wearing these liners when she went out for her encounters to keep the stuff off of her underwear, I suspect.

 

Lastly, I am wondering something. If you already knew that having rock solid evidence of her amoral behaviour wouldnt yeild you any results as far as the courts were concerned, why did you go to such extremes? Was it to appease your mind?

No, there's actually a bit of psychology involved here. She is the type that would just go wild when confronted with this, and would probably leave (at least until her head cleared), giving me an advantage saying "she left me". Also - her Mom would go positively ballistic with her when this came out, and she might actually be on MY side (the wife says she likes me better than her quite often).

 

That being said, there was a time when I thought it did matter. Until the time that I started dropping it (several months ago), I thought it would work in my favor. So I refocused on documenting the kids behavior and talking to lawyers, psychiatrists, etc. Basically, the only reason I picked up on this trail again is that I knew it would give me psychological leverage, even though it means nothing legally.

[RuralProblems]

What ever you do don't move out of your house. If anyone moves it's going to be her without the kids. After all she's the one that apparently found such delight in feeling 'single' again.

You know, that's the best single piece of advice so far. Right. She'd probably move out to spite me (I think she feels that I can't handle the kids, whereas I know I can). Hmm... Thanks!

[RuralProblems]

In addition to the above I think RuralProblems needs the evidence for his own peace of mind that he is doing the right thing (to avoid second guessing himself.) He already was questioning the validity of the CheckMate results so clearly the verbal abuse that his wife has been heaping upon him over the years has taken a toll on him.

Bingo! You nailed it, better than I was able to say it. There may have been a little bit of vengence involved, as well - I wanted / needed to have her pinned with this thing she did to me.

[climbergirl]

Why catch her? I can see RuralProblems POV on this could be that his wife is very smart, cunning and should people ask in the future why he divorced her it is going to be his word against her formidable verbal skills. Having the 'evidence' will make it easier for him to justify his actions to others should that become necessary at some point. The fact is that without this evidence his wife might very well say that he was the abuser, that he was cheating and that was the reason for the divorce.

 

In addition to the above I think RuralProblems needs the evidence for his own peace of mind that he is doing the right thing (to avoid second guessing himself.) He already was questioning the validity of the CheckMate results so clearly the verbal abuse that his wife has been heaping upon him over the years has taken a toll on him.

 

Peace of mind, I can understand-but seems he's already made up his mind that she's cheating.

 

But justify to whom? I hope to God you don't mean his kids, because that would be sick information to pass on. She's definately wrong IF she's cheating, but to poison their mind against their mother is a form of abuse. And that is something the courts would frown upon.

 

IMO-the OP is portraying himself as this infalliable husband and father. In light of this, it's hard to believe everything he's saying. We're only getting his side, so I'd be very cautious in advising him to screw his wife over and start a custody battle.

[calalily]

Seeing as she makes statements about being trapped, why not encourage her to take the chance of moving to the big city etc. to act like she's single. If you do it as a friendly, helpful gesture, you could have her out, with no way to get back in, ammo to keep the kids and the house. With any luck, she may not come back at all.

 

The other thing to do would be to collect affidavits from friends etc. who have heard her say things that will work in your favour.

[Craig]

But justify to whom? I hope to God you don't mean his kids, because that would be sick information to pass on. She's definately wrong IF she's cheating, but to poison their mind against their mother is a form of abuse. And that is something the courts would frown upon.

I'm not suggesting getting the kids involved in anyway. Consider the possibility that during or after the divorce the wife takes the position that she was the victim and that RuralProblems was the abuser and even the cheater. She has superb verbal and acting skills, he does not (I presume) and people are more likely to believe that a man abused and cheated on his wife than the reverse. Any evidence that RuralProblems gathers might not matter in a divorce or to decide custody but it may help him continue living in his community without people thinking he is the one that abused and cheated--if it ever comes up. I'm not suggesting that RuralProblems advertise the sordid details to the community but if his wife launches a campaign to destroy his character he'll at least have a fighting chance to counter her inappropriate accusations.

 

IMO-the OP is portraying himself as this infalliable husband and father. In light of this, it's hard to believe everything he's saying. We're only getting his side, so I'd be very cautious in advising him to screw his wife over and start a custody battle.

I don't see RuralProblems portraying himself as perfect but I do see him as having been somewhat troubled and confused about his wifes behavior for some time. In fact I'd guess that coming to the conclusion that he should divorce his wife is something that he has avoided for months and now faced with the truth that his abusive wife is also cheating on him there is only one thing that he can reasonably do for himself, for his kids and for his wife and that is to divorce.

 

I don't think I advised him to screw his wife over or start a custody battle.

[climbergirl]

I'm not suggesting getting the kids involved in anyway. Consider the possibility that during or after the divorce the wife takes the position that she was the victim and that RuralProblems was the abuser and even the cheater. She has superb verbal and acting skills, he does not (I presume) and people are more likely to believe that a man abused and cheated on his wife than the reverse. Any evidence that RuralProblems gathers might not matter in a divorce or to decide custody but it may help him continue living in his community without people thinking he is the one that abused and cheated--if it ever comes up. I'm not suggesting that RuralProblems advertise the sordid details to the community but if his wife launches a campaign to destroy his character he'll at least have a fighting chance to counter her inappropriate accusations.

 

I don't see RuralProblems portraying himself as perfect but I do see him as having been somewhat troubled and confused about his wifes behavior for some time. In fact I'd guess that coming to the conclusion that he should divorce his wife is something that he has avoided for months and now faced with the truth that his abusive wife is also cheating on him there is only one thing that he can reasonably do for himself, for his kids and for his wife and that is to divorce.

 

I don't think I advised him to screw his wife over or start a custody battle.

 

 

You're right, I didn't mean to single you out.....I'm sorry. I meant it as a general statement to those posting.

 

My point regarding the OP is this....if he's so concerned about this alleged abuse by her towards their kids, then shouldn't he be concentrating on that/starting divorce proceedings? If this abuse is so bad that he wants sole custody, then why let it go on for almost a year?

 

Either priorities here are whacked or his contentions are (at least partly)BS.

 

 

IMO

[RuralProblems]

Granted, you are only hearing my side, and for all you know I'm a deplorable person. But for the sake of argument... My Mother In Law thinks I'm a great husband / father, as does everyone in the community.

 

I can give you her side in a nutshell (noting that she, though intelligent, probably doesn't see how her behavior caused any of these things):

1) He's cheating on me

2) We don't go out to do much together

3) He goes out and bowls and plays pool (bowl 30 nights a year, pool about 40 nights a year) while I sit at home.

4) He doesn't help with the housework

5) We aren't as intimate as we used to be

6) He doesn't take the kids off of my hands often enough.

 

OK - now to address these:

1) no, I'm not.

2) hard to get / keep a babysitter where we live, and she doesn't like to go anywhere with the kids

3) OK - I need a release from my job, and I never said she can't do anything, in fact I encouraged her to do something - she sits on the board for about six local charity based organizations, and they have very frequent social / business meetings (I believe she does these primarily an excuse to get out of the house and get laid, but that's beside the point for now)

4) Yeah, I do some, but I'm also responsible for maintaining the cars, boats, snowmobiles, bills, checking account, earning the money, all of the yard work, painting, changing light bulbs, computers and software in the house, appliances, and so on. Quite literally, I spend an average of 3 hours a day doing the things around here other than work (counting weekends where I often have 5 hours or more that I have to devote to the above). Oh, and I make the boys their breakfast and lunches in the mornings before school while she sits in bed. I guess I'm an enabler by letter her get away with this, though.

5) be nice to me now and again then - treat me as an equal

6) her primary goal in life is to get away from the kids. I had a mild heart attack 3 years ago, and the first words out of her mouth was "what are we going to do with the kids, who are we going to get to watch them?". In the state I was in, I don't remember which she called first, though, the neighbor to come watch the kids or 911. I do take the boys away for a whole day quite often. And I'm the only one that really "plays" with them ever.

[RuralProblems]

I will not hurt the kids. That is my primary goal, and the only reason that I'm considering just trying to stay together for the kids. If divorce is the only way out, I guess I'll just make damned sure I'm close enough to see them frequently and let the chips fall where they may. But I suspect that she'd be glad just to get away from us.

 

I've tried to separate them as much as possible recently. While I can't get sole custody (it's just too difficult to prove anything that would justify it), I can make their life better. I have been going out of my way more to let them know that they're good kids and making sure that they don't have to deal with their mother much. I set up a game room downstairs so that they would have some separation from her while she's making dinner or watching her evening TV shows. The primary time for problems has been while she is making dinner, and I rearranged my work schedule so that I go down to be with the boys while she does that - this way she won't be able to blame them for as much of whatever goes wrong. And they've learned to not talk to her while she's watching TV, in fact the younger one cries because he has to wait for a commercial to ask her a question or tell her something.

 

The worst thing I've done is to let them know what to do and not do in order to keep her from going balistic. That could be considered subversive, but they actually asked me for that help. I can't remember how many times they've come to me crying asking what they did wrong.

 

I talk to her about this, but that's like talking to a brick wall. She gets furious when confronted with any critisism, no matter how tactfully I try to approach the subject.

[typical]

The one thing that is pervasive througout all of this ordeal is the underlying sensation that I gathered from reading your posts that you would do anything to make it not so, to make things different. Even now, after the betrayal, you hate her but still love her. She drives you to such a fury, and clearly she is your equal. I detect a bit of competition and rivalry with a small dose of sexual tension.

[RuralProblems]

The one thing that is pervasive througout all of this ordeal is the underlying sensation that I gathered from reading your posts that you would do anything to make it not so, to make things different.

Well, you're right, but for the wrong reason. I hate confrontations, and hate making anybody feel bad. The only major confrontation I've ever even had in public in the last 20 years was a shouting match with a car salesman who pushed me too far (and feeding me a line of B.S.).

 

Being the only people here who need protecting are the kids, and she isn't physically abusive, I figured I could keep the kids on track mentally by giving them kudos a little more often, and by keeping them separated at critical times. The older one (10 years going on 16) can sense her hysterics coming on even sooner than I can, and says "Whatever" and tunes her out (even when the one who is about to "get it" from her is me).

[typical]

I hate confrontations, and hate making anybody feel bad.

 

And I bet she sensed that in you right away and moved in for the kill.

 

Now is the time that you lay down the law with her. Trust me, she has a sick mean streak in her, and wont hold it against you. Be firm and sharp with her, dangerous if you must. She will get a thrill out of it. I do not think her affair(s)? are because she is lacking anything.....anything except the strong upperhand that you let her get away with. She knows it, and pushes you, goads you, I think its more about her playing with fire, seeing how close she can get to pushing you before you snap. So snap. (In a healthy way of course)....

 

What would she do if you were to back her into a corner and have a dangerous talk with her? I dont mean harmfully threatening...but just enough to let her know that you, as a man will always have the upper hand....

[Sup]

No, I hadn't called them other than to ask questions.

 

 

Yes, I think it was part that, and part me wondering if the test didn't work properly on panty liners. She started wearing these liners when she went out for her encounters to keep the stuff off of her underwear, I suspect.

 

No, there's actually a bit of psychology involved here. She is the type that would just go wild when confronted with this, and would probably leave (at least until her head cleared), giving me an advantage saying "she left me". Also - her Mom would go positively ballistic with her when this came out, and she might actually be on MY side (the wife says she likes me better than her quite often).

 

That being said, there was a time when I thought it did matter. Until the time that I started dropping it (several months ago), I thought it would work in my favor. So I refocused on documenting the kids behavior and talking to lawyers, psychiatrists, etc. Basically, the only reason I picked up on this trail again is that I knew it would give me psychological leverage, even though it means nothing legally.

 

 

Have you talked to your lawyer about having a mental doctor evaluate the verbal abuse, which may also be deemed as emotion and mental abuse as well. Could the mental doctor testify on your behalf? I really hate these screwed up laws against men in general. By the way, have you talked to your lawyer about if your wife gets pregnant by OM? Is there a way to protect YOURSELF NOW knowing this is going on that you wouldn't be stuck with OM's baby responsibilities? Have you DNA tested your children to make sure they're yours? I can't remember if I already asked that or not. You may want to have your computer lock up after only 1 minute, to make sure that she doesn't try something sneeky to get a look at your computer. Do you have the documentation backed up and VERY well hidden? Could you encript the info (If you have it on your computer)? Are you able to directly send any new information to your lawyer? And lastly, it's good that you work at home, as that may help you.

[RuralProblems]

And I bet she sensed that in you right away and moved in for the kill.

Yup - I think you're right.

 

Now is the time that you lay down the law with her. Trust me, she has a sick mean streak in her, and wont hold it against you. Be firm and sharp with her, dangerous if you must. She will get a thrill out of it. I do not think her affair(s)? are because she is lacking anything.....anything except the strong upperhand that you let her get away with. She knows it, and pushes you, goads you, I think its more about her playing with fire, seeing how close she can get to pushing you before you snap. So snap. (In a healthy way of course)....

Again, probably right. She'd get over it. FWIW - I saw a psychiatrist about this a while back, and he suggested the same thing (sort of).

 

What would she do if you were to back her into a corner and have a dangerous talk with her? I dont mean harmfully threatening...but just enough to let her know that you, as a man will always have the upper hand....

That might be getting too close. I think that mean streak is there, in a bad way... Hate to have my throat slit in the middle of the night. That'd ruin my whole day.

[Sup]

Seeing as she makes statements about being trapped, why not encourage her to take the chance of moving to the big city etc. to act like she's single. If you do it as a friendly, helpful gesture, you could have her out, with no way to get back in, ammo to keep the kids and the house. With any luck, she may not come back at all.

 

That could be used as FRAUD against him, as he would've ploted that out. NOT GOOD!

[Sup]

 

The other thing to do would be to collect affidavits from friends etc. who have heard her say things that will work in your favour.

 

 

But, you might be able to do that, again check with your lawyer.

[RuralProblems]

Have you talked to your lawyer about having a mental doctor evaluate the verbal abuse, which may also be deemed as emotion and mental abuse as well. Could the mental doctor testify on your behalf? I really hate these screwed up laws against men in general. By the way, have you talked to your lawyer about if your wife gets pregnant by OM? Is there a way to protect YOURSELF NOW knowing this is going on that you wouldn't be stuck with OM's baby responsibilities? Have you DNA tested your children to make sure they're yours? I can't remember if I already asked that or not. You may want to have your computer lock up after only 1 minute, to make sure that she doesn't try something sneeky to get a look at your computer. Do you have the documentation backed up and VERY well hidden? Could you encript the info (If you have it on your computer)? Are you able to directly send any new information to your lawyer? And lastly, it's good that you work at home, as that may help you.

I might be able to get a doctor to say that already (along with help from those in the community). I think I'm screwed (so to speak) as far as getting custody, I've about given up on that. DNA - yeah - there was sperm (no DNA testing done, but it could be done). Are the kids mine? Yup - I have a couple of small but dominant genetic quirks that they have (such as a thumb that bends back 90 degrees and ADD which is also genetic). She's pretty much helpless so far as the computer goes, and, you know what? At this point, I couldn't care less if she finds me out. I did encrypt and hide my electronic data. This site is available, but she won't see my nic unless she arrives unexpectedly. I don't have it "remember me", and I close out the browser when I leave. The lawyer said that the infidelity is pretty much meaningless, but I know that by being able to prove it, I have leverage with her and her family. Thanks!

[RuralProblems]

Seeing as she makes statements about being trapped, why not encourage her to take the chance of moving to the big city etc. to act like she's single. If you do it as a friendly, helpful gesture, you could have her out, with no way to get back in, ammo to keep the kids and the house. With any luck, she may not come back at all.

 

The other thing to do would be to collect affidavits from friends etc. who have heard her say things that will work in your favour.

I just realized that I never replied. You're absolutely right, and it's my only way out of this thing that would work well. Next time she even HINTS at that, that's when the confrontation happens, I think. Heck, if it's soon enough, I may not even tell her what I know. She says this kind of thing often enough that I shouldn't have to wait long. In fact, I'll wait until she's good and drunk (which happens at least weekly), and I'll ask that. Thanks!

 

thinking... She'll be drunk this Friday night. I'll just bring it up in casual conversation - we bowl on Friday nights, and she always gets lit, and I can even bring up the question as a group question at the bar with her friends after bowling. Hmmm...

[RuralProblems]

Sup - what do you mean that could be used against me? Sure, I could plot it out, but I think it's what she really (deep in her heart) wants.

[Sup]

Possibly!!!

[climbergirl]

Have you DNA tested your children to make sure they're yours?

 

 

That's some sick, twisted paranoia you're throwing at this guy. Do you even have kids? By my recollection, it hasn't even been proven that she has cheated.

 

Besides, RP seems to love his kids..........doesn't seem he'd put himself or his kids through DNA testing on (what I have read) flimsy evidence-especially if he didn't suspect any cheating 8 to 10 years ago.

 

But, by all means........throw the kids into the fire.

 

And here I thought that our job as parents was to protect them from pain as much as possible.

 

I guess that only applies to some of us.

[Sup]

The "Blow ups" that she has, have you documented those too, and what your sons asked, and told you? To me, I think you have a VERY good chance of getting full custody. If I were you, I probably would go for broke, and go for sole custody, because from what you have said, she can't wait to get away from the kids, to paraphrase. So, why not take her up on the offer? You may regret not doing it now, later on when your sons are being mentally abused, and it gets worse as time goes on, and they get older. TRUST ME WHEN I SAY THAT, I KNOW!

[Sup]

 

 

That's some sick, twisted paranoia you're throwing at this guy. Do you even have kids? By my recollection, it hasn't even been proven that she has cheated.

 

Besides, RP seems to love his kids..........doesn't seem he'd put himself or his kids through DNA testing on (what I have read) flimsy evidence-especially if he didn't suspect any cheating 8 to 10 years ago.

 

But, by all means........throw the kids into the fire.

 

And here I thought that our job as parents was to protect them from pain as much as possible.

 

I guess that only applies to some of us.

 

PLEASE lady! He's already stated that he HAS the proof that he need/wants.