RuralProblems Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 I used every method of surveillance imaginable, and couldn't catch her. But after she took a trip to the Twin Cities (I'm in a rural Minnesota town over a 100 miles from there) for a "meeting", I grabbed her feminine pad that she wore there and set it in to a lab for testing, and it tested positive for sperm. It couldn't have been me - we hadn't "done it" for almost a month prior to that. So. I live in a no-fault divorce state, so I have no divorce leverage. I have two boys, 10 and 8. We have about 200k in net worth, with a hefty mortgage on the house. She's terrible with the kids, and often says she loves them but equally often says she wishes she didn't have them. I don't want her to have them. I am done with her. I can see "staying together for the kids". How often does that work? I haven't even confronted her yet. I just got the test results moments ago. I will have to wait to confront her about this until the kids are gone to school, which leaves today out. Suggestions? Should I confront her at home, or go somewhere "safe", and where would that be? I'll damned sure be recording that conversation on my handy-dandy digital recorder, that's for sure. Thanks in advance for any help. I'm sure not thinking clearly right now.
typical Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 Despite all of this, do you love her? Ideally, what do you want to really happen? So. I live in a no-fault divorce state, so I have no divorce leverage Essentially, what you are trying to say is that you wouldnt be granted a divorce for this? Or that you wouldnt be granted a divorce, period? I thought all states were a no-fault divorce state? You might say that I am intrigued by your story.
calalily Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 No fault divorce means that you don't have to find reasons as to why you are petitioning divorce - you just apply, and they grant it - very straight forward. Fault divorce refers to saying something like "she cheated, therefore I want a divorce". My advice is to not confront her until you have a plan formulated - leave, stay together, you keep the kids etc. Probably better to wait until you've cooled off as well. 1
Author RuralProblems Posted September 26, 2006 Author Posted September 26, 2006 Basically, no - I no longer love her. She's the bitch from hell. She derides and swears at the boys, and me as well. She's unappreciative of what she has (we're not poor, at all). She doesn't have to have a job other than keeping the house, and she doesn't even do that. She blames me and the boys for everything that goes wrong in her life (from dropping dishes when nobody is around, to complaining that our older but nice car has some quirks).. OK - yeah - I know that no-fault divorce means divorce is easy. The problem is that it also means that the affair would have no bearing whatsoever on the settlment - I don't care about posessions or money, but I want to protect the boys from her. I quite honestly have no leverage there. The lawyer said that being she's a stay-at-home-mom means that it'd be damned near impossible for me to remove the kids from her unless I can prove she's the Devil incarnate (which I could maybe do if I have the patience to document it). BTW - when I married her, she was independent, thoughtful, etc. Having kids, even though she wanted them more than I at the time, has changed her into a miserable human being. She'd be better off without the kids, she's stated as much to her friend (I overheard it), but I think that the culture of Motherhood would make her fight tooth and nail for custody.
whichwayisup Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 Get out of the marriage, become friendly enough that you both can be a big part of your kids lives, but do NOT stay married for the sake of those kids! The way you feel about her, that energy WILL be felt by your kids. Trust me, they'll be listening and snooping because that's what kids do sometimes. Divorce and move on. But, don't screw her over, because if you do that, you're screwing your own kids. 1
Author RuralProblems Posted September 26, 2006 Author Posted September 26, 2006 Divorce and move on. But, don't screw her over, because if you do that, you're screwing your own kids. I definitely appreciate that sentiment. I feel too much like I owe her nothing, except for giving birth to the kids. But that is beside the point. If she got the kids, I'd make sure I stay involved and that they're well cared for. But damned sure neither one of us will be able to maintain our current lifestyle if she gets them. I fully suspect that you're right in that they would pick up on the negative vibes, if they haven't already. Just for the record - here was my idea of "staying together for the kids". Open marriage, in which I'd probably just go without a relationship until they move out. She can screw around as much as she wants to. This all sounds awful. Has anybody made this work? I know that I could, just for the kids. But I don't know about her. I don't want her going "Andrea Yates" on me (bet that b*tch never thought her name would be used as a verb before she drowned her kids in the tub).
whichwayisup Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 The thing is, what your kids 'see' and 'hear' at home, sticks later in life. It's really not OK to have an open marriage, and be in a marriage if both people practically HATE eachother. Your kids will see this and apply it in their life at some point. I doubt you nor your soon to be ex wants that for them. Maybe some couples therapy would help resolve the bitter issues and then you both can be the loving and kind parents you're meant to be.
Princess112 Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 I grabbed her feminine pad that she wore there and set it in to a lab for testing, and it tested positive for sperm. I have to admit, your method of confirming adultery is pretty.. crazy o.o I never actually thought someone would go through all that. I mean, sure, maybe hire a private investigator that might do it all, but THAT.. wow. I guess I'm just surprised. By the way you talk about your wife, it's obvious you don't love her anymore. Pardon the question, but I'm curious.. what led you to believe she was cheating on you to begin with? It might not take that much to prove she's a lousy person, just one or two hidden cameras for a week should be enough, and maybe you can have that sperm tested for DNA and compared to yours.. as proof of adultery. Talk to her.. (and record if you wish) regarding adultery, but don't tell her HOW you found out.. maybe discuss the children during that recording, and see how hostile she might get. Don't be sarcastic, accussational or temperamental.. try to be as calm as possible. Actually, you can first approach her and tell her you overheard her say some things about the kids.
whichwayisup Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 Why does this story sound so familiar?? Someone else sent off DNA to the lab as well not too long ago.......
Island Girl Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 WOW. There is A LOT going on. I am having a hard time picking my jaw up off the floor since I read "I just got the results moments ago...". Have you told the lawyer about the statements she makes regarding not having the kids and not wanting them? Maybe THAT would sway a judges opinion or record her when she is around them to show how they are treated. I am so sorry about all of this! I wonder if you can stay calm and keep it together in order to start gathering info to use against her to get the kids. - ? Are you feeling ANY jealousy or rage? Because if you are - even somewhere in the tiniest recesses of your mind it could come out unexpectedly and possibly she will make the first move. She sounds like she is doing enough behind your back that she is thinking a lot more sneaky than you. And you don't want her trying to gather ammo to make YOU the bad guy.
Author RuralProblems Posted September 26, 2006 Author Posted September 26, 2006 Pardon the question, but I'm curious.. what led you to believe she was cheating on you to begin with?I suspect it was a different lover, but on Sept 23rd of LAST year she came home after a visit to a local community some 30 miles from here, 4 hours later than she said she'd be home, and never said anything about going to this other city. Supposedly just a shopping trip in town (10 miles away). The wedding ring was gone, her makeup was gone (she was in "full dress" upon leaving). Her pants reeked of sex (if you know the scent of pre-colital fluids that have been sitting on clothes for a while, you'd know what I mean). I noticed THAT while following her up the steps from the basement. Her excuse was flimsy, and she emphasized "she" when she explained who she went to see there. Lots of red flags there. I had used CheckMate (with very frequent positive results), but hadn't sent anything to a lab to this point. I was beginning to question the validity of the CheckMate test because I couldn't catch any specific behavior indicative of an affair (cell phone records, computer activity, etc). I was about to let this whole thing go in order to figure out a way to get the kids away from this situation, but she slipped and said "we" when referring to a trouble she was having with the TV in her hotel room. Search on my nic, you'll see my other posts. I was hammered down the last time I posted here - I was told that I needed to get a life and get my kids out of here. They were right, and I'm documenting her treatment of the kids. Video cameras don't do it, because she doesn't physically abuse them - all of the abuse has been verbal.
Author RuralProblems Posted September 26, 2006 Author Posted September 26, 2006 By the way... She did a very admirable job to keep from being detected. That's the intelligence that was part of my initial attraction to her
Sup Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 By the way... She did a very admirable job to keep from being detected. That's the intelligence that was part of my initial attraction to her I would Document all the times, dates, what was said to the children, etc. Ask your lawyer about going for SOLE custody on grounds of verbal abuse, I know will be hard to prove, but for them it's worth it, you DO need to get those children away from her, yes she WILL fight no doubt, like a dog, (no pun intended). I would NOT confront her just now, DON'T sleep with her, and get checked for STDs. Why do I say don't confront her just now? Well, you don't want to alert her to ANYTHING, so, just remain calm, start documenting the things going on, gather your evidence, make sure that you have NO trace of this site on your computer, NO favorites, NO cookies, NO history, NO pretypes, NO save this web site, etc. I think I remember you, but I didn't bash you. Also, I would go for the house, if you can. Does anyone have anything else to add? Hang in there MAN, :cool: Just remember, DON'T confront her yet without all your ducks in a row with your lawyer.
Sup Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 You also need to document when she says, that she wishes she didn't have the children.
Author RuralProblems Posted September 26, 2006 Author Posted September 26, 2006 You also need to document when she says, that she wishes she didn't have the children. Thanks, Sup. Yeah, I think I remember your nic from my previous posts. I am a computer guy, she's definitely not. I have my computer lock itself after 5 minutes of inactivity, she won't get in here Good idea to recommend it, though. I have the conversation mentioned in your quote above recorded, so that may work in my favor ('nuff said about that). Patience is still called for (though I was ready for a confrontation earlier today). Thanks again!
Author RuralProblems Posted September 26, 2006 Author Posted September 26, 2006 Oh, and I meant to mention, yes - I've already called to set up an AIDS test along with the other STD tests.
Sup Posted September 26, 2006 Posted September 26, 2006 No prob, MAN! Like I said just lay low, you DON't know a thing, HA! Everythings Hunky Dory, or something. Please keep us posted.
Author RuralProblems Posted September 27, 2006 Author Posted September 27, 2006 I've been laying low trying to figure out what's going on for over a year, I can handle a few more weeks One interesting piece of advice that I've received is to have D papers drawn up with me having primary custody and her getting a reasonable settlement, hoping that in the heat of the moment she'd sign it. I think there's a 70% or better chance of that happening. One intersting comment that I remember is her saying that being alone on a trip to Washington was "like being single again" (another overheard conversation). Why the choice of the word "single". That statement gained significance knowing now what I know. I thought she just meant that she wasn't tied down to a schedule or somthing - maybe it was a little "free-er" than I originally thought at the time.
Sup Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 I just thought, well, when you do finally tell her what you know about her affair, wanting divorce, and all, she's probably gonna try to make you look or feel stupid, crazy, or that it's your fault she sleeping around on ya,(RRRRIIIIGGGHHHTT!) Be prepared that SHE may try to make you out as the bad guy, so to speak. Have you talked to your side of the family? You may want to try to protect your assets while you're at it, perhaps even excluding her from any Will/s, I dunno about investment plans (401K), or property, ask your lawyer about that, I'm sure that you can cancel any credit cards you feel you may need to. So when she finds out there will be less of a chance she'll go on a shopping spree. Just want you to cover all your bases, before the BOMB drops, so to speak. And, just think, It'll be one way to keep your mind preoccupied in the mean time while the time ticks away silently for her, Do take care, we're here for ya.
luvstarved Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 I agree totally with Sup - have as much of the practical stuff in order as you can - and definitely give some thought to how to prepare yourself for a "counterattack" - any crazy things she might try to say or do to make you the one at fault. If she were to sign papers in the heat of the moment giving up custody, it would make her position tough but I don't think it would preclude her from being able to fight to get them back... This may not apply to you but when I divorced from first H it was from a non US citizen and I was advised to get passports for my kids so that he wouldn't be able to - to prevent him from being able to leave the country with them. This might not be relevant to you, but definitely consider as many angles as you can think of. Sorry you are going through all of this but glad that you are being smart about it and trying to protect your kids' interests. Keep us posted.
Raylene Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 IMHO the kids are gonna be adversely affected whether you stay or whether you divorce, especially since their will be tons of negativity and bitterness between the two of you if you do "battle" over custody of the kids and house etc. If you ever watch shows such as the Nanny etc. you will see Moms freaking and saying outrageous things to their kids alot. My point being, I agree with your Attorney, it would take alot, realistically speaking, to take the kids away from her. Probably outcome of divorce, seeing as how she doesn't work: she gets custody of the kids, she gets the house, she gets child support AND alimony. You get a visitation schedule with the kids and since you pissed her off trying to get custody and she wants to get even, forget any extra time with the kids (even if she has to hire a sitter to go out), and oh yeah, you get to spend loads of time writing all those checks for the mortgage, alimony etc. I, personally, couldn't stay with her, but since you do consider it an option (and you are the one with the most to lose, not her), IF you do stay, why even bother mentioning the adultery OR open marriage. If you stay, IMHO, you should consider just saying things seem out of whack with the two of you and you see she is stressed and suggest family counseling for dealing with issues regarding the kids and coping etc. Then I would suggest she need time out of the home as she may feel her life is dull now and the boys are older and in school, so she should get a job. Just getting a job and socializing with other people everyday through work could do alot to uplift her personality and she may turn back into that person you used to know. Believe me, staying at home and feeling like you are nothing but the maid does tend to affect you negatively afterawhile. Who knows, maybe the two of you could actually fall back in love after awhile! If not, if you do finally divorce, she will now have an income so no alimony is likely, and you may be able to reach agreement where she stays in the house until the boys are of age, then the house sold and the proceeds slpit between the two of you. (earlier I meant to say she may be having affairs because she is bored and may feel like you see her now as uninteresting little house bitch--sorry, but I do know alot of women who feel that way. Not that an affair is an excuse or remedy for that, but I do think it makes one more vulnerable to male attention just to validate ones worth, if that makes sense). Good luck. Heck, I really don't know what I would do if I were you.
Guest Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 I had to comment on this. If you are both staying in the same town, ask for you lawer to put the right of first refusal into your visitation agreement. It means (basically) that if she is leaving them for a set period of time, that she HAS to call you to ask you if you would like to have parenting time with them before she calls anyone else. Of course she can just ignore it even if it is in the court order, but, you can file a contempt charge every time she violates it. The judges of today are getting sick and tired of the custodial parent jacking the non-custodial parent and are punishing the Cp's when they come across the docket too many times. Good Luck!
typical Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 I had used CheckMate (with very frequent positive results), but hadn't sent anything to a lab to this point. I was beginning to question the validity of the CheckMate test because I couldn't catch any specific behavior indicative of an affair (cell phone records, computer activity, etc). I was about to let this whole thing go Interesting indeed.... Above, i have bolded and underlined a statement in which I need an answer to have my curiosity assuaged...Did checkmate know that you were beginning to question their validity? also, you stated this: I had used CheckMate (with very frequent positive results), I am confused as to why when you recieved very frequent positive results, that was not enough, you actually needed to check for presence of sperm. Also, if you were recieving very frequent positive results, why then were you questioning their validity? Was it denial on your behalf? Lastly, I am wondering something. If you already knew that having rock solid evidence of her amoral behaviour wouldnt yeild you any results as far as the courts were concerned, why did you go to such extremes? Was it to appease your mind? I am the curious sort.
Craig Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 What ever you do don't move out of your house. If anyone moves it's going to be her without the kids. After all she's the one that apparently found such delight in feeling 'single' again.
climbergirl Posted September 27, 2006 Posted September 27, 2006 Why the need to 'catch' her? If you want a divorce....then get one. FYI-as far as the financial aspect-the courts won't give a rats a$$ if she's had an affair. custody-again, courts won't care unless she's having sex in front of the kids. Just get a divorce and move on.
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