Contract or Covenant?

[reneet]

Contract. Contract. Contract.

[Touche]

This:

 

I want to keep my personal views out of this one. It's obvious that people think I'm trying to set them up, or that I'm judging them, when all I wanted to know is what the concensus on this forum was.

 

and this don't jibe:

 

It's clear I'm getting the typical societal response, and that's more of what I was looking for anyway.

 

It supports my theory that everyone is walking away from the traditional values of Marriage..

[Moose]

This:

 

 

 

and this don't jibe:

I don't understand what you mean. Sure it does, if I had told you my personal take, THEN it wouldn't jibe.....but I haven't.

 

All that my comment indicates is that noone can decipher the differences between the two, however, it's NOT pointing towards the traditional values of Marriage....

[Touche]

I don't understand what you mean. Sure it does, if I had told you my personal take, THEN it wouldn't jibe.....but I haven't.

 

All that my comment indicates is that noone can decipher the differences between the two, however, it's NOT pointing towards the traditional values of Marriage....

 

No, you've already told us your personal take.

 

And perhaps no one can decipher the differences between the two because there are no REAL differences between the two. They overlap.

 

I will agree with you though that the traditional values of marriage HAVE fallen by the wayside. No argument there. We've seen it time and time again on LS for example.

 

With that said, I don't happen to agree that ALL the traditional values were good ones...most yes. But not all.

 

Each couple has to define what their marriage is in order for it to work for THEM. I don't care what another couple does to make it work..just so long as they make it WORK.

[Island Girl]

My marraige is both. Elements of expectations are more contractual with the understanding that -- providing the contractual obligations are met, i.e. no cheating, etc., the other person gets unconditional love, etc.

 

It is ridiculous to say a covenant is exclusional of contractual concepts. And relationships ALWAYS have elements of both of what you listed.

[CrushedOrgans]

if it's not one or both, then it's neither.

 

so any way you slice it, you can't make people pick one if they disagree with both.

 

why do you become so very angered by this?

[tanbark813]

Contract, definitely. My love and commitment would be conditional upon her sticking to the marriage vows.

[Moose]

if it's not one or both, then it's neither.

 

so any way you slice it, you can't make people pick one if they disagree with both.

 

why do you become so very angered by this?

I'm not angered about it at all.

 

I just don't see what's so hard about honestly admitting if you view marriage as a contract with stipulations, (particularly a way out), or a covenant where everything is unconditional, that you are bound to your partner for life.

 

If you say both, it's neither....

[CrushedOrgans]

I'm not angered about it at all.

 

I just don't see what's so hard about honestly admitting if you view marriage as a contract with stipulations, (particularly a way out), or a covenant where everything is unconditional, that you are bound to your partner for life.

 

If you say both, it's neither....

 

i agree. my point is that you can choose neither or both or whatever, but it still isn't choosing one.

 

why do you assume that no one is being honest about their answers just because they pick both...or neither?

[superconductor]

I'm not angered about it at all.

 

I just don't see what's so hard about honestly admitting if you view marriage as a contract with stipulations, (particularly a way out), or a covenant where everything is unconditional, that you are bound to your partner for life.

 

If you say both, it's neither....

I think what's happening here is the definitions of marriage are being confused.

 

Marriage, in the eyes of the state, is a contract, legally binding the two parties. And, like almost any other contract, it can be broken.

 

But marriage in the religious sense is something different, whereby it's supposed to be for life, sickness/health, etc. etc. Of course, few religious institutions follow that doctrine anymore because of re-interpretations of both religious teachings and social structures, just like there aren't many churches that still teach that it's OK to sell your daughters into slavery.

[Moose]

why do you assume that no one is being honest about their answers just because they pick both...or neither?

Actually, I suppose they're being honest with their answer, however, if one says covenant with a penality, or contractural covenant, that should mean, "contract", and therefore should be construed as, "contract", and not "covenant".

[Great Gazoo]

I think SC has a point. For me my marriage is both. Why? Because for the fact that I don't mix state and religion. As far as the state is concerned my marriage is a contract. On the other side of things in religion my marriage is a convenant. The difference to me is I can get out of the contract but I can't get out of the convenant.

[Mz. Pixie]

In my heart, a covenant.

 

But since I've already been divorced, in my head a contract and a covenant.

[reneet]

I'm divorced also. That's why I say Contract.

[Moose]

The difference to me is I can get out of the contract but I can't get out of the convenant.

So let me ask....when thing get tough in your marriage, do you look for your out, or do you keep the covenant mind set and stick it through, thick and thin?

 

When you're in a contract situation it's an, "if....then", mentality.....so, when your, "if's", aren't met from your partner, do you bail, or do you continue?

[reneet]

If I may butt in here. I bailed out of my marriage of 7 years because mc did not work & my children were seeing the arguments every day. I refused to put them thru any more of that. Do YOU think I should have stayed & tuffed it out? Covenant??

 

CONTRACT!!!

[Touche]

Here's the thing though about the contract part. Many of us can believe it's a contract and STILL hold traditional values.

 

The "if...then" part becomes "If things become difficult, then I will try harder." "If things get tough then I will do anything and everything to stick by my spouse."

 

BUT...with that being said, if my spouse ever gave himself to another, then I believe the contract/covenant might be broken. I'm not sure I would forgive that or not. I might make peace with it for the sake of our child though. I also VOWED that he would not grow up ever in a one-parent household.

 

So I don't know...would you say my marriage is a contract or a covenant in YOUR eyes?

[Moose]

reneet, I already have your response. One that I can actually count too! Thanks!

 

Thanks Tanbark for another one I can count.

 

Buttafly, and Mz. Pixie too....

[alphamale]

How many here believe that Marriage should be based on a Contract, or a Convenant?

Legally its a contract and socially its covenant. So its both. You cannot seperate the two.

[Moose]

Here's the thing though about the contract part. Many of us can believe it's a contract and STILL hold traditional values.

 

The "if...then" part becomes "If things become difficult, then I will try harder." "If things get tough then I will do anything and everything to stick by my spouse."

 

BUT...with that being said, if my spouse ever gave himself to another, then I believe the contract/covenant might be broken. I'm not sure I would forgive that or not. I might make peace with it for the sake of our child though. I also VOWED that he would not grow up ever in a one-parent household.

 

So I don't know...would you say my marriage is a contract or a covenant in YOUR eyes?

I would say covenant. Because your motivation is geared to benefit others and not just yourself.

 

You're not using infidelity as an out. Even though this is clearly a covenant breaker, and you wouldn't be held accountable for leaving.

[Touche]

I would say covenant. Because your motivation is geared to benefit others and not just yourself.

 

You're not using infidelity as an out. Even though this is clearly a covenant breaker, and you wouldn't be held accountable for leaving.

 

Ok, I see what you're saying and I HAVE leaned towards thinking that our marriage is a covenant. But what do you mean about the part about not being held accountable for leaving? Under your definition of covenant, leaving is NOT an option, right?

[hotgurl]

I would say covenant. Because your motivation is geared to benefit others and not just yourself.

 

You're not using infidelity as an out. Even though this is clearly a covenant breaker, and you wouldn't be held accountable for leaving.

 

but wouldn't that make it a contract. If infidelity is a dealbreaker than it's a contract not a convenant or am I missing something?

[Moose]

Ok, I see what you're saying and I HAVE leaned towards thinking that our marriage is a covenant. But what do you mean about the part about not being held accountable for leaving? Under your definition of covenant, leaving is NOT an option, right?

Infidelity is the only offense that Christ allows us to dissolve a marriage covenant.

 

The offender, of course, would be held accountable, but not the innocent party.

 

In my mind, infidelity isn't necessarily a deal breaker either. If Mrs. Moose ever did cheat, that would force me to look more into where I have went wrong, and not her.....

[alphamale]

Infidelity is the only offense that Christ allows us to dissolve a marriage covenant....

um no....severe mental illness is also covered.

[Moose]

um no....severe mental illness is also covered.

Explain please?