Author luvtoto Posted September 18, 2006 Author Posted September 18, 2006 Exactly. Have you ever been taught any skill by a total hardass? I think I being taught one right now. Tone it down a knotch, please.
mental_traveller Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 yes. please, guys. i'm not asking to be snarky, but i suspect that for all the wailing about how women don't know what they want, men would feel the exact same way on this issue. i understand that it's frustrating to try to predict how to make a woman happy - because it's equally frustrating to try to predict how to make a man happy. so tell me. have none of the men here actually felt this way about his SO? No. I prefer a woman who is predictably sexy, smart, well-turned out, focused on pleasing me & making me happy. The last thing I'd want is a woman who half the time I wouldn't know what the hell she is doing. If I want drama and unpredictability in my life, I would seek it out in work, adventure sports, martial arts/boxing etc, not in a life partner. Really I think the only sort of person who seeks unpredictability in a partner is someone whose life is so goddam boring that *anything* out of the ordinary is better than the routine snore-fest to which they have become accustomed. But most men have enough initiative to *change* their lives into something more exciting if this ever happens - they do it themselves rather than fishing around for a woman to provide it for them. Of course those passive, spinless, characterless men that hang on the beck and call of "unpredictable" high-maintenance drama queens doubtless disagree. But that's why they are objects of derision amongst their male friends, men to be pitied rather than held up as examplars of the ideal love relationship. They are the guys that come and post threads on loveshack like "Why is my girlfriend cheating on me, I treat her like a queen and she treats me like dirt?".
mental_traveller Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 I think I being taught one right now. Tone it down a knotch, please. Lol ok, fair call Seriously though, can't you just subtly guide him in the right direction with your womanly skills, rather than fret about the whole relationship? Tease the guy a bit about being too much of a puppy-dog, encourage him to act a bit more macho, surely that's better than hoping Clark Gable will burst through the door and ravish you on the spot? (Ok maybe not, but it's a damn sight more realistic!)
Author luvtoto Posted September 18, 2006 Author Posted September 18, 2006 Lol ok, fair call Seriously though, can't you just subtly guide him in the right direction with your womanly skills, rather than fret about the whole relationship? Tease the guy a bit about being too much of a puppy-dog, encourage him to act a bit more macho, surely that's better than hoping Clark Gable will burst through the door and ravish you on the spot? (Ok maybe not, but it's a damn sight more realistic!) Some more good advice. Thanks MT! I gotta go to the thing at the thing...so, I will comment later on your posts. By the way, lab rat, huh? :laugh:
serial muse Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 No. I prefer a woman who is predictably sexy, smart, well-turned out, focused on pleasing me & making me happy. The last thing I'd want is a woman who half the time I wouldn't know what the hell she is doing. If I want drama and unpredictability in my life, I would seek it out in work, adventure sports, martial arts/boxing etc, not in a life partner. Really I think the only sort of person who seeks unpredictability in a partner is someone whose life is so goddam boring that *anything* out of the ordinary is better than the routine snore-fest to which they have become accustomed. But most men have enough initiative to *change* their lives into something more exciting if this ever happens - they do it themselves rather than fishing around for a woman to provide it for them. Of course those passive, spinless, characterless men that hang on the beck and call of "unpredictable" high-maintenance drama queens doubtless disagree. But that's why they are objects of derision amongst their male friends, men to be pitied rather than held up as examplars of the ideal love relationship. They are the guys that come and post threads on loveshack like "Why is my girlfriend cheating on me, I treat her like a queen and she treats me like dirt?". well hm... one way to instigate drama is to wilfully misinterpret what the other person is saying, so that one can set up a sort of straw man and knock it down, thereby "winning" your point. that's an excellent way to cause unnecessary misunderstanding and bad feeling, rather than trying to seek common ground or attempting to understand and connect with the other person's point of view. so MT. had enough attention yet? talk about drama....oy.
Author luvtoto Posted September 19, 2006 Author Posted September 19, 2006 Seriously though, can't you just subtly guide him in the right direction with your womanly skills, rather than fret about the whole relationship? Your posts were very insightful, mental_traveller. I can respect most of what you were trying to say, but the kind of dedication it will take to make this work with him is too much for me to handle right now. I just got home from my counseling session. I started today. I am going to get to the bottom of this problem. No, MT, I do not think I am a whiney little girl. I think I am a woman trying to figure her life out. If that means talking till I'm blue in the face about my issues...(with appropriate people) then so be it. In my two hours counseling session, I was asked what a typical day/week is like for me. My counselor just looked at me in amazement. I never realized just how much I have on my shoulders. I have lots of responsibility in my life. My kids depend on me for everything. I am the only person in my two kid's lives that they can call family. I keep it together for them. I feel stretched to the limit often. Now, to my point... This new guy I met. Well, he lives with his mother. The only thing he owns in his life, at 38 yrs of age, is his car. He has to work two jobs just to survive, yet he lives with his mother. He's been divorced twice so far in his life. His family seems to coddle him (well, I know his mother does). Now, my problem might lie with the fact that I am already busy as hell being a single mother of two kids with no support or family. The idea of taking on this guy that needs so much *attention* might not be too appealing to me deep down. NO, I know it isn't appealing. When I meet Mr Right, I am hoping that he will ADD to my life and not TAKE from my life. I don't want to take the place of his mother. Anyways...I feel good now. I really feel like I worked through this. Sorry for whining so much. I am going to continue weekly counseling sessions for my fear of intimacy issues.
magichands Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 This new guy I met. Well, he lives with his mother. The only thing he owns in his life, at 38 yrs of age, is his car. He has to work two jobs just to survive, yet he lives with his mother. Give the guy a break! I mean, I'm still paying off my Ferrari - and even though I'm f*cking sick of baked beans (and the car seriously needs airing), getting all those envious looks (not me, the car) makes it all worthwhile. When I meet Mr Right, I am hoping that he will ADD to my life and not TAKE from my life. I don't want to take the place of his mother. Self, self, self! Bet you his mother would appreciate the break (and you know she will take him back if it doesn't work out - her love is unconditional). I get the feeling that it's much more than an "issue" of trusting his love (word used loosely in this context). Like you said, you want some tangible benefit for the extra weight - you want a bloke, not a cloak. Anyway, it sounds like you are doing okay. Yeabut?
Guest Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 I am not trying to get at LuvToto but one thing is crystal clear from this thread, atleast to me. Women are willing to put up with jerk behavior but just cannot stand a man that is way too nice. Even in relationships the woman that is abused by the man still takes it and wants to be with him but the same woman cannot stand a guy that is too sweet and will not hesitate to dump him. By saying the above I am not implying that women want to be treated badly or women love men that are rude to them. It's just my understanding that given the two evils of bad behavior and 'too nice' behavior a woman would choose the former! I feel that 'too sweet' is more bad than bad itself!! I bet that if this poor guy had ignored LT on couple of occassions, not being available every once in a while, been a tad jerky she would have fallen head over heels. Again this is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree -- noclobber
serial muse Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 hi again noclobber. welcome back. everyone - there is a website out there (i guess i can't post the link?) that is dedicated to trying to explain why women are not attracted to self-professed "nice guys" who are really nothing of the kind. true, these men are not straight-up as$holes or dominant jerks - but also true that they can be equally controlling and demanding, only in a passive-aggressive, more subtle and ultimately rather creepy way. so yes, noclobber - i suppose there are going to be people out there who would prefer to date someone who is taking the direct approach to being an a$$ over the indirect approach. because i guess at least you can see it coming. but best of all would be neither. it's not an either-or thing, guys. it's just not. it's entirely possible to be confident without being an as$hole. which is far more attractive than blatant insecurity, whether it's expressed by being a dick or by being a doormat.
magichands Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 but best of all would be neither. it's not an either-or thing, guys. it's just not. it's entirely possible to be confident without being an as$hole. which is far more attractive than blatant insecurity, whether it's expressed by being a dick or by being a doormat. So...you're saying it's not about a game, but about an approach? (An approach to life, even?) I like it how that sentence says nothing, but everything. Maybe that's just me, though.
serial muse Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 So...you're saying it's not about a game, but about an approach? (An approach to life, even?) I like it how that sentence says nothing, but everything. Maybe that's just me, though. i'm saying it's about not trying to manipulate another person, whether by playing the as$ or the doormat. i'm saying exactly what a number of the guys who've posted here have sort of said - but they refuse to recognize that perhaps luvtoto's guy was not adhering to what they're advocating. they just give her down the country because she's complaining at all, and it's fun to pile on somebody in the gender wars, no matter how much you might agree with their position on any other terms. they're playing partisan politics, all they see is a woman complaining about her guy without actually listening to what she's saying, and considering whether she could get the benefit of the doubt were she a man frustrated by a clingy woman, and i want them to stop it and just freaking listen without the gender filter. is what i'm saying. and i don't think my post says nothing. i think it restates what i said much earlier in the thread. which was plenty.
Author luvtoto Posted September 19, 2006 Author Posted September 19, 2006 I think everybody's situation is unique. Generalizing to figure out the problem between men & women won't help anyone. Nor will anything get solved. What will hopefully help my situation is counseling. Figuring out the specific issues. I have not been able to be with someone that is so open to loving me. Maybe someday I will. Not just being able to be loved by a man, but, (dare I say) in general. If I was in a different state of mind or had better self-esteem about my worthiness to be loved, I wouldn't have been so turned off by him so much. I refuse to just accept the blanket statements about how, well, this is typical of women. Yes, I come across as a *typical* woman that stomps on the nice guys. But, I feel the way I have been behaving lately is not acceptable. I am not proud of my actions...and don't want to be grouped in a specific *womanly* category, to justify myself.
burning 4 revenge Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 I think a big part of the problem in the gender wars is people are afraid to be honest about how they really feel and so there is some deceit with the best intentions, but with worse results in reality. If more women would tell the guy what they are thinking then there would be less confusion and less resentment and insecurity. I wonder if the woman really knows what she's thinking though. I mean so much of the time. It's what BO refers to as the random insanity of women.
blind_otter Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 If more women would tell the guy what they are thinking then there would be less confusion and less resentment and insecurity. I wonder if the woman really knows what she's thinking though. I mean so much of the time. It's what BO refers to as the random insanity of women. well I don't know what I'm thinking really. but I'm crazy. and I don't even have 6 demons possessing me (at this time).
Author luvtoto Posted September 19, 2006 Author Posted September 19, 2006 If more women would tell the guy what they are thinking then there would be less confusion and less resentment and insecurity. Uh, I don't think he wants to know what I was thinking about him. I saw him as someone who would need too much attention from me. How would telling him how I felt help him?
burning 4 revenge Posted September 19, 2006 Posted September 19, 2006 Uh, I don't think he wants to know what I was thinking about him. I saw him as someone who would need too much attention from me. How would telling him how I felt help him? It would help him assess the situation honestly instead of trying to feel things out and guess. I didn't read that you had broken up already. So it's a moot point anyway.
Author luvtoto Posted September 28, 2006 Author Posted September 28, 2006 Ugh. Just got a sugar-coated email from him today. First he apologizes for writing me. Then, he tells me that he still thinks of me. Then, he tells me how grateful he is for getting to meet me. He states that he's not bitter, and he told me to keep smiling, it makes me more beautiful than I already am. He writes that he wants to stay in contact with me. I am a terrible person. I feel like crap now.
magichands Posted September 28, 2006 Posted September 28, 2006 I am a terrible person. I feel like crap now. It's good that you didn't fall for his emotional blackmail.
Author luvtoto Posted September 28, 2006 Author Posted September 28, 2006 It's good that you didn't fall for his emotional blackmail. Part of me wants to write him back and tell him to go to hell. (shivers) Shaking off the GROSSNESS!!! I would never write a stupid letter like that to someone that just dumped me. Where is his pride for goodness sake??
magichands Posted September 28, 2006 Posted September 28, 2006 Where is his pride for goodness sake?? You stole it from him, you silly woman. But his balls will grow back.
Author luvtoto Posted September 28, 2006 Author Posted September 28, 2006 You stole it from him, you silly woman. But his balls will grow back. :lmao: :lmao:
arniebuteft Posted September 28, 2006 Posted September 28, 2006 You could always email him a link to this thread...
Guest Posted September 28, 2006 Posted September 28, 2006 Oh he looks like a real mess luvtoto! You are correct. Where is his pride? Anger is the normal reaction anybody would feel after being rejected or dumped. But this guy seems to be fine with it... huh... something does not add up. May be he thinks if you see how nice he is to you despite the fact you rejected him you will come around??
Author luvtoto Posted September 28, 2006 Author Posted September 28, 2006 You could always email him a link to this thread... I considered that. Haha!! This guy needs some assistance. I wish my sign on name wasn't so obvious. He'd know right away who I was.
Almost Posted September 29, 2006 Posted September 29, 2006 Hey luvtoto, I think we would make a great couple. My problem is the opposite of this wuss guy you were dating. All I ever do is send mixed messages! And no matter what the woman does or how nice she is, I interpret everything from her as a mixed message! So if we dated, it would be 100% mystery and neither of us would know where we stand! How exciting would that be? Sounds great, huh?
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