Author Lor Posted October 19, 2006 Author Posted October 19, 2006 ....does anyone have a frickin' rulebook on relationships!?!?! I don't know how to play the game... I thought if I was upfront and honest with him about emailing them, etc, that it was a good thing. But, as a friend pointed out to me this morning, men are quirky.....they say sure, no problem...until confronted with it. So I either A) quit talking to them completely or B) don't mention it. He's been messaging some of his female friends on myspace, and as long as it stays there I don't know if there's a lot of harm to it. But does that apply to his way of thinking towards me?? I don't want to have to get rid of my friends ~ that's not fair ~ but yet....... ******sigh****
Author Lor Posted October 19, 2006 Author Posted October 19, 2006 I personally wouldn't have personal issues with the particular instance cited ~ so much I would have problems with your being in contact with other men via any form. That is if we had a exclusive relationship, and 1-1/2 seems a little short to being getting into an exclusive relationship, but even if it gave the apperance of drifting into the serious relam. The issue is you the issue is his un-resolved in-securities stemming from his prevouce un-faithful relationships which sent up red flags for him, and which should be sending up red flags for you. Not every X-________________means that all men or women are bad. Other people can bring out the worse in us, just as they have the potential to bring out the best in us. MzP is an example,. while her and her XH mixed like oil and water, with her current husband they not only are compatiable ~ but compliment each other like sugar and cream. I'd back off on the contact with the other men, cancel going to the show, and you and him need to have some serious talks about how to be pro-active in not allowing either of your demons from relationships past raising their foul, ugly faces in your current one. The current one is a good one ~ I mean you'd have to be one evil woman to blantanly cheat right in front of him, and flaunt it in his face. He needs to give up the security blanket and his blinke and grow the Hell up. Thanks Guns. It is exclusive ~ but I thought...oh, hell, I didn't think. I'm gonna back off the contact, couldn't go to the show anyway since we're leaving for NY tonight. To me its harmless, since I know in my heart who I am and what I want, but to give a little background on him: His first W cheated on him. His 2nd W left him for his brother. they've since split and she tried to contact my BF a few weeks ago; would love to get my hands on her email. So, I can't blame him for having trust issues. He's been hurt a hell of a lot worse than me, and I knew he's had trust issues from the start. But dummy me, I screw things up. We will talk about it again, I know, cuz he needs to realize that I am not his xW's ~ but twice burned....can't blame him. I'm trying to just let go of what happened. He's gonna, although he's gonna be cautious. I'm not gonna walk on eggshells but I'm really really really gonna look at it thru his eyes before I do anything else. Thanks for saying I'm a good one ~ so is he ~ and he's worth fighting for. He's got baggage, don't we all, and is trying to not let it rule his life ~ I promised him I would never intentionally hurt him. This is what I get for dying my hair blonde.....
Author Lor Posted October 19, 2006 Author Posted October 19, 2006 OH! HELL NO! HELL NO! Don't you dare fall back into that behavior pattern. You've been there, done that. Begging someone to be in and a part of your life is BS ~ either they do or they don't. Either their part of the soultion and not part of the problem, part of the answers and not part of the question ~ or they're not. If that's the case ~ then they shouldn't just be going ~ they should be gone. Nope, won't fall back into the behavior pattern of weak, spineless, whimpering nutbag. I don't ever want to have to beg a guy to be with me again, and didn't like the feeling it gave me. Yet, I couldn't just walk away without puting up a fight ~ too much to lose. I wasn't begging him to be a part of my life ~ I was asking for another chance at us, that the potential is there for a long-lasting relationship on both sides ~ to believe in what I was saying ~ and he's strong enough to have given it to me. He could have easily said hell no, get out. I want him in my life but for who I am, not what he or anyone wants me to be. And, trust me, if I'd walked out that door, I was not coming back ~ at least until he would have called me. I just didn't want to go. And if I'd left...? I would have survived just fine, albeit a little sore from the ride.
Gunny376 Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 ....does anyone have a frickin' rulebook on relationships!?!? There isn't one ~ not an absolute one, just general guidelines ~ other than that you've got to play it by ear, and fly by the seat of your pants. what applies to one, wouldn't apply to another, given the different varibales of time, and place I don't know how to play the game... I thought if I was upfront and honest with him about emailing them, etc, that it was a good thing. You can't go wrong with honesty, but there is such a thing as knowing when to just keep your mouth shut. Sometimes, you have to let them find things out on their own. I'm not advocating being dis-honest, but sometimes its just best to not say anything out of consideration for the others person's viewpoint and feelings. A very good example of this would be telling someone who was in a nursing home, that has Alzehimier (sic) over and over and over everyday that they're spouse had died. And, thus they're re-living the loss and grief daily. It would be far better to tell them once and then to act and pretend that they're spouse would be around later that day. To do otherwise would be cruel. But, as a friend pointed out to me this morning, men are quirky.... People, men and women are quirky! He's been messaging some of his female friends on myspace, and as long as it stays there I don't know if there's a lot of harm to it. But does that apply to his way of thinking towards me?? I don't want to have to get rid of my friends ~ that's not fair ~ but yet....... Tha't you call, but that door swings both ways. If it just e-mail buddies and its kept out in the open on both sides, and up-front, and its something that you share between the two of you ~ I don't see a problem with it.
Author Lor Posted October 19, 2006 Author Posted October 19, 2006 There isn't one ~ not an absolute one, just general guidelines ~ other than that you've got to play it by ear, and fly by the seat of your pants. what applies to one, wouldn't apply to another, given the different varibales of time, and place Well, that sucks. You can't go wrong with honesty, but there is such a thing as knowing when to just keep your mouth shut. Even my own mother told me not to talk him to death! Thanks, Mom! She said I have a tendency to talk too much.....and my bad, I've thought that if I was in the open on everything that it would be much better. Pick and choose, right? Tha't you call, but that door swings both ways. If it just e-mail buddies and its kept out in the open on both sides, and up-front, and its something that you share between the two of you ~ I don't see a problem with it. Neither did I but I guess email/myspace is one thing, phone conversations are another. My friend put it in perspective: the guy friend calls, saying he wants to meet me, come to the show...oh, and bring whats-his-name, too....my problem is that something I consider harmless isn't always and I don't know when it is and when it isn't. So I need to put his shoes on before I act. Guess I was taking it for granted that he knows who I am and can trust me. Have to remember that he doesn't and doesn't trust me completely yet.
dgiirl Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 Lor, dont you dare walk down that road. You did _nothing_ wrong. Not one single thing. You are allowed to have friends. You are allowed to go out. You did not hide things from your bf. You were totally upfront about everything. He eavesdropped on your conversation. He jumped to conclusions based on past experiences with OTHER people and put the blame onto you. And you took it! To me, this sounds like the beginnings of an abusive controlling relationship. I'm not saying he's inheritantly this type of person, but it does sound like this is the type of relationship you both are about to create. Because of his own insecurities and baggage, you are about to start walking on egg shells. You cant do that sweetie! You can not allow that to happen. Yes, you can show compassion and empathy to his fears when he voices his concerns, but you cant start second guessing your every move on how it may or may not affect him. You are going to exhaust yourself, you're going to start getting an anxiety complex worrying about every minute little thing, you're going to become depressed, and he's going to keep expecting you to change for every little problem that arises that gives him insecurity. BTDT, dont do it!
Gunny376 Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 Lor, dont you dare walk down that road. You did _nothing_ wrong. Not one single thing. You are allowed to have friends. You are allowed to go out. You did not hide things from your bf. You were totally upfront about everything. He eavesdropped on your conversation. He jumped to conclusions based on past experiences with OTHER people and put the blame onto you. And you took it! To me, this sounds like the beginnings of an abusive controlling relationship. I'm not saying he's inheritantly this type of person, but it does sound like this is the type of relationship you both are about to create. Because of his own insecurities and baggage, you are about to start walking on egg shells. You cant do that sweetie! You can not allow that to happen. Yes, you can show compassion and empathy to his fears when he voices his concerns, but you cant start second guessing your every move on how it may or may not affect him. You are going to exhaust yourself, you're going to start getting an anxiety complex worrying about every minute little thing, you're going to become depressed, and he's going to keep expecting you to change for every little problem that arises that gives him insecurity. BTDT, dont do it! What she said! I'm behind her! Yea! Yea! Hearye! Hearye!
Author Lor Posted October 24, 2006 Author Posted October 24, 2006 Thanks you guys! The air has been cleared and everything is fine. He got to see me in full blown take-charge, organized, get-r-done, take no prisoners mode this weekend helping his friends move from NY to OH...and he thought it was cute. OMG, cute? My X would have been stomping, cussing, yelling at me, telling me I was wrong constantly. Instead the BF was working right along side, neck in neck, with laughs, hugs, teasing... Plus I got to meet his Dad this weekend; he thinks I'm a sweetheart and asked me to call him Dad. He's a wonderful guy. I don't think its so much of him showing a potential for controlling. More just that he's so cautious of relationships, has been burned more than twice ~ who wouldn't be looking for the red flags? We did talk about it some more and he said that what happened was a mistake ~ on his part. And he knows, just as I do, what almost was lost. Can't blame him for finding it hard to trust women, but he's trusting me, making the effort to trust me, and that's all I can ask for. I did tell him that I do stupid things, things I think are harmless, that I don't see the effect they have. That is my bad and need to realize what harm it could cause. I'm not a push-over and never will be. And so far he likes me just for the way I am. That's the way it should be, right?
PWSX3 Posted October 25, 2006 Posted October 25, 2006 You do get a thumbs up from me to standing your ground yet talking out the situation and coming up with a solution even if there wasn't a wrong or right. You are both are happy now and you understand each other that much more and like you said it built just a little more trust in the love bank for the two of you. I was reading a book last night and it said we should never do anything that we wouldn't do in front of or without our spouse. I don't know if this applies to your situation.
ilmw Posted October 25, 2006 Posted October 25, 2006 I was reading a book last night and it said we should never do anything that we wouldn't do in front of or without our spouse. I don't know if this applies to your situation. Thats good advice.... I have the same philosophy for work.. but it goes like this... everything you do... act as if you have a camera on you... if you would not do something in the eye of a camera...don't do it at all... Same kinda goes for a marriage/relationship... Honesty..integrity... ethics... all applies... Well thats just me:p
dgiirl Posted October 25, 2006 Posted October 25, 2006 I don't think its so much of him showing a potential for controlling. More just that he's so cautious of relationships, has been burned more than twice ~ who wouldn't be looking for the red flags? We did talk about it some more and he said that what happened was a mistake ~ on his part. And he knows, just as I do, what almost was lost. Can't blame him for finding it hard to trust women, but he's trusting me, making the effort to trust me, and that's all I can ask for. I did tell him that I do stupid things, things I think are harmless, that I don't see the effect they have. That is my bad and need to realize what harm it could cause. I'm not a push-over and never will be. And so far he likes me just for the way I am. That's the way it should be, right? I didnt mean his character is showing a potential for being controlling. I dont know him, so I cannot judge his character. I simply wanted to point out that, although he has understandable reasons to be cautious, you do not want to create an environment to enable him to continue to be insecure. In every relationship, both parties contribute to the health or dysfunction of the relationship. Him being insecure, mixed with your willingless to please could create a dangerous dynamic where you are watching every step you make in order to pacify his insecurities, and since you are pacifying his insecurities, he'll expect you to keep doing it. And thus a dangerous cycle begins. You both would be at fault and this is more for YOU to watch your own actions and how you contribute to your relationship. I'm very glad to see you both have talked it out and he admits where he was wrong. This is very good. However, I'm still worried about your own actions. Stop putting yourself into a negative light. You're not doing "stupid" things. If you continue to think negatively about yourself, people will start to believe you. I use to call myself a bitch because I would try to assert myself. I called myself it so much that my exh started believing it whenever i asked for anything. Remember, you have as much control over this relationship as he does, and if you want others to respect you, you need to respect yourself. Like me, you are probably so use to talking badly about yourself and your exh validating your words, that it's just become habit. But now's the time to deprogram yourself and stop with the negative internal dialogue. You have a fresh new start with someone amazing. You dont want to start it off on the wrong foot by repeating past mistakes.
ilmw Posted October 25, 2006 Posted October 25, 2006 I didnt mean his character is showing a potential for being controlling. I dont know him, so I cannot judge his character. I simply wanted to point out that, although he has understandable reasons to be cautious, you do not want to create an environment to enable him to continue to be insecure. In every relationship, both parties contribute to the health or dysfunction of the relationship. Him being insecure, mixed with your willingless to please could create a dangerous dynamic where you are watching every step you make in order to pacify his insecurities, and since you are pacifying his insecurities, he'll expect you to keep doing it. And thus a dangerous cycle begins. You both would be at fault and this is more for YOU to watch your own actions and how you contribute to your relationship. I'm very glad to see you both have talked it out and he admits where he was wrong. This is very good. However, I'm still worried about your own actions. Stop putting yourself into a negative light. You're not doing "stupid" things. If you continue to think negatively about yourself, people will start to believe you. I use to call myself a bitch because I would try to assert myself. I called myself it so much that my exh started believing it whenever i asked for anything. Remember, you have as much control over this relationship as he does, and if you want others to respect you, you need to respect yourself. Like me, you are probably so use to talking badly about yourself and your exh validating your words, that it's just become habit. But now's the time to deprogram yourself and stop with the negative internal dialogue. You have a fresh new start with someone amazing. You dont want to start it off on the wrong foot by repeating past mistakes. Wow...great post...and advice.... Where you learn all them thar fancy words... been to college? ..(kidding)
Gunny376 Posted October 25, 2006 Posted October 25, 2006 When I was in the car selling business (hanging head in shame) the office manager was a pure, USDA certified "Bitch" We had and F&I manager named Jimmy "K" (he was Greek, migrated to Canda and the the U.S. and then to South Alabama, and no-one could pronounce his last name.) She asked Jimmy, "Jimmy? Why don't men like me?" In typical form, Jimmy "K" looked at her as he took a drag off his cigarette, and without flinching said, "Becuase you're a bitch! Thing is, you don't know you're a bitch. Me? I'm an *******, but I know I'm an *******! You? You're a bitch, but don't know it!" The key is knowing who and what you're are and not apolgizing for it. Bottom line? Be yourself!
Author Lor Posted October 25, 2006 Author Posted October 25, 2006 All of you are so right and give me such great advice! That's part of why I'm still here. What would I do without you guys! I am being cautious, just trying to take things slow and steady. The time to work on keeping us as us is now, not a week or month or a year from now. I am who I am, can't and won't be something I'm not ~ and I am actually happy with who I am now. Can I be a bitch? Ask the lady on the phone trying to talk to me about keeping up my septic tank while my supper is getting ready to burn. I want to be like my daughter; 5 yrs old and stands up for herself when she's being bullied. I don't ever want her to lose that confidence in herself! When that incident happened, I had started to try and talk to him, told him I'm not his xW's and to not shut me out. He's the type that, when burned, he'll turn his back and walk away, no one is gonna hurt him like that again. And I could tell that from the start. He's extremely laid back otherwise and loves to joke and have fun. But when someone hurts him or he could be hurt, he won't allow it. So, for him to have taken the chance to let himself possibly be hurt by me means so much. It shows what he does feel for me, that he wants to trust me, that we are worth trying for. I do stupid things, and yes, they are stupid sometimes. Everyone does them, just depending on the person whether its deliberate or not. With me it's usually not deliberate, just naive. Yeah, he'll have to understand that I do have male friends, and I do have fun talking to them. He'll either trust me or he won't. But I know in my heart that nothing I will do is to consciously go behind his back. So, if it doesn't work out for some reason, I'll be able to walk away knowing I did nothing wrong, that I gave myself completely to the relationship. One thing I am very proud of myself for is for not hanging onto what happened. Used to be I'd keep dragging it out, examining it from all angles, would get angry for being unjustly accused.....not this time! Its all a learning experience. And for once I'm letting it go ~ its over and done. He's since shown me what I do mean to him and that he does value me for who I am. I do have a lot to give and need to learn how to take, so every day is another step.
FlyingHigh Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 HI Lor, Great to hear you've moved on. As for "relationship" rule book?....Just treat your guy the way you want to be treated. It's okay to have male friends and vice versa. But it can be inappropriate to be on the cell if you are in the company of others, especially on a date. Personally, I think it's just downright rude even if the company is a girlfriend. I especially hate it when I'm at a restaurant, waiting in line at a bank, grocery store, post office, etc.. and someone is on the phone talking very loud, holding up the line and just plain oblivious to what's going on around them. Had to tell a few people to get off the phone and be considerate.....sigh...whatever did we do before cell phones, internet?....LOL! Convience, yes! But, they created lack of ettiquette! And you know what? Americans are the worse! Hate to say it, but it's true! Anyone been to Europe lately? Been to Paris, Rome and London. Europeans when their cell rings, they walk away from the crowd and talk QUIETLY.... Americans? Hell, by the end of their cell talk, we pretty much know exactly what they do for a living, marital status and whatever their life story is and if they're picking up a half gallon of 2% milk on the way home! Americans are emotionally attached to their cell phones! You think you're not? (not directed at you Lor ). How often do you check your cell to see if you got a message or you "think" you heard it ring and then you check it? Aha! There you go! :laugh: Like you, your guy entered a relationship with you with some excess baggage from his past. You two are learning to trust and figure things out. In the process you will stumble. Important to not beat yourself up for it or compare each other from your previous marriages. It's not fair to either of you or your relationship. Hopefully, by now, you've deactivitaed your membership from online dating. Sounds like....you two are in serious mode...Enjoy!
Gunny376 Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 Americans? Hell, by the end of their cell talk, we pretty much know exactly what they do for a living, marital status and whatever their life story is and if they're picking up a half gallon of 2% milk on the way home! Americans are emotionally attached to their cell phones! You think you're not? (not directed at you Lor ). How often do you check your cell to see if you got a message or you "think" you heard it ring and then you check it? Aha! There you go! :laugh: I don't even own a cell phone~!
dgiirl Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 I don't even own a cell phone~! lol the only reason i have a cell is it's work... i cannot remember the number, i need to check the cell phone phone book to give it to people, and i often "forget" to charge it and it sits in my purse dead about 90% of the time lol They wanted me to carry a cell, well i'm carrying it
ilmw Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 lol the only reason i have a cell is it's work... i cannot remember the number, i need to check the cell phone phone book to give it to people, and i often "forget" to charge it and it sits in my purse dead about 90% of the time lol They wanted me to carry a cell, well i'm carrying it :lmao: ...me too...! Yes let me give you my work cell # for a follow up interview... ummm... ahhh....eeeeehhh.. oh??.. there is my number... Real professional.... :lmao: :lmao:
Mz. Pixie Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 I was reading a book last night and it said we should never do anything that we wouldn't do in front of or without our spouse. I don't know if this applies to your situation. I'm in agreement with this, however, this guy is not her husband. I'm sorry Lor- I would be very offended by this whole thing. (I apologize in advance for sounding so negative- I'm really not just stating reality) I get that he's been hurt but you guys have been going out- what a month?? Has he asked for you to be exclusive with him or not to date anyone else? Have you made that agreement? If not, then he was way out of line, IMO. You know my husband was cheated on by his exwife. She left him for the OM and ended up pregnant with the OM's baby before the divorce was final but yet, he trusts me- the former wayward wife! Not only has he been cheated on by her but by at least one or two former girlfriends. After we made a decision to be exclusive when dating I proved myself to him by being where I said I'd be, calling when I said I would, etc. Yet, I have male friends- who call me from time to time. Heck, my former OM calls me every now and then (ugh, it's nothing really) and he doesn't get upset about it. At all. IMO you also need to be careful of someone who paints themselves totally the hero in their prior relationships. If he talks negatively about his former spouses and sees nothing that he might have contributed to the demise of the marriage, that is a red flag to me. Wouldn't you agree having been where you are?? I do not think you did anything wrong. I do not think you had anything to apologize for. I understand completely what he's been through and he does sound like a nice guy, but please be very careful. Your kids have met him and really like him, and I'd hate for them to get their hearts broken as well!
Author Lor Posted October 26, 2006 Author Posted October 26, 2006 thanks Flyinghigh and MzP. You are both right. and yeah, I do check my cellphone quite a bit; my kids have two, sometimes the babysitter calls, the school, coworkers, or the new BF sends me a note. The latter is my favorite! okay, I started to write a really long response and I'll just shorten it down. What I've seen so far I like, even with the "problems" per say, on both our parts. Hindsight is 20/20 and we've both learned a lot over the years, know what we've done wrong before, and will take it slow and see what happens. 2 months isn't a long time but its enough to be a start. My post the other day was feeling down and upset because of what happened, more so at myself for falling into the old habit of not thinking before doing something, taking someone for granted. I'm hardest on myself. He honestly was not that hard on me, and in fact apologized to me. Can't remember when that last happened! Anyway, thanks, I've listened and I've learned and I'll continue to do so. This dating stuff is hard work!
Author Lor Posted October 26, 2006 Author Posted October 26, 2006 Has he asked for you to be exclusive with him or not to date anyone else? Have you made that agreement? Your kids have met him and really like him, and I'd hate for them to get their hearts broken as well! Actually, I told him I didn't feel comfortable seeing anyone else after seeing him and dating him, and he feels the same so yeah, its exclusive and going on 2 months now. I don't want to see my kids hurt either. My kids are one of the biggest indications of a persons character and they have all said they really like him ~ that alone tells me a lot. But my eyes are open and I won't get caught in another bad relationship agaon. I'm giving at least a year to see if anything changes before knowing one way or the other.
Mz. Pixie Posted October 26, 2006 Posted October 26, 2006 I don't want to see my kids hurt either. Oh, I'm sure you don't. I wasn't trying to imply anything else. When is your divorce final?? What are this guys thoughts about going from no kids to a whole bunch??
Author Lor Posted October 26, 2006 Author Posted October 26, 2006 Oh, I'm sure you don't. I wasn't trying to imply anything else. Didn't cross my mind that you were. A lot of people have been telling me to be careful and to look for the signs.....sometimes I feel like saying, can't I just be happy? But they wouldn't be my friends if they didn't watch out for me. When is your divorce final?? My court date is set for Dec 15th.....50 days away...not that I'm counting. Gonna be a great Christmas present to myself! What are this guys thoughts about going from no kids to a whole bunch?? He loves kids, you can tell. I asked why he never had kids and he said it never seemed like the right time, and now I hope it doesn't bother him that I can't have anymore, not that I'd want to anyway. 3 kids is enough for me, especially when I keep "adopting" my son's friends, too. He, my 2 youngest and I had an almost 2 hour ticklefest one day.....they ganged up on me!.....and that's something that my kids haven't had a whole lot of, but have wanted. I've played with them like that, but not for that long. He's not their father and isn't looking to be, so that takes pressure off of everyone.
FlyingHigh Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 I don't even own a cell phone~! Gunny, you're a rare breed! :D
FlyingHigh Posted October 27, 2006 Posted October 27, 2006 He loves kids, you can tell. I asked why he never had kids and he said it never seemed like the right time, and now I hope it doesn't bother him that I can't have anymore, not that I'd want to anyway. 3 kids is enough for me, especially when I keep "adopting" my son's friends, too. He, my 2 youngest and I had an almost 2 hour ticklefest one day.....they ganged up on me!.....and that's something that my kids haven't had a whole lot of, but have wanted. I've played with them like that, but not for that long. He's not their father and isn't looking to be, so that takes pressure off of everyone. My only concern with your new romance is that your kids may have been introduced to him to soon. Don't know...maybe it's just me. Especially since it wasn't established that you two were exclusive prior to meeting your kids. "Had" a self-abosrbed GF who introduced every guy she met to her two daughters. Never married any of the guys. She's a serial cheater, juggling 2-3 guys at a time. That's why I emphasized "had". Really feel sorry for the kids. My divorced sister has been seeing a new guy (second since divorced) but her kids have never met any of the men yet simply because she doesn't want the kids to be attached to the guy too prematurely and wants to make sure that her love life doesn't turn into a revolving door to men. Can't argue with that philosphy. It's traumatic enough an experience to see their parents divorce, let alone watch men waltz into their mother's life through like a revolving door. I probably would've waited just a tad longer to introduce the kids once you knew in your heart the guy is "the one" for you. Don't mean to burst your bubble here, but wondered if this is something you considered?....
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