same ol threads

[silktricks]

OK, I'm going to give some personal examples regarding women signaling. First, know that I am deeply in love with my husband, and would never be unfaithful to him. That said, since I found out about the fact that he had an EA with another woman there have been four separate instances where a man has come onto me. Before that, no man had come onto me for many many years (over twenty), yet I am a pretty woman.

 

So far as I know, I made ZERO advances towards those men. One of them I didn't even notice before he walked up to me. Nothing externally has changed about me. I have neither gained nor lost weight, my hair has not changed, I don't go places I didn't formerly go, etc. Yet SOMETHING about me has changed. I am not aware of what it is, but there is definitely something different that men would now think I may be amenable to their advances when they didn't for so long.

 

I will freely admit that it makes me uncomfortable. I don't like the fact that what happened to me has made me more apparently available to men. But something about ME is different. I am somehow signalling what I was not signalling before. The point is that women signal - we don't necessarily KNOW that we signal, but that doesn't change the fact that we do.

[GreenEyedLady]

A majority of the OW on here are single. I WAS looking for a relationship at the time I met my MM. I wasn't looking for one with a MM, but he didn't present himself as being married. So single women who are dating do put out signals, but they are not first and foremost (and in many cases not even for) the married man. But I think that married people on here don't understand what being single is like in the present.

[BUTAFLY]

And the point was that Butafly didn't remember hearing about any stories where the woman was the initiator. There have been a few lately that were BLATANTLY the initiators. But somehow those are conveniently "forgotten".

 

I stand corrected. I do remember a thread where a poster said she saw and set out to conquer her MM.

 

But my thing is HE put himself out there to conquered by her but by some post here it seems that he had no choice but to 'agree' the the A because the women has the final say? I'm I getting this right?

[silktricks]

Not as far as I'm concerned. I think both are at fault. BOTH. Not just the MM, not just the OW

[BUTAFLY]

the OW did not reject the advances of the MM when she should have.

 

Nobody said that the OW was forced to have sex with the MM.

 

Again the women is looked down apon. Fine if you feel that way, but why is it overlooked that this MARRIED man is making the advances in the first place. All I am saying is it has been analyzed to death by people on site but The man is rearly looked at or questioned.

 

I think GreenEyeLady hit the nail on the head. IF women are putting out "singlals" its because the MM is misrepresenting his availablity. ie i'm seperated, i'm single, i'm in the process of divorce.

[johan]

...The man is rearly looked at or questioned.

 

That's because he isn't here posting. What's the point of criticizing someone who isn't here? There have been a few times guys who cheated came on and posted about it, and they got pretty much fried by everyone who responded. Trust me, everyone knows who the creep is. The reason the "other woman" takes so much heat is because she comes on here and makes herself a target.

[pricillia]

I don't think we should blame one or the other in a situation like this.

 

Both parties should be held responsible.

 

men vs women... women vs men I hate that crap!!!

 

Men and women are different from eachother and we should celebrate those differences. (within reason) LOL

 

There are some men I don't care for and there are some women I don't care for, it is just the way it goes.

 

 

Te fact is women have power over men and men have power over women, to blame one sex for the other ones shortcoming is a waste of time

[BUTAFLY]

Yes, the consensus is that men are lustful beasts that can't control their behaviour, women are more refined and must be responsible for enforcing moral standards.

 

Groan.

 

I'm starting to see that this is the majority consensus. Its sad but I guess I understand it in a way. Both groups of women love this man and what do you do when you love someone? You defend and make justifications for their actions. So each group will not place the blame on the MM therefor its always going to be W vs OW. How sad for the ladies and lucky for the men.

[pricillia]

I'm starting to see that this is the majority consensus. Its sad but I guess I understand it in a way. Both groups of women love this man and what do you do when you love someone? You defend and make justifications for their actions. So each group will not place the blame on the MM therefor its always going to be W vs OW. How sad for the ladies and lucky for the men.

 

Is someone blaming you or are you feeling guilty?

[silktricks]

Most BS on this site blame both their husbands and the OW, with primary blame on the HUSBAND. Most OW on this site take ZERO responsibility and totally blame the MM.

 

This to me is very indicative of their mindset overall. It actually makes me sad for women.

[pricillia]

I don't think we should blame one or the other in a situation like this.

 

Both parties should be held responsible.

 

men vs women... women vs men I hate that crap!!!

 

Men and women are different from eachother and we should celebrate those differences. (within reason) LOL

 

There are some men I don't care for and there are some women I don't care for, it is just the way it goes.

 

 

Te fact is women have power over men and men have power over women, to blame one sex for the other ones shortcoming is a waste of time

 

no both parties should take responsibility for what they have done, are doing...

 

so who thinks that there is one person for everyone

or they think that the one they love is really for them, and then after they get married it is too late and they are just not satisfied and they meet someone outside the marriage who does it for them.

 

no one said relationships were easy

 

men have cheated and women have cheated it always was and always will be...

[BUTAFLY]

Not at all .

My situation is a little different from the typical stories on LS. I am looking at this from a complete non bias point of view and I just don't see how the MM is continuously overlooked. But like I said above, I kinda get. But just you posing that again makes me shake my head ...I hate to see women point the finger at eachother. Why can't anyone have a different perspective?

Is someone blaming you or are you feeling guilty?

[BenThereDunThat]

That's because he isn't here posting. What's the point of criticizing someone who isn't here? There have been a few times guys who cheated came on and posted about it, and they got pretty much fried by everyone who responded. Trust me, everyone knows who the creep is. The reason the "other woman" takes so much heat is because she comes on here and makes herself a target.

 

That's just it right there - TARGET. If an OW/OM (let's just say OP, shall we?) is here it is usually, almost always, for support to get out of something they regret having gotten into. Regardless of how it happened, why it happened. They should not be made a target!!

 

And in general, I don't think they always are. It's just the people wearing a big badge of MORALITY who decide to pop in here to give their two cents for no other reason than to make the OP feel like crap and to make themselves look righteous, those people really piss me off.

 

But, I understand you have to put up with those few when you're posting on a public forum. Like I said, those I choose to ignore. The ones who have intelligent input, coming from their own experience on either side of the issue, those I will listen to and respect their opinions.

[Guest]

Why can't anyone have a different perspective?

 

Not exactly sure if this is what you mean, but as far as I am concerned, the responsibility for saying "no" rests with the MM. And I know that is not a popular belief, and I will be lambasted for it.

 

I am in love with this man and yes, I want him to leave W. So why should I be the one that moves over to give him the space to "work on his marriage"? If he wants to work on it, then he should be staying away from me. His working to reconcile with her is contradictory to my goals. End of story.

 

I am responsible to ME. And when I have had enough then I will end it. But I will not end it for W. That is for him to do, if that is what he wants. I thought that this was a forum for people involved with MO, but it in reality it is more for those breaking up with MO.

[spinderella]

I think most of this topic has been covered.

 

I think OW do become the target and not just in this forum, so I do disagree with whomever said that they are only targetted in this forum because they put themselves out here. As another poster said, women are far bytchier against each other than men, and they are quite often extremely competetive with each other, especially over men. The men are percieved as the prize, and the women the competition, no matter what kind of cake-eating pig he is.

 

Of course the man with his actions most definetly encourages this competetiveness, as he sets the both women up against each other. In this way it becomes far easier for the woman to try to see her competition as undesirable. It also saves him too, for he knows that as long as he keeps the competition going, he is always going to be percieved as the prize and off the hook for the blame. It wouldn't take long for even the most stupid of men to figure out that this is working for him.

[johan]

...so I do disagree with whomever said that they are only targetted in this forum because they put themselves out here. As another poster said, women are far bytchier against each other than men...

 

Really. Go find a few threads by guys who admitted to cheating and see who gets treated worse. I think it's even-handed. And I think that's appropriate.

[jonesgirly]

I believe everyone is responsible for themselves.

 

The married person - the one who chases and pursues the 'other person' -

 

The other person - for accepting advances and consummating the relationship (when KNOWING their partner is married).

 

I've been on both sides. As a wife who's husband pursued another, and as a women, who has been pursued by married men.

 

In my youth (20's, 30's), there was an insecurity that was lessened by the attention of older, more powerful, married men. I never became involved with them, but just the 'thought' of being attractive to 'them' was a powerful feeling.

 

I also went through a phase that I decided to ONLY date 'married' or otherwise attached men. It was a time that I did NOT want the burden of a 'real' relationship, but desired the attention/companionship of a man.

 

I'm sure the same is true for the opposite sex.

 

There are temptations everywhere, and each person decides there own 'moral code.' I believe that when you're in a loving, committed relationship, you become self-governing by choice. That is, you CHOOSE to be loyal/faithful or 'not.'

 

Because there is no shortage of married people willing to break their vows or who are not in truly 'loving/committed' relationships, it defaults to the rest of us WHO ARE in those relationships to make the choice.

 

Its always about choice.

[consternation]

I thought that this was a forum for people involved with MO, but it in reality it is more for those breaking up with MO.

 

The irony.

 

That's because they never work out.

 

People may start posting because they are involved with a MP, but eventually they're posting because they're breaking up with one.

[UnknowingOW]

Most BS on this site blame both their husbands and the OW, with primary blame on the HUSBAND. Most OW on this site take ZERO responsibility and totally blame the MM.

 

This to me is very indicative of their mindset overall. It actually makes me sad for women.

 

Silk, this is not meant as a personal attack; just an opinion from reading many of your post.

 

First, no thanks for the sympathy...not needed or wanted. I gather from your post you have never been an OW either knowingly or unknowingly. So what value do you bring to this forum?

 

Do you actually believe the OW takes ZERO responsiblity for the A? Who cares about who is blaming who. It's happen. Now how do you get past it an move on with grace and diginity as you had before you entered into this hell? I am talking about all parties involved in the affair.

 

To be perfectly frank, the majority of OW only blame their MM for persuing them; not for having the affair. Most OW will protect the MM until the day they die...why...because they love the MM and would never hurt them or their family.

 

What do you know of the mindset of the OW? All of the OW's I know from LS are educated, intelligent, strong, and remarkable woman, who never in their life expected to be in an affair. All woman want the same fairytale...prince charming, house, kids, and happily everafter...not an affair.

 

Are you reading these post, or are you venting your own frustrations from your H's EA? What part of the OW's mindset do you not get? The fact they find themselves in an affair? They the OW finds themselves in love with a MM? The fact they want out because it is wrong for them?

 

After reading many of your post it finally dawned on me why you keep posting in the OW/OM board...anger, resentment, and trust.

When will you move on with your life and learn to forgive those whom have wronged you?

 

Stop pointing blame and bashing. Think about your motives as to why you would lash out and say some of the things you say. Your post are not tough love, not harsh advice. They are fear and loathing of something you have no control over. This is fear an loathing that could happen in your life again if you don't take control and move on with your life and marriage.

 

It makes me sad that you haven't moved on and gotten to a happier place in your life. If you look around as to whom is posting you'll see that the majority of OW's have moved on with their life and no longer wish to be associated with the affair or all the stigmatisms which go along with it. Why? Because to truly move on with life you have to forgive and let go.

 

-Unk

[whichwayisup]

So what value do you bring to this forum?

 

A different view. Just like anybody else who feels they want to offer up advice or share their thoughts. Just because it's an OW/OM forum, doesn't exclude others from replying to posts. Silk and many others bring a different POV, maybe more objective than someone who's in affair, getting out of one or had one in the past. A woman's view will be different than a man's view.

 

People may start posting because they are involved with a MP, but eventually they're posting because they're breaking up with one.

 

This is true. And most who do post are wanting out, or trying their best to get out. Unfortunately there have been afew Ow in the past who come to brag about their MM, with an in your face attitude, which pisses off just about anybody and everybody...It's those OW who cause(d) reaction and alot of flaming wars in this part of the forum.

[Walking away]

I agree Unk.

 

I, too, know many of the OW that post on this forum. My assessment of them is exactly as yours. Most of us are moving beyond the affair and are hopeful for a better life without the pain and stigma of the affair.

 

Many of us have torn ourselves up trying to resolve the affair one way or another. I would venture that very, very few of the women I know would continue in this path of emotional destruction.

 

Very few women PLAN on having an affair. Perhaps I put out a "vibe" to my MM, but that was simply because I was told by him that he was not married. I, like others such as Unk and Butafly, cannot be held responsible for pursuing a MM. We simply did not know.

 

But, once I became aware of his marital status, I became a willing partner. And it tore me up inside. It went against everything I believed. So, with much struggle and pain, I left. It was the best decision I have ever made.

 

The common theme that I can see with most OW is the same as you. We all seem to want it all. The romance, the love, and the "happily ever after." I would be naive to believe that there are not predators out there who SEARCH for MM, but I know of none personally from this forum.

 

We accept responsibility for our actions, and overwhelmingly, we suffer for our folly with consorting with a MM.

 

I agree with you. It is the manner in which one extricates oneself from the clutches of the affair that is most indicative of a person's character. Most of us exited our relationships with grace and dignity.

 

And, I personally, am very proud of those who found their way through the storm and arrived on the other side of the affair. I would consider myself one of them.

 

These are strong, beautiful, intelligent women. I, personally, am proud to call any one of them my friends.

 

Hugs, Unk

WA

[BenThereDunThat]

I've never once not taken responsibility for my part. I also never completely blamed him either. To do that would be saying I'm a mindless imbecile. I've been hateful about him here, that's for sure. But never once did I blame him entirely.

 

I can definitely say, and have said, we shared the blame equally. Neither one of us was an agressive pursuer when the friendship went out of bounds.

 

Maybe there's some that I haven't read, but I haven't seen any OW post here that they were a complete and total victim.

 

And I totally agree. Unless you're here to offer a constructive viewpoint, why come here? Like Unk said, no one is looking for sympathy. I have been very appreciative of the viewpoints of the BS's who have weighed in on their perspective. The ones who do it without bashing, that is.

[UnknowingOW]

This has nothing to do with exclusion or different POVs. It's one thing to be objective. It is another to be lashing out of anger, loathing and resentment, which is not being "more objective".

 

I do agree, POV are valuable and needed for guidence, but not bashing...there is no value in that.

[Spinderella]

Really. Go find a few threads by guys who admitted to cheating and see who gets treated worse. I think it's even-handed. And I think that's appropriate.

I did as you requested Johan, and I stand corrected if we are talking of life in this forum. However, since I am new, and have not really read alot before joining, I was basing my answer on what I have witnessed in the real world. I am very observant of human nature, which is why I became interested in this forum, and this is what I have seen, mainly from women toward other women.

Men generally dislike other men who seem to have sex with alot of women, I usually think this is also a case of jealousy, but I don't often hear men putting the blame of an affair onto the OM, unless it is their specific situation. Although perhaps it is simply that women talk more than men about these things.

[silktricks]

Silk, this is not meant as a personal attack; just an opinion from reading many of your post.

 

First, no thanks for the sympathy...not needed or wanted. I gather from your post you have never been an OW either knowingly or unknowingly. So what value do you bring to this forum?

 

Well, many times I've been thanked for my posts, so someone must think I bring some value.

 

And much to my shame, yes, I was an OW once in my life. As I said in a different post, I have spent a great deal of my life regreting and making amends for pain I caused other people.

 

Do you actually believe the OW takes ZERO responsiblity for the A? Who cares about who is blaming who. It's happen. Now how do you get past it an move on with grace and diginity as you had before you entered into this hell? I am talking about all parties involved in the affair.

 

To be perfectly frank, the majority of OW only blame their MM for persuing them; not for having the affair. Most OW will protect the MM until the day they die...why...because they love the MM and would never hurt them or their family.

 

To be perfectly frank, I do believe that the majority of women who post here take zero responsibility. The majority of OW that I have seen on this forum absolutely blame the MM - totally. The say that the responsibility for an affair with a married person is only up to the married person. That the responsibility is theirs and theirs alone. That HE knows that he is married and has chosen to break those vows, it is none of her business.

 

What do you know of the mindset of the OW? All of the OW's I know from LS are educated, intelligent, strong, and remarkable woman, who never in their life expected to be in an affair. All woman want the same fairytale...prince charming, house, kids, and happily everafter...not an affair.

As I said, I have been there a long time ago. I didn't - and still don't - think it necessary for me to say that for my input to have some value. However, since you obviously believe that a person can only have input into your situation if you have actually lived it, then know that I have - and regret it every single day of my life.

 

Are you reading these post, or are you venting your own frustrations from your H's EA? What part of the OW's mindset do you not get? The fact they find themselves in an affair? They the OW finds themselves in love with a MM? The fact they want out because it is wrong for them?

I think I probably get every part of the OW's mindset. That's the problem. I hear you. I read what you say and understand maybe more than you wish I did. People don't "find" themselves in love with a MM. Love doesn't leap on you like a ravening beast. It grows, and growth takes time. So unless you're one of the stupidest people on the face of the earth, you are WELL AWARE that you are involved with a married person long before you are in love. It is my fervent desire that women will realize at that point that they are making the wrong choices.

 

After reading many of your post it finally dawned on me why you keep posting in the OW/OM board...anger, resentment, and trust.

When will you move on with your life and learn to forgive those whom have wronged you?

 

Stop pointing blame and bashing. Think about your motives as to why you would lash out and say some of the things you say. Your post are not tough love, not harsh advice. They are fear and loathing of something you have no control over. This is fear an loathing that could happen in your life again if you don't take control and move on with your life and marriage.

I haven't been blaming, nor bashing. What I have been doing is pointing out that not only the MAN is at fault. And this struck an obviously very strong chord with you. In your opinion I have been bashing. I'm sorry that you feel that way. Up to this point I haven't been. I can see that you are an absolute master at it, however. In a very personal way as well.

 

By the way, I have zero fear that my husband would ever in any way be unfaithful again. What he did was understandable, as I have said in many previous posts. We have resolved the problems that we both had. He would, I know, rather die than get involved with another woman.

 

It makes me sad that you haven't moved on and gotten to a happier place in your life. If you look around as to whom is posting you'll see that the majority of OW's have moved on with their life and no longer wish to be associated with the affair or all the stigmatisms which go along with it. Why? Because to truly move on with life you have to forgive and let go.

 

-Unk

 

You aren't sad that I haven't "moved on" - because you don't know me, and really don't care how I feel in any way. You don't know where I'm at. You just make rash assumptions based on what you want to believe about me. You've made that most completely clear by this post. I also don't care how you feel - at a personal level. I don't know you. If I knew you personally I might like you. If you knew me personally you might like me. But we don't.

 

I have no doubt that most OW are wonderful people. Most BS are as well. Really, most people are quite wonderful. But, everyone makes some really bad choices on occasion. I post here because I hope that I can help someone not make a bad choice. I hope that someone who isn't as far along as you are in your recovery from an affair might see a different point of view from someone who rally has experienced both sides.