Ragazzo Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 My wife who's from an ad agency has a client who she has been working with for 10 yrs. now.They go on business meetings,conferences & shoots here and aborad. I meet this married client fairly often and is quite friendly with me and our kids.There were times he would even ask for my advice on business matters. Last year, the 2 of them went to Thailand sponsored by a subsidiary of his company and stayed there for 10 days. I called her up on her hotel rm but the desk said she's not registered but her client is. I confronted her once she came back by asking her "How would she feel if she finds out that I stayed in the same bedroom with a female co-worker ?" and she said "It's fine.Why are you asking?" .Then after I asked if she and OM slept in the same room? She said yes only because the clients company can only afford a suite rather than 2 single rms but nothing sexual happened and she apologized if it hurt me. Maybe I was being naive or in denial, but I allowed her to attend two more out-of-town conferences with OM. She said that for my peace and assurance she will pay for her own room.For someone so finicky about keeping receipts for tax purposes, my wife didn't have any of her hotel receipts on this trip saying that she gave the cash to OM to pay for it since OM did the reservation. Thus OM has the receipts. I snooped on her mobile phone and found texts she sent to him like" Im alone ,I think you can call" and once when my family and I were on the beach and OM is in Sonoma,she sent him a text saying "Wish u were here too..." Plus many more where they inform each other that they're both safely at home,etc. I confronted her again about it and she flatly denied that she's having an affair. The texts ,she said ,are what they are and meant really nothing.It's the same texts she would send to any of her friends. When I asked her who he really is for her later on- She said that -He's a Best Friend.I got upset saying that all the while I thought I am your best friend. Best being superlative should only be one. Now she's upset saying that she hates it when I become too "technical" and obsessed with semantics. Anyway , to cut along story short, she promised that she will not deal with OM unless it is strictly business. This week, I found out that they still have lunches together and might attend a shoot in Japan soon.In minor emergencies like using the toilet when she's on the road, she would rather go to her Client's bathroom even if my office is one block away from OM. My questions is can a MM and MW sleep in the same bedroom consider each other best friends and not do anything sexual? Honestly ,even if it is an emotional affair, it still devastating. I believe I have been a good husband and father but we would argue on things that she believes I failed her on especially financially.I can not tell her easily to stop all her communications with this man because he is a good client/customer of her company and doing so might affect the company's revenues. My wife earns a little more than I do and it has not been an issue for me but she nags me for not earning enough and not earning enough means (for her) not prioritizing my family.Ouch! I think she's justifying her relationship with OM merely because his account helps the family survive.Mind you, we leave a comfortable middle class life but she considers our earnings dismal. She says that she wouldn't mind if I too, would have a female best friend. But I'm not going to give her the pleasure of saying -that I can't fault her because I'm doing the same thing. Besides, I think it will also be unfair to whoever I chose to be my best friend if she knows I using her to settle a score with my wife. Need advice-I'm scared (for our 3 wonderful kids) & lost!
Poboy Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 wow , thats rough. you have been very patient & leanient towards her & her attidude like its cool to be in the same bed with someone else... i would have shown her the door long back.all things point to that she is having an affair with this guy BUT you can never be sure until she confesses. anyways , since kids are involved ... serious counselling is the only solution if you want the marriage to work, find a good marriage counsellor. also you have to be more strong in handling this cause it looks like she is dominating the marriage and getting away with the crime very easily.
Bryanp Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 I am very sorry for you. It is pretty clear that she is having an affair with this man. Her text messages pretty much confirm it. The fact that she stays in the same hotel room with him for 10 days and does it again saying she cannot find receipts etc. says it all. You have been way too accepting of this. She is humiliating and disrespecting you in a terrible way. It is absolutely essential that you contact the OM's wife and discuss all of the information you have. I am sure she would not be pleased but exposure is the key. The fact that your wife also says for you to go and find a female friends indicates she is in pretty deep with this OM. I would strongly suggest that the both of you be tested for STD's and certainly marriage counseling is in order. Look your wife is in an emotional and physical affair. She has made a mockery of her boundaries. Please expose this to his wife. If you do not do this then you are enabling this man to continue to screw your wife. Your wife is continuing to lie to you. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. It is time to stop burying your head in the sand. Do you really need to have a piano fall on your head to realize what is happening?
jonesgirly Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 Ragazzo.....place both of your hands on the ground, palm side down. Now push down while pulling your head out of the sand at the same time. You've buried your head in the sand long enough. With 3 kids in the mix, you've got some serious considerations here. Is the OM married? If yes, I wonder if his wife knows about their 'sleeping' arrangements. I don't know, it sounds like your W is going to deny pretty much everything at this point. You can go into stealth-mode to gain enough indisputable evidence, so that her denials become a non-issue. BUT it requires a heart of steel in order 'digest' what you discover without blowing it. Sleeping in the same room for 10 days in another country? YEAH........only if they're BOTH quadriplegics. You allude to issues of being accused of not making enough money to support the family. Bullsheet. Anything that was a problem between the two of you in your marriage is NOT resolved by having a long-term affair. You've already caught her in some lies. GUARANTEED there's a LOT more out there.
whichwayisup Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 because the clients company can only afford a suite rather than 2 single rms That is NOT true, no way... She is lying to you, and not thinking clearly at all...Which is making her "think" now on how to cover her tracks...To be more sneaky since she knows you're figuring things out. I'm sorry for your pain and it's awful that she could do this to you and your children.
johan Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 So she's saying the client company's policy is to room married men and women together when on business trips? Which company actually made this decision? The client company or your wife's? If it was out of her control and was the decision of someone else, I think you could certainly verify this is a policy directly with that person. On the other hand, if it's not a policy, it could be grounds for firing. I think it's time to be ruthless. You're a thoughtful and caring guy, obviously, and you're letting the nuances of what she says actually take root in your head. I think you have a right to choose your own career. I think in many cases money is not all there is in life, and that's your right to choose. So her nagging shouldn't be a factor here. In fact, you shouldn't even listen to it anymore. I think you should make it clear that, sure acquaintance-type friends of the opposite sex are ok, but she's crossed a line, and now it's time to choose which side of the line she wants to be on. Tell her you'll take this up with her HR department and see what they have to say about it. Tell her you're going to invite him and his wife over. It's time for you all to be friends. Tell her this is certainly a topic worth discussing amongst the four of you, if it's ok. You'd certainly feel more at ease with this if you could see his wife at ease with it. She's screwing with you. So screw her. Get mean about this and don't let up until you get a resolution. In the end, she'll either quit messing with your head, because she loves you, or she'll leave you because her heart's not in it. You might as well get your answer. Or maybe you'll just drive the whole thing underground. I honestly think part of her is out of your relationship already. If she were give up this guy, she's already revealed this tendency. The next Mr. Charming to come around will cause a repeat. Close friendships between men and women who are already in relationships are emotional affairs by definition.
norajane Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 If client company has the cash to send people on trips to Thailand, they can most certainly afford to pay for two single rooms. Last time I checked, Thailand isn't so expensive. Not to mention, that's the most asinine thing I've ever heard of! And why wouldn't HER company pay for her room? I travel a lot for business and there's no sharing of rooms for the opposite sex! She's lying to you about that, she's lying to you about not having receipts for her own room (she never got her own room!), she's lying to you about the text messages, she's lying to you about everything - she's having an affair. You can't save this marriage if she won't even admit that she's having an affair. If I were you, I'd be making an appointment with a lawyer and filing for divorce ASAP. I'd be contacting this man's wife so she's not in the dark about his affair, too. And I'd be calling both his company and hers to discuss their policy on hotel arrangements...but that would be my vindictive side coming out. Most companies have written policies against dating clients, so I'd be angling to get them both fired.
whichwayisup Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 Exactly! If they are just "bestfriends" then neither of them will have ANY problems with ALL of you hanging out. (Your wife will have issues with all of you spending time together. Watch her reaction closely...) I also think you need to clue in "his" wife to this situation, what you know so far. It will be a way to stop them and expose the affair out in the open, and it will be harder for them to hide.
LakesideDream Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 Ragazzo, you are paying the price of "looking the other way" to minimize the conflict in your marriage. I know, I did it to. In my case the reasons were not financial, they were emotional. The end result will be the same. Your wife does not "need" you for anything. You are an accessory. When you become a detriment you will be discarded. You can either go away meekly staying in character or you can fight. You wife has been "in charge" so long, and is firmly entrenched. You have nothing to lose fighting. BTW, how does it make you feel knowing your wife is "fellating" and "being penetrated" by another man on her "business trips"? Those thoughts alone should make you mad as hell! If they don't... then just take the easy way out, continue being an accessory, or just fade away.
Michael86 Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 Then after I asked if she and OM slept in the same room? She said yes only because the clients company can only afford a suite rather than 2 single rms but nothing sexual happened and she apologized if it hurt me. Does she really think you would buy such an excuse? She's being extremely obvious about this affair. She's flaunting it and disrespecting you in a major way. She has no regard as to what this will do to you or your children. You cannot allow this to go on. As jonesgirly said, it's time to go into stealth mode. Act like you've completely bought all of her pathetic lies. Once you've accumulated evidence that she can't lie her way out of, it's time to confront her. It's also time to clue the other man's wife in as to what's going on. I'm sorry you're going through this. Good luck to you. Michael
quankanne Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 sorry guy, but I think she's screwing around on you and expects you to buy her lame explanations. I've got two very close guy friends, and we know each other's spouses and we respect the boundaries that come with both our relationships with each other and with our spouses.
HokeyReligions Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 It is not clear that she is having an affair - no one can say for sure but her. Yes, its possible for people of the opposite sex to sleep in the same room and even in the same bed and not have sex. And yes sometimes suites cost less than two rooms - consider taxes and everything else. Who knows what is in the company budget for this expense. You need to find out for sure somehow. Talk to the other guy. He may lie to you, but you may be able to read him better. If you have to hire an investigator, do that. If money is a problem then you two need to really talk about it and a counselor or intermediary may help with that. The focus shouldn't be on who earns what - its in your view and feelings about it and each of your expectations.
reservoirdog1 Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 Then after I asked if she and OM slept in the same room? She said yes only because the clients company can only afford a suite rather than 2 single rms but nothing sexual happened and she apologized if it hurt me. Without a doubt, that sets off my bullshyt meter. Like somebody else said, any company that can afford to send people to Thailand can afford two hotel rooms. Remember, that's the country where something like ten dollars buys a night with a prosititute. Unless they're staying at fancy places, but that flies in the face of the poor-company argument. That, plus the "best friends" text messages... that's what lawyers call "circumstantial evidence." Something's definitely going on. I suggest you hire a PI, put a keylogger on the computer, and get an STD test. And talk to a lawyer.
whichwayisup Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 Yes, its possible for people of the opposite sex to sleep in the same room and even in the same bed and not have sex. And yes sometimes suites cost less than two rooms - consider taxes and everything else. Who knows what is in the company budget for this expense. IF that was the case, she should have called her husband and let him know asap. But there is NO way in heck that this situation would really happen. A married woman and a married man, in the same hotel room to save expenses??? No way. Sending them on a plane to Thailand and then not having enough $$ for TWO Hotel rooms?? Smells like dog caca to me...
Author Ragazzo Posted September 2, 2006 Author Posted September 2, 2006 Thanks for all the advice,guys. I guess it's always easier to look the other way and deny that there's an EA or PA going especially if you have kids than confront your spouse and argue with them. I love my wife and I do not enjoy arguing but you're all right -Time to face the music. I was in her office a few days ago and spoke to a few close friends who are employees of the same agency and they said that gossip is going around about my wife and the client -best friend. They know of the trip but didn't know that they shared rooms. They too are bothered by it but thought al the while that it's just fine with me and that we are both "consenting adults".One even thought we were swingers or open marriage practitioners. Might be difficult though to get her fired (her being a top-rank exec) and their agency wil be affected if they lose the account (him being a top exec too). Thanks again. -Ragazzo
whichwayisup Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 They too are bothered by it but thought al the while that it's just fine with me and that we are both "consenting adults".One even thought we were swingers or open marriage practitioners. Might be difficult though to get her fired (her being a top-rank exec) and their agency wil be affected if they lose the account (him being a top exec too). Sorry, you lost me here. Do you mean the co-works thought this, (open marriage, or swingers) or do you mean you and your wife ARE into that sort of thing? Are you planning on getting them to lose their jobs because of what happened? Either way, I hope for the best. Keep posting, so many here can help you through this.
alphamale Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 dude you better procure a decent lawyer. cool avatar, by the way.
RecordProducer Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 It's obvious that she is sleeping with this guy or at least has an emotional affair. I might be wrong though. But I find it hard to believe that if they were just friends, you wouldn't know about it. Still she wouldn't sleep with him in the same room. I wouldn't sleep with any man in the same room. And this didn't happen once, as in they sold all the rooms and they had no choice, but it's a rule - they sleep together. She gave the receipts to the OM? Why on earth would she do that and why would he take them? because he offered to pay for them? I am sure she would run to show you the receipts after you accused her. There are no receipts. And she used cash... just so you can't trace the bill, right? That's all BS. She is lying. If you're still not sure about that, but want to know, you can always hire a PI. Just don't do anything stupid. People who cheat are not worth suffering for. I don't see how marriage counseling would work when she is denying her affair. MC costs money and I think it would just be a waste of money cuz she would lie to the counselor, too.
alphamale Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 If you're still not sure about that, but want to know, you can always hire a PI. or he could call that show Cheaters and then they'll have a huge team of people with all sorts of audio/visual equipment follow her around and get evidence
jonesgirly Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 Might be difficult though to get her fired (her being a top-rank exec) and their agency wil be affected if they lose the account (him being a top exec too). Are you sure its a good idea to pursue the idea of getting your wife fired? Have you contact the OM's wife yet? I would seriously think about gathering more 'evidence' of their infidelity before progressing to such drastic measures. Consulting with OM's wife would be on the 'to do' list also. I would think going straight to your wifes employer and attempting to get her fired would burn a bridge you may not want to in the long run. I think that the strongest 'evidence' of the affair so far has been the co-workers thinking that you must have an 'open-marriage' of some sort. It must've been obvious to everyone what was going on. YOU have some catching up to do! You could enlist the aid of the co-workers for information-gathering. Talk to the mans wife! Get your ASS to a lawyer Tuesday morning and find out what your legal options are. I HIGHLY doubt that you'd wish to be paying child support to your wife for your three kids whom you would become 'visiting' dad. There may be strategies whereby you could avoid a financial nightmare in the future. STOP being so passive about all of this, and start looking out for yourself and your kids. AND your future! Should you get tested for STD's? Of course! AND so should your wife......but you really can't go 'there' yet until you've got INDISPUTABLE evidence. confront your spouse and argue with them. This CAN BE AVOIDED if you 'think smart' and gather the information you need BEFORE confrontation. It takes nerves of steel, but you've got a LOT riding on this. It sucks, but I've seen it before - the wife cheats, gets the kids, and the husband gets visitation and child support. THINK about that - how sucky is that - you're the faithful partner! Now get your big-boy pants on and determine a personal course of action. List your priorities, which should have at the top, to preserve the marriage. If that is not possible (depending on what you 'learn'), have a contingency plan. Which should at the TOP, have preserving yourself and your children. Now get going.
Michael86 Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 Might be difficult though to get her fired (her being a top-rank exec) and their agency wil be affected if they lose the account (him being a top exec too). Thanks again.-Ragazzo Why is your focus getting her fired? Worry about getting solid evidence of their affair. Even though you some valuable information from her co-workers, I hope they don't tip her off that you were asking questions. Keep going. A keylogger is a great idea. WWIU - interesting avatar.
whichwayisup Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 WWIU - interesting avatar. Thank you. And where your mind went (aka the use of shower massager) is correct... I agree with the others, contacting the MM's wife is something to do, expose the affair to stop it in it's tracks so it will be harder for them to keep it hidden. But, busting them to co-workers, and their bosses...Honestly, not too sure if it's worth it. Revenge? out of emotion and anger?? Not a good idea and it could be something you'll regret later...Think wisely.
Author Ragazzo Posted September 3, 2006 Author Posted September 3, 2006 To whichwayisup,- It's the ( a few of the) co-workers who think that since my wife and client-BF are seen together so often (and me knowing that their "close") that they thought I am into to open-relationships. I'm not. It's not really the issue of getting her fired but it's impossible for me to ask her not to deal with this person anymore without the business aspect of it getting affected. A friend also advised me to talk to a MC saying that-even if the MC session don't work, at least I can say that I've done everything to make the marriage work.
whichwayisup Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 Definately do marriage counselling. Give it time, you owe it to your kids... And I'm sorry I read your words the wrong way. Well, you could ask your wife to get another job! But, until SHE realizes wtf she's done, owns up to her mistakes, makes an honest effort to make things good again with you, to gain your trust back - Maybe also FEEL and UNDERSTAND the consquences of her actions, nothing will change. TELL the MM's wife what is going on. Let her know what evidence you have now. A thread I am suggest you reading is by DazednConfused. (I'll find you the link) His situation is abit like yours, but maybe what he went through will help you. Seems I offer up his thread to many people, but it does help so many.
Author Ragazzo Posted September 3, 2006 Author Posted September 3, 2006 Yep, I should talk to the wife. Of course thoughts run into my mind like what if she knows already ? or what if she doesn't care ? What if the news destroys her family? Somehow, I don't want to be the bearer of bad news to their family. But- you are all right. 'Gosh, this is more difficult han I thought.
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