LeeAnn26 Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Hi Guys! Yes, I agree, the definition of "cheating" is a personal one. I myself never had a problem with porn, find it erotic myself. I also own sex toys. The problem is if your SO prefers to look at porn alone, never with you (because they feel "uncomfortable") - and because you being there spoils their fantasy.. What began to get me about the porn was the secrecy. The money spent on it that literally took food out of my kids mouths. The time spent that could have been much more productive. I can tell you that porn is not "harmless" for everyone. My H becomes so obsessed with it, it has changed his values and views of women. He has learnt to lie and hide things like a pro. He has withdrawn from me emotionally (and yes, i know it is because of an underlying, larger problem with self esteem and stress management). And he has escalated his behaviour to contacting women online and on text dating services, and started meeting them in person... So, for all of you saying "there is nothing wrong with your man looking at porn" - perhaps not in all cases, but in a few, it really can be a problem. I wish i could still just say "men are just visual creatures", I really do...
lovelorcet Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 lovelorcet - If you have a problem with my views on porn, then sorry. But I find it pathetic that one girl isn't enough for you. If you can't just look at your girl naked or dressed and go *Wow i want her* without the need to run off and look at another girl naked, then well that is just sad. Excuse me!?! You asked for a normal guys option and I gave it to you. If you had read my post you would have seen that I also stated I am not really interested in porn and waste very little time with such things. I find it insulting that you imply that I am obsessed with porn and not fulfilled by my partner because I would say that it is every adults choice if they want to look at porn. I am sorry but watching some other girl having sex is not cheating. He is not respecting your wishes… but he also thinks it is cheating then it looks like you two were made for each other. If you had caught him twice with his piece in another girl would you even be here asking what to do? Oh wait that is cheating as well….
Citizen Erased Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Sorry. I was just getting upset because he wasn't reading what I was saying. If that is true then why would he say *I wouldn't do that. I consider that cheating.. blahblah. I wouldn't fantasize about any other woman."? I am sure there are some guys out there who aren't perverts, right? He fed you what ever BS he could to get you to shutup. It is what people do. He has lied to you about what his opinions are, he has looked at porn even though he knows you are dead-set against it and you are STILL with him? You informed him numerous times that you considered it cheating, he may have fed you a load of BS but he did in fact trick you into thinking he felt the same way. Dump him and find someone who will respect your views, your morals and what YOU find to be acceptable behaviour. Look out for yourself. I myself dont count it as cheating, my SO and I enjoy it together, but I would respect it if my SO was against it. Good Luck honey
Pink Amulet Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 OP- You are intitled to your own feelings on pornography but for godsake would you stop implying people who watch porn are "perverts" with "no morals".
Spiderman Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 OP- You are intitled to your own feelings on pornography but for godsake would you stop implying people who watch porn are "perverts" with "no morals". Here, here PA!
Spiderman Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Men are biologically programmed to respond to visual sexual stimulation - IMO You're chap looking at porn is hardly cheating! Women generally don't buy magazines/movies portraying naked men because sexual stimulus to a women is derived more from touch and thought. Seduction with women is mental, which is one reason many women find a man's interest in pornography for self-gratification to be disgusting. Women fantasize and create an entire scenario within their heads. Men look at a picture and concentrate solely on the action. True, the Bible does say that even to look at a woman, (or man if your female) sexually that is not your spouse is committing adultery. Unfortunately it is also instinct. The book of Matthew also suggests that you remove your eyes should they cause you to look lasciviously at any woman other than your wife. We'd be extinct as a species if we all followed this guidance. Take heed of LK's advice - research why men use porn, and how they feel about it, what they use it for, would provide you with a greater insight into why he's finding his promise hard to stick to. Wake up, smell the coffee & cut your man some slack.
Kinger25 Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Here Here Spiderman I think Darkshadows you need to open your eyes and look at the world as it is now. You mentioned earlier that people who watch porn are immoral. You seem to think that two people who are in love, and who enjoy experimenting with their sexual feelings are disgusting and wrong. Believe me you could not be farther from the truth. I have SUCH STRONG feelings about the marriage vows and I think people DO get married too quickly these days and for the wrong reasons. When I get married it will be for life and I would NEVER cheat on my partner to be. BUT I am sure that we would STILL watch porn together now and then, when WE feel like it. The thing is Darkshadows is that the more honest and open you are with your SO the more likely your relationship is to succeed. I must say that you do seem very narrowminded about this issue and I think you need to take some time out to yourself to look at the world and try and expand your own knowledge about what you WANT from a relationship. YES he did say to you that he thought looking at Porn was cheating and I respect your views about this but MY GOD there is a REASON why he does it and THAT it what you need to break through to. I think you should finish this relationship because it is obviously not making you happy, take some time out, learn about yourself and deal with your own insecurities and then find someone who is more like you. This one's NOT gonna work babe sorry
Gawdfatha Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Looking at porn is = to cheating? Are you serious!? I would have to say that if you feel so strongly about the porn issue, you should find yourself a different guy to be with. Of course you won't leave him because deep down where your denial can't get to there is a place in your mind that knows that 99% of men look at porn. So, you know that finding another guy who truly does not look at porn and is a half-way desirable person is slim to none. So, you will not leave him. But I really urge you to do this. That way, he can find himself a girlfriend that doesn't have a problem with porn and he would be much happier. You would actually be doing him a favor by leaving him. And you could go on your quest to find that 1% of men out there and finally be happy. Sorry to be a little crass, as I am not saying this to be mean. I am just saying this to be truthful. If you don't deal with it now, it will be an issue that both of you will have to deal with in the future. Your BF can't be happy when he has to hide a part of himself away from his significant other and you will always have a problem with the man your involved with looking at porn...let's face it. This is a divorce just waiting to happen. I would say for the sake of both of you, either change your mind about men looking at porn or end the relationship now. Coming to this conclusion will only be harder on both of you if you deal with it later as opposed to now.
norajane Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 You have options: - leave him because of this...he clearly won't stop since he hasn't yet - tell him you hate porn and think it's cheating, but you won't forbid him to look at it because he's an adult and you respect him enough to make his own decisions...that way he doesn't have to LIE to you and HIDE it, and it might make it seem less like enticing forbidden fruit - stick around and torture the both of you for as long as he puts up with it due to his guilt - watch it with him
rainfall Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Her boyfriend told her he feels looking at porn is cheating. Whether he truly feels this way or not he made her feel like he shared her values and would respect her wishes to not look at porn. The main problem I think is that he lied to her twice and will keep lying to her until she either learns to live with his porn use or leaves him. I personally don't like my boyfriend looking at porn but sadly the truth is most guys do look at porn. For the most part my boyfriend is a great guy so I usually try not to give him to hard a time on the porn issue.
Author DarkShadows Posted September 1, 2006 Author Posted September 1, 2006 Looking at porn is = to cheating? Are you serious!? I would have to say that if you feel so strongly about the porn issue, you should find yourself a different guy to be with. Of course you won't leave him because deep down where your denial can't get to there is a place in your mind that knows that 99% of men look at porn. So, you know that finding another guy who truly does not look at porn and is a half-way desirable person is slim to none. So, you will not leave him. But I really urge you to do this. That way, he can find himself a girlfriend that doesn't have a problem with porn and he would be much happier. You would actually be doing him a favor by leaving him. And you could go on your quest to find that 1% of men out there and finally be happy. Sorry to be a little crass, as I am not saying this to be mean. I am just saying this to be truthful. If you don't deal with it now, it will be an issue that both of you will have to deal with in the future. Your BF can't be happy when he has to hide a part of himself away from his significant other and you will always have a problem with the man your involved with looking at porn...let's face it. This is a divorce just waiting to happen. I would say for the sake of both of you, either change your mind about men looking at porn or end the relationship now. Coming to this conclusion will only be harder on both of you if you deal with it later as opposed to now. Wow you men are just ripping right into me, without even actually reading what I had said... Ok let me be a broken record here for just a second... Again, HE TOLD ME HE FOUND LOOKING AT PORN WHILE WITH A SIGNIFICANT OTHER IS CONSIDERED CHEATING. HE MADE THIS BOUNDARY WITH ME. HE STATED IT FIRST, I DIDN'T. I AGREED WITH HIM. HE SAID HE FOUND IT CHEATING AND WOULD NEVER DO THAT TO ME. HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND MEN WHO NEEDED PORN WHEN THEY HAVE GIRLFRIENDS. HE STATED THAT WHILE AT WORK WHEN WOMEN WOULD TALK ABOUT PORN OR GOING TO A STRIP CLUB, WHY THEY WOULD DO SUCH A THING IF THEY HAVE A GUY AT HOME. HE CONSIDERS ALL THIS CHEATING. HE TOLD ME THIS FIRST BEFORE I EVEN MENTIONED PORN! There I hope I made myself clear. Geez.
gemmab2020 Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 Whooooa... this is a longwinded one... I find it very interesting about your feelings on porn, but everyone is different! My ex didn't like the fact that I would have let out a girly burp after guzzling down a bottle of beer in teh comfort of the living room. He hated it!!!! I know it's not the same as porn but it ended up something which I had to promise not to continue to do. (If I did it in his presense, he with-held sex from me as punishment) so I used to try and promise that I wouldn't do it (amoungst other things he found irritating) but it doesn't work!!!! (I do have a pijnt and I am getting to it now!!!!) It is in your personality to feel the way you feel and no-one will be able to change that, but it is in your SO personality to feel the way he feels about porn, and he ahs obviously tried to please you by agreeing that it is being unfaithful and lying about looking at porn etc... but at the end of the day, you will not be able to change him as much as he will not be able to change you. That's life. You obviously aren't as well suited as you thought so my advice is to cut your loses and search for someone who shares similar morals to yourself. That's the only solution to this. Either that or just learn to live with he fact that he likes porn and you don;t!
skeletonindacloset Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 I understand why she would be frustrated. If they started out with a mutual understanding that porn was cheating and he was the one to start the conversation then yes he's wrong because that means he lied and keeps lying by continuing to do it. So it sounds like a trust issue more than a "eww, yucky porn" issue. There is the likelyhood that he called it cheating because maybe he thought that would be the perfect answer to a question that can be extremely tough to answer. Anyone who's ever actually gone to a store to buy porn can attest to the fact that it can be a nervewracking and embarrasing experience sometimes, so it's a pretty delicate issue for some. I understand it's a very romantic thought to only think of the one you love but it's completely impractical, morals or not. If this is going to be your stance, however, then this is something that you must stand by as well. And by that I mean you're not allowed to be attracted to any other men ever. If you think Brad Pitt is cute then you'd be breaking the rules, so that means you'd never be able to watch a movie with him in it because you'd be cheating on him. What my bottom line here is that people will always look at other people and they'll sometimes be attracted to those people for different reasons. I think believing that one should not be allowed to look is like saying you never want them to go to the bathroom again. It's something I believe that is a part of our regular day as people on this earth. I think maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to re evaluate this issue together because if you want to be the only thing that turns him on you're putting a ridiculous amount of pressure on yourself to be the most beautiful woman in the world and you'll never be able to eat junk food and gain an extra pound or live your life the way you want it because you'll be busy making sure you always look super hot. And that ain't livin.
Adora Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 Wow you men are just ripping right into me, without even actually reading what I had said... Ok let me be a broken record here for just a second... Again, HE TOLD ME HE FOUND LOOKING AT PORN WHILE WITH A SIGNIFICANT OTHER IS CONSIDERED CHEATING. HE MADE THIS BOUNDARY WITH ME. HE STATED IT FIRST, I DIDN'T. I AGREED WITH HIM. HE SAID HE FOUND IT CHEATING AND WOULD NEVER DO THAT TO ME. HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND MEN WHO NEEDED PORN WHEN THEY HAVE GIRLFRIENDS. HE STATED THAT WHILE AT WORK WHEN WOMEN WOULD TALK ABOUT PORN OR GOING TO A STRIP CLUB, WHY THEY WOULD DO SUCH A THING IF THEY HAVE A GUY AT HOME. HE CONSIDERS ALL THIS CHEATING. HE TOLD ME THIS FIRST BEFORE I EVEN MENTIONED PORN! There I hope I made myself clear. Geez. Is it possible that he never actually ventured into the actual 'viewing' of porn before you two got together; was he not interested in it before? Reason I ask - has he said that porn is cheating BEFORE he started watching it? Maybe he did believe that, but now that he's actually enjoying it, realizes himself that 'this isn't tooo bad! That looks kinda wicked hot...', etc? His impression of it may have changed once he explored it personally.
Kathleen2260 Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 I think the problem here is people are thinking that the OP's beliefs on porn are too strict and some aren't looking at the real issue. So let's substitute sex for porn in your situation. Maybe more can relate to that. If the OPs boyfriend brought up that he thought having sex with someone other than your SO is cheating when your in a relationship and the OP agreed with him and then she found out that her boyfriend had sex with another when she was at the hospital (think thats where you were) and then he hid it from her, lied to her about it when she questioned him, but kept telling her that his beliefs are that sex with another person is wrong AND THAT IF SHE DID IT HE WOULD LEAVE HER. Because basically this is what the boyfriend is telling her! That he believes that it is WRONG for her to look at porn if she is dating him. But then he goes and does the same thing he told her he believes is wrong. So he either lied about his feelings on porn, told her what he thought she wanted to hear (but he was the one to bring up the subject FIRST) or he changed his mind and got interested in porn while in a relationship with OP. Either way he is NOT being honest with her and that is not healthy for a realationship. The boyfriend misrepresented himself and his feelings and continues to be dishonest and lie which I believe is the part that the OP is most upset about and feels betrayed. She has every right to feel this way. Just because men are visual and like to watch other women naked doesn't mean that this isn't a form of cheating to some people. While I personally might not consider this cheating, I wouldn't want my SO replacing time and sexual energy that should be spent with me, on watching porn.
Author DarkShadows Posted September 1, 2006 Author Posted September 1, 2006 Kathleen - Omg thank you! I think you are about the only person who has actually read past the *He cheated on me by looking at porn* part. Thank you! I hope everyone reads what you said. I'm sitting here getting bashed because everyone thinks I find porn wrong, without actually reading what I am stating, but that isn't the case. I can care less if everyone looks at it, but if I come to a mutual agreement with my partner, whom I love dearly, then yes I do believe it is wrong. Period. Especially if he stated it first! If I had stated it first and then he just agreed because he wanted me to feel special, then ok that is a little different, but that still doesn't make it right. Yet, that is NOT the case here!
Kinger25 Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 Darkshadows - You came on here asking people's opinion about your situation, but rather than LISTEN to what people are saying, you are now assasinating everybody's character YES I AGREE WITH YOU - If he said that he thinks looking at porn whilst being with you is cheating then he shouldn't be doing it. Why dont you say to him "you told me looking at porn is cheating but you're still doing it, explain yourself" and see what he says. I think he is a normal man trying to lead a normal life. If you lowered your boundaries regarding porn a little bit and allowed him to look at it without questioning him or having a go at him all the time you may find that he will ease it down a bit. The more you restrict the more he will rebel. Its human nature. In any case I am SURE that at some point in your relationship, you will do something that he absoluely DETESTS and it may then be HIS turn to accept whatever it is that you are doing a loosen his boundaries for you. If you dont cut him some slack now you may regret it in the future when you want the favout returned. Relationships are about COMPROMISE. You dont seem to be adult enough to deal with a serious relationship yet. Even if he WAS the 1st one to say that porn is cheating, you are not secure or mature enough to deal with this in a rational manner. You do not seem quite ready yet to deal with the strong emotions that are released when two people are in love. You must learn to give a little and take a little in a relationship. BOTTOM LINE: Either work through this in a rational way. Accept what he is and move on. Because at the end of the day if you dont accept him for who he is then you dont really love him anyway. You really have to love him unconditionally. Work through the things that you are not happy with and grow and learn TOGETHER to continue your relationship. You need to build the foundations with eachother and deal with these obsticles that are put in your way to become a strong couple. OTHERWISE YOU REALLY NEED TO FINISH THE RELATIONSHIP. Explain to him that you have tried but that you cannot accept the fact that he looks at porn and walk away. Work on your own issues and THEN go into another relationship. You may not want to hear some of this but asked for peoples opinion. Good Luck
Author DarkShadows Posted September 1, 2006 Author Posted September 1, 2006 Ok, I am not 'assasinating everybody's character.' I am getting frustrated because nobody is reading what I am saying. Or at least not comprehending what I am trying to get at here. He broke my trust, that is the issue. Not that porn is bad. If people would try to understand this and not say things like *Omg porn is cheating are you flipping kidding?!?!? I've heard it all* kind of bs, then it would make this so much easier. You look at porn, good for you! You don't think it is cheating, great! I don't care. That isn't the issue.. Trust is. Only trust.
CrushedOrgans Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 Women fantasize and create an entire scenario within their heads. Men look at a picture and concentrate solely on the action. i look at some porn. i watch the action; i don't create anything in my head. it was also my impression that men would fantasize about these pornsome women, like watching her and pretending he was ***king her while jerking off. is this incorrect? guess we can't paint anyone with the same brush. many women don't fantasize, we're not all swoony, wishy-washy, sappy girlie girls who just need a little tender touch. but i don't think guys all just check out the action, i think it goes a little further than that, if not a lot further. and a fantasy about the porn girl in his head would bother me more than him just jerking off to finding something visually appealing and arousing. also, the whole "men are visually stimulated" thing. well, great for them. they get to visually stimulate themselves whenever they want because of this. but it is said a woman is stimulated by touch and all that crap. so...so that would mean that women should be allowed to be touched in way she enjoys by men other than her husband? not sex, but i guess she would be allowed to masturbate while a dude caressed her elbow or the inside of her kneecap.
norajane Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 Ok, I am not 'assasinating everybody's character.' I am getting frustrated because nobody is reading what I am saying. Or at least not comprehending what I am trying to get at here. He broke my trust, that is the issue. Not that porn is bad. If people would try to understand this and not say things like *Omg porn is cheating are you flipping kidding?!?!? I've heard it all* kind of bs, then it would make this so much easier. You look at porn, good for you! You don't think it is cheating, great! I don't care. That isn't the issue.. Trust is. Only trust. Ok. He said, at one time, that he thought looking at porn was cheating and you agreed. However, since then, he keeps looking at porn. You can keep freaking out about the broken trust and getting upset because he had said it was cheating to look at porn, so in his mind and yours, he's cheating. Or, you can take a deep breath and together, calmly reconsider the issue. Perhaps you can both discuss it again and come to a new agreement where you both accept that viewing porn isn't actually cheating, even though it might not be something you're in favor of. Perhaps you can agree to a new definition of what is and isn't cheating, what is and isn't acceptable. People's views on things are actually fluid - they don't necessarily stay the same forever and ever. If your goal is to stay in this relationship and forge a stronger bond with your bf, you can both revisit the issue and change the parameters rather than continuing to operate under the previous model which is just frustrating and upsetting you both. If you yourself can find it within you to open up your boundaries a little to accept that, in your relationship together, porn isn't equivalent to cheating in the same way that having sex with someone else would be, that could be enough to diffuse the situation.
LittleLady Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 The book of Matthew also suggests that you remove your eyes should they cause you to look lasciviously at any woman other than your wife. We'd be extinct as a species if we all followed this guidance. So you are admitting that ultimately the man ends up having an affair, in other words. Reproducing with your wife alone does not make a species extinct either. There may be less people in the world, but not extinct.
LittleLady Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 Wow you men are just ripping right into me, without even actually reading what I had said... Ok let me be a broken record here for just a second... Again, HE TOLD ME HE FOUND LOOKING AT PORN WHILE WITH A SIGNIFICANT OTHER IS CONSIDERED CHEATING. HE MADE THIS BOUNDARY WITH ME. HE STATED IT FIRST, I DIDN'T. I AGREED WITH HIM. HE SAID HE FOUND IT CHEATING AND WOULD NEVER DO THAT TO ME. HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND MEN WHO NEEDED PORN WHEN THEY HAVE GIRLFRIENDS. HE STATED THAT WHILE AT WORK WHEN WOMEN WOULD TALK ABOUT PORN OR GOING TO A STRIP CLUB, WHY THEY WOULD DO SUCH A THING IF THEY HAVE A GUY AT HOME. HE CONSIDERS ALL THIS CHEATING. HE TOLD ME THIS FIRST BEFORE I EVEN MENTIONED PORN! There I hope I made myself clear. Geez. I don't think you quite understand your husband's stance! He obviously has a double-standard! He probably DOES find it infuriating that HIS woman would look at other men etc! But with him, I guess he doesn't see it as that big of a deal. He is a hypocrite. Start watching porn yourself and enjoy it! Maybe he will get jealous and cut down himself.
Spiderman Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 So you are admitting that ultimately the man ends up having an affair, in other words. Reproducing with your wife alone does not make a species extinct either. There may be less people in the world, but not extinct. To look at another woman lasciviously does not translate to me admitting all men will inevitably have an affair?! True, the Bible does say that even to look at a woman, (or man if your female) sexually that is not your spouse is committing adultery. Unfortunately it is also instinct. There is a double standard here men and a woman's holier than thou attitude can be quickly smashed. Women have their own form of Playboy and use it right in front of us. It's not as visible or as easily attacked. Women use romance books. The written descriptions buried in these are of overt sexual acts and quite explicit. If she tries to hide behind piety, the Bible contains some of the sexiest passages on record. I'm also led to believe Women also use songs. Women use mental masturbation to consume porn, mentally and carefully hidden in the pages of romance. Women have virtual affairs. Men have virtual quickies. Men look at a picture to fantasize; women do so within their minds guided by the written word.
Author DarkShadows Posted September 5, 2006 Author Posted September 5, 2006 To look at another woman lasciviously does not translate to me admitting all men will inevitably have an affair?! True, the Bible does say that even to look at a woman, (or man if your female) sexually that is not your spouse is committing adultery. Unfortunately it is also instinct. There is a double standard here men and a woman's holier than thou attitude can be quickly smashed. Women have their own form of Playboy and use it right in front of us. It's not as visible or as easily attacked. Women use romance books. The written descriptions buried in these are of overt sexual acts and quite explicit. If she tries to hide behind piety, the Bible contains some of the sexiest passages on record. I'm also led to believe Women also use songs. Women use mental masturbation to consume porn, mentally and carefully hidden in the pages of romance. Women have virtual affairs. Men have virtual quickies. Men look at a picture to fantasize; women do so within their minds guided by the written word. That is true. But the thing is some women, for example myself, only fantasize about the man they are with. About the where and how I want his hands to touch me, etc. I never make up some picture of some different guy in my mind. I do not read romance novels, as I see those are a bore and extremely retarded. I'm not a girly girl. Men stare at other naked girls... Women stare at their man... (not all women do this, just speaking about myself.) If a mans girlfriend and some other broad was standing in front of him naked, he would quickly look at the other girl first and maybe not even look at his own girlfriend. That is what is sad. (Not speaking about all men) Men seem, in my opinion, never satisfied with the one they are with. They always want somethiing that looks better even if his own girlfriend treats him like he was a king... he would still go off searching for a better looking gal to get off too. That is what I find amazing, in a bad way, about men. People should learn to cherish the person they are with if they are great to them. Or everyone will end up with a whore or a cheater who will treat them like garbage day in and day out. That is my two cents.
Spiderman Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 I'd say men are more competitive, more promiscuous, and less nurturing than women—since their hormones, brains, and evolutionary histories are fundamentally different.
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