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Telltale Signs: How can I get him to tell the truth?


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Posted

My husband and I have been married for 6 years, together for 11. He's a wonderful man in many, many ways and we have three young children. Since having kids, though, our marriage has become more like a roommate relationship -- though we have made great strides in the last few months toward reconnecting as a couple and feeling excited about the future together. Then, this week, the sky fell.

 

I discovered receipts totaling $2000 for one night at a "gentlemen's club" -- which is basically a sorry euphemism for a strip club. Lap dances were detailed on the receipt.

 

Aside from the fact that I have no idea how you spend that amt of money on LAP dances-only in a single night (and have a hard time believing it's possible), there's other stuff going on to .... I knew he'd been accessing porn online for a while. But it seemed like an intermittent, harmless thing, so I didn't worry that he was watching porn videos or accessing kinky pictures online. A lot of people do from time to time. After the lap dance episode, however, I got curious and started mining his computer for information.

 

I discovered five aliases he uses on instant messaging and adult dating sites such as adultfriendfinder, alt.com, hi5, and others (note on one alias, he has included a PHOTO of his torso taken while sitting on OUR living room couch). He has chatted repeatedly with women in our city and elsewhere. I have no idea what was said, unfortunately.

 

I couldn't gain access to all of his email accounts, but I did gain access to one through some password guesswork. What a bombshell. Every month since December of 05, on almost every business trip he has gone on (two of which took place two weeks before and two weeks after I GAVE BIRTH TO HIS CHILD), he has sent email to Internet call girls, asking them whether they will be available to keep him company when he comes to town. He sent three - five emails per trip, and I know that at least one of these escorts responded and said yes (he had deleted emails in his In box, so I only had records of some of the emails he sent), then gave him her #. So I compared that to the cell phone bill and there are calls on the evenings he had inquired about their company to "blocked #s" on it.

 

I confronted him about all this. He admitted to all of the above -- but says that at NO POINT over the years did he actually act physially on any of it. It was purely fantasy, he said, during a time in our marriage when we were completely disconnected as a couple. And yes, he did think -- in fantasy world -- about using the escort service, but when it came down to it, he never did.

 

I know that he loves me. I know that he feels absolutely awful about all of this. And I know he wants this marriage to work. I also feel the same way about him. He is ADAMANT, though, about denying he did anything, but pure logic tells me I'd be a complete and utter IDIOT to believe that.

 

At this point, I need to know ...

 

* What's the possible likelihood that he didn't cheat physically, in everyone's opinion? What's the likelihood that he did?

* HOW can I get him to admit the truth?

* What would you think, presented with this evidence?

* What should I do? I am driving myself crazy not knowing and not believing him for certain -- can't eat, sleep work or think ....

 

Any advice or insight would be so very much appreciated. Thanks for listening.

Posted

sierra_wind2000:

I am afraid I have become rather cynical, especially about trust.

Firstly, I really believe one should trust one's intuition. It has often been all I had to go on, but there was always something behind it (unfortunately). And yes, after being lied to and deceived so much and so often, does your husband really believe that you will be able to "go on his word?"

 

Secondly, my H has a problem (can call it a sexual/fantasy addiction) and though he swears he loves me, and I do believe he does, he cannot seem to stop himself from doing things he knows would be hurtful to me.

If your husband has a similar problem, the fantasy that is "doing" it for him now may become less potent, and he may move on to physical encounters (if he hasnt already) I suggest that, if you guys want to stay married, he needs to get help as soon as possilbe.

 

Thirdly (and sadly) i have learnt (I know i may be generalizing here and there may be exceptions) - but cheating partners often only feel guilty when, and about that which they are caught out on.

If you dont find out, they seem to think it is not a problem?

 

I am still battling to get my H to open up and really be truthful, but we are working on it, he has admitted he has a problem, and it does seem there is hope, though it will be a long road.

  • Author
Posted

Well, he came back from his trip last night and we had a long talk. He admitted to meeting with a local woman he had been chatting with online a few years ago for a drink at a bar, but said he wasn't attracted to her. He also admitted to actually meeting with an escort while on a business trip, said that fondling and the like took place, but that when she took her pants off, she had discoloration of some kind on her A** that turned him off and it ended there. While in college -- before we even met -- he also admitted to having sex with a call girl.

 

I had the number for the girl he met for drinks, so I called her cell phone this morning and asked her to be honest with me about what happened. I did it in a nice way -- not attacking her, but just telling her how badly I needed to know the truth. Her version of events? "We met at a bar two years ago, had drinks, then went to the car to talk and he had a condom and we F***ED.

 

So now I know more of the truth. Infidelity occurred. He's in a business meeting right now, but I left him a message telling him that I know. Am now in the process of packing my stuff and going to a Super 8 for a few nights. I don't know what else to do. I'm totally destroyed. Feeling completely alone and devastated and have no one to talk to. I don't even know who I am or what my life is. And the worst part is I can't even feel anything toward my three little children right now. I'm not concerned about leaving them because I can't feel anything. Anything. And I don't know what to do.

Posted

I am so sorry, I wish there was something I could say to take away the hurt you're feeling right now.

 

I think it is best you leave for a while, maybe even file for a legal separation. I think he needs to know that you WILL leave him.

 

My husband has been the same way, he absolutely will not tell the truth about things unless I catch him. I too have this feeling in my gut that he has had an affair, but I have nothing that can lead me to evidence.

 

It sounds like your husband has a sexual addiction. If you take him back, you should make it a condition he seek counseling. I would also make no more business trips (even if that means he needs to find another job), no using the internet if you're not near, and total accountability a condition as well.

 

It may not seem this way now, but I am sure he does love you. Sexual addictions are usually due to deep emotional issues. He really needs the counseling to work past this.

Posted
What's the possible likelihood that he didn't cheat physically, in everyone's opinion? What's the likelihood that he did?

It's possible. It's even possible that this other woman is lying; women lie too, all the time, especially if she's pissed off at him for whatever reason or wants to make his life miserable. It's probably a power trip for her. Given the evidence, though, I think it's more possible that he actually did.

HOW can I get him to admit the truth?

You can't. If he's lying - and I honestly can't say one way or the other - he knows that it's likely you'll leave him, so for him there's no downside to lying about it. If he tells the truth, his marriage will collapse, and he doesn't want that.

What would you think, presented with this evidence?

What anyone else thinks is entirely irrelevant. It's your marriage, your husband, your kids, your concerns. Outside influences one way or the other on this will just muddy the waters further.

What should I do? I am driving myself crazy not knowing and not believing him for certain -- can't eat, sleep work or think ....

Focus on the potential outcomes.

  • If he's lying and did physically cheat, what would happen? How would your relationship change?
  • If he isn't lying and remained true, what would happen? How would your relationship change?
  • Regardless of the outcome of either of these questions, what do you want to happen? Stay with him and forgive? Leave? Separate for a short time? Go to counselling, either individually or as a couple?

Start working on answering those questions first. That will give you a grounding about what to do, and once you've got that foundation, work your plan.

Posted

I wish there was a brick you could hit the WS with that says: "our marriage will NOT survive if I do NOT feel like you are being truthful with me."

 

They just don't 'get' that their continued lies create bigger problems. Sometimes they never give you the real, honest, truthful story.

 

You'll know the difference.

Posted
I think it is best you leave for a while, maybe even file for a legal separation. I think he needs to know that you WILL leave him.

 

He needs to "see" and "feel" the consquences of his actions. Until that happens he is going to keep on doing what he's doing which is cheating on you, having EA's and being selfish.

 

Get some counselling for yourself, have support. Talk to your family and close friends, don't go through this alone.

 

He is going to be upset and pissed off at you, but don't cave. MAKE him understand what he did was serious enough to make you want to end the marriage. THEN, insist that he gets one on one counselling for himself and he must go to marriage counselling with you. If you love him and want to work through this, don't give up! But, still go through the motions of separation.

 

Keep posting and I am sorry for your pain.

Posted

He is meeting these woman and having sex with them. This is exactly what I do. My wife is clueless. He is probably only meeting 1 woman per trip. Standard escort patron (hobbyist) procedure is to send out multiple emails and hope one of them works out. I'm sorry. You need to end the marriage and move on.

Posted

I don't understand why the OP is the one leaving the home? :confused:

 

If it were me, I'd negotiate for the WH (wayward husband) to leave. If he refused, I'd lawyer up and see if I couldn't get a judgement from the court to force him out.

 

This guy has an entire alter-ego. :eek:

It's nearly IMPOSSIBLE at this point to believe he's not behaving indiscriminately outside the marriage, engaging in sexual behaviors with other people.

 

You need to get tested for STDs, Sierra. Get an appointment with your PCP or GYN. You needn't go into details with the staff when you schedule, and you needn't be embarrassed in having a frank talk with the doctor. S/he's heard it all before.

 

Regardless of whatever his story is on actual sexual contact, this guy doesn't understand the meaning of a committed intimate relationship. The energy that he's put into chasing down random women for sexual gratification is ALL stolen from your plate, Sierra. All the time he's put into this "hobby" could have been invested in the marriage instead.

 

You never did have to wait for the 'smoking gun' here. He's been cheating you all along, even before you knew about the sexual contact.

 

Make sure you're documenting all your evidence and keeping it in a safe place. And do see an attorney as soon as possible.

 

I doubt this guy will change without therapy, and make no mistake.... he's got to CHOOSE it for himself. If he only agrees to counseling in an effort to smoothe your ruffled feathers, he will doubtless get nothing out of it. On the other hand, when his "hobby" becomes inconvenient to him personally, perhaps THEN he will seek real help.

 

So.... if someone's going to be living in the Super 8, why not let it be him? ;)

Posted

I agree completely with ladyjane. Do not take this man back! He has totally betrayed you, dishonored you, and, simply, cares even less about you. This has nothing to do with a sexual addiction. Why is it that women would rather justify anothers' (mens') actions and continue to diminish themselves by saying there must be some logical explanation for mistreating me?

 

He did because he felt like it- nothing more, nothing less.

As for you, seek solice and help. Concentrate on you. The children should not be involved in any of this. They must remain immune to it all. We as adults sometimes forget that children grow up and form their lives and opinions on the world around them and we don't need to involve them in our screwed up lives.

  • Author
Posted

Thanks to everyone for taking time to respond. I appreciate your support more than you can know. I logged on today hoping to see words of encouragement telling me that I could put my marriage back together and find the posts about leaving him and the fact that he doesn't love me so hard to take. Perhaps I'm in denial. But tell me what you think.

 

I came home. We talked and talked. And I cried for days. I love him. I want him in my life. I can't imagine not having him be a part of my daytoday existence. And aside from just wanting him -- and that is the primary driver -- I don't want infidelity to beat me, to make me lose a husband, to make my children lose a father, or to sit on the other side of the auditorium at all of their big life events knowing that a man I loved more than anything is totally lost to me. That, even more than the incredible pain I would go through trying to heal from the infidelity and build our marriage and our relationship back up and make it strong, is a fate even more horrible and terrifying. Does that make sense?

 

He is sorry, I know. He wants to work on this marriage, I know. We are going to counseling. He is accepting responsibility. And he is telling me that he will do whatever it takes -- and I do believe his intentions -- to be a good husband to me and to build the life together that we have always wanted.

 

So today, the hard part, is that I do think he loves me. I do think he wants me. BUT, despite thinking that one minute, the next I'm so plagued by fear that he doesn't really love me, you know? Because how could this happen if he did? And does he only think that "I'll do (e.g., she's not so bad, maybe we can make it work and maybe my heart will change and I will love her but I can't tell her that I don't right now because she's in too much pain -- and maybe I never will, I'll just ride things out and see what I want to do later)." And the reason he wants to be with me is more related to what others will think, how he hates the thought of divorce, how he doesn't want to do that to the kids, how he doesn't want to live with the guilt of ruining our marriage, and how he does care for me and my well-being, but doesn't really love me, but it's a sacrifice I must make.

 

I just feel so worthless right now, so undeserving of love, like I'm a person whose husband can't even love her, whose father rejected her, who is just a piece of SH@T not worth the space I occupy -- and how could anyone love me.

 

I'm sorry this is so whiney and self-indulgent. I just need to know -- it is possible that he loves me and wants to change and do everything to be with ME, isn't it? That's what I am hearing. But so many take a cynical view of things, that it destroys my hope. My hope that I can have what I want in the end. That this will be the wakeup call that allows us to move forward as a couple and create a fantastic, loving life together.

 

Thanks again for listening.

Posted

That has to be so hard, and Im sure you love him, and im sure he loves you. It sounds more like an addiction of some kind... men cheat yes, but.. the porn, strip clubs, call girls... sounds more like some kind of sexual addiction. Maybe he needs counseling? I wouldn't take him back, but do stay in contact with him, see if he feels he needs help? Im not a doctor, or a psychiatrist, but I think if he wanted to cheat like any normal man would, it wouldnt involve so much... I guess, paid erotica? Sorry if it doesn't make too much sense. He betrayed you, and you can't let him walk all over you by staying with him, but since you love him, you can still try to help him.

Posted

I agree that he's got a problem. A serious one.

 

This is not one thing to forgive in a long relationship- that's much different. This guy appears to be a serial cheater- perhaps even a sex addict.

 

He needs some real help if you're ever going to be able to trust him again.

Posted
I just feel so worthless right now, so undeserving of love, like I'm a person whose husband can't even love her....

 

First things first.... understand that his is NOT about you. It's about your husband. Of course you made mistakes in the marriage, but even if you had been a PERFECT wife... this would still have happened.

 

We're not professionals here at LS. We're just regular folks sharing stories, experiences, and opinions. What you need now is a PROFESSIONAL opinion from a qualified psychologist. ;)

 

That doesn't mean you stop posting, btw. This is a great place to vent and share. It's a great place to get another perspective too. But IMHO, you need some BIG help if you're going to save your marriage.

 

Personally, I'm more inclined to believe the call-girl you talked to than to believe your husband. She hasn't got any real reason to lie to you. He does.

 

Cheaters lie. That's what they do. And you can't believe everything your husband is telling you right now even though he might seem sincere. I bet he seemed sincere when he went on those business trips too, didn't he? :(

One of the things that a BS (betrayed spouse) is most commonly flabbergasted at.... is the ease with which the lies were told. It makes you feel like you don't even KNOW who your spouse really is. :(

 

So yeah...it's probable that he's lied to you again. Lying can be part of a bigger dysfunction though. And there's a myriad of things that could be going on with your husband. For a couple of examples, it could psychological ailment like Narcisism which would make it easy for him to rationalize his behavior because he would feel ENTITLED. Or, as MzPixie has suggested... it could be a Sexual Addiction.

 

Just those two examples out of a HUGE bunch of different possibilities should tell you that you need HELP if you're going to make the marriage work. Are you equipped to diagnose and TREAT either of those two examples on your own? :confused:

 

If.... say, he's a sex addict. He's carrying his 'drug of choice' around with him ALL THE TIME. Similar to a gambling addiction, the RUSH comes from the 'feel good' chemicals of the brain when he engages in the behavior. It's not as simple as just promising to quit. He would need to be 'rehabilitated' to normal parameters.

 

My best advice to you is that if he's willing to go to counseling, GREAT. But please don't buy into the idea that you're not being placated here. He's telling you what you want to hear. I don't doubt that he means it, but there's 'The Truth', and then there's 'The Truth of the Moment'.

 

You're going to have to set some REALLY strict boundaries on what's acceptable for you and your kids. And you're going to have to ENFORCE THOSE BOUNDARIES. Otherwise, this incident becomes just one in a string of similar incidents where you only succeeded in enabling a destructive behavior.

 

Yes... there is hope. :bunny:

And while it's not an easy path, the rewards can be great. But you're going to have to REALLY keep your peepers open and take charge of your life in order to see it through.

Posted

He's been having sex with other women for a long time and will continue to do so until he gets intensive treatment. He has been doing this because you have allowed him to do it and not walked away. If you stay, or even if you two get counseling together it will just continue.

 

You really need to get separated and find a good therapist for YOU. Your priority is to take care of you so you can continue to be a good mom. What happens to him and your marriage is NOT the most important thing here, it's taking care of you and your kids.

 

I know those other thoughts about the marriage ending and sitting across the auditorium from him are sad, but it's going to happen that way if you stay. He will continue to **** other women. You'll continue to find evidence, you'll get worse and worse and it will finally blow up again. Your kids will feel the pain and tension the whole time and will be terribly hurt by the long term effects of you tolerating his behaviour. You'll eventually end up broken up but it will come with a lot more damage if you stay there than if you leave now.

 

Get separated, take care of your feelings and don't go back with him unless he gets serious treatment on his own. These guys don't stop, believe me. I've been an escort and I have heard my regulars talk about their lives. It NEVER ends well. The wives always get screwed and very hurt. These guys are truly addicts and they have a lack of feeling about the consequenses and their wives' feelings but they can lie very convincingly to the wife. And, by the way a customer never came to me and couldn't follow through because he felt bad. He was lying to you.

Posted

I am going to elaborate on an earlier post to this thread. INTUITION is not an illusion, and most of the time it's correct and this case is just added proof of that. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then that's what it is. I get tired of people suggesting that peoples intuition is paranoia, although I'm sure that paranoia does happen, it's not often enought to factor in.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you found this out, but you already knew it.

 

Trust your intuition, it's trying to tell you something ain't right.

 

Good luck

 

:)

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
My husband and I have been married for 6 years, together for 11. He's a wonderful man in many, many ways and we have three young children. Since having kids, though, our marriage has become more like a roommate relationship -- though we have made great strides in the last few months toward reconnecting as a couple and feeling excited about the future together. Then, this week, the sky fell.

 

I discovered receipts totaling $2000 for one night at a "gentlemen's club" -- which is basically a sorry euphemism for a strip club. Lap dances were detailed on the receipt.

 

Aside from the fact that I have no idea how you spend that amt of money on LAP dances-only in a single night (and have a hard time believing it's possible), there's other stuff going on to .... I knew he'd been accessing porn online for a while. But it seemed like an intermittent, harmless thing, so I didn't worry that he was watching porn videos or accessing kinky pictures online. A lot of people do from time to time. After the lap dance episode, however, I got curious and started mining his computer for information.

 

I discovered five aliases he uses on instant messaging and adult dating sites such as adultfriendfinder, alt.com, hi5, and others (note on one alias, he has included a PHOTO of his torso taken while sitting on OUR living room couch). He has chatted repeatedly with women in our city and elsewhere. I have no idea what was said, unfortunately.

 

I couldn't gain access to all of his email accounts, but I did gain access to one through some password guesswork. What a bombshell. Every month since December of 05, on almost every business trip he has gone on (two of which took place two weeks before and two weeks after I GAVE BIRTH TO HIS CHILD), he has sent email to Internet call girls, asking them whether they will be available to keep him company when he comes to town. He sent three - five emails per trip, and I know that at least one of these escorts responded and said yes (he had deleted emails in his In box, so I only had records of some of the emails he sent), then gave him her #. So I compared that to the cell phone bill and there are calls on the evenings he had inquired about their company to "blocked #s" on it.

 

I confronted him about all this. He admitted to all of the above -- but says that at NO POINT over the years did he actually act physially on any of it. It was purely fantasy, he said, during a time in our marriage when we were completely disconnected as a couple. And yes, he did think -- in fantasy world -- about using the escort service, but when it came down to it, he never did.

 

I know that he loves me. I know that he feels absolutely awful about all of this. And I know he wants this marriage to work. I also feel the same way about him. He is ADAMANT, though, about denying he did anything, but pure logic tells me I'd be a complete and utter IDIOT to believe that.

 

At this point, I need to know ...

 

* What's the possible likelihood that he didn't cheat physically, in everyone's opinion? What's the likelihood that he did?

* HOW can I get him to admit the truth?

* What would you think, presented with this evidence?

* What should I do? I am driving myself crazy not knowing and not believing him for certain -- can't eat, sleep work or think ....

 

Any advice or insight would be so very much appreciated. Thanks for listening.

 

I can totally relate to your story...First..unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that he did not cheat physically...My H told me the same thing over and over again after I found out about some e mails, im's and other computer activity involving OWs...I believed him b/c I wanted so badly to believe him. There are some M out there who just get there thrills/kicks out of the whole fantasy thing and that is the extent of it, but this sort of activity is usually the precurser for the real thing. It can be very addictive..and the person almost always needs more of his "fix"...This means going to the next level...Re: getting him to tell you the truth...You can't..Men who are confronted with their cheating ways will almost always lie...You need to have proof in hand before confronting him, and depending on his personality/demeaner..it can be a precarious if not dangerous place to be for youself and your children...When backed into a corner...a place he has never been before, he might react differently then you have ever seen...Have some support and a plan so that you and your children feel safe...The sort of behaviour that he has exibiting sounds very addictive, and addicts are notoriously quick tempered and inconsistent in there behavior...

 

My husband started out at Gentlemen's clubs with lap dances too...That led to the internet and that led to the real thing...To this day, he will STILL try to justify his behavior..and I have much proof, including a letter from the main OW...It's part of the addiction, etc...They will lie about it until the cows come home...

 

I would do everything in your power to gain some control in your life. Set some money aside if possible for emergencies, have a bank account in your own name, do a background check...They are relatively inexpensive on the net..public records reveal more then you would think..Try really hard not to fly off of the handle or appear as if you are falling apart..I know how hard that is b/c I've been there, but if he thinks that you might just have a breakdown...he may go to even GREATER pains to hide things from you and lie...Lastly...get some legal advice. You don't have to pay an attorney a huge retainer to get advice...Also, the YWCA and other legal sources...offer classes, advice, free of charge...

 

Protect yourself, believe in yourself and do what you are doing now...Reach out to anyone/anywhere you can trust...The more informed you are the better...Don't let him keep you in the dark...You have many rights and you are stronger then you think...

 

Take care...hope this helps...

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