Future friendship appreciated?

August 22, 2006

OK, here is a question for you wise ones out there: Can an ex (who dumped you) truly appreciate you as a friend in the future?

I've been pondering this question because I'm a very proud person, and since my ex broke up with me I've had no contact with him (a couple of months now) because it's the best way for me to 1) heal and 2) regain control over a situation over which I've had none. He's abided by my wishes and has not contacted me since then, and while that's hurt like hell, I guess I'm also thankful that he hasn't made this painful situation for me even more painful by trying to reach me.

I'm 90% certain that we could never move from our relationship to friendship; but it is also no secret that that has been a unilateral decision from my part. I *think* (though of course I can't be sure) that he would welcome the possibility of being my friend, but I have to wonder if he would be able to appreciate me as a friend in such an instance.

I mean, once we pass such a personal judgment over someone - "you are not the one for me" - can you ever really, truly appreciate that person whom you "passed over" as a friend? Logic would tell me yes, because a romantic relationship is different from a friendship - but at the same time, I think about the fact that in a romantic relationship you've gotten to know someone so deeply, and that that has to have some bearing on how you view them as friends. So is it possible? That someone who said "you're not for me" could ever truly appreciate you as just a friend?

August 22, 2006

There are so many variables in a relationship that it's pretty much impossible to give a generalized answer.

I can tell you, though, that my first wife and I have a great friendship. We get together on occasion, know each other's family well, and enjoy each other's company a great deal. There's no sex and that's a bummer, but given where we were when we first split up (which was her idea, not mine) I'm thankful to still be in her circle of friends.

With some other exes, though, I'm happy NOT to be involved with them in any way.

August 22, 2006

OK, here is a question for you wise ones out there: Can an ex (who dumped you) truly appreciate you as a friend in the future?

I've been pondering this question because I'm a very proud person, and since my ex broke up with me I've had no contact with him (a couple of months now) because it's the best way for me to 1) heal and 2) regain control over a situation over which I've had none. He's abided by my wishes and has not contacted me since then, and while that's hurt like hell, I guess I'm also thankful that he hasn't made this painful situation for me even more painful by trying to reach me.

I'm 90% certain that we could never move from our relationship to friendship; but it is also no secret that that has been a unilateral decision from my part. I *think* (though of course I can't be sure) that he would welcome the possibility of being my friend, but I have to wonder if he would be able to appreciate me as a friend in such an instance.

I mean, once we pass such a personal judgment over someone - "you are not the one for me" - can you ever really, truly appreciate that person whom you "passed over" as a friend? Logic would tell me yes, because a romantic relationship is different from a friendship - but at the same time, I think about the fact that in a romantic relationship you've gotten to know someone so deeply, and that that has to have some bearing on how you view them as friends. So is it possible? That someone who said "you're not for me" could ever truly appreciate you as just a friend?

I think it's possible.

Some people have broken up and remain on good terms as friends. They are wise enough to see that they don't go well together in a relationship, but better off as friends. There will always be some love left over, not in the romantic sense, but I'm sure it furthers the bond that remains between the 'friends'. It depends on people, I think.

August 22, 2006

I'm thinking that it also might be easier when the break up is mutual. There is an ex of mine (whom I almost married) that I'm still very good friends with; but I think it makes a HUGE difference that the break up was completely mutual.

With my current ex. I don't know. First, he left me; so I think there's an issue of pride that I need to address. I don't want to be SO proud that I'm throwing away a perfectly good potential friend; but I also don't want to stay around if I'm just gonna be a friend he doesn't appreciate. It's so hard to be able to figure out one's value in another person's life.

August 22, 2006

I'm thinking that it also might be easier when the break up is mutual. There is an ex of mine (whom I almost married) that I'm still very good friends with; but I think it makes a HUGE difference that the break up was completely mutual.

With my current ex. I don't know. First, he left me; so I think there's an issue of pride that I need to address. I don't want to be SO proud that I'm throwing away a perfectly good potential friend; but I also don't want to stay around if I'm just gonna be a friend he doesn't appreciate. It's so hard to be able to figure out one's value in another person's life.

Yes, of course, if the break up is mutual. But you know how people say once you cross the line, there's no going back. Disregard the fact that you once dated him, and see how he treats you as a friend, and you then can pass judgement. What is your current situation with your ex? NC?

August 22, 2006

So is it possible? That someone who said "you're not for me" could ever truly appreciate you as just a friend?

Of course it is possible and it has happened in my life. In fact, while I was in college one of my ex's (18 month relationship) moved in with me and another girl (yeah, I had two female room mates).

She dated other guys and I had a little twinge of something but nothing that she could see and even that eventually disappeared. We became friends. Close friends. Supportive of one another emotionally, there for one another but we both realized that a romantic relationship would not work in the long run.

That was around 20 years ago. We are still 'close' friends, don't see each other except maybe once every year or so for lunch or to go flying for the day but we are there for each other. Without getting into the details I can tell you that we have had an incredibly close but unromantic friendship through the years. Occasionally a very tiny bit of attraction arises but logic puts that back in it's place.

So how did we do it? At the core of our success, I think, is a basic understanding that any romantic involvement would be destined to fail, that we have a great appreciation for each others life paths and trust that the trust in our friendship will not be violated by some transient lust for each other. Of course we have naturally grown apart, life has taken us in dramatically different directions but what remains is a 'connection' not between a man and a woman but between two human beings that managed to rise above the societal imposed convention of no contact and find success.

August 22, 2006

Yes, of course, if the break up is mutual. But you know how people say once you cross the line, there's no going back. Disregard the fact that you once dated him, and see how he treats you as a friend, and you then can pass judgement. What is your current situation with your ex? NC?

Yep. NC since the break up in June. I'm back in my last year of grad school, so I know he's *around* (he's in my same program), but have not run into him yet.

August 22, 2006

So how did we do it? At the core of our success, I think, is a basic understanding that any romantic involvement would be destined to fail, that we have a great appreciation for each others life paths and trust that the trust in our friendship will not be violated by some transient lust for each other. Of course we have naturally grown apart, life has taken us in dramatically different directions but what remains is a 'connection' not between a man and a woman but between two human beings that managed to rise above the societal imposed convention of no contact and find success.

Wow. This sounds really interesting. Let me ask you a question though - who does the "work" in this friendship? And by that I mean, who keeps in touch with whom? Is it equal, or is one of you the one who always takes the initiative?

August 22, 2006

wow, larav - i think these are excellent questions. and i'm wondering about something very similar myself: is it worth considering a possible future friendship with an ex who broke up with me (and yes, hurt me deeply at the time) but claimed to want to maintain a friendship.

because you're right, there's a pride thing there, and a large part of that is that if i agree to be friends, i certainly don't want to feel like i'm doing all the work.

confidants of mine have told me that if i agree to the friendship, i have to put that stuff aside, and wipe the slate clean, as it were. in other words, it shouldn't matter who calls who, or who takes the initiative, because you're not dating. which i understand - i don't keep a tally of who calls who more often with my closest friends.

BUT - let's face it, that's because i trust that they want to talk to me out of interest and affection for me, not out of pity or guilt or whatnot. we've forged our own bond of trust over time, which is not something the ex and i have at this point. so the plain fact is, you're not starting from a blank slate - not really. it's disingenuous to pretend you are.

but i also want to believe that it's possible to work it out, if two human beings are genuinely interested in forging a new relationship and maintaining contact with each other because there is an important bond there (even if it isn't a romantic one).

but i'll be interested to hear what others say. i guess i would want more reassurance from him that a friendship is really important to him, and not just a consolation prize. and that's not reassurance i'm sure i'd actually be able to get, or even expect...

August 22, 2006

BUT - let's face it, that's because i trust that they want to talk to me out of interest and affection for me, not out of pity or guilt or whatnot. we've forged our own bond of trust over time, which is not something the ex and i have at this point. so the plain fact is, you're not starting from a blank slate - not really. it's disingenuous to pretend you are.

but i also want to believe that it's possible to work it out, if two human beings are genuinely interested in forging a new relationship and maintaining contact with each other because there is an important bond there (even if it isn't a romantic one).

but i'll be interested to hear what others say. i guess i would want more reassurance from him that a friendship is really important to him, and not just a consolation prize. and that's not reassurance i'm sure i'd actually be able to get, or even expect...

YES. YES. YES. All that is EXACTLY what has been going through my head. And like you say, how do you really find out if the friendship is being offered sincerely, or just as a "consolation prize"?

August 22, 2006

yeah, exactly!!! and the funny thing is, a guy i dated recently (we just had a couple of dates) and really liked - turns out an ex came back into his life, and he told me he wanted to try again with her. i was like, okay, fair enough. but then he made a big deal about wanting to be friends because we had really clicked and had a lot of fun together. since things hadn't gone very far between us, i thought it might be possible, so i agreed and thought, cool! i have a new fun friend. he even made a few tentative plans with me to do friend stuff.

needless to say, i haven't heard from him since (more than a month ago). now, i understand that it's difficult, because he asked me out initially, so he probably was attracted to me on some level, and it's difficult to maintain a friendship with one person you sort of dated while starting up a romantic relationship with someone else. i'm totally cool with that, though it's disappointing. i don't blame him at all for wanting to focus on his relationship.

but i don't get why he dangled the friendship carrot in the first place!!! there was really no need for it, and therefore, i thought he was sincere about it (he certainly made a big deal out of the whole thing). but as it turns out, it was just your typical garden-variety consolation prize after all.

i wish people would just say what they mean - i'm sure people do it to spare others hurt, but that's only because they haven't really thought it through. it seems like it's more to spare themselves an uncomfortable scene, or to delay the finality of ending a relationship. but it's not very nice to prolong another person's hurt, just because someone's afraid of feeling bad for causing it, or of experiencing it directly.

i never used to agree to friendship with people i'd dated because, frankly, i thought they were full of it and it wasn't realistic. then, more recently, i felt ashamed of that bad attitude, and shallow, and decided to take people at their word because that's the kind of world i'd like to live in.

but now i'm starting to remember why i took that stance in the first place...sigh.

on second thought, larav, i'm probably not the best person to answer your thread...

August 22, 2006

but i'll be interested to hear what others say. i guess i would want more reassurance from him that a friendship is really important to him, and not just a consolation prize. and that's not reassurance i'm sure i'd actually be able to get, or even expect...

Yeah, I agree with that. With my current ex, I have no doubt he wants, sincerely to be friends with me. I think it's difficult downshifting to friends only mode, at least in the beginning because you have to redraw boundaries that weren't there when you were in a relationship. That's my current problem, I have already set my boundaries and he hasn't set any, he crosses the line all the time so now it's been nearly 2 months of NC for me because I couldn't stand it.

YES. YES. YES. All that is EXACTLY what has been going through my head. And like you say, how do you really find out if the friendship is being offered sincerely, or just as a "consolation prize"?

I think you find out in time, and it is something you have to figure out for yourself. Pay attention to how he treats his friends and you, if the treatment is equal, I think he is sincere. If you feel that he expects different things (like, say, benefits??) from you than he expects from his friends normally, he's an A-Hole.

August 22, 2006

It would be too painful for me to remain friends with an ex lover or some one I had a love interest in but who rejected me.

I mean, I could not deal with going out with them and seeing them with a boyfriend. It would make me envious and angry.

Yeah, I know....I'm not mature or anything to deal with just being friends. But for me, it is a case of being so near but so far at the same time that would just be too hurtful to bear.

Love the ones who love you, and leave the ones who don't to be with the ones they love

August 22, 2006

Love the ones who love you, and leave the ones who don't to be with the ones they love

That's kind of the philosophy I'm trying to adopt, but I just want to make sure I'm not making any mistakes I'll regret later because of my pride. Sigh.

August 23, 2006

I think you find out in time, and it is something you have to figure out for yourself.

I think this is really true, and also this:

I think it's difficult downshifting to friends only mode, at least in the beginning because you have to redraw boundaries that weren't there when you were in a relationship.

It sucks, because the answer probably is that there isn't any way to know whether it's going to work out, how those boundaries will be drawn and how important it truly is to him unless you take the chance to test it out. It could go either way.

But you do have the choice of not taking that chance, and that's a totally valid option too. Your ex could enrich your life as a friend, but you will absolutely still have a full, rich life whether or not this person remains a part of it. You don't "need" him, which hopefully could take some of the pressure off the decision.

When I was still hung up on my ex (and even now, at times) I would attach singular importance to keeping him in my life - and to my relative importance in his. But in my more lucid moments, I can remember that it's all going to be okay anyway, one way or another, with or without him. And it will, Lara.

August 23, 2006

Wow. This sounds really interesting. Let me ask you a question though - who does the "work" in this friendship? And by that I mean, who keeps in touch with whom? Is it equal, or is one of you the one who always takes the initiative?

It's roughly equal but not very often right now because of physical distance. But when we do get together it is like we've never been apart (as friends.) In earlier years we'd get together a couple times a month but then she got married and busy with that phase of her life and I got busy with another phase of my life that took me thousands of miles away from her.

August 23, 2006

That's nice, Craig. It's good to know that this kind of friendship is possible. I think I could (and have) this kind of friendship with my ex fiance of years back; but with the current ex...I dunno. I guess only time will tell.

August 23, 2006

It sucks, because the answer probably is that there isn't any way to know whether it's going to work out, how those boundaries will be drawn and how important it truly is to him unless you take the chance to test it out. It could go either way.

But you do have the choice of not taking that chance, and that's a totally valid option too. Your ex could enrich your life as a friend, but you will absolutely still have a full, rich life whether or not this person remains a part of it. You don't "need" him, which hopefully could take some of the pressure off the decision.

When I was still hung up on my ex (and even now, at times) I would attach singular importance to keeping him in my life - and to my relative importance in his. But in my more lucid moments, I can remember that it's all going to be okay anyway, one way or another, with or without him. And it will, Lara.

You're right, SM. Either way things will be fine. I guess it's a sign that I'm still hung up on him that I even worry about these things. It's just so *tragic* to me (in a philosophical rather than practical sense) that someone that was so important in my life will be nothing but a distant memory later on. But then again, maybe I'm really not losing too much. But that is a judgment that's still too early for me to make because in a way, I still think very highly of my ex.

August 23, 2006

You're right, SM. Either way things will be fine. I guess it's a sign that I'm still hung up on him that I even worry about these things. It's just so *tragic* to me (in a philosophical rather than practical sense) that someone that was so important in my life will be nothing but a distant memory later on. But then again, maybe I'm really not losing too much. But that is a judgment that's still too early for me to make because in a way, I still think very highly of my ex.

Believe me, I know EXACTLY how you feel. I wrestle with it every day (especially feeling that it's tragic, somehow, that someone to whom I attached so much importance once could become a sidebar, or less, in my life. It's like all that energy just poured out of me and went...nowhere?)

But that's actually the product of a certain way of thinking - and, although it feels like it's deeply significant, the truth is, when I'm feeling clearheaded and more confident (and those moments come more and more often) I know that it's all in my head. It's really my choice to think about it that way, or to think about it slightly differently. I can attach importance to him, or I can dissolve that away; it hurts to know that I might have poured energy into someone and I won't get it back, but it's not really like that, is it? That's just one way to look at it. That energy didn't actually go anywhere, and I haven't really lost anything.

I think it's hard to switch from the tragic, all-or-nothing way of thinking to a more rational way of thinking, because when you're in the relationship, it's so deeply satisfying to feel like everything matters so much! God knows I miss that. But choosing to see things that way is a choice, all the same.

There's a type of therapy called rational-emotive behavior therapy, which is particularly effective against illnesses such as depression - because depression involves a lot of extremist, catastrophic thinking. Essentially, REBT shines a light on those thought patterns, and shows you that, in fact, you do have control over things you might think are out of control. Although it is hard to let go of the idea that a particular relationship meant everything -ultimately, once it's over, it's also a relief to know that there is a way to be at peace with it. And to let what happens (with regard to future friendship), happen, without attaching undue significance to it.

August 23, 2006

Hi,

OK, here is a question for you wise ones out there: Can an ex (who dumped you) truly appreciate you as a friend in the future?

I have been an ex who dumped someone, or the relationship just didn't work on both parts...and those guys are the best friends I have.

They are the ones that bail me out of trouble and do the "man" things for me (moving, car problems, etc). The ones I name in my emergency cards.

I know they are good people, honest, and trustworthy. So yes, to answer your question.

Ariadne

August 23, 2006

Thanks you all, for your replies. They've given me a lot to think about. I guess what it comes down to it is that maybe all of this will be irrelevant and moot with time as I realize that though I may have lost somebody that was (and is, still) special to me, I can still have a perfectly happy life without him in it. The trick now I guess is, as Rio put it somewhere in some other post, to let go of that lingering *hope* that really does me no good. That, in itself, is a terrible struggle and don't really know how to approach it, but I'm hoping that time will do its thing and it will just happen one day. For my part, I guess I will just continue to do NC so as to emotionally dis-attach myself from him, though it kills me to do so. Sigh. Breakups are so hard.

August 23, 2006

I can site 2 examples of when a friendship is, and is not possible.

First happened when I was younger. I was dating this girl, and out of the blue while out on a date she informs me that she is seeing someone else. Well needless to say the date didn't go very well and we ended things between us. Now we only dated for a couple of months, but I did care for her. I didnt speak with her for a while but decided afterwards that we could be friends if she was interested. Reason being, she was honest with me about why we broke up and I can respect that.

Most of you know the story by now of my last Ex. Dumped over the phone, no warning that there was something wrong, and no reason offered. I got handed a line. "I dont want to hurt you" which not knowing in my opinion is 10,000 times more hurtful. Can I be friends with this woman? I dont think so. Not happening any time soon anyways. I felt disrespected, and cheated, and lied to. I dont need friends like that.

I know not all endings are nice and respectful and rosey. Sometimes endings are just bad. This one honestly wasnt that bad considering some of the other endings I have read here. I think the bottom line is sometimes we were just to close romantically to turn around and be friends. The quickest way to move on is to dissapear from that persons life.

August 23, 2006

Diver - I understand what you're saying. I think the way the ex approaches the break up can potentially speak volumes on who they really are, and how much you really mattered to them. Granted, break-ups suck, and I guess when they're not mutual it can't really be considered a "good one." Nevertheless, I think there is always a level of respect that can be shown to the person you are letting go, and in my opinion, this could inform me as to what my future decision on the frienship issue could be.

It is especially painful to have someone end things with you in a way that makes one feel like we didn't matter at all (especially if they said, during the relationship, that you did matter to them). It makes it all that much more difficult to start a friendship from that particular ending.

So yeah, bottom line, I think you have a valid point.

August 23, 2006

Thanks you all, for your replies. They've given me a lot to think about. I guess what it comes down to it is that maybe all of this will be irrelevant and moot with time as I realize that though I may have lost somebody that was (and is, still) special to me, I can still have a perfectly happy life without him in it. The trick now I guess is, as Rio put it somewhere in some other post, to let go of that lingering *hope* that really does me no good. That, in itself, is a terrible struggle and don't really know how to approach it, but I'm hoping that time will do its thing and it will just happen one day. For my part, I guess I will just continue to do NC so as to emotionally dis-attach myself from him, though it kills me to do so. Sigh. Breakups are so hard.

(((hugs)))

you'll make it. look at the bouncing bunny! so happy.

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