Tatara Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 Hello there, I've been a "Loveshack Lurker" for a while now. I read but never post. There are many reasons, though that would be best served in a "I'm terrible at expressing myself" forum. This is the friendship forums. I've read many many posts and replys, and thought I would start off with a post here on a very simple silly problem I've always had. Well... <big breath> here I go! I have problems making female friends (I am a female as well). Well to be honest, I don't have any friends in real life at all. But I do meet and make little friendships online (as real as they can be I know its nothing like real time friendships). I make friends mostly online because I have some fairly severe social anxiety (as well as other mental issues) which prevent me from leaving the house without my spouse (what a cute little ryhme!). Online I can be the real me (as superficial and pathetic as that sounds) I am in my mid twenties and so is my husband. We are each others best friend and can discuss anything and everything - however I do constantly feel like I am repeating myself to him. We've never seen a need for friendships as we've always had each other for everything (we do not have kids etheir) so perhaps I am just not adept at how to be a friend anymore? I tend to treat my little online friendships as I do my friendship with my husband - I am an open book and can talk about everything. I am also usually comfortable with hearing and listening to everything with the other person too. Perhaps so much practice in being my husbands best and only friend (and him mine) has taught me that this is the way of friendship. Unfortunately in a few cases I think my level of comfort in discussing any issues with others have created a bond deeper then friendship and have had to cut ties with people I have "given the wrong impression" to. Its heartbreaking that I am causing damage to these people unintentionally or giving them the wrong ideas. I am a naturally caring, sensitive and sincere person - but I love my husband and only my husband. This is why I would like to make female friends rather then male friends. I would think that the understanding in a same-gender friendship would be alot clearer that there is no love-type bond involved. Though it could happen, but as I said - it seems alot less likely. My problem now? I've never been able to keep a female friendship. I don't know why but I just seem to generally dislike most of the women I meet (be it online or IRL). Its not from being sexist or that I will dislike her before I even get to know her - I really want to be able to get along with other women! Somehow its as if they can sense how hesitant I am, how I tread carefully, or maybe its how hard I am trying? Perhaps I have a personality flaw that is *so* apparent to women but yet not so much to men? I really doubt it is on their end, Perhaps I have a superiority complex that makes me feel better then them and hence dismissing it before I even give them a chance? Maybe somewhere inside I really *am* sexist? Maybe women just intimidate me, and I shy away? Perhaps women are just better at picking up the fact that I've never really seen a "need" for friendship, and maybe I am not treating them as if they are worth enough in my life? I've always been scared to let anyone in, or to let people be worth enough in my life to hurt me - perhaps I have to take care of this issue before I can forge a real friendship? If thats the case, what have my other friendships been based on? My psychiatrists (spelling ick ick!) have repeated over and over that I am too shut out, too "solo", too "friendless" and that I have to learn to have more in my life then just my home and my husband (*pets her dog* and you too of course!) but I am clueless on how to change this. <sigh> question after question. This is why I always read, but never post.
Adunaphel Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 Since it's not like you dislike women as soon as you meet them, or as soon as you hear them talking, there must be something that triggers your dislike and makes you wary at a certain point. If you find out what it is, you might have solved at least half of your problem. Can you remember when exactly you started to realize that you dislike/are unconfortable with this or that lady? Did you have any bad experiences - backstabbing female friends, so called friends hitting on your H or boyfriends or people you were infatuated with? Do you tend to see other women as rivals? Do you tend to see men and women as males and females rather than as persons? Perhaps women are just better at picking up the fact that I've never really seen a "need" for friendship, and maybe I am not treating them as if they are worth enough in my life? I would love to know more about what "treting someone as if they are not worth enough in your life" means to you. How do you think you give that impression to people? I've always been scared to let anyone in, or to let people be worth enough in my life to hurt me - perhaps I have to take care of this issue before I can forge a real friendship? I think that yes, this issue should be addressed. It could also help to tell about it to people you have known for a while and that you like enough to consider becoming friends with them. It works also with shyness. People -the right people, anyway - will become a bit more understanding once they know you have a problem.
Author Tatara Posted August 20, 2006 Author Posted August 20, 2006 Lets see if I got the hang of this quoting thing ^_^ Can you remember when exactly you started to realize that you dislike/are unconfortable with this or that lady? Did you have any bad experiences - backstabbing female friends, so called friends hitting on your H or boyfriends or people you were infatuated with? Do you tend to see other women as rivals? Do you tend to see men and women as males and females rather than as persons? Yes I have had bad expiriences with friendships, and being that all of my friends back when it happened were women (well, girls I suppose at that time) would probably explain it. To sum it up, I lost all my friends at the same time. I had an emotional breakdown in my 10th year of school, barely inched through the 11th to finish up highschool (a very lonely last year). I wouldn't say my friends abandoned me, I wouldn't stick around such a scarey person as myself if the roles were reversed etheir. But not having 1 person stick it through was fairly rough on me at that time in my life and I'm sure it has something to do with it all. I also placed alot of importance on friendships at that point in my life and I think thats why I am hesitant to place even a little importance on them now. I always forget about this until someone asks, hm. thats strange. Oh well, carrying on! I beleive that I do tend to see other women as rivals, my husband is all I have and I am terribly possessive of him (we're happy that way so far, I am told its not good for a relationship, but thats a topic for another day!) However because I have recognized this I have put alot of effort into swaying from it when I meet people. I think I tend to see alot more manipulating qualitys in women then in men and I think my recognizing this is a big deterance when dealing with them. I notice myself detaching from women when a woman laughs about something she obviously thinks is funny about how she did this or that and in turn got what she wanted from some guy I immidiately think that this isn't the type of person I want to know. I realize sometimes people don't even notice or might not mean it to be bad but I guess i look too deeply into that stuff. I hate seeing women playing around with mens feelings or sexuality because they know there is some material reward in it for them. I sometimes see it when it isn't even there though (or at least, I am guessing that I do cause not every woman I have met could be this way?) I know men do this to women too, but most don't seem to be as secretive about it - they want sex.. they have money. simple! A to B. I wish I could think like that. I am not sure that I differentiate "men" from "males" and "women" from "females". I'm sorry that sounds so cold and uncaring. When I get to know someone they always become a person to me, a name. But upon meeting or hearing about someone I'm fairly sure its just a "that female there" or "that male there". Its really starting to seem to me that I might just generalize people too much. I would love to know more about what "treating someone as if they are not worth enough in your life" means to you. How do you think you give that impression to people? When the going gets rough, emotionally I am there for them. I can spare a bit of my time to talk, in fact I enjoy emotionally involved conversations and feel that I can contribute alot logically. What I can't spare would be anything material or any sum of money - In the past I have also not been able to get involved with a friendship enough to show any sort of pain with any arguements or situations that would force two people to "work on it". When most people would think "we should work on this so we can still be friends" I would think "Time to step back a bit". I am working on this, I definately don't feel like a good person if I am able to detach myself so easily in order to avoid pain. How people could pick up on this I don't know, maybe I just give it off? I am very straightforward and I am very honest even if it hurts, I do know how to be honest though - I'm not cruel. I think that yes, this issue should be addressed. It could also help to tell about it to people you have known for a while and that you like enough to consider becoming friends with them. It works also with shyness. People -the right people, anyway - will become a bit more understanding once they know you have a problem. Thanks for taking the time to post for me today. I appreciate it.
BruiserKC Posted August 21, 2006 Posted August 21, 2006 ^_^ Yes I have had bad expiriences with friendships, and being that all of my friends back when it happened were women (well, girls I suppose at that time) would probably explain it. To sum it up, I lost all my friends at the same time. I had an emotional breakdown in my 10th year of school, barely inched through the 11th to finish up highschool (a very lonely last year). I wouldn't say my friends abandoned me, I wouldn't stick around such a scarey person as myself if the roles were reversed etheir. But not having 1 person stick it through was fairly rough on me at that time in my life and I'm sure it has something to do with it all. I also placed alot of importance on friendships at that point in my life and I think thats why I am hesitant to place even a little importance on them now. I always forget about this until someone asks, hm. thats strange. Oh well, carrying on! That can be really rough...especially in high school where people can be extremely cruel. It tests you as a person and helps you determine who can be trusted and who can't. Sometimes you can get burned for taking the risk to consider someone a friend...but that's the way in all of life and all relationships. I'm sure the thought of rejection came to mind as you and your husband became closer and you both contemplated moving your relationship to the next level. You just have to take a chance. When the going gets rough, emotionally I am there for them. I can spare a bit of my time to talk, in fact I enjoy emotionally involved conversations and feel that I can contribute alot logically. What I can't spare would be anything material or any sum of money - In the past I have also not been able to get involved with a friendship enough to show any sort of pain with any arguements or situations that would force two people to "work on it". When most people would think "we should work on this so we can still be friends" I would think "Time to step back a bit". I am working on this, I definately don't feel like a good person if I am able to detach myself so easily in order to avoid pain. How people could pick up on this I don't know, maybe I just give it off? I am very straightforward and I am very honest even if it hurts, I do know how to be honest though - I'm not cruel. All relationships...marriages, friendships, family...at one point or another call for a situation that needs to be worked on. I know speaking for myself in the last few years I've changed dramatically as a person. I had to work through it with my wife as well as my close friends and family...at times I was a pain in the ass but they understood what I was going through and always had their support. Relationships take a bit of elbow grease and are always changing...it's a good thing. What happens down the road if you and your husband have issues you have to work through? Are you going to be willing to do what's needed to make it good? It's easy to cut and run...the challenge is to stick around and make it work. Relationships and friendships ain't just good times and great oldies.
dgiirl Posted August 21, 2006 Posted August 21, 2006 Tatara, I can relate to everything you are saying. I do not have that many girl friends. Most girls, the really girly girls, who are into makeup, clothes, money, very superficial things, I stay away from. Like you wrote, those girls who brag about all the guys attention and how easy it is to make them do such and such, who are catty and name call each other behind their backs, is not anyone i want in my life. But trust me, not ALL girls are like this. I do have a few girl friends that are dear to me, and that's because we share the same beliefs. These girls are smart, they dont act dumb around guys, they dont constantly need the attention from guys, they're pretty much themselves, which is how I am, so we get along really well. You dont need to be friends with all girls, nor with everyone. You do not need to be friends with anyone you dont have anything in common with. However, there are girls out there who share some things in common with you. I think if you find a hobby that you are passionate about, you will find like minded individuals and thus some new girl friends. And remember, highschool sucked! You gotta leave those girls in the past. They were not your true friends, because a true friend would have stood by your side.
Author Tatara Posted August 22, 2006 Author Posted August 22, 2006 And remember, highschool sucked! *laughs* with no intention of sounding ghetto, I just have to say it. "Hellz yeah!" Thanks for the post D, you have a good head on your shoulders After rereading the thread and my own posts as well, I do think I have to be a tad more forgiving of some things, but you are right in the way that I don't need to accept everyone and perhaps I just need a bit more variety. (that group therapy from another thread might just be a start)
Ripples Posted August 23, 2006 Posted August 23, 2006 Just to put another spin on what you've said about being more forgiving, is it possible that your expectations of others are a little too high to begin with? Maybe they're not only too high of others, but too high of yourself? Do you feel that you're 'not good' enough to be friends with other women, as opposed to them not being 'good enough'* to be friends with you? *good enough used as illustration only.
TheSilentType Posted August 23, 2006 Posted August 23, 2006 are you close with your mom? just curious....
dgiirl Posted August 23, 2006 Posted August 23, 2006 *laughs* with no intention of sounding ghetto, I just have to say it. "Hellz yeah!" Thanks for the post D, you have a good head on your shoulders After rereading the thread and my own posts as well, I do think I have to be a tad more forgiving of some things, but you are right in the way that I don't need to accept everyone and perhaps I just need a bit more variety. (that group therapy from another thread might just be a start) Now I'm starting to put the pieces together There is a mix between your own perceptions and other people's true character. You do need to try to distinguish between the two, and realize not everyone is the way you percieve them, but there are some people who are the way you percieve them I use to automatically think any girl who was into fashion was also catty, and I would automatically stay away from them based on past experiences. However, my current girl friends are very well dressed, and yet, they are not catty at all. They are not ditzy, they are not dumb, they're not attention seeking, they're very pretty, modest and smart. But I had to give them a chance to get to know them and get to trust them. Once you find one girl you like, she'll likely have like minded friends. My friends are all pretty much sane, with a few odd balls here and there, but i still love them lol I've recently been meeting my friend's friends too! And they are all pretty cool too. And I think it's time to go to that group therapy If for nothing else, it'll be an experience
Author Tatara Posted August 23, 2006 Author Posted August 23, 2006 Just to put another spin on what you've said about being more forgiving, is it possible that your expectations of others are a little too high to begin with? Maybe they're not only too high of others, but too high of yourself? Do you feel that you're 'not good' enough to be friends with other women, as opposed to them not being 'good enough'* to be friends with you? *good enough used as illustration only. Oh I am a definately a perfectionist this is true. I notice everything wrong and try to work on it to make it right - right down to recognizing every little lie I tell myself to avoid certain situations. I think that I do this to others too and am disappointed when they don't notice the wrong in themselves and try to make it better. I'm trying to avoid this and thats what is making me think that I am judgemental. It is very hard to try not to be judgemental as its a subconcious thing (right?... wait now I'm not so sure...) TheSilentType - are you close with your mom? just curious.... Not close as in pour my heart out close. From what I've heard of my mom apparently she is quite a sensitive person and she misses me alot. The problem is that I will only hear this from my dad when he calls to tell me she cried because I don't call her enough. So I realize she is sensitive but everything else I have ever seen of her has shown me otherwise. She is a very strong woman, our family has always been detached (my father and I having very similar mental and emotional issues was very hard on her when I was growing up.) and since I show those "detached" qualitys more then I should in front of even immediate family I think she feels the same way I feel about her which is that we both hide so much and act so much in front of each other that there is no way to breach that boundry into a close, talkative relationship. My sister on the other hand I haven't talked to (by choice) in 4 years. I am ashamed to say it but I really doubt I will ever lose the hatred I feel for her. Things she has done to my father in his weak points, things she has done to men in general. Admitting it was fun to "get what she wants". Now that I'm thinking about this, I might see a reflection of the vicious things she told me she does for fun in these women that I get close to as friends. I "connect the dots" on issues that are not even there. Every little question becomes a new tree of thoughts and possibilitys for me, thank you for your post and I love the nickname you chose Dgiirl - There is a mix between your own perceptions and other people's true character. You do need to try to distinguish between the two, and realize not everyone is the way you percieve them, but there are some people who are the way you percieve them I was always such a firm beleiver that my perceptions were right on the money, I guess I have more confidence then I thought if I can be so stuck up to think I know it all Funny as it sounds, that is actually quite a refreshing thing to know. Thank you again for your insight, I never really beleived it from a therapist, but given the fact that I can't look people in the eyes when I talk to them, maybe I have an easier time typing it. Online therapists! Now that would defiantely work! Then therapists would be out of a job -- phooey! scratch that. So to sum up - If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck - I have to wait and see cause it might not be a duck. I think I got myself a new motto I'm going to ask my husband to come with me to the doctors today and set up that appointment.
blind_otter Posted August 23, 2006 Posted August 23, 2006 I have the same problem. Personally I think it's because I don't accept myself, so how can I accept anyone else. Not to say you have this problem. Just wanted you to know, you're not the only one.
Guest Posted August 29, 2006 Posted August 29, 2006 I just ran across your thread-I just wanted to say that you are not the only one! I too have the exact same problem with making female friendships and keeping them. It really does suck, so if it's any consolation, I know just how you feel. Keep your head up and don't give up hope-cuz without hope, what is there?
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