i2wtbl Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 I’ve been reading all the posts for a couple of days now… Let me say that I’ve been on both sides of the fence – being cheated on, as well as being the other woman. While I’ve never been married, speaking from time and experience perspective, I can honestly say that the men that cheated on me did both of us a favor. Yes, it hurt like nothing else and yes, my self-esteem got a major beating in the process, but I overcame the heartache and learnt a lesson or two. Those relationships were doomed from the start… we were incompatible for many different reasons. Now, being on the opposite side of the spectrum, I have to voice my opinion about infidelity. I read a number of posts with not so kind comments and opinions about OW or OM… and I can understand and appreciate what everyone is coming from. I would still, however, put the sole responsibility for the affair on the spouse. There’s this intangible concept of chemistry, which everyone seems to be ignoring or even underestimating. I actually happen to know of a happy marriage (relatively speaking) that tore apart after 20 years and 3 kids, because the husband fell head over hills in love with another woman. They actually married and 5 years later have 3 kids on their own. I know both of them and while I’m not too fond of the new wife, I know for the fact that **he** was the one that went after her, not the other way around. And you know what was crazy about it all? While his previous marriage was full of friendship and partnership, when these two met the sparks were flying like there’s no tomorrow – the chemistry was so obvious that I… watching it develop the way it did, admitted openly that if I was in her shoes, I probably would not be able to resist it. Needless to say, she did not and while some will judge my opinion on this one, good for her. So now I am in a situation where a MM (long marriage & kids) worships the ground that I walk on. I swear, I don’t remember when was the last time I had a man give me this much respect, attention, and admiration. We are not having an affair, but let me tell you, if he didn’t have kids, I would actually consider one. It’s been up in my face for 10 months now and I can feel how my “protective walls” are very slowly, yet gradually coming down. I will continue on resisting it for as long as I can, but no one can tell me that I am to blame for anything… no one can tell me that I instigated anything… no one can tell me that I’m living in fool’s paradise or have low self-worth because this man is crazy about me. And yes, there’s an incredible chemistry between the two of us… one that we’re both fighting and both are hoping to win the fight. In a couple of years we will probably look at all of this and smile, but for now… I have a newly found perspective or marriage and relationships. “Till death do us part” is an incredible blessing, not something that we should just feel entitled to. People don’t have sneaky intentions by default. At the end of the day, everyone’s looking for love… the married spouse wants to be loved just as much as the other woman/man. And sometimes it’s not about looking for love in all the wrong places… it’s about the unfortunate circumstances under which it develops.
whichwayisup Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 The only way you can not let "it" happen between you two is to end the friendship. You two are having an emotional affair, which is just as bad as a physical affair. There is chemistry there, you both are fighting it...He's married, has children and more than likely isn't going to leave his wife to be with you. I hope you don't end up as the OW in his life. Are you leaving the door open to other men, or are you just enjoying this MM's attention.
alphamale Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 You two are having an emotional affair, which is just as bad as a physical affair. I beg to differ
whichwayisup Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 It can still do alot of damage, depending on how deep the feelings go. Maybe "just as bad" isn't the right choice of words...But still, the unsuspecting spouse would still be very upset and lose trust/faith in their partner.
alphamale Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 Maybe "just as bad" isn't the right choice of words... There are 3 levels in my view: Emotional only - not so badPhysical only - badEmotional & physicial - very very bad
norajane Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 The low self-worth comes in when you act on the chemistry and, in order to be with him you accept all the sneaking around, and start all the lying and the endless waiting alone on holidays and your birthday and his family vacations and wonder if he and his wife are having sex right now...
Outcast Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 Chemistry is actually just biology. And means little. It will wear off. It always does.
jonesgirly Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 the unsuspecting spouse would still be very upset and lose trust/faith in their partner. exactly...........and to "what" degree of betrayal does it matter? Loss of trust is a wound that will never go away. Of course, there are mitigating factors that make that loss much deeper, but whats the point of debating that point? I beg to differ Never beg...it's unbecoming. On a serious note though, I would like to explain the depths of hurt that my husband inflicted on me by "just" having an EA. If he had "only" "screwed her senseless" I could understand. The pants really do hold the power, don't they? But he felt things for her and shared things with her that should've been reserved for 'us.' He hid his relationship with her for TWO years! And only recently has he 'picked up' where he 'left off' with her. How can anyone possibly compete with that? No contact for months, and she is STILL in his heart. The desire to maintain that emotional connection is very strong, and apparently he cannot live without it. There is no way I could ever compete with the intentions of his heart.
LakesideDream Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 I'm gonna have to read i2wbdl's post a couple of more times.. one thing is for sure, she's a writer.
Author i2wtbl Posted August 20, 2006 Author Posted August 20, 2006 I cannot end the friendship, as somebody suggested. We work together. I absolutely love much job and love the company that I work for; making a change in this department is simply not an option and not something that I would even consider at this point. We are not physical in any shape or form. In terms of EA, please give me your definition of what it actually means? We don’t call each other to talk about the sky outside, it’s always all business… we don’t go out for lunch or drinks alone… we don’t see each other outside of work… I feel like the point of my post was missed completely. So many people were quick to jump into conclusions and offer their advice on how I should handle myself so that my self-worth in intact. This is not about me, folks.
superconductor Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 I cannot end the friendship... Why is that? Does someone hold a gun to your head and say, "You MUST be friends with this person"? Is there some sort of chemical imbalance within you that forces a type of OCD behaviour? Does some kind of supernatural deity take over your personality and make you do things that you know are wrong? Or, more likely, is it a choice you have made? Answer that first, then we can discuss the "meat" of the post.
Author i2wtbl Posted August 20, 2006 Author Posted August 20, 2006 But he felt things for her and shared things with her that should've been reserved for 'us.' He hid his relationship with her for TWO years! And only recently has he 'picked up' where he 'left off' with her. How can anyone possibly compete with that? No contact for months, and she is STILL in his heart. The desire to maintain that emotional connection is very strong, and apparently he cannot live without it. There is no way I could ever compete with the intentions of his heart. Jonesgirly hit the nail on the head. I am not suggesting that **I** have this type of connection (I really don't know, as I haven't taken it far enough to find out), but I feel like this type of connection happens and is possible outside of the marriage. I don’t know that I can condemn two people for feeling this way towards each other.
Author i2wtbl Posted August 20, 2006 Author Posted August 20, 2006 Why is that? Does someone hold a gun to your head and say, "You MUST be friends with this person"? Is there some sort of chemical imbalance within you that forces a type of OCD behaviour? Does some kind of supernatural deity take over your personality and make you do things that you know are wrong? Or, more likely, is it a choice you have made? Answer that first, then we can discuss the "meat" of the post. Yes, of course it’s my choice! Why should I be alienating myself from being social with him? What do you suggest? Being bitchy to him instead? Not saying “hi” or “bye” on the hallway? Not going out for happy hour with people from work? Becoming an outsider at the office? I don’t understand.
Outcast Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 Why should I be alienating myself from being social with him? Because it feeds the addiction. Not saying “hi” or “bye” on the hallway? You don't say 'hi' or 'bye' to every single person you work with, do you? Not going out for happy hour with people from work? Right Becoming an outsider at the office? If that's what it takes. Your relationship with your H has to be first above all other relationships and if it's in jeopardy, you do what you must to preserve it. Jobs end, work colleagues move on - it's not worth devoting yourself to a workplace. It is worth it to devote yourself to the person you promised to devote yourself to.
travellingman Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 I don’t know that I can condemn two people for feeling this way towards each other. Exactly, chemistry can develop between two really good people, and it almost always happens when neither is looking for it. It's not like some middle aged guy going after the 22 yo secretary because he's having a personal crisis.
superconductor Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 Yes, of course it’s my choice! Good. Glad you understand that, and that when you wrote that you "couldn't" end the friendship, you actually meant you "wouldn't" end the friendship. Why should I be alienating myself from being social with him? What do you suggest? Being bitchy to him instead? Not saying “hi” or “bye” on the hallway? Not going out for happy hour with people from work? Becoming an outsider at the office? I don’t understand. Hardly. There is such a thing as being civil, professional, respectful. OK, so to the "meat" of the OP. Outcast is right on the money when she talks about chemistry. It's biologically and psychologically driven, and as an obviously intelligent woman, you probably understand that already. And, like a flash of light and heat when a match is struck, it eventually fades. It's supposed to; if it doesn't, then there's a deeper issue that needs to be addressed. Of course, the other part of the equation is the state of his marriage. Whether it's happy and supportive between MM and his wife isn't really your concern, because it's obviously between them exclusively. So what are the implications of the two alternatives? If you and he start an affair, he'll get caught, lose his wife, probably lose his house, lose most of his access to the children, end up with a depleted bank account, his social standing will be diminished and he'll suffer guilt for the rest of his days. If you and he don't have an affair, both you and he will always wonder "what might have been." But so what? We all make decisions, every day, that have the potential to take our lives in different directions. Some of these decisions are big, some are not so big, some we think are big really aren't, and some that we figure are inconsequential could have dramatic results. Ask yourself what you would suggest to a friend who is in the same situation. Would you counsel your friend to begin an affair despite the obvious risks and inevitable heartbreak? Or would you tell her to back off and allow him to live his life? I can't answer it for you - that's not my place, not is it my desire to debate about it - but I can tell you from personal experience that the hurt created by an infidelity, especially when there are children involved, are far more enveloping than some short-term jollies.
Author i2wtbl Posted August 20, 2006 Author Posted August 20, 2006 I am fully aware of implications of an affair… gee, I wonder if it’s the reason of why we’re not having one? You provided the most predictable alternatives in your post and I understand why. Potentially your spouse cheated on you at some point or maybe the other way around, and you ended up in one of the scenarios described in your post. Point well taken. What I’m trying to say is that while there are dozens upon dozens of affairs that fit the cliché, there are ones that don’t. Please try to think outside of your personal experiences for a minute. There is such a thing as being civil, professional, respectful. This is just a play of words. We are all of the above; it's what hides behind all if it that needs to be thought about it. And trust me, I do think about it.
superconductor Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 Clearly, you've already decided and are here looking for approbation. So go ahead, knock yourself out.
Author i2wtbl Posted August 20, 2006 Author Posted August 20, 2006 There's absolutely no need to get defensive here. This is a discussion board and we're clearly discussing something. I don't know that it's clear that I decided on anything. If I am not certain, how can you be? Approbation is not going to help here... one has to think for themselves.
Ladyjane14 Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 Outcast is right on the money when she talks about chemistry. It's biologically and psychologically driven.... I'm also in agreement with Outcast and Super. "Chemistry" isn't any more than Infatuation and Attraction. A person who's strong in their convictions needn't respond to it. It's not a higher brain function.
travellingman Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 I am fully aware of implications of an affair… gee, I wonder if it’s the reason of why we’re not having one? have either of you acknowledged any feelings to the other?
Outcast Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 while there are dozens upon dozens of affairs that fit the cliché, there are ones that don’t. That belief is, in itself, a cliché. Tell ya what. Go read the Infidelity and OM/OW forums for a while. You'll be surprised, I guess, at how the stories ALL sound the same. Particularly the ones in which people insist that THEIR story is 'different from all those others' with a sniff of derision.
Author i2wtbl Posted August 20, 2006 Author Posted August 20, 2006 have either of you acknowledged any feelings to the other? I have not. To be frank, I don't know what I feel. I have much respect for a family unit and so I have been brushing this whole thing off. He has, but not directly. We've never had an intimate conversation about us, as I feel like we're both scared about the consequences, so we keep it light and on a high-level.
travellingman Posted August 20, 2006 Posted August 20, 2006 He has, but not directly. Guys aren't usually that subtle. How do you know he likes you?
Author i2wtbl Posted August 20, 2006 Author Posted August 20, 2006 Guys aren't usually that subtle. How do you know he likes you? Well, he’s not that subtle, to be honest. But then again my definition of direct acknowledgement is probably different than a lot of people’s. I used to be in a relationship with someone who was very scared of commitment and he would always go around in circles about the way he feels about me. Ever since then, I need a clear and direct confirmation about those things. The guy from work told me many things… and it usually comes out after a couple of beers at a happy hour outing, with other people around us (again, we DO NOT go out alone). I feel a silly about listing everything that has been said, but he actually told me that if he wasn’t married, he’d want to be with me… that I’m perfect… that he frequently thinks about me, blah, blah, blah. I don’t want to take it all too seriously and I don't think I do.
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