The genuine "nice guy".

[SoCalCatman72]

So on several of the forums I follow, (yeah, I spend waaayyy too much time on the internet, gotta love alt+tab) there seems to be a common theme in the "love and dating" sections where some guy who thinks he is a "nice guy" comes along and starts complaining about how all the girls say they want a "nice guy", but end up going for "jerks". This inevitably devolves into an analysis of how the "nice guy" is in fact a "needy guy", a "doormat" etc.

 

So I posted the following response, and got some really nice feedback, I just wanted to share my little bit of freestyle writing with my FAVORITE site.

 

The Genuine Nice Guy

By: me

 

He is equally kind to all around him. He doesn't show favor to the wealthy, the strong, or the good looking. The nice guy will give the bum a dollar, just because he has one to spare and would never make a snide remark about not spending it on booze. The nice guy is polite, and chivalrous. He is the guy who holds doors open for others, does not mind taking a moment to help a stranger jumpstart their car, or help someone carry their packages, regardless of age, gender or looks. The nice guy is kind to children and animals, and treats everyone from his boss to the janitor with equal respect. The nice guy chooses daily to choose right over wrong, and is deeply offended by people that use and step on others for selfish gain.

 

The nice guy is definitely not needy. The nice guy may be lonely at times, but he has the inner strength of character to face the world alone, if that is his lot. The nice guy stands up for what he believes in and will fight to the death to defend the people and principles that he truly loves. The nice guy is patient and can find many ways to entertain himself without depending on others. The nice guy has a genuine sense of humor, and loves to laugh at himself.

 

The nice guy truly does appreciate a beautiful woman, but knows that the body will age and it is the soul of a person that we truly fall in love with. The nice guy is a hopeless romantic, but doesn't go running around trying to re-create romance movies in his life. To the nice guy, chemistry is more important than physical beauty. The nice guy truly does want to be friends first, and is not looking for a quick lay or one night stand.

 

The nice guy is not flashy, so in the world he tends to blend, kind of middle of the road. In essence the nice guy is completely average and forgettable. The nice guy keeps himself busy with the things he cares about. You find the nice guy volunteering at church, at shelters, or wherever he truly feels he can make a difference in the world. He does this not to proclaim to the world how much of a "nice guy" he is, but because it is his heart's passion. You will most likely not find the nice guy at nightclubs or bars or any other "meat market" type environment.

 

The nice guy wants a nice girl. He knows that the vixen, the temptress and the cheat, despite how intoxicating they may be, will only lead to inevitable heartbreak.

[Outcast]

Congratulations. You are the THIRTY-TWO BILLIONTH GUY TO POST A NICE GUY POST ON LS!!!!!

[Tony T]

I think you give the nice guy too much credit for intelligence. Very often the nice guy is being nice for the sole purpose of winning the favor of others...and that practice often backfires. Most often, the nice guy hasn't discovered his true self yet...or he would be true to himself.

 

The nice guy isn't wise to the ways of the world because a majority of people, that's better than 50 percent, will pounce all over his generous little butt and eat him alive if he doesn't set boundaries for himself.

 

I prefer the thread that outlined the characteristics of the balanced guy. That seemed more realistic to me. A balanced buy is very kind but knows when to draw the line...when he is giving away the store...and he won't stand for being stomped on.

 

And, for the record, this is the 746,625th thread about nice guys. I did a search and counted...haha!

[Outcast]

And, for the record, this is the 746,625th thread about nice guys. I did a search and counted...haha!

 

I stand corrected

[SoCalCatman72]

Oh well, it's Friday night and I've got the following to entertain me;

 

a. Cats that hate 90 degree weather and are cranky.

b. Boring reruns on tv.

c. Boring rehashing of overanalyzed subjects on ls.

 

*sigh* I gotta get a life

[Outcast]

Somebody started a discussion on free will earlier if you want to get philosophical..

[Yamaha]

Nice guys are not looking for nice girls. If they were they would find them. Nice guys are looking for the vixen, temptress, hot chicks that like the jerks.

[SoCalCatman72]

I just want to add that I'm bored this Friday, strictly due to the fact that I've been a completely lazy bum this week, had a hangover this morning, and didn't feel like going out with my friends tonight. =P

[SoCalCatman72]

Nice guys are not looking for nice girls. If they were they would find them. Nice guys are looking for the vixen, temptress, hot chicks that like the jerks.

 

Nope, IMO those are the needy guys. Nice guys have already learned their lessons about the vixens, temptresses and hot chicks that like jerks.

 

case in point:

 

[cut and pasted from an article that's going around the net] Another mistake "Nice Guys" make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because "Nice Guys" are "helpers". A "Nice Guy" thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.

[Yamaha]

[cut and pasted from an article that's going around the net] Another mistake "Nice Guys" make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because "Nice Guys" are "helpers". A "Nice Guy" thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.

 

Nice guys are usually shy, timid and afraid of rejection so they hope that they can slide in the back door by playing the friend card and they are always disappointed.

[SoCalCatman72]

Yeah I guess the point of my original post was that there is a vast difference between what women think a nice guy is and what a man who thinks he is a nice guy is.

[stoopid_guy]

Yeah I guess the point of my original post was that there is a vast difference between what women think a nice guy is and what a man who thinks he is a nice guy is.

"Nice" really doesn't say much. "Mr. Rogers" ("It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood") and Sean Connery, in most of his movie roles, are both nice guys.

 

I do think most of the guys who complain about how women deal with "nice guys" are still pretty young and trying to find themselves, and/or are still naive enough to think they can figure women out.

[TheSilentType]

I would never label myself as a nice guy, even though I am nice at times to people.

 

There are very, very few truly nice people.

 

A lot of these "nice guys" are not nice to everyone, which a truly nice person is.

 

If a very fat girl asked you to dance and right afterwards a hot girl asked you to dance, chances are that most of these self-proclaimed "nice guys" or those who say "my friends think I am nice" would dance with the hot girl.

 

"Nice guys" are only nice to people they want to like them. And in my book, that makes them not so nice.

[lindya]

"Nice" really doesn't say much. "Mr. Rogers" ("It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood") and Sean Connery, in most of his movie roles, are both nice guys.

 

I think of "nice" as meaning polite, kind, loyal and generally inoffensive. All good things, but ultimately fairly mediocre qualities that pretty much anyone can aspire to. With reference to the Harry Potter books, Mr "Nice" belongs to the house of Hufflepuff.

 

For someone to grab the attention, they need to have some of those truly stand-out qualities such as courage, wit and vitality. Things that will turn a mediocre Hufflepuff into a charismatic Gryffindor.

[burning 4 revenge]

I think of "nice" as meaning polite, kind, loyal and generally inoffensive. All good things, but ultimately fairly mediocre qualities that pretty much anyone can aspire to. With reference to the Harry Potter books, Mr "Nice" belongs to the house of Hufflepuff.

 

For someone to grab the attention, they need to have some of those truly stand-out qualities such as courage, wit and vitality. Things that will turn a mediocre Hufflepuff into a charismatic Gryffindor.

Lindya, WTF are you talking about? It sound like you're having a mad tea party over there

[lindya]

Lindya, WTF are you talking about? It sound like you're having a mad tea party over there

 

Then I shouldn't talk. More tea?

[shoedevil]

I think of "nice" as meaning polite, kind, loyal and generally inoffensive. All good things, but ultimately fairly mediocre qualities that pretty much anyone can aspire to.

Well, I never thought altruism was a mediocre quality. And I think it's rather difficult for people to achieve a high level of kindness and mutual respect in regards to other people in general. If everybody can become "nice" so easily, I certainly haven't met very many people who chosen to do so. Then again, as I've noticed many times on LS, the definition of a "nice guy" can be anything from a shy introvert to a dangerous sociopath.

For someone to grab the attention, they need to have some of those truly stand-out qualities such as courage, wit and vitality.

I'd prefer someone who was nice and bland to someone who was arrogant, unkind, but also full of energy and charisma. However, I've never been in a situation that was so black-and-white. I'd judge someone based upon their actions when they have nothing to gain, rather than how they project themselves in social circles. A truly "nice" person in my view would treat everyone with some basic level of respect, and would do so without any ulterior motives. It's not particularly exciting, but I think it's attractive. If being a decent human being is an unattractive quality, or just not socially admired, then there's nothing innately wrong with someone like that. They just need to find an environment where they are appreciated. I found love and companionship when I got out of the dating scene. I didn't think it was a very good place for "nice" people to meet.

[lindya]

I'd prefer someone who was nice and bland to someone who was arrogant, unkind, but also full of energy and charisma. However, I've never been in a situation that was so black-and-white. I'd judge someone based upon their actions when they have nothing to gain, rather than how they project themselves in social circles. A truly "nice" person in my view would treat everyone with some basic level of respect, and would do so without any ulterior motives. It's not particularly exciting, but I think it's attractive. If being a decent human being is an unattractive quality,

 

I take your points, and I certainly don't think being a decent human being is an unattractive thing. I can also see, reading my post again, why people would take offence that I described certain qualities as "mediocre". It was wrong to describe kindess and loyalty as mediocre qualities...but I think these are characteristics that many people ascribe to themselves and are able to convey to others with gestures that don't necessarily require much effort.

 

Throw a few coppers to a homeless person. Give a bit of money to charity. Smile and be affable to everyone you meet, send birthday cards and buy people flowers. That's nice...but it doesn't always tell you much about what lies beneath.

 

I suppose that what I had in mind, when I wrote that post, was that certain people I've met who aren't widely considered to be "nice" people (eg they might have a sarcastic sense of humour or a degree of cynicism that others find off-putting) have proved, in times of adversity, to possess levels of strength, courage and honesty that were absent in the "nice" people who spend their lives avoiding conflict and distancing themselves from difficult situations.

 

The stroppy agitators who put themselves on the line in fighting injustice and campaigning for causes they believe in frequently fail to conform to socially prescribed norms of niceness. Often their passion and conviction means that they aren't that easy to be around, but there's a strength and substance to them that I find is all too often absent in the person whose primary motivation is to be seen as "Mr Nice". And yes, I do find those people more charismatic than I find Mr Nice to be.

[Chinook]

The stroppy agitators who put themselves on the line in fighting injustice and campaigning for causes they believe in frequently fail to conform to socially prescribed norms of niceness.

 

Lindya, it's late here (or early depending how you see it) but you guys have alligators standing for politics over there now..? Could you guys send a few of those over to teach Mr B Liar a thing or two..? Ta very much.

 

[lindya]

Lindya, it's late here (or early depending how you see it) but you guys have alligators standing for politics over there now..? Could you guys send a few of those over to teach Mr B Liar a thing or two..? Ta very much.

 

 

Agitators! You must have been as drunk when you read that as I was when I wrote it!

 

I'm where you are, Chinook, and yes...Tony Blair has that smarmy, deferential "Nice Guy" act wrapped up. Here's an old Scotsman article which seeks to identify why women are so turned off by him...

 

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=226372005

 

"Women, when it comes to men, are relatively perceptive at picking up on insincerity and know when a man is ‘giving them a line’. They also pick up on much more subtle signs such as when someone like Tony Blair is deliberately making eye contact, mimicking the gestures of the person he’s speaking to, or holding his arms and hands in an open gesture.

 

"There is every chance women are detecting a false smile which is not going into his eyes and sense his smile is really a tense grimace.

 

"This may be interpreted by women as a lack of confidence and that he is not comfortable himself. Sincerity is everything.

 

"While women may pick up such signals and conclude that Mr Blair was not telling the truth, they may be applying the same judgment to situations where he is indeed being truthful.

 

"If Mr Blair’s advisers want to improve his record with women it may be time to end the ‘Mr Nice Guy’ approach and return to the traditional image of a politician. So spending a day with Richard and Judy on the sofa could backfire.

[Adunaphel]

I think of "nice" as meaning polite, kind, loyal and generally inoffensive. All good things, but ultimately fairly mediocre qualities that pretty much anyone can aspire to. With reference to the Harry Potter books, Mr "Nice" belongs to the house of Hufflepuff.

 

For someone to grab the attention, they need to have some of those truly stand-out qualities such as courage, wit and vitality. Things that will turn a mediocre Hufflepuff into a charismatic Gryffindor.

 

Most Harry Potter readers seem to assume that Gryffindors automatically have the good but fairly mediocre Hufflepuffs qualities.

Many women seem to assume that the brave, charismatic guys full of vitality are also automatically "nice".

 

I'm too scared of falling in love with Mr. Jerk, and that's why I'd go looking for a boyfriend in Hufflepuff if I could , but being Mr. Nice (*expecially* in the acception you described) certainly is not enough to make a man interesting.

 

Mr Nice with some of the other interesting qualities.... well, that would be precious relationship material.

 

Problem is that IMO the "attractive qualities" make a good camouflage for the "nice qualities". (not that the nice qualities are not attractive!)

 

I think that often the more bonus attractive qualities a guy has, the longer it takes to tell if he is a nice guy or not.

[lindya]

Most Harry Potter readers seem to assume that Gryffindors automatically have the good but fairly mediocre Hufflepuffs qualities.

Many women seem to assume that the brave, charismatic guys full of vitality are also automatically "nice".

 

I'm too scared of falling in love with Mr. Jerk, and that's why I'd go looking for a boyfriend in Hufflepuff if I could , but being Mr. Nice (*expecially* in the acception you described) certainly is not enough to make a man interesting.

 

For me, some of it comes down to past professional experiences. There are situations in which you just don't want to find yourself relying on a nice but ineffectual Hufflepuff who'll find a nice safe activity to distract themselves with to justify avoiding helping you out in a risky situation.

 

Mr Nice with some of the other interesting qualities.... well, that would be precious relationship material.

 

That would indeed be amazing, but perhaps a little unrealistic to hope for.

 

The kind of person I described in a previous post - (the Gryffindor!) - can be difficult to have a relationship with. Sometimes they get so caught up in their interests and activities that they're inclined to neglect the needs of their significant other. Not always nice, but provided those interests and activities aren't focused on another woman it's something I can handle.

 

If a guy isn't calling because he's wrapped up in work, sport, other friends, a book he's reading, a creative activity he's absorbed in... I can relate, even if I'm not ecstatic about being ignored. I can also be guilty of getting absorbed in things to an extent that I sometimes neglect people close to me. Not something I'm proud of, but time does have a tendency to zoom by when you're 100% focused on an activity. It's something that people who have a tendency to "lose themselves" in activities have to watch out for in relationships.

 

This kind of ties into the "keep her interested by being less of a nice guy" strategy. To me, that's just good old neediness getting channelled into a different direction. A new way of winning that longed for validation. If it must be a choice between the two (and given my own failings, I think it must) I'd rather be with Mr Less Than Nice who sometimes genuinely forgets to call because events in life have taken over, than with Mr Nice who's deliberately refraining from giving me attention in an attempt to portray himself as something he's not.

[Adunaphel]

For me, some of it comes down to past professional experiences. There are situations in which you just don't want to find yourself relying on a nice but ineffectual Hufflepuff who'll find a nice safe activity to distract themselves with to justify avoiding helping you out in a risky situation.

 

Oh, that kind of guy would be a Ravenclaw.

 

That would indeed be amazing, but perhaps a little unrealistic to hope for.

 

I guess that the problem with us Slytherins is that we tend to expect too much from people, without stopping to wonder whether we have enough to offer in return. (Okay, I'm stopping talking Harry Potter. It's a promise. )

 

 

The kind of person I described in a previous post - (the Gryffindor!) - can be difficult to have a relationship with. Sometimes they get so caught up in their interests and activities that they're inclined to neglect the needs of their significant other. Not always nice, but provided those interests and activities aren't focused on another woman it's something I can handle.

 

If a guy isn't calling because he's wrapped up in work, sport, other friends, a book he's reading, a creative activity he's absorbed in... I can relate, even if I'm not ecstatic about being ignored. I can also be guilty of getting absorbed in things to an extent that I sometimes neglect people close to me. Not something I'm proud of, but time does have a tendency to zoom by when you're 100% focused on an activity. It's something that people who have a tendency to "lose themselves" in activities have to watch out for in relationships.

 

This kind of ties into the "keep her interested by being less of a nice guy" strategy. To me, that's just good old neediness getting channelled into a different direction. A new way of winning that longed for validation. If it must be a choice between the two (and given my own failings, I think it must) I'd rather be with Mr Less Than Nice who sometimes genuinely forgets to call because events in life have taken over, than with Mr Nice who's deliberately refraining from giving me attention in an attempt to portray himself as something he's not.

 

I found your post *extremely* interesting.

It really made me think.

I hope I'll manage to grow up (emotionally speaking) enough to be able to handle being in a relationship with a guy like the one you described.

I think that once I re-gain some self confidence I'd be probably able to be in a relationship with someone who might neglect some of my needs because he's busy with his work/interest, without assuming every ten minutes or so that he got bored of being with me or that there is another woman around.

 

Right now I'm in a very neddy and clingy mode, so I'd tend to prefer guys who look like they would not cheat, who look nice, and if they are clingy and jealous, the better.

there is obviously something wrong with me.

 

Thanks for posting. I'll have to check your post again, it was very insightful.

[lindya]

I guess that the problem with us Slytherins

 

You're not a Slytherin! Well, I don't know you so I can't really say.....but from your posts I can't picture you being one.

 

Right now I'm in a very needy and clingy mode, so I'd tend to prefer guys who look like they would not cheat, who look nice, and if they are clingy and jealous, the better.

 

That's sometimes just a necessary stage in the growing process. We all regress from time to time. When I'm ill, for instance, I like to comfort myself with hot chocolate and fantasy fiction (can't you tell?). Actually come to think of it, I don't need to be ill to do that.

 

there is obviously something wrong with me.

 

A symptom of the human condition.

 

Thanks for posting. I'll have to check your post again, it was very insightful

 

Thank you, but I think it might have been more a case of me rationalising my own less nice tendencies

 

Edit. Spelling!

[shoedevil]

The stroppy agitators who put themselves on the line in fighting injustice and campaigning for causes they believe in frequently fail to conform to socially prescribed norms of niceness. Often their passion and conviction means that they aren't that easy to be around, but there's a strength and substance to them that I find is all too often absent in the person whose primary motivation is to be seen as "Mr Nice".

I have heard that Type A personalities can be very difficult to be in relationships with. That can include law enforcement or military, doctors, lawyers, or politicians; anyone in extremely high stress positions. And I admire those individuals who are able to fill those functions in society. However, I would have been extremely reluctant to date such a person when I was single. Not to mention the suicide and spousal abuse rates are higher in these stressful professions (more a concern for women than men).

 

My fiance is a very emotional person; she wears her heart on her sleeve, and as a result has tended to attract guys that wanted to take advantage of her. But she's a strong person. I'm a much more patient and non-aggressive person, certainly not what women would consider the "average guy". She never considered dating guys like me before we met. At times she and I can't seem to understand where the other is coming from. But I think the relationship has had a moderating effect on both of us. I'm by no means a hardcore "nice" guy; I'm cynical on a number of issues, and I do enjoy my alone time. I don't think we're opposites, but we're more alike that we are different. You could say our compatibility factor is around 90%. But I'd never even consider cheating on her. Does that make me unattractive because, for her, there is no risky behavior and no excitement? She doesn't think so.

 

Some women prefer to date guys who "could" cheat, just to feel the ego boost that comes from "domesticating" such men. The challenge of keeping a man interested (and I'm sure men feel the pressure to keep women interested) may be exciting to some when they're young, but do they really want to be playing that game when they're in their 30's and 40's?

If it must be a choice between the two (and given my own failings, I think it must) I'd rather be with Mr Less Than Nice who sometimes genuinely forgets to call because events in life have taken over, than with Mr Nice who's deliberately refraining from giving me attention in an attempt to portray himself as something he's not.

We each have our own preferences in a mate. But if you're looking for a lifelong partner, it's good to remember that all that energy and charisma can fade with age. When I was single, mutual attraction would be the spark that got things going, but I was also looking for someone I could remain attracted to in the future, as we both aged and matured. Would I want to spend my golden years with someone who constantly had my nerves on edge, never sure what they might do next? I think opposites can attract, but I don't think they stay together in the long-run all that often.