Is it wrong to have standards?

[Pink Amulet]

You like fake breasts?

[Pink Amulet]

Sadandconfused- this is the point I was attempting to make.

[confusedgeek]

I think every guy likes breasts. Fake ones just makes breasts that much better. Can we stay on topic? I dont want to hijack a pretty good thread thats happening right now.

[whichwayisup]

I would personally want a girl who:

 

1. Had no STDs

2. Had no children

3. Was not divorced or had not lived with an ex

4. Is at least semi-attractive to me

5. No smokers

6. Not overweight!!!!

 

Ofcourse the first is a good one. Noone really wants to deal with STD's...And choosing not to date someone who has kids already isn't something you're ready for, I can understand that.

 

If you want to start off "fresh", find a virgin. That's what it sounds like you want. You can't control what someone's past is, and at age 26, chances are the women you will be meeting more than likely HAVE a past, which could include having lived with someone.

 

It's your choice not to date someone who is overweight or ugly. But, with that being said, you could miss out on a beautiful relationship. People are more than just looks and weight. As you get older you'll see that stuff doesn't count. What counts is what's inside the person you love. Looks fade, personality only gets better...

[magichands]

Right now, your focus is on what you don't want. It's a fundamental mistake, because operating from that mindset only results in you constantly seeing those things you don't want, everywhere you look. I think if you started to focus on the positive aspects of people - including these women you view as ugly - you might start to get a far better feeling for what it is that you want. What could make you happy....as opposed to only knowing what keeps you feeling miserable.

Beautifully put. It says it all, but I will keep typing... I really never understood the power of understatement.

 

You see, lostjeff, I would so like to tell you that beauty is on the inside - but that is just a rumour spread by ugly people.

 

Do you really think that the essence of a person can be captured - or even summed up - in a series of dot-points? I don't.

 

If you want experience, then start to dream a little. What is it that YOU like about yourself, lostjeff? Because I'm a little worried that your life is being lived on the same terms as your list - unidimensionally.

[whichwayisup]

You see, lostjeff, I would so like to tell you that beauty is on the inside - but that is just a rumour spread by ugly people.

 

Hey! I'm not ugly. Not at all.

 

I'm just telling the guy he shouldn't write off a woman because she may not be as good looking as he wants. Attraction is attraction and if he's turning down gals that just ugly without getting to know them, it's his loss.

[Outcast]

You have to understand that there's a difference between 'standards' and 'idealistic thinking'. You have to understand that humans are not ideal at all, and that you can write out a laundry list of 'standards' that no regular human can possibly match.

 

Part of the chore of growing up is analyzing your ideals and concepts in light of reality, fact, information and adjusting accordingly. Too many people think that 'beautiful' equates to 'kind, considerate' and all things good. Someone who has little experience of relationships may cling to those kind of unrealistic ideas for a long time. But sooner or later, you have to do the job of maturing and understand that perfect humans don't exist. And then find imperfect ones who are still very lovable

[blind_otter]

It's perfectly fine to have standards. As long as you sort of match up to those standards. IME people tend to have very warped ideas of how attractive they are. I mean, if you get hit on a lot that's probably a sign that you are generally attractive.

 

But I read the other day that only 3% of american adults rate themselves as below average in attractiveness.

[stoopid_guy]

But I read the other day that only 3% of american adults rate themselves as below average in attractiveness.

That's actually believable, "Attractiveness" is such a subjective term. I'd bet that 97% (or more) of the people could find someone who finds them more attractive than average. (And optimism is attractive.)

[Outcast]

Heck, some women find Steven Tyler attractive! Just shows to go that everybody can find a fan.

[MarcoInaros]

So speaks a guy who has lived

 

LostJeff - you've posted stuff about this standards list before, and you always get flamed for it.

 

The basic flavour that comes across from this post and others is that you don't regard the whole process of meeting and getting involved with women as something that could possibly be fun. In fact, you make it sound like a miserable, sordid task that involves sifting through all sorts of undesirables as you search for the woman who won't make you feel physically sick.

 

Can you see why that approach would be off-putting? I can totally understand that you wouldn't want to date someone who is going to pass some sort of STD onto you...but it's hard not to make assumptions about you based on other things on the list. The rule against a partner having lived with an ex boyfriend, for instance. Why would you need that rule? What are you afraid will happen if you break that rule...and all the others on your list?

 

Right now, your focus is on what you don't want. It's a fundamental mistake, because operating from that mindset only results in you constantly seeing those things you don't want, everywhere you look. I think if you started to focus on the positive aspects of people - including these women you view as ugly - you might start to get a far better feeling for what it is that you want. What could make you happy....as opposed to only knowing what keeps you feeling miserable.

 

I have friends who are girls, but trying to start a romantic relationship with a girl is a harrowing, mind-racking process. It is not fun. I have rarely had fun with a girl and most of them do not seem to want to have fun with me. I have never done anything to them either, so their retribution and ostracization of me seems comepletely irrrational.

 

But girls are not rational creatures. They operate on feelings, pure visceral feelings. For instance, I never said that I called a girl ugly in real life, but all the girls on this board start to scream that I am shallow and horrible to even suggest that some members of their gender are less than physically attractive. Comeplete non sequitor. Women can dish it out but they can't take it. I think I am losing respect and interest in the opposite sex day by day. Maybe singledom is the most viable, rewarding outcome.

 

For god sakes, I meet all the criteria that I set in the origional post! Why is it wrong to expect the same? I don't think my list is too restrictive. And I am willing to give a little leeway on a case by case basis. I don't care if shes a virgin or not. I do look at the individual, but since I meet the above standards, then why should I stoop to a lower level? I don't want an std. I don't want to take care of someone elses kid, scince a girl didnt have the foresight to use protection or married a loser. I don't want a girl whos going to die from lung cancer. I don't want a fat slob who won't go mountain biking or hiking with me. Maybe my list isn't the problem... maybe I just haven't found anyone who takes care of themselves as much as I do.

 

I've seen lots of guys who have girlfriends or wives who met the standards above. Where are they? Obviously not on this board.

[magichands]

Maybe you need to upgrade that black-and-white outlook of yours to colour? I'm just saying. (With apologies to b_o.)

[Kittiecat]

Of course it isn't wrong to have standards, but you can't let yourself be completely dictated by them. What if you met an amazing, wonderful woman that met most of your criteria but happened to have a child? Or maybe she made a mistake, slept with the wrong man and got an STD? Nobody is perfect.

 

And as for aesthetics, you can't really help that, you're either physically attracted to someone or you're not. But I'll tell ya, personality is a funny thing. Sometimes people who aren't stunning are just so damn charismatic and fun to be around, and then the importance of their looks suddenly takes a backseat. I've experienced this first hand!

[Yamaha]

Why do YOU think you are not attracting the girls you want in a relationship?

 

Do YOU think your standards are to high?

[lindya]

But girls are not rational creatures. They operate on feelings, pure visceral feelings. For instance, I never said that I called a girl ugly in real life, but all the girls on this board start to scream that I am shallow and horrible to even suggest that some members of their gender are less than physically attractive.

 

But remember that what you say on the board is all that people have to go on. You presented a list of what you don't want, and it's hard to assess someone's positive qualities when they present lists like that. It's easier to help people discover their attractive qualities when you ask them about those things they actually like/enjoy. Nobody sounds at their best when they're listing things they don't like about others, and that's probably why you got the negative response you did.

 

Comeplete non sequitor. Women can dish it out but they can't take it. I think I am losing respect and interest in the opposite sex day by day. Maybe singledom is the most viable, rewarding outcome.

 

I think that as long as you're feeling that way, it probably is. What would be the positive outcome of you losing respect and interest in the opposite sex? What would be the drawbacks?

 

For god sakes, I meet all the criteria that I set in the origional post! Why is it wrong to expect the same? I don't think my list is too restrictive.

 

It's less a case of the list being restrictive, more just the nature of it. Let's play with the wording a bit.

 

1. Had no STDs

2. Had no children

3. Was not divorced or had not lived with an ex

4. Is at least semi-attractive to me

5. No smokers

6. Not overweight!!!!

 

Okay. Take 1, 5 and 6. How about replacing them with:

 

1. Has a healthy lifestyle.

 

Now, 2 and 3

 

2. Similar relationship experience to you.

 

3. Attractive....well, I guess that's the main thing you need to define a bit more. What would you consider attractive? Some people go for smiley faces, others go for the sultry pouting look. Scientific studies suggest that symmetrical faces are the most beautiful, but in practice people are often rendered more appealing by slight flaws that add interest to their faces.

 

And I am willing to give a little leeway on a case by case basis. I don't care if shes a virgin or not. I do look at the individual, but since I meet the above standards, then why should I stoop to a lower level?

 

Here's one of the difficulties with that thinking. Most people who have a fairly wide social circle will have some friends/acquaintances who fall into the category you're talking about "stooping" to. So you might meet a girl who's slim and attractive, but if she hears you making hard judgements about obese single mothers, she might think of a friend/colleague of hers who falls into that category. People get protective about their friends. Say, for instance, someone makes negative comments about black people in front of me. I'm not black, but I have friends who are - so indirectly I'm going to feel insulted by that comment.

 

This is the problem with negative judgements. You can insult far more people than you realise by making them.

 

I don't want an std. I don't want to take care of someone elses kid, scince a girl didnt have the foresight to use protection or married a loser. I don't want a girl whos going to die from lung cancer. I don't want a fat slob who won't go mountain biking or hiking with me. Maybe my list isn't the problem... maybe I just haven't found anyone who takes care of themselves as much as I do.

 

Again, you're framing all this in a really off-putting way. I think if you said you wanted a smart, responsible girl who enjoys the same activities as you - eg mountain biking and hiking, that would just sound so much more attractive.

 

Even if you're not going out there and saying things in as harsh a way as you're saying them here, you're evidently thinking them...and honestly, women are fine-tuned to that kind of thing. Positive thinking is incredibly important. It shows in a person's tone, body language and knee-jerk responses. Even if you're not saying all this negative stuff out loud, I almost guarantee that you're giving away your thoughts in all sorts of little ways you don't realise. Hence the importance of learning to reframe in a more positive way.

 

I've seen lots of guys who have girlfriends or wives who met the standards above. Where are they? Obviously not on this board.

 

The guys or the women? I think you're lashing out because you're not happy about the comments you've received here....but I'm not certain how much good that does you.

[whichwayisup]

The thing is, you're happy with you but obviously you're giving off a certain energy that isn't attracting women. Maybe over-confidence or even abit of desparation? Women can sense these things and honestly, it can make them turn the other way...

 

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with you, but if you're not having much luck, look at how are you when it comes to actually interacting with women.

[norajane]

I have friends who are girls, but trying to start a romantic relationship with a girl is a harrowing, mind-racking process. It is not fun. I have rarely had fun with a girl and most of them do not seem to want to have fun with me.

 

Maybe you could ask these friends of yours why girls don't have fun with you, or what might be putting them off from dating you.

 

Do you have fun with anyone? Do you have guy friends? Are they able to date and have fun with girls? What is different about you from those guys?

[SadandConfusedWA]

I've seen lots of guys who have girlfriends or wives who met the standards above. Where are they? Obviously not on this board.

 

Don't assume anything. I would fit into all your little criteria but would never go out with you because your negative attitude is a complete turn off. Also I would suggest that girls that are "at least semi attractive" don't find you attractive - or you wouldn't still be single. Perhaps take a deifnition of semi attractive down a notch and concetrate more on girl's personalities.

[lovestruck234]

To answer the question of your title...no, it's not wrong to have standards, but it is wrong to be shallow.

 

I think these definitley get mixed up. I have standards, sure, but if that guy doesn't meet ALL of my standards, I don't have any quams over it. That would mean you have found the perfect guy, and that doesn't happen too often.... (well, maybe in my case, but I am just lucky to have my bf!! )

 

Anyway, Standards:yes Shallowness:no. I have a certain type of guy I go for. Typical blokey bloke, whacks on a shirt, jeans and cowboy boots and looks HOT, and someone who rides bulls and dirt bikes....ok, that's just my bf. Lol a guy who cracks me up till I have to race to the toilet and a caring loving guy who would drop anyone who hurt me. That's all I want in a guy. Ideally, yes if you want to go down to the nitty gritty stuff. (and yes, no STD's is important) but if they're there and they make you happy....stop complaining for crying out loud! All I want is someone who makes me happy, makes me laugh, and someone who wants to have incredible sex with me! But I have met alot of hot *******s. And that ******* part just takes away everything then. The personality makes up for so much, you don't got that, you don't got nothin!!

 

I think this topic is looked into too much. Nobody is perfect.

[P1xie]

 

But girls are not rational creatures. They operate on feelings, pure visceral feelings. For instance, I never said that I called a girl ugly in real life, but all the girls on this board start to scream that I am shallow and horrible to even suggest that some members of their gender are less than physically attractive. Comeplete non sequitor. Women can dish it out but they can't take it. I think I am losing respect and interest in the opposite sex day by day. Maybe singledom is the most viable, rewarding outcome.

Your right you never did say that but you did say they made you sick, like you were too good to have your idea of ugly actually try to make an advance to you. How dare her.

 

Get real beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I may look at you as good looking or you may make me sick. I'm just using your terminology here.

 

I'm the first to admit that you have to have a physical attraction. The other stuff comes later and is what holds you together. Obviously you aren't going to approach a someone you are interested in if you are not attracted to them.

 

Your standards are not unreasonable but your attitude from your posts are.

[SoleMate]

I have rarely had fun with a girl and most of them do not seem to want to have fun with me...their retribution and ostracization of me seems comepletely irrrational...girls are not rational creatures. They operate on feelings, pure visceral feelings...all the girls on this board start to scream that I am shallow and horrible to even suggest that some members of their gender are less than physically attractive. Complete non sequitur. Women can dish it out but they can't take it...I am losing respect and interest in the opposite sex day by day. Maybe singledom is the most viable, rewarding outcome...

 

Hey lostjeff, I truly do sympathize with your loneliness and feelings of rejection. I believe most other posters on this thread feel similarly. No one has used the words "horrible" or "shallow" to describe you. Much less have they "screamed" such words...unless your PC has a voice synthesizer and you have the volume set to "HIGH". Such statements on your part are irrational.

 

Although the tone of the replies has been varied, most people have given you good advice about both adjusting your "standards" and evaluating your own attractiveness objectively. This advice is really the most rational response. However, it is not very caring, and I believe your feelings have been hurt by it. Your defensive reaction shows that.

 

Look at your words above, and imagine them translated as if coming from a woman's mouth. "I rarely have fun with a man...Men are irrational...they scream...they dish it out but can't take it..." Doesn't really make you want to get to know her, does it?

 

I do not apply double standards, and I do acknowledge the importance of physical attraction in sparking and maintaining an intimate relationship.

 

I would say if over 50% of the women you see/meet are eying you with interest then you can consider yourself above average but if only the ugly ones are interested then you do the math.

 

Perhaps you can provide us women with an example of how you really can take what we're dishing out.

 

The ironic thing about this thread is that many women (and some men) have taken time to provide sincere, constructive advice to you. In many cases, the things we're saying are exactly what all those "irrational, unfun, rejecting and ostracizing" women are THINKING. We're giving you a window into the world you so desparately want to visit. And you reject our advice because it just hurts too bad.

 

Your cover story of "not being in a relationship because I am a man with standards" is just that - a coverup. How about, "I am not in a r/s because I have not learned how to relate to women. I specifically must maintain a defensive, hostile posture around women because they scare the h*ll out of me." That's much closer to the truth. When you finally admit that, at least to yourself, you will be able to take the next step and make it a productive one.

[burning 4 revenge]

It's perfectly fine to have standards. As long as you sort of match up to those standards. IME people tend to have very warped ideas of how attractive they are. I mean, if you get hit on a lot that's probably a sign that you are generally attractive.

 

But I read the other day that only 3% of american adults rate themselves as below average in attractiveness.

am i attractive?

[Touche]

am i attractive?

 

You're gorgeous Burning. Not sure about that shade of lipstick though.

[burning 4 revenge]

You're gorgeous Burning. Not sure about that shade of lipstick though.

you should recognize it, i took it from your bathroom this morning

[whichwayisup]

you should recognize it, i took it from your bathroom this morning

 

That's funny!