Jonesgirly and their FIRST MC appt!

[jonesgirly]

First MC appt last night.

 

I was a freaking nervous wreck. I cannot believe I've become some sort of mousy little meek wife. Honest to god - if you knew me, you'd never ever expect that.

 

My H has become such an outwardly angry man, that I no longer want to be with him in public. Everyone in my family, all friends, and pretty much anyone who knows both of us wonders........what ta hell am I doing here?

 

The counselor was great......I have no idea why. She called him on his defensiveness almost immediately. He has the absolute crappiest body language of anyone I've EVER known. She had the nads to ask him "You don't want to be here do you?". Of course, he said "yes, I do." To which she replied "well, your facial expression and body language are telling me that you're not real happy about being here."

 

And this is how he has walked into our home every single night for um... ..forever. He's never listened to 'me'......I would tell him that he walks in with a 'black cloud' over him. He never says "hello", never says ANYTHING.... just I guess, waits for everyone to rush up to him and cheer that he walked through the door. It had gotten so bad that any kid home would run and hide when he pulled in, and I found myself running down to "my place" too. Sad.

 

But the most significant thing she did for 'me', was to point out how he NEVER listens to me, and turns 'everything' around to HIM. She must've said the word 'narcissitic' twenty times. He becomes defensive almost immediately, and never 'hears' what I say.

 

So, of course, I pick up on the narcissitic thing........I know someone mentioned it to me before. And it truly fits.

 

EVERYTHING........the childhood abuse, the lack of attachment, the lack of empathy, the lack of responsibility for ANYTHING (anything his kids did wrong was because of his ex).

 

Most notably.....the need for unending adoration. Also...the bull**** and boasting of 'themselves'. My H has always been very boastful..."I know how to motivate people", "I know how to make a great team", "I know everything in the universe", etc. (the last thing - the only thing he hasn't actually said).

 

His need for 'attention' and sympathy..its endless! He posts on those "feel good" websites saying that I am controlling, a bitch, etc., and that I 'perceived' he had an affair (apparently, he didn't?).... Looks for sympathy for his situation......that is, until someone points out the obvious flaws in his story. He doesn't even respond to those posts!

 

She (the MC) was genuinely shocked at what a sonofabitch he was - she even told him that I had 'mentioned' his crappy body language and that she thought maybe I was 'crazy', but now TOTALLY understood! I should add that I just HAD to pipe in that this was him on his 'best behavior'.

 

She also mentioned the sarcasm in his voice in virtually every single response or explanation he gave. I had never considered it 'sarcasm', but knew it was always MEAN. The rolling of the eyes, the heavy 'sighs' (as if he wants to say 'oh here we go again'), all the things I could never really put into words........she said. And I feel so very validated. I'm not the freak he'd like me to believe!

 

She brought up the fact that she had recommended to him that he read certain books. Of course, he hadn't. She caught that, but didn't rag on him too much.

 

But to me, it meant a lot. He didn't even make the effort to read the material his counselor had recommended! How important WAS repairing 'us'?

 

One point she made to him, and I think he totally missed, was that he should've been 'honest' when he had originally started IC with her at the end of last year. I do not know what he told her, but she said he should've said that HE was angry, that HE screwed up and was angry at himself. I can only imagine that he probably told her that his WIFE was angry and, the usual, 'wouldn't get over it.' I had given her copies of the police report of the 'incident' that had prompted my insistence on him getting counseling. She really seemed surprised at the time, but I didn't really give it much thought. He probably neglected to tell her the "entire" story.

 

I had pretty much demanded that he get IC for his 'anger issues' last Oct/Nov when he was arrested for Domestic Violence. I have no idea what he told her then, but I don't think she felt that he was very honest.

 

It was weird though, to hear HER ask him: What have you done to show your wife that you love her? And his reply? "Well, I sometimes make her coffee in the morning, and I turn on the lights that she likes to have on." She says, "and this is how your wife is supposed to feel loved by you?" Of course he really had no reply.

 

At this point, I couldn't help being myself and HAD to raise my hand I just HAD to put in there that "I" prepare and set the coffee EVERYDAY when I get home for work, and it auto percs every morning. I said that his "getting my coffee" entails.........A) getting a coffee mug out of the cupboard and setting it in front of the coffee maker. I wanted to laugh (and I think I did), at the absurdity of his statement. I know, I know, its how HE shows that he cares, and I should appreciate that I don't have to risk bumping my head by opening the cupboard door myself, but REALLY!!

 

I wish she had asked him "How have you shown your wife that you DON'T really care about her?" He probably could've rambled on for hours.

 

All in all, it went pretty well. He's been reading the books she had recommended LAST YEAR, and seems to be trying to make an effort to be nice. I am open minded, yet have a nagging voice inside that is screaming at me: "narcissitc personality."

 

At the very minimum, he has narcissitic tendencies. Even HE will admit that his affair with his young co-worker continued because she "listened to him, and took his advice." There are so many other things that fit to a "T" that I am really kind of worried.

 

One of the things I've learned about spouses of Narcisstics.........they truly 'appear' to be everything you ever wanted in a spouse (at first). They suck you in, and become that 'knight in shining armor' you've always wanted. Its all an illusion. They make you feel special, that your relationship is 'unique', that they've ALWAYS wanted JUST you.

 

The problem for the "ME" is that when it becomes apparent that all of it is just an 'illusion', we cannot forget the 'specialness' we felt when first were with this person.

 

We almost become the narcissit ourselves - looking for the admiration and adoration, the feeling that we are, indeed, 'unique', from the very person that apparently gives it to EVERYONE they encounter. It creates a double-edged sword that is extraordinarly self-destructive.

 

And the really bad thing? I couldn't possibly confront my husband with my suspicions. Just that fact that I KNOW he's 'less-than-perfect' is enough for his frustration. It doesn't matter what he's done and how he's behaved..........that fact that he is seen as 'less-than-perfect' eats him alive. That will truly be our undoing.

 

I would imagine there is a lot of narcissim involved with infidelity. Especially those couples where the WS seems to struggle with expressing genuine remorse, while lacking the ability to have ANY sort of personal responsibility. Ah... the sins of our fathers........

[whichwayisup]

Holy cow, sorry, the coffee thing has me laughing! I think if that was me sitting there listening, I would have really laughed outloud for real! Those two things he said - Wow. He is for real??

 

Yup, he definately sounds like he has narcissistic traits. Question is, can you live with that? Him always being number ONE. Everything else, you and the kids coming second.

 

My friends husband is a classic N. Infact, recently he told a mutual friend of ours that my friend banged up the car. IT ruined HIS day. He was more worried about the car than he was her. He didn't seem upset that she had to spend the night in a hospital as she hit her head. WTF.

 

I just hope he really makes an effort to make it work. If he doesn't, it's his loss.

[jonesgirly]

Oh jeez, WWIU......I can laugh outloud right now when I think of his comment. And I really DID, literally, raise my hand and add in my comments that "I" actually make the coffee, he "sets" my cup out! And, I should add, thats only when he's not pissed at me - maybe 2 out of 5 days a week. How pathetic is that .......... thats pretty much "it" as far as he could come up with showing how much he 'cares' for his wife.

 

But I did (as I was SERIOUSLY LAUGHING OUTLOUD), express that I understood that this was HIS way of showing that he cared.

 

I just wish I had more of a 'generalized' sense of humor to this whole thing

 

I'm glad to have brought you a laugh. It did the same for me.

[jonesgirly]

Living with a narcisstic personality.....

 

A never ending battle.

 

I feel bad for him, and the caretaker in 'me' wants to fix it. The sadness sets in when I realize I can't. The depression sets in when I realize that I can't even speak to him about the situation. True narcissitic personalities rarely even acknowledge that their behavior could result in hurting another person - the feelings of THAT person just don't matter.

 

It WILL be truly his loss - anyone else would've cut their losses and ran screaming into the jungle a long time ago. I know that there is pain inside of him.....but never fear.........I am NOT wiling to sacrifice "myself" for him.

 

I think that's why I'm here, and I think thats why I'm sad. To realize all of this in just one day..it makes sense, but iits clarity I was NOT hoping for!

[whichwayisup]

I'm glad to have brought you a laugh. It did the same for me.

And I'm sorry I freaked you out on that other thread...I had NO idea what that meant......Oh yeah, I feel like a fool now. Kinda funny though...In a sick way...

[whichwayisup]

Living with a narcisstic personality.....

 

A never ending battle.

 

I feel bad for him, and the caretaker in 'me' wants to fix it. The sadness sets in when I realize I can't. The depression sets in when I realize that I can't even speak to him about the situation. True narcissitic personalities rarely even acknowledge that their behavior could result in hurting another person - the feelings of THAT person just don't matter.

 

It WILL be truly his loss - anyone else would've cut their losses and ran screaming into the jungle a long time ago. I know that there is pain inside of him.....but never fear.........I am NOT wiling to sacrifice "myself" for him.

 

I think that's why I'm here, and I think thats why I'm sad. To realize all of this in just one day..it makes sense, but iits clarity I was NOT hoping for!

 

I feel for you on that one. I know afew friends involved with N's. And we have a male friend who is an N too.

 

They definately are oddballs. Loveable at times, and then comes the 180. It's still a personality disorder, though try to tell an N that they are one! They don't see it in themselves, and if they do, nothing changes.

 

Your hubby may not BE a full on N, but he has traits. Has he been dignosed?

[Blind Illusion]

I was reading your whole post, thinking all the time that this is my husband, described to the letter. Only when the counselor asked what have you done to show your wife you love her, he would twist it around to list all the things *I* don't do either. It's always about him and he forever blames me for things.

 

I thought my husband was the only one that came in the door and said nothing. I started not even acknowledging then, that he came in. Of course now "I am treating him like a second class citizen"

 

Anyhow, I am glad for you that you went there. It's good to have someone else see things that you knew in your heart, weren't right.

[jonesgirly]

WWIU...I got a chuckle out your reference to the "snuff" films (although a kind of 'creepy' chuckle). I think you should be proud that you weren't aware of such terminology..all of us who 'caught' it should be embarrassed!

 

My H hasn't been diagnosed as anything (other than difficult by those who love him), but has started and quit counseling numerous times. He stated several times that he quit because they 'didn't care' about him. I would imagine that he would stop going as soon as the counselor offered any sort of constructive criticism. He has an intense need to be seen as 'perfect', above reproach, and is extremely judgemental of others.

 

His lack of empathy is the most noticeable 'feature' of my husband. He "says" that he feels bad (at times) for others, but really has no way of expressing it. He would be the LAST person to comfort a crying child, compliment an awkward teenager, or make others comfortable in his presence. He simply cannot do it. He recently told me that he thought I was "phony" because I do NOT carry our turbulent relationship into the public realm, especially in front of the kids, family or friends. We have all gotten used to him stomping around the house, not speaking to anyone, and if spoken to, replying in short, one syllabul responses. Its truly pathetic. But I refuse to make other people uncomfortable by being an ASS in front of them.

 

It has gotten much worse in the last year, due to the dissipation of the "Magnificent Husband" costume. He knows that I know he's not perfect. And it probably eats him up....his wife who adored, respected, and admired all the things he wanted me to, no longer feels that he is 'special.'

 

The beginning of our relationship was textbook cerebral narcissism. He said ALL the right things, I was appropriately impressed, and began to genuinely respect this person whom I first knew when I was a teenager. His (now seemingly) outrageous claims that he "always knew we'd be together", and that he has "always thought about me", now seem like the little-girl fairy tale come true (that they really are).

 

There are so many grandiose 'tales' that he's told me its almost unreal. He remembers the first time he sneezed as an infant, he is a constant lucid dreamer, he has an uncanny perception of people, he's met and spoke with a variety of celebrities when he was in california and florida, and on and on and on. Oh, and he also "knows" that he's going to win the lotto!

 

When I think about that first year we were together, I must've been a dream come true for him. I had just come out of a horribly ugly marriage, had little or no self-esteem, and was star-struck by his worldliness, strength, intelligence and integrity. I believed every word he told me, and listened and complimented him constantly.

 

Of course we were meant to be together - I was the classic 'feed' for him!

 

According to him, his previous marriage was horrible, his wife cheated on him constantly, and she conspired with his boys against him. Now, there is a grain of truth to that, as I personally witnessed her kidnapping his son a couple of years ago and flying him to florida behind our backs (while we were at work). However, I can just IMAGINE how difficult it was for the household to live with him. He had a fairly normal relationship with his sons when they were younger (and adored him), but as they grew older, their interactions deteriorated. He readily admits he has no pride in his kids, but takes absolutely no responsibility for 'creating' those kids. He STILL cannot understand how he could've had ANY influence whatsoever in their upbringing, given that his ex-wife was such a horrible person. "She" is the one who created them.

 

He becomes irate when my daughter (his stepdaughter) speaks of the difficult relationship she has had with HER father. He cannot understand why she continues to "try" with him, even though HE (my H) has 'given' her everything she wanted. Yeah, thats messed up thinking, and I've TRIED to tell him to STOP speaking poorly of her father TO her! He has no idea how damaging that is, and how much respect HE loses from all of us when he continues.

 

A typical comment from him (regarding my daughter and her father) would be: "well maybe she should just have HIM look at her car instead of me" (my H was a master mechanic for twenty years). Seriously deranged and damaging.

 

Just last week she asked him to check out a noise or light or something on her car (she asked very nicely and meekly). His response? "I GUESS I will, after all WHO ELSE will?"

 

But remember, she too, knows that he is no longer 'perfect' and HE knows that she's aware of his 'shortcomings'. And he's not happy about it at all.

 

He has always been very intelligent, and prides himself in knowing everything about everything. In fact, he spends most of his waking hours online (at work and at home), apparently 'learning' everything out there. Oh, and of course, he was online or whatever before the WWW was even available to all of us 'regular people.'

 

I was (and still am) always impressed by his bank of knowledge. I could email him at work to get the answer to ANY question someone asked. Music, movies, theatre, TV, history, mythology, whatever - he would have the answer. I just never realized that the obsessive need to 'know' these things fueled the requirement to be known as "all-intelligent."

 

And of course he deserves to own whatever it is he happens to 'want.' Regardless of his financial situation, he will ALWAYS purchase WHATEVER he wants. He doesn't get into trouble spending money on gifts or things for others, its ALWAYS stuff for HIM. I remember last year, right after being busted for having a girlfriend, he goes out and purchases a wireless, handheld PC (HP IPaq)!!!! No concern for how that would look to me (they had a LOT of email contact) !!!

 

I used to make excuses for his behavior. I used to explain it. NOW, I feel like I can 'understand' it. He would walk in the house each evening and not say a SINGLE word to any of his kids, me or my kid! Not a hello, not a god I hate your guts, nothing. Night after night. Do you have any idea how it must feel to be one of his kids? My god, not one of them feel like their dad even LIKES them! And not ONE of them feel anything other than coldness from him.

 

The "caretaker" in me tried for so long (6 years so far) to get him to have a loving relationship with his kids. To actually TALK with his kids, to LISTEN to them, to NOT USE THE "F" word when yelling at them, etc.

 

Whats sad is that I could've also thrown 'myself' in there too - he treats me the same way. Any time I've expressed anger at what he's done - I'm "belittling" him and he can only take so much. I did ask him how he thought "I" might feel after uncovering his affair, but you know, he never really got that connection.............

[Mz. Pixie]

I think I mentioned originally that he sounded like he had narcassistic borderline personality disorder.

 

I saw alot of my mom's traits in him.

 

But if the counselor says he's a N- then he probably is.

 

Get's your coffee huh?? What a jewel.

[whichwayisup]

I did ask him how he thought "I" might feel after uncovering his affair, but you know, he never really got that connection.............

 

That's because N's are not capable of empathy or any kind of sympathy for anybody but themselves. It's ALL about them and how THEY feel.

 

I feel for ya on this one. Actually, I remember afew threads about N's here on LS. Do a site search and I'm sure those threads will come up. I think it will help you.

[jonesgirly]

Mz. P....I thought someone had mentioned it here before! Yeah, the counselor mentioned it about thirty times.. basically everytime he answered a question with how it affected 'him.'

 

Oh, and he's a real jewel (at least HE thinks so). But here's the weird thing, he's been really, really nice since the MC appt last Thursday evening.

 

He cooked me breakfast yesterday morning, and has been coming over to my place (the lower level apartment) to sit around and watch tv more often.

 

Of course my radar is up, but I did remember something from the MC appointment. When we left, she told us to "go have some fun you two!!....Pretend its your last day on earth!".

 

Now, MY reply was "lets go max out the credit cards!". My H didn't say anything, but I truely believe that he thinks that all "slates" are wiped clean at this point. I'm not exactly sure WHAT she meant by her statement, but I apparently didn't take it the same way he did. I'm almost certain that he thinks we're now back to "zero" and the past year has been deleted from my mind.

 

And of course he would be pleased to believe that!

 

But I didn't really take it that way. I took it more as a "lighten" up a bit, go have fun once in a while, etc. And I'm all good with that, I just don't think that things are 'erased' like he apparently does.

 

I thought it was kinda creepy this weekend with him all being nice and stuff. I remain detached, and don't intend on doing anything that would risk my sanity at this point.

 

I hope she isn't one of those counselors that think that couples should just "start over", because thats nearly impossible given the situation we're in. She DID mention one time, when I saw her alone a few weeks ago, that she felt that spouses who have affairs AND ARE NOT CAUGHT, should NOT confess to their SO. Now, of course I said, BULL...., I don't think thats fair to the other person. Shouldn't each of us get the chance to make an informed choice? What if someday it comes out anyway? She said that confessions to an unaware spouse can make things worse (I guess that ignorance is bliss?), BUT that if a one is confronted with evidence of an affair, they should 'come clean' immediately.

 

Of course, he didn't do that!

 

 

She told us that she will be seeing us one more time, then referring us to a specialist in "IMAGO therapy." Anyone with any experience there?

 

I am concerned because of the N-tendencies of my H. Maybe this IMAGO thing will allow him to more clearly communicate his superiority.

 

WWIU....Yep, I pretty much know about the lack of empathy (been living it for a while now). I've done a lot of reading around the web on Narcissism...the more I know, the worse it gets. There are no drugs used in treatment (except for maybe valium for the spouse ), and therapy is rarely successful due to the nature of the disorder. Its tough to treat someone for something when they're perfect! From what I've learned, it usually takes some sort of MAJOR threat (i.e., Divorce), for them to even be agreeable to therapy. And remember, my H quits counseling whenever he feels that they "don't care" about him.

[whichwayisup]

here are no drugs used in treatment (except for maybe valium for the spouse ),

 

Or a baseball bat! LOL! I'm just kidding...

 

He's being nice cuz he has to be, and you're doing the right thing by not letting down your guard. He KNOWS what's what - Yet he just isn't going to admit that to you - So, he's laying low and 'acting' good.

 

I hope she isn't one of those counselors that think that couples should just "start over", because thats nearly impossible given the situation we're in. She DID mention one time, when I saw her alone a few weeks ago, that she felt that spouses who have affairs AND ARE NOT CAUGHT, should NOT confess to their SO. Now, of course I said, BULL...., I don't think thats fair to the other person. Shouldn't each of us get the chance to make an informed choice? What if someday it comes out anyway? She said that confessions to an unaware spouse can make things worse (I guess that ignorance is bliss?), BUT that if a one is confronted with evidence of an affair, they should 'come clean' immediately.

 

Yeah, so you know he's had the affair, yet he won't own up to it, life should go on like nothing ever happened...That's living a lie! Not only for him, but for you as well. Like trust is ever going to come back, when you "know" what happened. Pretending all is OK may be fine for a little while, but it won't last long before resentment and anger sets in. That T has an odd way of thinking. UNLESS she meant, if the person didn't have a clue...But, you do have a clue. He knows this too, which is why he's on his best behaviour.

[jonesgirly]

Or a baseball bat! LOL! I'm just kidding...

 

He's being nice cuz he has to be, and you're doing the right thing by not letting down your guard. He KNOWS what's what - Yet he just isn't going to admit that to you - So, he's laying low and 'acting' good.

:lmao: :lmao:

 

And I think you hit the nail on the head - he's being nice cuz he 'has' to be, and also because we go back to the MC on the 15th (and I'm sure he'd LOVE for me to report that he's been sooo very nice).

 

It just feels like a hollow 'nice.' Its like the elephant is still in the living room, but now we 'smile' as we walk around it

 

Its like living with your favorite waiter/waitress - always pleasant, just not a lot of 'depth' to it.

 

And ANOTHER WTF - Why NOW is he so pleasant and nice to everyone - why not for the last year? Why hasn't he tried to be "NICE" to all of us before NOW?

 

And it DOES feel like we're living a lie - we haven't really DEALT with any issues, but damn, if today were the last day on earth for both of us, we'd go out smiling!

 

I would imagine that if I dared to mention one thing about 'trust' or whatever, he would instantaneously lose the 'nice guy' act and go into his true barbarion self.

 

WWIU...she DID mean that the 'secret' should be kept if/when the other person has NO CLUE. I'm still not sure I buy that, but it really doesn't apply to our situation anyway. It just makes me wonder how she may feel about things like taking responsbility for screwing up, etc. I'll have to wait and see.

 

And I swear-to-god, the only thing he heard in the whole TWO HOUR session was "Go home and have some fun you guys, pretend this is your last day on earth, every day."

 

I do truly believe that there is some truth to that request - I had grown weary of being upset, so its been a nice 'break'. BUT......I get the real sense that he's now totally erased everything. You're right about it building into anger and resentment - I can already tell that I'm headed that way. How convenient to be able to just delete the last year (and the year and half prior that he had a girlfriend!).

 

I look at him and think, okay, lets all pretend we just met........no crappy history, etc. And then I think, WOW do I ever see YOU in a different light! I want to run screaming from the room and try to wake myself from the nightmare

 

It doesn't matter HOW nice he is - he could be emailing female prospects for all I know, bad-mouthing his "soon-to-be-ex" as he calls me to his online chat mates, and still talking to his girlfriend! He never really changed during that time, and is always moody and dark (in addition to selfish and self-centered).

 

I see all this clearly now...I'm not looking through unconditional trust goggles. Its funny the things you overlook when you believe that the person you love, loves you back. Its sad when you realize what they threw away when they made the selfish choice to indulge their desires for another. Its humiliating to know that you excused their behavior towards others when they were making the conscious choice to disrespect you at the very same time.

 

But, the joy continues.........now that we're so nice to each other.

[whichwayisup]

Well, give it your best ... See how it goes ... If he works his ass off and shows you, not only in words but in action that he is capable of being a good husband, lover and friend to you - Then it will have been worth the effort to work the marriage out. If not, atleast you'll be able to look back and say you tried your best - wash your hands of it all and know HE was the one who is messed up, not you.

 

Yeah, I'm angry for you on this one. But, see how it goes in the next session.

 

Sooner or later he MUST own up, spill it all and take the heat. That has to happen for you both to move on. Either together or apart.

[sylviaguardian]

JG,

Glad to hear that you've finally got him to go to MC - next step is to get him to admit to having an affair, I guess!

 

You sound like you are getting stronger and stronger. Some of it sounds scarily familiar to me. I kind of got to the point where I realised that my husband will probably never change and we are talking separation/divorce now. All the stuff you said about empathy rings true. I asked my husband why he had never felt guilty about what he did and he said " I never had the time to sit down and really think about it"!!!!!! So he has someone crying in front of him every day for around 18 months and he never had the time to think about it!

 

The coffee thing made me laugh too. According to my husband, he showed me love by 'going to the corner shop' for me He also thinks that although he cheated on me for 3 years, in other respects he was pretty good to me

 

We went for an inital consultation with a counsellor and I found the notes he had written to remind himself of what he wanted to say. He had writted that he thinks he has 'done his penance' i.e. he doesn't have to read anything, change jobs or be honest - as long as enough time has gone by, the slate should be wiped clean. I just couldn't believe it.

 

All the stuff you said about needing someone to look up to him rings bells in my head too. I met him about a year after I had come out of a long-term relationship that had ended really badly. I was pretty vulnerable. His OW is a needy kind of person and he talked about how she looked up to him and admired him (which of course, I FAILED to do). He talks about how hard it is that I don't respect him. I mean WTF???? What exactly am I supposed to respect? His honesty and integrity? His prowess as a provider (he only managed to get a full-time job through the OW three years ago). He keeps telling me how my career progression has been so easy for me because I've been helped out along the way!!

 

You know, DH is away for a week and I was starting to falter this morning but the more I think about it, the more I think it is the right decision to get rid of this man. He will never change. As you said, he can't even recognise that some of his thoughts/behaviours are bizarre. He thinks the problem lies with me/the OW/everyone else.

 

Good luck with the counselling JG. I can't even be bothered to start mine.

 

Sylvia

[Anddowhat]

Was just wondering is you are married to the same man that I am?? Mine does some of the same things as yours. Trust me, I know how much it po's you. I suspect mine of cheating with a coworker of ours. Thurs was my b-day and he bought me flowers. That is the fist time for flowers in probably 12 or so yrs! What, is he feeling guilty? GL to you. Wanting mine to go to MC too.....we shall see........

[alphamale]

hey JG!

[jonesgirly]

Hey alpha!

[jonesgirly]

yeh.........here's where it gets ugly.

 

I received an email with a screenshot of his girlfriends 'sent' yahoo email folder (don't ask).

 

There were 10 emails sent out, and 7 (YES, SEVEN) of them were to my H!!!!

 

The latest was from July 20th, where the subject is "Sorry!!" Remember, she didn't show up at the luau bash this year (surprising both of us). The party was held on the 15th (of July), and I had asked my H if he'd communicated with her about her no-show status. Of course, his reply was "No." I'm not sure what the "sorry!!" was in reply to - maybe his expressed disappointment that she wasn't there.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I wasn't unhappy that she didn't show up, but I had this nagging voice saying that he knew why, or had told her not to attend.

 

WTF? Pissed is an understatement.

 

In June, if anyone is following this sad saga, he had received a visit from her and her baby (NO, its NOT HIS) at work on a Saturday. I believe it was June 10th. During the following week, there was an email EVERYDAY with the subject line: "RE: Saturday". What do you think the chances are they were discussing the visit?

 

He will never, ever get it.

 

I asked him late last night if he had emailed his g/f in July, and of course, his reply was "no." He came to my place (the lower level), when he realized something was up. I had the screenshot up on my computer, and he instantly became defensive. He stated that I was 'playing games,' to which I told him that he "is a whore."

 

I have no desire to learn the contents of those emails, at least not right now. The knowledge that he continues to lie, and simply can't seem to break himself of the "sarah" is just too much.

 

I guess I'm glad, in a way, he WASN'T doing all the 'right' things all this time. I would've never known, and proabably wouldn't have 'heard' that nagging voice. Of course, on the flip side, if he HAD been doing all those 'right' things, it probably wouldn't have included continuing his little 'thang' with the g/f.

 

Apparently, this relationship is of the utmost importance to him. I thought I was going to have a stroke when I opened the email and saw that screenshot. And the funny thing is........there was NO way he could deny they were from him - they were replys to an email address (at work of course) that he had only recently obtained.

 

I talked to the MC earlier today, and she said to not do anything drastic, and wants to confront him with the blatant truth of the situation. She agreed that narcissism is prevalent in my home (Husband). She was also upset that he has so obviously lied through everything.

 

I think she finally understood the person that she is dealing with. She was sympathetic to my plight, and told me I should just live my life as I want to, but no confrontations with H, and try to act like nothing is wrong.

 

Funny thing is, I'M FINE! I think at some gut-level, I knew there was more to his little 'tale' than I was being told. There was NOTHING he could say that would make him less guilty.

 

And after all this time......he still just can't do it.

 

I shall live my life as I want.

 

WWIU...You're right - feeling as though you've 'given it your best' is very comforting. Its difficult to know that everytime he said he was going to show me how 'special' he thinks I am, he probably was still with the g/f. I can ride the short-bus all on my own, thank you very much.

 

sylvia........your situation sucks ass too. These 'men'/people think that the world freakin revolves around their presence. They are above reproach and will use any means necessary to prove it to you. Incapable of empathizing with anyone else, they will leave you in ruins at the end of the day. Lucky are those who can recognize it, realize there is no possibility of a 'better situation', and run like hell to the nearest anywhere.

 

And its funny how they don't understand the lack of respect from us. Admire them? Ha! Adore them? I don't think so. But in the end, it really doesn't matter to them. They will find another 'feeder' for their fantasy self.

 

I, too, was in a more-than-normal vulnerable position when we first got together. His N-ten worked full-time to capture this damsel in distress. He said all the right things, did all the right stuff, and I fell for it. You'd think I'd be wiser by now (old), but all of the words were just cement for the relationship.

 

The info I've found out about N-ten just confirms my belief that things will NEVER change. I doubt that even a divorce will ring any "uh,oh..this is serious" bells.

 

Breaking apart from N's is difficult because they also feed the N within ourselves. Possibly they even create the "N" within us by making us feel so special, so adored, so paid-attention-to, at a time we really needed it in our lives. We long for the love that we 'thought' we had within this very 'special' relationship.

 

Anddowhat....sound like your H may be trying to change, unlike the N's we're talking about here. Never trust the flower-thing though - my H sent me flowers frequently while he was chasing tail! (Not to burst your bubble). I'll read your story this evening.

 

Actions speak louder than words, whether it be the 'type of' or 'lack of', its all more verifiable than what they SAY.

[sylviaguardian]

Sigh...JG, I know exactly what you mean when you say that they 'don't get it'. They really don't. Sometimes I wonder how the he!! I got into this situation because when I look back now I see all these little signs that I should have seen. You know what the funniest thing is? The first time I said to him 'I love you', he said 'That's nice' I was really upset as you can imagine and when I asked him about it later, he said "I don't like to say it just because someone else has said it. I like to say it when I feel like saying it" Why oh why didn't I just run then.....?

 

You are also on the money when you say that divorce will not wake him up. My husband is just going along with it. He says 'Well, you know it's not what I want" but at the same time he's not prepared to do anything to change things. I gave up trying a while ago. Gave it trying to make him 'get it', gave up trying to get him to tell the truth (there are so many 'grey areas' with him that I think he doesn't know the truth), gave up trying to hold onto hope that things could get better.

 

Last night I was clearing out stuff on the PC and I found a letter to a friend of his where he describes one of the perks of his job as being able to go to nightclubs and kiss students. This was way back in 1999. I mean WTF? We had a newborn baby at the time. Most men are preoccupied with being a new dad. I can't be bothered to confront him because I know he will say 'It was a joke!'. I just don't care anymore.

 

Anyway, must go and do some work. Your counsellor is right - just get on with your life. That's what I'm trying to do. It's not easy but I'd rather be lonely than live my life in fear.

 

Big hug

Sylvia

[jonesgirly]

syl...........your H also sounds like he has a bit of passive-aggression going on there too! I love the 'It was ONLY a joke!" line when every they're caught doing something inappropriate.

 

It seems that he is kind of 'blaming' you in a way too - his comment "well, you know its not what I want" definitely allows him to believe that YOU divorced him....he had absolutely NOTHING to do with the dissolution of the marriage. My H acts this way too. EVERYTHING is my fault, whether it be the 'reason' he had a girlfriend, the reason he became angry and defensive, or the reason for his seeking out women online - there's ALWAYS a reason with "my name" in it. Geez...must be great to not have to take any responsibility!

 

You sound really defeated. My daughter emailed me this morning and said that she misses the "old" me - before I was 'beaten down' by my husband. Its sad when I realize that I've changed so much, and I feel very ashamed of my marriage. I should know better by now.

 

I, too, look back and see all those little 'signs'. How the things he would say to me THEN would seem so blatantly unbelievable NOW. I'll bet I would never tolerate HALF the crap I did back then. Oh, if I knew then what I know now.......

 

There is nothing more lonely than being married to a person you don't trust. You can never really tell if they're being truthful, and at times they may not know it either! It reaches a point when you finally realize that this is no way to live, and get out!

 

On a side note....he is INCREDIBLY pissed off at me over my discovery of his emails. Isn't that just like them? Get angry at the person who uncovered your deceit....they just don't understand that defensiveness and anger are NOT the appropriate reactions!

 

Hugs to you Sylvia, I hope the light is brighter at the end of your tunnel.

[sylviaguardian]

]syl...........your H also sounds like he has a bit of passive-aggression going on there too!

 

What is passive aggression - I've never really understood that!

 

My husband DOES blame everyone else - it drives me nuts. He said that the OW 'took his job and his talents seriously' and 'supported him' (implying that I didn't). The OW initiatiated and kept the relationship going, he just did what she wanted basically. Etc Etc Etc...Basically, life is just what HAPPENS to him.

 

You sound really defeated. My daughter emailed me this morning and said that she misses the "old" me - before I was 'beaten down' by my husband. Its sad when I realize that I've changed so much, and I feel very ashamed of my marriage. I should know better by now.

 

JG, I am not defeated. On the contrary I feel like I am starting to rise up and begin steering my life again. The old me is coming back - in fact it's not the old me, I hope it's a stronger, more calm version. I went out with a girlfriend last night and we actually laughed all night about this ****! She turned to me and said "I just want you to be happy. So many people just want you to be happy". I am lucky that I have lots of friends and know that all our 'joint' friends will stick by me. I know it's going to be really tough and at the moment I have this little, cold, hard feeling inside of me. But I am forcing myself to believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I think of all the things in my life that I thought seemed so hard and I know that all it takes is gentle steady chipping and eventually even mountains crumble!

 

I, too, look back and see all those little 'signs'. How the things he would say to me THEN would seem so blatantly unbelievable NOW. I'll bet I would never tolerate HALF the crap I did back then. Oh, if I knew then what I know now.......

 

I feel this too. Next time I will avoid arrogant people like the plague! Don't feel too bad about believing the stuff he told you. It's because you are an honest person yourself so you trust what others say.

 

Keep plugging away at the MC. I feel like I did everything I could so now I can walk away knowing that there are no 'what-ifs'. I can do many things but I cannot change the way another person thinks, feels and acts. Keep strong and pm whenever you like.

 

Syl

[veronese]

Wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you and wish I had greater access to a computer to give more support to you.

 

My H. is an N. too, I posted a thread back in February when I began to suspect it! It's not a nice discovery is it? They're such a hopeless bunch in many ways but I'm glad I read up about the disorder because it explained so much.

 

Six months on we're still together, but like Sylv and yourself, I am less inclined to continue holding us together because I've accepted that if he hasn't made certain changes in the 2 and a half years since DDay, he never bloody will!

 

Anyway JG, you're a good person with a good heart and soul.

 

Keep hold of your sense of humour and know that even if I don't manage to post anything to you, I read whenever I can and have followed your story with great interest and empathy and support you all the way.

 

Fondest regards

 

veron xxx