EndoftheRope Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 I started reading the thread on closure, and the issues of closure between WS, BS, and OP. I tend to believe that my husband is telling the truth this time when he says he cut off all contact with this woman, due to differences in his behavior when he told me. He refuses to tell me any more than that. He insists, despite their long and closely-guarded friendship, involving years of deception and lies, that it is nothing more than a very casual work friendship trading updates on people they both know. (Well, the other night, it turns out, big surprise, that he also talked to her when he was upset about things, and they mutually discussed her relationships/ our marriage.) Despite promising me and the counselor to forward personal e-mails, he will not allow me to see the e-mail ending contact with her, or her reply. He won't answer any questions. He supposedly doesn't even know if he sent her a one-liner or several paragraphs telling her it's over. (He says he was upset and can't remember what he writes when he's upset.) He 'doesn't know' anything at all regarding her response, her tone, whether she was surprised, hurt, angry, accepting, who-cares, questioning, anything. He just knows nothing. I feel it would help me to know these things. It would help me understand what has gone on in my marriage and what exactly we're trying to fix. It would help me to know I'm not crazy and my instincts are not that off, but he will continue to insist it was 'nothing,' (and thus, of course, leave hanging the alternative that I'm some jealous crazy woman chasing every last friend out of the poor guy's life.) I do tend to believe he really cut off contact with her. That's a huge step forward. I want to give him credit for that and not leave him with an excuse to say, "What was the point of giving her up if it didn't help our marriage?" But I'm really, REALLY struggling with doubt, resentment, and anger, for obvious reasons. So far, the only answer I see is to continue to try to withdraw emotionally from him so this stuff doesn't hurt so much. That will leave him feeling the distance eventually and figuring he may as well go right back to his emotional affair with her or someone else. Is there any way left to help myself get closure with a spouse who won't help me?
Kathleen2260 Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 I'm not sure I can answer your question about closure because I am still trying to find that myself. But I identify with what you wrote "It would help me to know I'm not crazy and my instincts are not that off, but he will continue to insist it was 'nothing,' (and thus, of course, leave hanging the alternative that I'm some jealous crazy woman chasing every last friend out of the poor guy's life.)" This was me in my situation exactly!!! I can tell you that you are NOT crazy and that you should trust your gut instincts. 99% of the time your instincts are right. I learned this after my bf had an EA with his ex who for all the months they talked swore up adn down that she was just a friend and how dare I want him to get rid of his friends. This was over a year ago but just 3 months ago I finally found proof! I found a letter he'd written to her. He then confessed. I felt like a huge weight had been lifted because ALL of my instincts about the situation were totally 100% accurate! all the missing pieces of the puzzle fell into place and if only I'd listened to my instincts instead of his lying words I would have found out much sooner. I don't think there is ANY way to get over your husband's betrayal until he is completely honest with you. He needs to tell you everything that happened and show you the emails that he promised to. I can't tell you if you husband is still contacting this woman but I am willing to bet money that there was more going on than he has told you (not saying it was physical but they were definately more than friends) You husband is not respecting you or your feelings. Don't let him get away with that "I don't remember" syndrome. My bf did that too. It wasn't until after I found proof that he told me the rest of the story. Do some investigating on your own. If your marriage is important to your husband he needs to tell you EVERYTHING and not keep anything to himself.
Mz. Pixie Posted August 7, 2006 Posted August 7, 2006 Bottom line- If he wasn't hiding anything he wouldn't refuse to show you their e mails etc. He could either pony up the stuff I wanted to see or I'd see a divorce attorney. You know deep down there is more going on than he says. If there wasn't he wouldn't care for you looking. I'm serious- if he'd rather protect his friendship with OW than be married to you, that's a choice I'd allow him to make. In reality, there is already closure to this situation. I say this all the time, but I don't understand people who say they need closure. You've gotten closure. The closure is that he's more interested in keeping up this relationship with OW than being married to you. Don't pay attention to what's coming out of his mouth- but what his actions are.
Trimmer Posted August 7, 2006 Posted August 7, 2006 If it was truly "nothing", they why wouldn't he be open with you about it? If it was "nothing", then the consequence of showing you the Emails and discussing things with you would be that things in your marriage would get better and the stress relieved. Why would he be avoiding that? On the other hand, if he has something "more" to hide, then he would do behave exactly as you are seeing. He would hide things, refuse to discuss things, make it seem like your problem to deal with, make you think you were crazy, pretend "not to remember" things like the nature of what he wrote her..... I'm not one to say "this is definitely what he is doing" because I'm not a player in the situation, but his behaviors are generally consistent with someone who is still hiding something he doesn't want to reveal, and not with a situation that was nothing to start with that would be relieved by opening up about it. Incidentally, he "doesn't even know if he sent her a one-liner or several paragraphs telling her it's over."? Why was he so upset then, if it was nothing? Boy, the "don't remember, don't know" thing is just a classic, and it's so insulting. Ach, I'm getting mad now. Ask him to see the Email he sent then. It should still be in his outbox. Oh, he deleted it immediately? He was so out of it that he can't even remember whether he wrote one line or several paragraphs, yet he had the presence of mind to immediately delete the email from his outbox.... Why do you suppose that is? So ask to see her response then.... Oh, he deleted that too? He doesn't remember anything about her response, but again, something about it was important enough to delete immediately? Someone help me here, am I just blinded by my own indignance (having once been put through the "I don't know, I don't remember" routine by a WS), or is this all just really inconsistent behavior on his part? I don't recall from earlier posts - are you still seeing the MC, and have you brought up - in front of the MC - the issue that he committed to show you all Emails and has now completely (and I maintain, willfully) withdrawn that commitment? What did he have to say for himself on that one?
Author EndoftheRope Posted August 7, 2006 Author Posted August 7, 2006 I don't recall from earlier posts - are you still seeing the MC, and have you brought up - in front of the MC - the issue that he committed to show you all Emails and has now completely (and I maintain, willfully) withdrawn that commitment? What did he have to say for himself on that one? As to all the parts of your post I didn't quote, yes on everything. I have even asked him to have her send me the e-mails. He got angry and said I demanded he cut off contact and he has and so he will not contact her about that. No, we are no longer seeing the MC. I have pointed out to him that he promised to send me all personal e-mails from his work account and he insists that he promised to send me all personal e-mails from his family that initially went to his work account. (There's also been a little issue of him badmouthing me with his family.) I personally think this is another ridiculous story, as 1) these two women he was e-mailing were also big issues at the time we discussed this with the counselor (in April); and 2) he and I discussed, the very night before he e-mailed her cutting off contact, whether he'd promised to forward all personal e-mails or just those from his family. This, however, is his story-- that he only promised to forward family e-mails-- and he will stick to it to his final breath.
Trimmer Posted August 7, 2006 Posted August 7, 2006 Is there any way left to help myself get closure with a spouse who won't help me? Does he give any indication that he is willing to put additional effort of some kind into the marriage? Or is he just going back to status quo, square one, the "way things used to be" and we'll just forget about the untidiness? I'm no expert, but I will tell you that ignoring the elephant in the room and trying to just go back to the way things used to be, before they got all complicated, didn't work for me. Well, it worked for another 10 years and 2 kids (for whom I am unwaveringly and unconditionally grateful), but ultimately I believe it's the fact that we didn't open up and deal with it (an affair) originally that set us on the marital course that led to us splitting up eventually. So I'm not a big proponent of bottling it up and putting it away to avoid dealing with it - considering it to be just a "thing in the past." Sorry, that's not much in the way of advice - more telling you what not to do than what to do...
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