UnknowingOW Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 At the advice of another poster from another thread on the Infidelity forum this thread is started. It will probably bring out very sharp opinons as to closure on and EMA/R. Please try to be objective in your response. First let me start of by staying I believe in marriage. However, as we know, since we are on this forum, affairs spring up for a number of reasons which are not the purpose of this post. The purpose of this post is closure of the EMA/R. I am a BS and an unknowing OW. Closure is what helped me to move on. What should closure be? Contact between the WS and the OP that's it's over either in-person, e-mail, or on the phone informing the OP of the decicion to stay in the M and request NCOr complete No Contact...nothing...no response.I am a believer that any relationship needs to have closure. I don't care how it's done, but for all parties involved it needs to be done. There is no "what-ifs" left at the end. You know why it's over, you deal with the loss and then you move on. For closure to occur all parties, meaning the WS, BS, and OP need the truth. The BS needs to know the OP is completely out of their marriage. The WS needs insure NC is in place. The OP needs to walk away gracefully. At closure you state...NC...it's over. When you leave a relationship...any relationship with just NC it leaves all parties wondering what happened, or did my WS really cut off all contact with the OP. As stated on http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/no_contact.asp "Writing a No Contact letter to the OP is the best way to end the affair. The WS is the one that writes it to the OP. There really is no format to it, except that it should be written by free will by the unfaithful partner. This isn't a "goodbye lover" letter...but rather should consist of stating that you are committed back to your relationship, that the A is over for good and there will never be contact again between them. It should be short and to the point, and the WS should state how selfish the affair was and how it caused tremendous pain to the BS." I know many will not agree with this statement because the marriage is the priority. This is what NC is about. All parties know what is happening and can move on with their life.
superconductor Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 While I agree wholeheartedly with NC - especially when there's been infidelity involved, and the married couple is attempting to rebuild something - I don't agree with the need for "closure." There's really no such thing. It's self-help psychobabble which only means "getting the last word."
michaelk Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 Well, I've not been in a position to have to do this. But it seems to me that closure is important for all parties involved, and the letter would provide that sense of closure. And I don't agree that 'closure' is psychobabble. Leaving someone with a definite idea of where things stand is very different than leaving them in an ambiguous state. And this has to make a difference when it comes to dealing with the end and moving on.
HopefulOne Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 I also agree that closure isn't pyschobabble... No matter what relationship.... I was left in a similar postion and honestly if they had just told me, I would be able to deal better but the leaving it open ended it for someone else to figure out is just crap and it's hurtful, mean and cowardly. Funny I used the same word when I was sent a text message ( that it was ambigous and cryptic). I do not read minds, if you don't want to be in a relationship with someone, then just tell them, I certainly wouldn't want to be around someone who didn't want to be with me.
superconductor Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 I guess I didn't make myself clear. That's my fault - the clarity of the message is dependent upon the sender, not the receiver - so allow me a moment to re-state my thoughts on closure: In a situation like this, whereby an EA comes to an end, there is no upside to sending a letter, venting feelings or anything of the sort. Once it's over, it's over. That's not ambiguous; on the contrary, it's clarity. Ambiguity can come about, though, through trying to create some sort of vague "closure," when none really needs to exist. Strangely, even though HopefulOne disagrees with me on what closure is all about, she (or he... sorry, Hopeful, I can't tell your gender from your post) actually makes my point for me: I do not read minds, if you don't want to be in a relationship with someone, then just tell them Exactly. That's all the closure anyone needs, or should expect.
HopefulOne Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 I guess I didn't make myself clear. That's my fault - the clarity of the message is dependent upon the sender, not the receiver - so allow me a moment to re-state my thoughts on closure: In a situation like this, whereby an EA comes to an end, there is no upside to sending a letter, venting feelings or anything of the sort. Once it's over, it's over. That's not ambiguous; on the contrary, it's clarity. Ambiguity can come about, though, through trying to create some sort of vague "closure," when none really needs to exist. Strangely, even though HopefulOne disagrees with me on what closure is all about, she (or he... sorry, Hopeful, I can't tell your gender from your post) actually makes my point for me: Exactly. That's all the closure anyone needs, or should expect. Yes, it is all anyone needs or should expect... I think my point was that you should have enough respect for a person than to either just disappear or give them some open ended statement. That is cowardly, say it, mean it, do it....
silktricks Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Closure is important for people IMHO. So I'd say that closure is always best if possible. Closure also means to me a simple polite note, telephone conversation or meeting stating that the A is over. It is not dramatic nor prolonged. It is also important, though, to take into consideration the circumstances. This entire statement is going to be based on the assumption that the WS wants to stay in and fix the marriage, otherwise the whole thing is just too confusing for me to write. So please don't jump on me and say that maybe the WS will decide to leave the marriage, of course that is a possibility, just not the possibility I'm going to talk about here. In the best of all perfect worlds, of course, no one would have affairs, so the second best is that the MP decides to quit the affair and return to the BS on their own. Under these circumstances, again in my opinion, there is no excuse to not give closure. Say it's over and move on. Unfortunately, too often the end of the A is not a peaceful quiet ending - it's an explosion. The BS discovers the A and the WS (this is also getting too difficult - from now on it's W and MM - just know it could be the other way around) realizes that he really wants the W, not the OW. OK, now what does he do? Frankly, the best thing is still to contact the OW and tell her that it's over. Otherwise she's left hanging in the wind, and that's just not right. BUT, and this is huge, the W MUST be included in the decision to give that closure. How it is to be done, when and where. If (in the case of the thread that began this conversation) the circumstances of the ending of the affair proves in and of itself that the affair is over (the MM called the cops on the OW) then additional contact may actually lead on the OW, but again, that's my opinion. If the W is not part of that decision, and does not agree COMPLETELY with the circumstances of the closure given, then the MM is simply betraying the W again. Now that may not be what he's feeling, but that will definitely be what the W is feeling. So, that's my opinion. Closure, if at all possible. After closure, complete NC.
Author UnknowingOW Posted August 4, 2006 Author Posted August 4, 2006 Well stated Silk! Yes, and NC must be final. No if's and's or but's from any of the parties involved...its over. Trust is needed for everyone to move on and begin healing. The BS needs it from her WS. The OP needs it from the WS. The WS needs it to provide the BS with security that the A indeed is over. Here's a spin...what if the WS contacts the OP after NC is established? (this could be either party initiating contact) The OP has to be brutally stong and resist the WS. But that's not always the case. One would think if the WS renews contact with the OP the opens the door for the A to continue. Then they are right back where they were before D-day. What should be done in these cases where NC is established and broken? Who owes the responsibility of informing the BS? The WS who has begun contact after establishing NC (don't count on this happening)The OP who is trying to maintain NC?Or leave it alone for another D-day to occur.
silktricks Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 Well, the best thing to do is for the OW to tell the MM to take a long walk off a short pier, and let gravity do the rest.
Author UnknowingOW Posted August 4, 2006 Author Posted August 4, 2006 Well, the best thing to do is for the OW to tell the MM to take a long walk off a short pier, and let gravity do the rest. Needed that humor today! :lmao:
Guest Posted August 9, 2006 Posted August 9, 2006 I agree with everything you say.. but the feelings of the WS are paramount. Anyone who involves themselves in an EA takes there chances, and should not be surprised if they end up hurt and rejected. Unless, of course, the OW is unknowing.. this is different. This may seem harsh, but I have little symapthy for the OW who is finds herself heartbroken and alone when the EA ends and the MM stays with the W. Isnt that just what she was wishing on the unsuspecting W.. That she would be the one heartbroken and alone? The heartbroken part will be achieved, but I do think the majority of MM will try to save the marriage in the end.
only1life Posted August 9, 2006 Posted August 9, 2006 If you're in the situation, and you have the chance, don't make the mistake I made: My W of 25 years said she was sorry after cheating on me, and we decided to try and make things work. (Long story shortened!) But pertaining to closure.....She wanted closure with the other guy, and the therapist said she should have it, so she called him a couple of times, until she was OK with it. I didn't like it, but under the circumstances, I was pretty broken up, and not thinking too straight, besides, the therapist said it was necessary. Well, these calls were made while I was at work, so I don't know any of the details of them. That's where I made the mistake. So I'm trying to trust her (not at all easy, considering what she's done) and she says that they talked, and she said it was over, and they'd never contact each other again. But is that all? I'll never know. Maybe they made plans to talk again in a year, or maybe they didn't. Maybe she said she'd contact him after I "got over it" or maybe she didn't. Did he agree to NC? I don't know. OK, I'm know I'm supposed to be trying to trust her at this point, but looking back, things were pretty bad, I'll admit it, this whole affair was really tough on me, and it sure would have helped me to have been able to hear what was said. Advice from someone who's been there: go along with the closure if necessary, but make it such that all parties involved know all the details. I think the hurt spouse deserves to know. BTW, that was two years ago, and we're still together. Things are now pretty good, esp when I don't think about it. But it still hurts a lot when the reality of what happened comes to mind (all too often). I think it was Willie Nelson who sang: "Forgiving you is easy, but forgetting seems to take the longest time."
silktricks Posted August 9, 2006 Posted August 9, 2006 She wanted closure with the other guy, and the therapist said she should have it, so she called him a couple of times, until she was OK with it. I didn't like it, but under the circumstances, I was pretty broken up, and not thinking too straight, besides, the therapist said it was necessary. Well, these calls were made while I was at work, so I don't know any of the details of them. That's where I made the mistake. So I'm trying to trust her (not at all easy, considering what she's done) and she says that they talked, and she said it was over, and they'd never contact each other again. But is that all? I'll never know. Maybe they made plans to talk again in a year, or maybe they didn't. Maybe she said she'd contact him after I "got over it" or maybe she didn't. Did he agree to NC? I don't know. This is just my opinion, but there shouldn't have been any need for her to call him more than ONCE. If he kept calling her, that would have been a different story, and to be dealt with differently. (the OW in my case kept after my H, calling and e-mailing for over a year, until finally we sent another NC letter and changed our phone number and e-mail accounts.) The fact is, though, that if the A was over more than 2 years ago, the odds are really great that she really was saying goodbye and no contact. Anyway, best of luck to you. I hope you have a happy future.
queenbee930 Posted August 10, 2006 Posted August 10, 2006 There really is no point in me posting. I agree with all things said. As a BS I would have had a fit if my husband had contacted the OW without my knowledge (to me it signifies that he is still trying to hide something from me.) But I feel like its important to tell the OP that its over. No explanaitions, no excuses, or reasons need to be given. Just its over. What else is needed? They need to be informed, and they have been. Right?
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